Dragons vs Edinburgh

Getting this one in early as I am currently working my notice and rather bored.

This is a big game for us. We really need a win to carry momentum into what are two crunch, back to back games against Worcester in December. If we win, it could really set our season up. Lose, and it is another momentum killer.

Hoping for a big crowd. Kids go free. Although sadly I will not be in attendance due to me having to attend my nephew's birthday in Reading

This is the Gwent team I would like put out:-

1. Tom Davies (yes I think he has played well in both games he has started this year. Very effective in the loose)
2. Elliot Dee (who is back from injuri I believe)
3. Brok Harries
4. Rynard Landman
5. Matthew Screech
6. Lewis Evans (c) (on fire this season)
7. Ollie Griffiths
8. Ed Jackson (not been his biggest fan, but very much on form)

9. Sarel Pretorious
10. Angus O'Brien (let's hope it is the AOB who played against Connacht, not the Scarlets)
11. Adam Warren
12. Jack Dixon
13. Sam Beard
14. Ashton Hewitt
15. Carl Meyer

16. Rhys Buckley
17. Sam Hobbs/Phil Price (take your pick)
18. Craig Mitchell (never to be brought on)
19. Nick Crosswell
20. Harrison Keddie (carried well against Scarlets and Leicester)
21.Tavis Knoyle (I think Charlie Davies is injured?)
22. Arwel Robson (it will no doubt be on of Kingsley's boys sadly)
23. Tyler Morgan

Any Edingburgh fans on here? What sort of side can we expect from you?

I suspect Edinburgh will field almost the same team that faced Ulster

1. Jack Cosgrove (unless Dickinson is fit)
2. Neil Cochrane
3. Murray McCallum
4. Fraser McKenzie
5. Ben Toolis
6. Viliami Fihaki
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Stuart McInally
9. Sean Kennedy
10. Jason Tovey
11. Tom Brown
12. Phil Burleigh
13. Chris Dean
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Blair Kinghorn

Not great with McInally our hooker probably needed in the backrow

I must admit I haven't been keeping tabs on Edinburgh. How is their form?

Good team Gav

GavinDragon wrote:I must admit I haven't been keeping tabs on Edinburgh. How is their form?

Up until Solomons left - Poor
Under Hodge - Mixed. We beat Harlequins, lost to Zebre and then in our last game beat Ulster.

Following this pattern, I suspect we'll lose to Dragons, given you're closer to Zebre (like us) than Ulster. But it's tough to say at this time, Hodge is still finding his feet and the team are learning to play rugby again.

How do Dragons fans rate their chances in this one?

Sounds like it's going to be big crowd, with kids going free, which should work in your favour. Wish Edinburgh would try this a bit more. We have a 67k stadium that is near empty each week, giving away 10k-30k tickets to schools etc wouldn't make a dent in filling the stadium.

EWT Spoons wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:I must admit I haven't been keeping tabs on Edinburgh. How is their form?

Up until Solomons left - Poor
Under Hodge - Mixed.  We beat Harlequins, lost to Zebre and then in our last game beat Ulster.

Following this pattern, I suspect we'll lose to Dragons, given you're closer to Zebre (like us) than Ulster.  But it's tough to say at this time, Hodge is still finding his feet and the team are learning to play rugby again.

How do Dragons fans rate their chances in this one?

Sounds like it's going to be big crowd, with kids going free, which should work in your favour.  Wish Edinburgh would try this a bit more.  We have a 67k stadium that is near empty each week, giving away 10k-30k tickets to schools etc wouldn't make a dent in filling the stadium.

Just because kids can go free, doesn't mean they will turn up in their droves. Although it being Sunday helps, and the supporters club have contact all the local clubs in the region to push it so here's hoping.

Didn't even realise Solomans had left. Did he jump or was he pushed?

I don't think us Dragons fans are ever too confident. We have beaten Brive, Connacht and a second string Scarlets side at home, but then got thumped at Leicester and Ospreys so who knows.

I think alot of it will hinge on AOB. His decision making got us over the line against Connacht (dropped two goals which was the winning margin). I suspect we will be in similar situations again on Sunday (where our attack breaks down in the opp 22), if he can keep his composure and keep the scoreboard ticking over, we are in with a shout.

