SURVIVOR SERIES CHAT *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

Ermmmm...OK....What was that...absolutely appalling! Just sheer shock factor and no booking sense at all...Just terrible!

Mark Calaway is sat somewhere just shaking his head....gave his undefeated streak away only for the man to take to be squashed in less than a minute by a 50 yr old whose been out of the ring for over 12 years.....

Take a man who hasn't been pinned clean in two years and has spent the entirity of it squashing every big name on the roster...and have him squashed by a man who hasn't laced up his boots in over a decade...all in the name of video game sales...

I'll make sure I tune into RAW to see who the new Beast Incarnate will face next...*wait..what do you mean Goldberg isn't coming back full time and won't wrestle till Mania next?

We are either getting Goldberg vs Taker at Mania...or this has been done so HHH can take on Goldberg at Mania...get the pin and put himself/WWE over WCW once again. Say what you want about Vince but he sure knows how to stick it to anyone who dares go up against him...not only will I buy your company once ive pulled it from under you...i'll have the two biggest icons from it and have my son in law go over them on the biggest stage of all

Done with WWE's booking; im taking early (or late since I am an adult and have been for some time) retirement from watching wrestling.

I dunno. Which is worse for Lesnar, dominating Goldberg for 10-15 mins then losing, or being caught with a surprise spear and losing in 2 mins?

Feel like we've been over this before Owen, but prob best to wait and see how it plays out rather than losing your poop at the first stage

Lesnar failing a wellness test is probably the only real justification I can find for that finish.

Whilst other wrestlers can fail a wellness test and get away with just a suspension, Lesnar is a legitimate UFC star with question marks over his last fight. If he was to fail a wellness test in WWE it instantly puts question marks over his 2 year streak...

'Oh, he only beat 'Taker cause he was juiced.'

'Cena would take him if Lesnar wasn't pilled up.'

I've seen a few things saying Goldberg was injured and couldn't make a match last; which whilst i can see the arguments for that, there are easier ways to sort that. Either don't book it for this PPV or have Goldberg attacked to set up another match or a future run.

By all accounts, Goldberg has signed through to the Royal Rumble, so I don't see that his fitness has anything to do with that booking decision.

Brock Lesnar vs Goldberg
That was FREAKIN' awesome! Damn!

As someone who's gotten tired of the same Lesnar matches every few months, I welcome a change up.

The booking decision that didn't make sense to me was the cruiserweights.

Thought otherwise it was a really good ppv - the tag team elimination match was very very good

That Lesnar v Goldberg match was just ridiculous. How can you end a PPV with a match like that? What does that mean moving forward for both as Goldberg could not have come back just for that?

who cares about the streak or how the undertaker is feeling.

Are we meant to believe that at 51 years of age, and being hardly able to walk, the undertaker has real magical powers which means he cant lose at wrestlemania, despite losing at any other PPV??

the fact is Lesnar should have ended the streak because its not the 80's or 90's anymore.

As for Goldberg, yeah here is a guy who hasnt laced up his wrestling boots in 12 years, but here is also a guy that has kept himself in great shape and who is also training in MMA himself.

Goldberg beating Lesnar last night made more sense than Taker neating Lesnar at wrestlemania would have.

people moan and complain about how predictable things are, then when things are shaken up.. guess what... they moan and complain again.

If it had been the usual Lesnar match of him suplexing his opponent 18 times, getting a cut to his hand to make people the opponent had a chance and then F5ing them for the win then people would moan.

People moan.

It was a match I didn't care about beforehand, that result made me care more about where they go from here.

I suspect other people care far more about the Undertakers streak than he does

It's not a bad thing. Lets face it over the last year apart from the Orton match finish you could write down how Brock's match was going to go easily.

It's nice to see them doing something different with Brock.

But is it actually something different or is it just classic WWE panic booking?

Why would it be panic booking?

It's a vicious cycle which I see happening again and that is that no one in the company who will be their full time in next ten years has got the rub of the green that beating Lesnar would give...instead they have given it to a man whose on his final hurrah before being inducted into the hall of fame in a year or two.

