Dragons vs Edinburgh

First topic message reminder :

Getting this one in early as I am currently working my notice and rather bored.

This is a big game for us. We really need a win to carry momentum into what are two crunch, back to back games against Worcester in December. If we win, it could really set our season up. Lose, and it is another momentum killer.

Hoping for a big crowd. Kids go free. Although sadly I will not be in attendance due to me having to attend my nephew's birthday in Reading

This is the Gwent team I would like put out:-

1. Tom Davies (yes I think he has played well in both games he has started this year. Very effective in the loose)
2. Elliot Dee (who is back from injuri I believe)
3. Brok Harries
4. Rynard Landman
5. Matthew Screech
6. Lewis Evans (c) (on fire this season)
7. Ollie Griffiths
8. Ed Jackson (not been his biggest fan, but very much on form)

9. Sarel Pretorious
10. Angus O'Brien (let's hope it is the AOB who played against Connacht, not the Scarlets)
11. Adam Warren
12. Jack Dixon
13. Sam Beard
14. Ashton Hewitt
15. Carl Meyer

16. Rhys Buckley
17. Sam Hobbs/Phil Price (take your pick)
18. Craig Mitchell (never to be brought on)
19. Nick Crosswell
20. Harrison Keddie (carried well against Scarlets and Leicester)
21.Tavis Knoyle (I think Charlie Davies is injured?)
22. Arwel Robson (it will no doubt be on of Kingsley's boys sadly)
23. Tyler Morgan

Any Edingburgh fans on here? What sort of side can we expect from you?

What is going on at the breakdown. Never seen anything like it, time and time again. Edinburgh so careless

Welsh 3/4 play at its finest,not.

Great cover tackle

And Edinburgh replicate it.

How long to go? do I need to find a disreputable video stream?

And Edinburgh replicate it.

Bryce having a shocker since he has come on

George Carlin wrote:How long to go? do I need to find a disreputable video stream?

Don't punish yourself GC! (at 77 minutes now)

Edinburgh at their most infuriating. They could have won this game and are going to go home with nothing

Another classic Edinburgh performance (I e. Abysmal)

Well done Dragons, very impressed with the Dragons Openside. A standout MoM

Enjoyable if frenetic game.Not sure how the Edinburgh pack will feel about losing that.

Cracking win Dragons, we (Wales) are really well endowed with opensides, great game Griffiths.

I'll take the win but Kingsleys timing of subs baffles me, why did he take Griffiths off at 60 mins when he was playing so well! Losing Screech had a big impact on our set piece as we lost weight in the scrum effectively having 2 back rows at lock which meant we could et no set piece momentum second half. Fair play to Edinburgh for coming back just didn't have the execution in 22 likewise with Dragons who should of had a bonus point

There were a few positives for Edinburgh. The two young props played very well and look up to professional rugby.

Weir and SHC also looked much sharper when they came on as well.

I lost count of the line out takes that Toolis made.

The breakdown was just abysmal though and why did they not try to play with a little bit of control from the start rather than get into a game of sevens.

That was a winnable game and won't do Hodge any favours when it comes to contract time.

Given that Edinburgh have a significantly bigger budget and, on paper at least, higher profile players not getting any points from that game really is poor.

Dragons were well worth their win but we didn't help ourselves with terrible tackling, set piece and a shambolic rucking performance.

dragon4life wrote:I'll take the win but Kingsleys timing of subs baffles me, why did he take Griffiths off at 60 mins when he was playing so well! Losing Screech had a big impact on our set piece as we lost weight in the scrum effectively having 2 back rows at lock which meant we could et no set piece momentum second half. Fair play to Edinburgh for coming back just didn't have the execution in 22 likewise with Dragons who should of had a bonus point

Agree with all of that. Needless substitution and I do feel we definitely left a point out there.

Just watched it back. My thought:-

- Griffiths is an international standard 7. I think Ashton could also force himself into the reckoning.
- Our scrum was reasonably solid and the lineout was OK until screech went off.
- The desire and commitment in defence was excellent. Again, Lewis Evans was massive in this aspect of the game.
- Angus - good going forward, sometimes found wanting in defence
- Felt we left two tries out there.

Four on the bounce at home now. Sets us up well for December and Europe. Let's hope we don't sustain any injuries.