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EWT Spoons wrote:I suspect Edinburgh will field almost the same team that faced Ulster

1. Jack Cosgrove (unless Dickinson is fit)
2. Neil Cochrane
3. Murray McCallum
4. Fraser McKenzie
5. Ben Toolis
6. Viliami Fihaki
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Stuart McInally
9. Sean Kennedy
10. Jason Tovey
11. Tom Brown
12. Phil Burleigh
13. Chris Dean
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Blair Kinghorn

Not great with McInally our hooker probably needed in the backrow

I would guess McInally would go to a flank and Fihaki would be at 8 but decent team. I would start SHC at 9 and put Kennedy on bench. If Hoyland is unavailable, please start Scholes. Is the Argentinian TH injured? It is actually a fairly decent side outside of no front row/back-row depth.

Bench: Turner, Cosgrove/Whyte(?), McCallum, Carmichael, Gordon/Crosbie/Miller (looked at academy on wiki, Miller is at LS but could he come up for a match?), Kennedy, Weir/Ras, Bryce/Allen

Hazel Sapling wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:I suspect Edinburgh will field almost the same team that faced Ulster

1. Jack Cosgrove (unless Dickinson is fit)
2. Neil Cochrane
3. Murray McCallum
4. Fraser McKenzie
5. Ben Toolis
6. Viliami Fihaki
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Stuart McInally
9. Sean Kennedy
10. Jason Tovey
11. Tom Brown
12. Phil Burleigh
13. Chris Dean
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Blair Kinghorn

Not great with McInally our hooker probably needed in the backrow

I would guess McInally would go to a flank and Fihaki would be at 8 but decent team. I would start SHC at 9 and put Kennedy on bench. If Hoyland is unavailable, please start Scholes. Is the Argentinian TH injured? It is actually a fairly decent side outside of no front row/back-row depth.

Bench: Turner, Cosgrove/Whyte(?), McCallum, Carmichael, Gordon/Crosbie/Miller (looked at academy on wiki, Miller is at LS but could he come up for a match?), Kennedy, Weir/Ras, Bryce/Allen

No, he's just been poor so far and McCallum hasn't.  I know it's early days (for both) but McCallum did pretty well last time out against Ulster and the Argentinian lad struggled against zebre, therefore I'd keep McCallum in the side.

What's happened to Tofilau? He seemed to be doing quite well at 13 earlier in the season, was he just a Solomon's pick or is Dean a better choice?

MacKnocked-on wrote:What's happened to Tofilau? He seemed to be doing quite well at 13 earlier in the season, was he just a Solomon's pick or is Dean a better choice?  

He hasn't played since Solomons left but to be fair Dean and Allan have done well in the 13 shirt.

Same for Rasolea - he has hardly featured in the post Solomons era.

GavinDragon wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:I must admit I haven't been keeping tabs on Edinburgh. How is their form?

Up until Solomons left - Poor
Under Hodge - Mixed.  We beat Harlequins, lost to Zebre and then in our last game beat Ulster.

Following this pattern, I suspect we'll lose to Dragons, given you're closer to Zebre (like us) than Ulster.  But it's tough to say at this time, Hodge is still finding his feet and the team are learning to play rugby again.

How do Dragons fans rate their chances in this one?

Sounds like it's going to be big crowd, with kids going free, which should work in your favour.  Wish Edinburgh would try this a bit more.  We have a 67k stadium that is near empty each week, giving away 10k-30k tickets to schools etc wouldn't make a dent in filling the stadium.

Just because kids can go free, doesn't mean they will turn up in their droves. Although it being Sunday helps, and the supporters club have contact all the local clubs in the region to push it so here's hoping.

Didn't even realise Solomans had left. Did he jump or was he pushed?

I don't think us Dragons fans are ever too confident. We have beaten Brive, Connacht and a second string Scarlets side at home, but then got thumped at Leicester and Ospreys so who knows.

I think alot of it will hinge on AOB. His decision making got us over the line against Connacht (dropped two goals which was the winning margin). I suspect we will be in similar situations again on Sunday (where our attack breaks down in the opp 22), if he can keep his composure and keep the scoreboard ticking over, we are in with a shout.

He was sacked, and probably a season too late. We had well and truly stagnated under his reign, but I think most people would agree he added much needed stability to a team in freefall.