It's not even as if they will now give the rub of beating Goldberg to someone young/future face because you just know that the Mania match will be with Taker/HHH or God forbid Lesnar III!

The moment they start pushing someone fresh to beating Lesnar level the crowd will turn on them.

GSC wrote:Why would it be panic booking?

All the hype and they make their biggest draw and star job to a returning veteran who hasn't wrestled in 12 years in 85 seconds. You're telling me that was planned all along?

Seems to me the only way you go down that road is if it was planned. Otherwise it's a generic Lesnar match as the safe option. Lesnar supposed to be overconfident given his dominant streak took his eye of the ball and ate a spear against one of the most dominant guys ever.

I'm just not seeing it, GSC.

If Goldberg was younger, fresher faced, maybe even the top star in another company coming in, then yeah, makes sense. But he isn't.

Lesnar wasn't booked as over confident, it was standard Lesnar fare. The Paulrus out, shouting about his client. They never engaged, never came to blows, so they didn't have Lesnar getting the upper hand.

Either Goldberg is injured/gassed and they decided to give him a send off; which is really bad booking and does nothing for either, especially given the rumours that he's signed through to the Rumble. And let's face it, if he can't, there are much better ways to give him a send off.

Or, the obvious one is Lesnar has failed a wellness or p|ssed VKM off.

Lesnar failed a drug test for an actual competitive sport and was still allowed to pummel Orton. Vince isn't going to let his biggest star lose in 2 minutes without a future payoff.

Because he never failed it under WWE contract. Whilst training for the UFC he fell under their testing policies, not WWE's.

Lesnars was actually public though in UFC. By some accounts WWE have on occasion buried some results.

Maybe this one isn't one they can sweep under the rug.

This is all doom and gloom. Perhaps there is another reason. Lesnar being ill? Injured?

Maybe they liked the romance of Goldberg being the blot on Lesnar's copybook and wanted to cement it?

I doubt they would of changed it for a Brock injury since wrestles like once every 3-4 months really.

I know Goldberg had a shoulder injury but i can't see them restricting it to that short but then again he is 50+ so expect him to wrestle for 15-20 mins after 12 years is pushing it really.

I just don't see the logic in booking a Goldberg win if I'm honest; regardless of if he is booked through to Rumble. Run the beast close, have someone cost Goldberg the win..anything down those lines but to book someone as dominant as they have Lesnar in the past two years only for him to be battered within 2 minutes is nonsensical when it's a vet who hasn't stepped into the ring in 12 years. Simple as that!

I actually could have believed it more if it was for instance Braun Strowman..a man who has feasted on little guys and one questioned whether he could do it against a legit force..to have him come out and destroy Brock in that manner would have worked. But not Goldberg...at this moment in time and with the timescale/matches you will get out of him it's shock factor booking plain and simple...screams of 'quick quick look at us for a second...sign up to our network for free to see this shock result..inflate our numbers heading into the biggest run of the year' It's shock factor booking at its highest and bar the initial 'wow' moment it does nothing for anyone long term; be it Lesnar, Goldberg, WWE and the other talent who could have scored a win over either and been pushed after.

Heck had you done it right you could of had both looking strong, have a respect between the two at the end and then push both into seperate feuds for Mania and put two young stars over in one go! Even if either was injured you still could have booked it better.

You only need to read Internet to see even those who were amazed by it last night and actually excited in the moment have woken up feeling dissapointed and pissed off this morning.

owen10ozzy wrote:I just don't see the logic in booking a Goldberg win if I'm honest; regardless of if he is booked through to Rumble. Run the beast close, have someone cost Goldberg the win..anything down those lines but to book someone as dominant as they have Lesnar in the past two years only for him to be battered within 2 minutes is nonsensical when it's a vet who hasn't stepped into the ring in 12 years. Simple as that!

I actually could have believed it more if it was for instance Braun Strowman..a man who has feasted on little guys and one questioned whether he could do it against a legit force..to have him come out and destroy Brock in that manner would have worked. But not Goldberg...at this moment in time and with the timescale/matches you will get out of him it's shock factor booking plain and simple...screams of 'quick quick look at us for a second...sign up to our network for free to see this shock result..inflate our numbers heading into the biggest run of the year' It's shock factor booking at its highest and bar the initial 'wow' moment it does nothing for anyone long term; be it Lesnar, Goldberg, WWE and the other talent who could have scored a win over either and been pushed after.