As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

Edinburgh are allergic to bonus points. Every season we leaves bags of points out there!

I really don't think Hodge has done enough.

We left a few tries out there ourselves

funnyExiledScot wrote:Edinburgh are allergic to bonus points. Every season we leaves bags of points out there!

I really don't think Hodge has done enough.

The frustrating thing with Edinburgh is that it wouldn't surprise me at all if we go on to win at the Scarlets next week! We normally do much better after a bad defeat then the cycle repeats itself...

munkian wrote:We left a few tries out there ourselves

I appreciate that, it was more the observation that we have a habit of losing by 8 or 9 points, and winning with 3 tries scored.

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays. One in particular I thought was close though. Regardless, he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

munkian wrote:We left a few tries out there ourselves

I appreciate that, it was more the observation that we have a habit of losing by 8 or 9 points, and winning with 3 tries scored.

Fairy nuff

Just a note on the pitch. A bit of a moan I suppose. I know it has much higher 'traffic' than most others in the uk (there was an article about it being the most used pitch in the UK a while back - 2 pro sports teams and a semi pro one). I know the staff work tirelessly and are a cracking bunch by the sounds of it. And I know we can't help the weather. But it just looked a mess again yesterday after all the rain recently. And it'll get worse. Newport County have already had a few games called off and we're not even into December.

Something needs to change. Either 1 team has to go or they need to fund a new pitch. There's schools in Newport with better pitches! Some have 4g pitches so for the pro teams based in Newport to have worse facilities is a bit embarrassing. Credit to the teams for playing quite an open game yesterday but it was a bit of a mud bath yet it hasn't rained since Thursday. Just wait until the Dec/Jan/Feb awful weather.

Sooooo..... Do they eject a team so the pitch has more time to recover? Newport County pay a decent rent I think and have signed a long term lease. Newport RFC can't go as it's their ground! Do the Dragons get kicked out?! Or, do we need to get some funding from somewhere? It would make for much better rugby and entertainment if we had a decent surface. Stuart Davies has said that the costs are prohibitive. So we're a bit stuck. But I think they need to find the money, get a loan or look at who's playing there or it's really going to affect the marketability of the Dragons going forward.

EST wrote:

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays.  One in particular I thought was close though.  Regardless,  he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

He's only 20 I think. Came through the Newport RFC ranks and Dragons academy (I think). A local Newport lad. Played Wales U20. Has been tipped for international honours perhaps as a successor to Warburton. Would be nice to see him involved in the Wales set up but he's only just breaking into the Dragons team so I'd give him this season to prove himself before chucking him in with Wales. Maybe get him training with them a bit.

Griff wrote:Just a note on the pitch. A bit of a moan I suppose. I know it has much higher 'traffic' than most others in the uk (there was an article about it being the most used pitch in the UK a while back - 2 pro sports teams and a semi pro one). I know the staff work tirelessly and are a cracking bunch by the sounds of it. And I know we can't help the weather. But it just looked a mess again yesterday after all the rain recently. And it'll get worse. Newport County have already had a few games called off and we're not even into December.

Something needs to change. Either 1 team has to go or they need to fund a new pitch. There's schools in Newport with better pitches! Some have 4g pitches so for the pro teams based in Newport to have worse facilities is a bit embarrassing. Credit to the teams for playing quite an open game yesterday but it was a bit of a mud bath yet it hasn't rained since Thursday. Just wait until the Dec/Jan/Feb awful weather.

Sooooo..... Do they eject a team so the pitch has more time to recover? Newport County pay a decent rent I think and have signed a long term lease. Newport RFC can't go as it's their ground! Do the Dragons get kicked out?! Or, do we need to get some funding from somewhere? It would make for much better rugby and entertainment if we had a decent surface. Stuart Davies has said that the costs are prohibitive. So we're a bit stuck. But I think they need to find the money, get a loan or look at who's playing there or it's really going to affect the marketability of the Dragons going forward.

There's been flash flooding all week ffs and until the surrounding sewer outlets are sorted then you are always going to get surface water as there is no where else to go.

I think considering the weather over the past week or so its not anywhere as bad as you make out.