As for our form, it has improved under Hodge but the loss at home to Zebre is a huge black mark against him - it was one of the worst Edinburgh performances of the modern era. if we had won that then we would have gone into the international break with 5 wins in a row and looking upwards in the table. We have beaten a first choice Harlequins team and also got a good win over Ulster recently.

I would like to think that we will have enough to win this game but we're so inconsistent just now I don't know - we also don't have our usual weapon of destroying the Dragons in the scrums!

Yes. Nel has really done us over in our last few meetings and our scrum has improved this season.

Should be an interesting game

The exchange of not mullering the scrum is that Edinburgh are actually showing ambition in open play now and can score tries from anywhere as opposed to relying on unreliable kickers for points. I am not sure, but Tovey might be looking forward to this game a little bit....

Ha, I am sure he is. He will get a warm welcome as a local lad, who we should never have let go in my opinion.

GavinDragon wrote:Ha, I am sure he is. He will get a warm welcome as a local lad, who we should never have let go in my opinion.

You'll be pleased to hear then that he's been one of our best players this season and looks to be the answer to our troubles at 10...

Doesn't surprise me. Very good player who, when confident, can distribute, run and kick extremely well.

His goal kicking has been the worst bit to be fair! He offers so much more in attack than Duncan Weir though, and already has a number of assists to his name.

I meant his kicking out of hand... a few years back he seemed to have a telepathic understanding with Aled Brew and put a number of crossfields in for Brew to score....lead to Brew being called up for Wales.

Yea his goal kicking is hit and miss.

Gav - with this Edinburgh team flakier than a stale croissant in a wind tunnel, Dragons will either win by 7 or lose by a bucketload depending on which Edinburgh team shows up.

Beating Quins and then Ulster but brainfarting to Zebre at HOME makes them almost impossible to predict.

Sam Beard - blast from the past. Good player, and a better one than Chris Dean.

I'd expect the same team as the one that triumphed over Ulster, although I doubt the Dragons will be quite as tame as Ulster, especially in front of their own crowd. Still, the Tovey/Burleigh axis has huge promise and Hoyland and Kinghorn are both exciting in attack. Our pack was very good against Ulster, and McKenzie and Ben Toolis put in a massive shift. I wonder if we'll get CDP back from Scotland?

GavinDragon wrote:This is the Gwent team I would like put out:-

1. Tom Davies (yes I think he has played well in both games he has started this year. Very effective in the loose)
2. Elliot Dee (who is back from injuri I believe)
3. Brok Harries
4. Rynard Landman
5. Matthew Screech
6. Lewis Evans (c) (on fire this season)
7. Ollie Griffiths
8. Ed Jackson (not been his biggest fan, but very much on form)

9. Sarel Pretorious
10. Angus O'Brien (let's hope it is the AOB who played against Connacht, not the Scarlets)
11. Adam Warren
12. Jack Dixon
13. Sam Beard
14. Ashton Hewitt
15. Carl Meyer

16. Rhys Buckley
17. Sam Hobbs/Phil Price (take your pick)
18. Craig Mitchell (never to be brought on)
19. Nick Crosswell
20. Harrison Keddie (carried well against Scarlets and Leicester)
21.Tavis Knoyle (I think Charlie Davies is injured?)
22. Arwel Robson (it will no doubt be on of Kingsley's boys sadly)
23. Tyler Morgan

We have to find space in the squad for Pat Howard, in my opinion.

Also, Keddie's holding tackle bags for Team Wales this week, so he probably won't be considered for selection.

Surely this is the game that Tovey has been waiting all season for?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:This is the Gwent team I would like put out:-

1. Tom Davies (yes I think he has played well in both games he has started this year. Very effective in the loose)
2. Elliot Dee (who is back from injuri I believe)
3. Brok Harries
4. Rynard Landman
5. Matthew Screech
6. Lewis Evans (c) (on fire this season)
7. Ollie Griffiths
8. Ed Jackson (not been his biggest fan, but very much on form)

9. Sarel Pretorious
10. Angus O'Brien (let's hope it is the AOB who played against Connacht, not the Scarlets)
11. Adam Warren
12. Jack Dixon
13. Sam Beard
14. Ashton Hewitt
15. Carl Meyer

16. Rhys Buckley
17. Sam Hobbs/Phil Price (take your pick)
18. Craig Mitchell (never to be brought on)
19. Nick Crosswell
20. Harrison Keddie (carried well against Scarlets and Leicester)
21.Tavis Knoyle (I think Charlie Davies is injured?)
22. Arwel Robson (it will no doubt be on of Kingsley's boys sadly)
23. Tyler Morgan

We have to find space in the squad for Pat Howard, in my opinion.