Heck had you done it right you could of had both looking strong, have a respect between the two at the end and then push both into seperate feuds for Mania and put two young stars over in one go! Even if either was injured you still could have booked it better.

You only need to read Internet to see even those who were amazed by it last night and actually excited in the moment have woken up feeling dissapointed and pissed off this morning.

Good to see you're giving the story/match a chance to play out before forming your opinion......

I was genuinely shocked and am actually interested to see how Brock takes the defeat/what it means for Goldberg going forward. It was better than watching two 50 year old men just suplex each other at a rate of one per 30 seconds for 20 minutes anyways.

With all due respect Owen there were probably people on the internet complaining the world didn't end on 21st December 2012

Here we go...

Dave Meltzer reported on Wrestling Observer Radio that Goldberg will definitely work with Brock Lesnar again in a rematch from last night's Survivor Series pay-per-view, where Goldberg defeated Lesnar in am 86 second match. Meltzer noted that the deal was put together within the past week, and it was something that Lesnar and others pushed for. It was noted that Lesnar saw money in a Goldberg program and didn't want to end it with one match, and Vince McMahon apparently saw that as well.

As for why the match was so short, Meltzer noted that it wasn't because of Goldberg being hurt. He said the match was changed to get Goldberg over once he agreed to stay, and the decision was made to do a short match like his short WCW matches that got him over in the first place.

Good Golly; like most opinions they are formed over time...no different to that which myself, you and plenty of others form in football! We look at what's happened in the past...

I would be happy to let it play out, if I had any faith in WWE Booking but based off past history I simply do not..

Even with the Dave Meltzer inside info which hints at a match down the line...from a booking sense it makes no sense. We all know this is make believe (sorry to spoil it guys) but when booking stories and matches it is done so on a level which is supposed to pique interest and make things seem believable to a level. Who the hell would want to watch Brock vs Goldberg III?! About as many as would tune in to see Bellew vs Cleverly for a 3rd time I'd imagine. Goldberg is now 2-0...not only that but Brock, the indestructible beast, ran him closer 12 years ago than he did last night. In that time Goldberg has trained, that's it...meanwhile Brock went on to become a World Champion in a legit combat sport (which WWE have heavily publicised during his return stint) and then came back to beat the biggest face of the company, break the streak and generally look unbeatable. After all that the former returns and beats him in 2 minutes! Ridiculous whichever you way you try to spin it...

I'll hedge a bet right now with anyone that this feud/ending to last night comes to absolutely nothing in terms of the future of the roster/future stars and the only people who will square up and potentially defeat either is each other, Cena, Taker, or likely HHH...and what rub does that give anyone?!

Anyhow...onto a more positive note (yes people believe..it's happening) in general I enjoyed the PPV! Mix clinging to his title is fantastic..I like the mid card titles on different shows..I also think Miz is in possibly the best run of his career! Generally people are very mixed on him but I think he's doing fantastic things at the moment. The survivor series tag matches were both good..I liked the Jericho/Owens play out..simple yet effective seeds planted for the fall out of the best friends. Clever way of writing Brawn out of the equation in the match too. It was a scrappy ending (Bray failed miserably with the sister Abigail) but the right people won and nice to see the Wyatt family come out on top in a big match. Do we see a shield reunion down the line?!

Also...Baron Corbin...every time I feel like I don't like his character/him something sucks me back in. I don't think he's fantastic at any one thing really but that being said...he's playing his role well and I enjoyed the way he came out and demolished the cruiser weights last night.

Special mention to Charlotte too! Bringing credibility back to women's wrestling! I hope they keep the title on her for another long run! Who do we see stepping up next to face her? Do we see a unified woman's championship match at mania happening? That would be a good way of taking another step in elevating women's wresting..have that be the go between belt on both shows

To be honest they normally throw a couple of big names together WM time to pop some buys. did Undertaker vs Shawn do anything for the future of the roster? Or HHH vs Taker, Cena Rock, HHH  Sting etc. The future of the roster was well represented elsewhere on the card.