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays.  One in particular I thought was close though.  Regardless,  he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

He's only 20 I think. Came through the Newport RFC ranks and Dragons academy (I think). A local Newport lad. Played Wales U20. Has been tipped for international honours perhaps as a successor to Warburton. Would be nice to see him involved in the Wales set up but he's only just breaking into the Dragons team so I'd give him this season to prove himself before chucking him in with Wales. Maybe get him training with them a bit.

Yeah, I was very impressed. He was over the ball lightning quick.

He was also helped by us not committing enough number to the breakdown - too many players standing out in the backline not hitting rucks.

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays.  One in particular I thought was close though.  Regardless,  he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

He's only 20 I think. Came through the Newport RFC ranks and Dragons academy (I think). A local Newport lad. Played Wales U20. Has been tipped for international honours perhaps as a successor to Warburton. Would be nice to see him involved in the Wales set up but he's only just breaking into the Dragons team so I'd give him this season to prove himself before chucking him in with Wales. Maybe get him training with them a bit.

He's captained Newport, but I'm pretty sure he's not from Newport.

Captained the Under-20s too, as I recall it.

Wikki says hes from the port but could obviously be wrong

munkian wrote:

Griff wrote:Just a note on the pitch. A bit of a moan I suppose. I know it has much higher 'traffic' than most others in the uk (there was an article about it being the most used pitch in the UK a while back - 2 pro sports teams and a semi pro one). I know the staff work tirelessly and are a cracking bunch by the sounds of it. And I know we can't help the weather. But it just looked a mess again yesterday after all the rain recently. And it'll get worse. Newport County have already had a few games called off and we're not even into December.

Something needs to change. Either 1 team has to go or they need to fund a new pitch. There's schools in Newport with better pitches! Some have 4g pitches so for the pro teams based in Newport to have worse facilities is a bit embarrassing. Credit to the teams for playing quite an open game yesterday but it was a bit of a mud bath yet it hasn't rained since Thursday. Just wait until the Dec/Jan/Feb awful weather.

Sooooo..... Do they eject a team so the pitch has more time to recover? Newport County pay a decent rent I think and have signed a long term lease. Newport RFC can't go as it's their ground! Do the Dragons get kicked out?! Or, do we need to get some funding from somewhere? It would make for much better rugby and entertainment if we had a decent surface. Stuart Davies has said that the costs are prohibitive. So we're a bit stuck. But I think they need to find the money, get a loan or look at who's playing there or it's really going to affect the marketability of the Dragons going forward.

There's been flash flooding all week ffs and until the surrounding sewer outlets are sorted then you are always going to get surface water as there is no where else to go.

I think considering the weather over the past week or so its not anywhere as bad as you make out.

Munk, this sort of backs up my point though.  Bad weather, torrential rain, surface water are not going to get any better any time soon.  And bad weather happens to all teams.  Yet we're the ones with the most cancelled games, playing home games elsewhere (remember that a few times in Europe), frozen pitches, etc.  Other teams do not suffer as much as they have a better pitch and usually only one side playing on it.  So my point was that in order to reach the standards of other teams, and as we cannot control the weather, we need to change one of the other variables, i.e. reduce the number of teams playing on it or get a better pitch.  The drainage thing is part and parcel of that too.  We always have a few games per season cancelled.  Some other games that go ahead are completely spoiled by the mud bath.  It doesn't happen at teams with a better pitch and less sides using it.  I want us to be one of those better teams!  I want people to rave about our pitch rather than laugh at it.

Griff wrote:

munkian wrote:

Griff wrote:Just a note on the pitch. A bit of a moan I suppose. I know it has much higher 'traffic' than most others in the uk (there was an article about it being the most used pitch in the UK a while back - 2 pro sports teams and a semi pro one). I know the staff work tirelessly and are a cracking bunch by the sounds of it. And I know we can't help the weather. But it just looked a mess again yesterday after all the rain recently. And it'll get worse. Newport County have already had a few games called off and we're not even into December.

Something needs to change. Either 1 team has to go or they need to fund a new pitch. There's schools in Newport with better pitches! Some have 4g pitches so for the pro teams based in Newport to have worse facilities is a bit embarrassing. Credit to the teams for playing quite an open game yesterday but it was a bit of a mud bath yet it hasn't rained since Thursday. Just wait until the Dec/Jan/Feb awful weather.