Also, Keddie's holding tackle bags for Team Wales this week, so he probably won't be considered for selection.

I knew I was forgetting soemone. Paddy comes in on the wing for Adam Warren.

Yes, it will be Jay Thomas or Cudd on the bench no doubt.

I don't think Landman will play either from what I am hearing

Looking at the Scotland team we're probably going to be able to put a strong team out (apart from the props)

1. Jack Cosgrove/ Dickinson
2. Stuart McInally
3. Murray McCallum
4. Fraser McKenzie
5. Ben Toolis
6. Magnus Bradbury
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Cornel Du Preez

9. Sean Kennedy
10. Jason Tovey
11. Tom Brown
12. Phil Burleigh
13. Chris Dean
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Blair Kinghorn

Bit harsh on McCallum who I think has had a fairly decent run for Edinburgh! Young lad and still learning!

Trivia time: 'cornel' is the Welsh word for corner.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Looking at the Scotland team we're probably going to be able to put a strong team out (apart from the props)

1. Jack Cosgrove/ Dickinson
2. Stuart McInally
3. Murray McCallum
4. Fraser McKenzie
5. Ben Toolis
6. Magnus Bradbury
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Cornel Du Preez

9. Sean Kennedy
10. Jason Tovey
11. Tom Brown
12. Phil Burleigh
13. Chris Dean
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Blair Kinghorn

That's a very decent team for an international window. Those props showed up well against Ulster, and absolutely nothing wrong with the rest of the team.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Trivia time: 'cornel' is the Welsh word for corner.

Trivia time: "nathair-sgiathach" is the Gaelic word for Dragon. Catchy isn't it.

Is 'nathair' Gaelic for snake? If so, it's similar to the Welsh, 'neidr'.

Either way, it makes for a great chant.

It is, yupp

15 Carl Meyer, 14 Pat Howard, 13 Sam Beard, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Ashton Hewitt, 10 Angus O’Brien, 9 Tavis Knoyle; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Thomas Rhys Thomas, 3 Brok Harris, 4 Nick Crosswell, 5 Rynard Landman, 6 Lewis Evans (c), 7 Ollie Griffiths, 8 Ed Jackson.

Replacements:

Rhys Buckley, Phil Price, Lloyd Fairbrother, Matthew Screech, Nic Cudd, Sarel Pretorius, Geraint Rhys Jones, Tyler Morgan.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:15 Carl Meyer, 14 Pat Howard, 13 Sam Beard, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Ashton Hewitt, 10 Angus O’Brien, 9 Tavis Knoyle; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Thomas Rhys Thomas, 3 Brok Harris, 4 Nick Crosswell, 5 Rynard Landman, 6 Lewis Evans (c), 7 Ollie Griffiths, 8 Ed Jackson.

Replacements:

Rhys Buckley, Phil Price, Lloyd Fairbrother, Matthew Screech, Nic Cudd, Sarel Pretorius, Geraint Rhys Jones, Tyler Morgan.

Some great names there.

I wonder if Angus O'Brien has celtic roots?

1 Jack Cosgrove
2 Neil Chochrane
3 Murray McAllum
4 Frazer McKenzie
5 Ben Toolis
6 Magnus Bradbury
7 Jamie Ritchie
8 Nasi Manu

9. Sean Kennedy
10. Jason Tovey
11. Michael Allan
12. Phil Burleigh
13. Chris Dean
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Blair Kinghorn

Subs - Kyle White, Stuart McInally, Felipe Arregui, Lewis Charmichael, Mad Mata, SHC, Duncan Weir, Glen Bryce

Mata and Manu are healthy? I see why CDP has been overlooked. Mata in particular looks a real find. Would have wanted Scholes at 11 ahead of Allen but Allen has been playing better. Good line-up.

I reckon Edinburgh by 10. Close until the last 10 minutes when Edinburgh get a try to seal it.

I suspect CDP will be the travelling reserve with Scotland.

I am also amazed Mata and Manu are fit - let's see if Manu last 80 minutes...