Owen,

There is potential for this to work. That booking 'almost' makes sense. To make it work, Goldberg has to be just as dominant as before and they need to keep him away from Brock, and there lies the difficulty.

There aren't alot of high profile, powerful stars for Goldberg to go through without causing long term damage in terms of storyline. Braun has massive potential for a big man. I've struggled to buy into him, but since he split from Wyatt he's come into his own, and last night he proved he could do well. Too early to feed him to Brock, and he shouldn't be near Goldberg.

The simple solution for me would be for Goldberg to appear on Raw and have him announce he's back full time and he's going to win the Rumble and go to 'Mania. Have Lesnar appear and stare down, play the 'I wasn't ready' card, but Goldberg says he had his chance and walks away. Lesnar then goes on a rampage, on both shows (this could set up the potential Shane McMahon match) over a number of weeks, gets suspended and disappears. Goldberg goes to the rumble, runs riot and Lesnar either a) returns in the Rumble as well and they eliminate each other/brawl or b) Lesnar just attacks him at the Rumble to set up a 'Mania showdown.

Problem is, in the meantime, you need Goldberg being active, and that means feeding him someone who won't get hurt by losing and someone legit, and the candidates there are pretty slim.

HHH - Been there before.
Joe - Just won the NXT Championship
Angle - Question marks over his health.
Wyatt/Orton - Show placement.
Cena - Can't see them sacrificing him to Goldberg.

I imagine Goldberg will announce he's retiring and Brock/Heyman will insult his kid or something for another match.

He stood on the ropes after the match and shouted 'I'm back', and he's signed on to the Rumble, I highly doubt he's retiring.

GSC - I do agree that come Mania time logic does tend to go out of the window anyway...and they put together matches purely for but rates. But that being said..think this year (a lot like last year) they have a chance to build two or three absolute massive stars for the future of the company if they book things properly. I would hate to see loads of the old guns return to just to face off against each other..there has to come a time when you have the younger guys over them and do so legitimately.

Beer - Even with that story arc, and it's explained well and is plausible, I just don't buy into Brock being a threat regardless of what type of tear he goes on...the simple fact is from a booking stand point..your still saying 'well heck this guy is 0-2 against Goldberg..beaten more comprehensively 2nd time round despite the latter being retired for over a decade...but heck give him another shot he may pull it out of the bag'. Just doesn't work for me, but hey that's just me. Other people may indeed lap it up and really buy into it. Also a big problem with it...to have Brock even close to appearing as a threat he'd have to actually become a regular feature on the roster for the run into Mania and that just isn't happening. I think 2/3 weeks time, creative will realise they have booked themselves into a hole and we will end up with a cluster **c* of a programme leading into Mania which will probably effect other matches that were being looked at for the biggest event of the year.

At the end of the day, its got people talking and theres a buzz again.  Im looking forward to watching RAW for the first time in an age so it can only be a good thing.

After Goldberg looked so strong and they keep booking him this way then when Lesnar kills him in the rematch it instantly builds Brock again.  Hopefully this will be a spark to reignite Brock so he gets away from eatsleepsuplexrepeat.

The only problem I have with the end is no one is talking about Raw men vs Smackdown men because that was a match of the year candidate.

Completely agree with your point, that's why it's going to be difficult.

You can get around the job. Lesnar wasn't ready, under estimated Goldberg and got somewhat blindsided by the first Spear and it was curtains thereafter, and it fits with the Goldberg of old, and lets face it, that's how they want people to see him.

The issue is, everyone remembers that absymal match 12 years ago knows that Lesnar can go toe to toe with Goldberg, so having a squash when one is in his 50's is where the problems create. But again, where people see Lesnar taking the streak as a legit business decision because there's no way a beat up 'Taker beats the beast, this kind of works. How many wrestlers on the roster would've got up after those 2 spears? Very, very few. Like anything, you have to legitimise the situation, and that's where (history dictates) that the WWE will fail.