Sooooo..... Do they eject a team so the pitch has more time to recover? Newport County pay a decent rent I think and have signed a long term lease. Newport RFC can't go as it's their ground! Do the Dragons get kicked out?! Or, do we need to get some funding from somewhere? It would make for much better rugby and entertainment if we had a decent surface. Stuart Davies has said that the costs are prohibitive. So we're a bit stuck. But I think they need to find the money, get a loan or look at who's playing there or it's really going to affect the marketability of the Dragons going forward.

There's been flash flooding all week ffs and until the surrounding sewer outlets are sorted then you are always going to get surface water as there is no where else to go.

I think considering the weather over the past week or so its not anywhere as bad as you make out.

Munk, this sort of backs up my point though.  Bad weather, torrential rain, surface water are not going to get any better any time soon.  And bad weather happens to all teams.  Yet we're the ones with the most cancelled games, playing home games elsewhere (remember that a few times in Europe), frozen pitches, etc.  Other teams do not suffer as much as they have a better pitch and usually only one side playing on it.  So my point was that in order to reach the standards of other teams, and as we cannot control the weather, we need to change one of the other variables, i.e. reduce the number of teams playing on it or get a better pitch.  The drainage thing is part and parcel of that too.  We always have a few games per season cancelled.  Some other games that go ahead are completely spoiled by the mud bath.  It doesn't happen at teams with a better pitch and less sides using it.  I want use to be one of those better teams!  I want people to rave about out pitch rather than laugh at it.

Glasgow had the same problems until they laid the 4G pitch this year.  I suspect that is your only long term answer.  As for costs, depending on add-ons I think you are looking at £750k.

Looking back on the game the late hit on Angus was rather cynical and could have easily been carded.

The first Embra try was dubious too, looked short to me.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays.  One in particular I thought was close though.  Regardless,  he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

He's only 20 I think. Came through the Newport RFC ranks and Dragons academy (I think). A local Newport lad. Played Wales U20. Has been tipped for international honours perhaps as a successor to Warburton. Would be nice to see him involved in the Wales set up but he's only just breaking into the Dragons team so I'd give him this season to prove himself before chucking him in with Wales. Maybe get him training with them a bit.

He's captained Newport, but I'm pretty sure he's not from Newport.

Captained the Under-20s too, as I recall it.

I think he and Jack Dixon are from Newbridge? Certainly him anyway

demosthenes wrote:Glasgow had the same problems until they laid the 4G pitch this year.  I suspect that is your only long term answer.  As for costs, depending on add-ons I think you are looking at £750k.

Plus we would have to kick out Newport County, as the Football League won't allow them to play on that pitch. We would have to have the same style pitch as Liberty Stadium.

RiscaGame wrote:

demosthenes wrote:Glasgow had the same problems until they laid the 4G pitch this year.  I suspect that is your only long term answer.  As for costs, depending on add-ons I think you are looking at £750k.

Plus we would have to kick out Newport County, as the Football League won't allow them to play on that pitch. We would have to have the same style pitch as Liberty Stadium.

When I said 4g earlier that's what I meant: the type that Ospreys, Cardiff City Stadium, Principality Stadium, Murrayfield, etc. all have as opposed to the type that Cardiff Blues and Saracens have (full synthetic). County would be allowed to play on those hybrid pitches. Desso Grassmaster is a popular pitch brand.

Griff wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

demosthenes wrote:Glasgow had the same problems until they laid the 4G pitch this year.  I suspect that is your only long term answer.  As for costs, depending on add-ons I think you are looking at £750k.

Plus we would have to kick out Newport County, as the Football League won't allow them to play on that pitch. We would have to have the same style pitch as Liberty Stadium.

When I said 4g earlier that's what I meant: the type that Ospreys, Cardiff City Stadium, Principality Stadium, Murrayfield, etc. all have as opposed to the type that Cardiff Blues and Saracens have (full synthetic). County would be allowed to play on those hybrid pitches. Desso Grassmaster is a popular pitch brand.