I'm expecting a big game from Bradbury!

Thats a good Edinburgh team, albeit with very inexperienced props. I have been impressed with Cosgrove in particular when I have seen him play. Delighted Mata and Manu are fit, lets hope they can stay that way.

Good side, and pleased that Manu is back. Every game from him seems like a bonus!

Cochrane is a good player, but I do think that McInally generally offers more. I think Ritchie will do well again at 7.

McInally has been away with Scotland the whole time so he's probably going with the player that has been training with Edinburgh.

Cochrane is a good solid pro so no issues there.

That's a surprisingly good exfoliator side and will give the men of Gwent some real bother I think provided the Edinburgh alter ego side - 'Cold T!ts For Hands First XV' - don't decide to show up instead.

George Carlin wrote:That's a surprisingly good exfoliator side and will give the men of Gwent some real bother I think provided the Edinburgh alter ego side -  'Cold T!ts For Hands First XV' - don't decide to show up instead.

That's my worry - we had a similarly good team out against Zebre, after a moral boosting win against Harlequins, and still lost!

Hopefully Hodge has got their mentality right for this one.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:15 Carl Meyer, 14 Pat Howard, 13 Sam Beard, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Ashton Hewitt, 10 Angus O’Brien, 9 Tavis Knoyle; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Thomas Rhys Thomas, 3 Brok Harris, 4 Nick Crosswell, 5 Rynard Landman, 6 Lewis Evans (c), 7 Ollie Griffiths, 8 Ed Jackson.

Replacements:

Rhys Buckley, Phil Price, Lloyd Fairbrother, Matthew Screech, Nic Cudd, Sarel Pretorius, Geraint Rhys Jones, Tyler Morgan.

Not bad, bar 2 and 22.

RiscaGame wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:15 Carl Meyer, 14 Pat Howard, 13 Sam Beard, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Ashton Hewitt, 10 Angus O’Brien, 9 Tavis Knoyle; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Thomas Rhys Thomas, 3 Brok Harris, 4 Nick Crosswell, 5 Rynard Landman, 6 Lewis Evans (c), 7 Ollie Griffiths, 8 Ed Jackson.

Replacements:

Rhys Buckley, Phil Price, Lloyd Fairbrother, Matthew Screech, Nic Cudd, Sarel Pretorius, Geraint Rhys Jones, Tyler Morgan.

Not bad, bar 2 and 22.

Do you not trust blokes with Rhys for a middle name?

Still no Dee ?

Hazel Sapling wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:15 Carl Meyer, 14 Pat Howard, 13 Sam Beard, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Ashton Hewitt, 10 Angus O’Brien, 9 Tavis Knoyle; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Thomas Rhys Thomas, 3 Brok Harris, 4 Nick Crosswell, 5 Rynard Landman, 6 Lewis Evans (c), 7 Ollie Griffiths, 8 Ed Jackson.

Replacements:

Rhys Buckley, Phil Price, Lloyd Fairbrother, Matthew Screech, Nic Cudd, Sarel Pretorius, Geraint Rhys Jones, Tyler Morgan.

Not bad, bar 2 and 22.

Do you not trust blokes with Rhys for a middle name?

Great observation.

munkian wrote:Still no Dee ?

He is fit as well from what I hear. Don't understand that selection one bit. That, and the sons coach being on the bench, aside, happy enough with that team. Would have preferred to see Harri Keddie on the bench, but he is getting a whole game for Ebbw Vale tomorrow at least

Cool - cheers.

GavinDragon wrote:

munkian wrote:Still no Dee ?

He is fit as well from what I hear. Don't understand that selection one bit. That, and the sons coach being on the bench, aside, happy enough with that team. Would have preferred to see Harri Keddie on the bench, but he is getting a whole game for Ebbw Vale tomorrow at least

On the one hand, I can understand them not wanting to rush him back if it means he could be out for longer; on the other hand, he's our best hooker, and we need to win on Sunday.

Even if they're playing it safe in resting Dee, I'd prefer them to start Rhys Buckley. Rhys Thomas's darts have been all over the shop this season, and that's particularly frustrating when our driving lineout is a bit of a weapon these days.

This game is on S4C at half 3

Anyone care to guess at how many minutes in Manu will leave the field injured? I'm feeling optimistic today, so I'll go with 54.