Meltzer alludes to money being key here, so if Brock wants a nice big pay day, he needs to work a schedule that will allow people to buy into the fact that he's not going to rest until Goldberg is done.

Is he facing Owens soon?

What a PPV, I thought the days of the traditional Survivor Series matches hogging the PPV where gone, didn't think it would be feasible to book them in this day and age but they delivered big time and it's the first time I've watched a PPV all the way through without skipping a bit since WrestleMania.

Also loved the finish, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Main Event's being booked like this on occassion if they are big hitters, what that shows us is any heavy hitter can have their day, it was a complete shock to see Brock go down like that, that in itself is brilliant, Brock has been totally dominant since he smashed Taker 2 and a half years ago, many people have felt for a while it has become too strong, no-one looked like they could realistically beat him, this shows it's possible, Brock could now have a revenge mission for Goldberg or he could be booked to become someone who's lost his confidence, someone other top guys could now beat if they're booked against him.

I've got no idea what people expected from this match, it was never going to be a classic, it was unlikely it was going to go past 10 minutes either, we could have had an 7/8 minute match where both guys had a few close calls then Goldberg wins, that would have been crapped all over IMO, while this had that spectacular wow factor, it's like someone knocking Mike Tyson out in the first round, it's a major story now.


P.S

What a Skipper Randy Orton is, when Shane got that nasty bump he was the guy that cleared the ring, kept the match flowing then when he got the word Shane was OK he got over to Shanes kid to give him the heads up not to worry, effortless.

Saw the thing on Orton earlier. He's really stepped it up over the last few years.

What the frak

However, with information coming out it appears that:

Match WASNT shortened as Goldberg was hurt, WAS to get Goldberg over
Lesnar was originally booked to win but has pushed for a series with Goldberg as he and Vince see money in it.
So they booked Goldberg to win to keep it alive
And this has had the shock factor.

BUT you run the risk of this c*** when booking an old man to face Lesnar. So, they don't deserve too many props. If the whole point of enduring Lesnar's bore tactics was that he would be a beast to be conquered (who was the original conqueror) then you can accept it. But now he got beat by an old man in 3 minutes.

It was shocking, and makes a story with them more interesting, but I hope to hell it isn't a 3 match series. Let Brock get the win and then let both be around with different people at Mania.

Rest of the event:

Brilliant

At 52 minutes and 55 seconds, the Raw vs. SmackDown Men's match was the longest Survivor Series match in history. And a perfectly booked match.

Women's (including the ending) perfectly booked.

Tag match actually really good, cleverly done to avoid the mess. Wouldnt have given the win to Sheamus/Cesaro though, regardless of people liking Cesaro in Canada.

Miz finish was brilliant.

Dont care about the Cruiserweights (which is probably why it should have gone to Smackdown)

I quite enjoyed the main event, the way I see it was it was the equivalent of a boxer or MMA underdog getting a flash knock out, I don't think it hurts Brock nor does it hurt his ability when/if they ever decide to pull the trigger on a guy beating him who's under the age of 40

Really enjoyed the 'tag tag'

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Rest of the event:

Brilliant

At 52 minutes and 55 seconds, the Raw vs. SmackDown Men's match was the longest Survivor Series match in history. And a perfectly booked match.

Women's (including the ending) perfectly booked.

Tag match actually really good, cleverly done to avoid the mess. Wouldnt have given the win to Sheamus/Cesaro though, regardless of people liking Cesaro in Canada.

Miz finish was brilliant.

Dont care about the Cruiserweights (which is probably why it should have gone to Smackdown)

Is maryse the best female manager in wwe history?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Is maryse the best female manager in wwe history?

Not a chance, that will always be Elizabeth.

Samo wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Is maryse the best female manager in wwe history?

Not a chance, that will always be Elizabeth.

Please. She caused the Mega Powers to explode. EXPLODE, brother!
It's Sapphire, hands down.

I always thought Sherri was better, Elizabeth just sort of stood there

My fave was Luna!

Hero wrote:My fave was Luna!

My fave is Lana.

Samo wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Is maryse the best female manager in wwe history?

Not a chance, that will always be Elizabeth.

Sensational Sherri was infinitely more talented in every department than Elizabeth