You might have a problem with that level of usage on a hybrid. All pitches have a maximum playing use in terms of hours to allow for recovery, maintenance, etc. From recollection an artificial gives you 10 times the useage of a grass park (they still need maintenance, etc. to allow for optimum life and playability) whereas a hybrid only gives you three times.

Most multi-user stadiums have artificial surfaces for that reason - you don't get enough otherwise.

Sounds like you have a problem!

Yup!

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays.  One in particular I thought was close though.  Regardless,  he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

He's only 20 I think. Came through the Newport RFC ranks and Dragons academy (I think). A local Newport lad. Played Wales U20. Has been tipped for international honours perhaps as a successor to Warburton. Would be nice to see him involved in the Wales set up but he's only just breaking into the Dragons team so I'd give him this season to prove himself before chucking him in with Wales. Maybe get him training with them a bit.

He is from Newbridge I think, but played for Newport RFC, yes. I think he has fantastic potential.

Two other young lads we have who are from Newport, Angus O'Brien and Ashton Hewitt, were also very good on the weekend.

Ah ok, I thought I read that he grew up in Newport. Good chance I'm wrong though!

Just good to see the region producing some quality players. About time too with the number of junior clubs we have in Gwent.

GavinDragon wrote:Just good to see the region producing some quality players. About time too with the number of junior clubs we have in Gwent.

We always have, the problem has been the lack of decent training facilities and the persistent lack of investment by the board.

RiscaGame wrote:

demosthenes wrote:Glasgow had the same problems until they laid the 4G pitch this year.  I suspect that is your only long term answer.  As for costs, depending on add-ons I think you are looking at £750k.

Plus we would have to kick out Newport County, as the Football League won't allow them to play on that pitch. We would have to have the same style pitch as Liberty Stadium.

I'll stand up and be counted here. I reckon given the likely two marbles and a conker scenario vis the rental income from County, I'd say they were a net loss in terms of the contribution to the bread and butter business at Dave Parade and should be f***ed off, sharpish.

GavinDragon wrote:

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:

munkian wrote:As for the Griffiths turnovers - from what I remember he wasn't part of the ruck so wasn't in an offside position

They certainly could have been legal, Munkian - I didn't see many replays.  One in particular I thought was close though.  Regardless,  he was the best player on the park by some distance - never heard of him before, whats the deal with him?

He's only 20 I think. Came through the Newport RFC ranks and Dragons academy (I think). A local Newport lad. Played Wales U20. Has been tipped for international honours perhaps as a successor to Warburton. Would be nice to see him involved in the Wales set up but he's only just breaking into the Dragons team so I'd give him this season to prove himself before chucking him in with Wales. Maybe get him training with them a bit.

He is from Newbridge I think, but played for Newport RFC, yes. I think he has fantastic potential.

Two other young lads we have who are from Newport, Angus O'Brien and Ashton Hewitt, were also very good on the weekend.

Oh and I take it back Gav, some of this lot can play. Whether we have enough in the front five to get away with that s*** against better sides than Embra I'll need some convincing, but fair play they threw it around with the gayest of abandon at times given the conditions.

We don't, yet. But we are in a far better position than we have been for years. The squad seem to be enjoying their rugby and seem settled. Rodney Parade is becoming a tough place to come again - long may it continue.

One name to look out for - Max Williams. The lad is only 18 but already been moved from Pontypool to Ebbw Vale and is the next big thing off the production line.

Stone Motif wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

demosthenes wrote:Glasgow had the same problems until they laid the 4G pitch this year.  I suspect that is your only long term answer.  As for costs, depending on add-ons I think you are looking at £750k.

Plus we would have to kick out Newport County, as the Football League won't allow them to play on that pitch. We would have to have the same style pitch as Liberty Stadium.

I'll stand up and be counted here. I reckon given the likely two marbles and a conker scenario vis the rental income from County, I'd say they were a net loss in terms of the contribution to the bread and butter business at Dave Parade and should be f***ed off, sharpish.

If (and it's looking likely they will) they get relegated, perhaps they might have to f themselves off back to Spytty, unless Dave is significantly cheaper. I guess the trouble is, it's them who have helped out with the pitch improvements so they might take some shifting.

I am led to believe that if County are relegated to conference, they will
leave RP

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment, how much rent do we pay in comparison to the Country? I had it in my head that we were there for free!