Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

[dyrewolfe]

First topic message reminder :

Looks a tough job for Ricciardo now at RB going forward. I imagine that smile will be permanently turned upside down, from next season.

Still think Hamilton can take many positives out of this season, even if he gets pipped to the title. He won the qualifying head to head & in race pace, the gap between himself & Nico is still sizeable. He's also strengthened his legacy by surpassing Prost in total wins & is now only eight poles behind Schumacher. Even yesterday, Verstappen pretty much schooled everybody, apart from a faultless Hamilton, which just showcases the class of Lewis.

Its a real shame as those 3 engine failures have effectively cost him the title. The only DNF Rosberg has suffered was when they took each other out on the first lap in Spain.

Suppose you could say Lewis should have done better in Singapore and Azerbaijan, but the fact remains that with better reliability, Lewis would be looking at a 4th title.

[Hammersmith harrier]

No its an individual sport first and foremost, commercially it's a team sport.

[CaledonianCraig]

Often think people genuinely get confused as to whether F1 is an individual or team sport. It's the latter.

Well that's not true or else why have a driver's championship?

[Mad for Chelsea]

It's a mix surely? I don't think it's as simple as an either/or. Yes the team employ the drivers, and their first aim is just to score as many points as possible in each race, but clearly team mates are also rivals and want to finish in front of each other. Also fans tend to be fans of individual drivers rather than teams (possible exception of Ferrari, but I don't see (m)any fans declare themselves to support say Mercedes first and foremost).

If it was solely a team sport you would never see team mates racing, they would either always hold position or if on different stategies the slower one would let the faster one through. However some of the great F1 battles have been between team mates.

It's a fair point that other sports aren't really like this. Cycling maybe comes closest, but the make-up of a team is completely different: you'll have one leader, and the rest of the team built to best support him.

Ideally, like HH I'd like to see team order banned, but I don't think it's possible. It was tried in the past, but found to be pretty much unenforceable. But more than anything else, to bring back some level of excitement there has to be more than one team capable of winning races, better tracks with more overtaking opportunities, and possibly also some way of making following another car less destructive, to allow for more of said opportunities. F1 has become too much about the technology, the gimmicks.

[Jermaine2015]

Congrats to Nico Rosberg the third German world champion or the fourth Finnish world champion

Whilst Rosberg got the good breaks with Hamilton's reliability issues, Hamilton can squarely lay the blame on his own shoulders for losing the championship. In Baku, he was streets ahead of everyone, yet planted it in the wall during qualifying. Had he indeed stuck it on pole and won the race he'd have won the championship by 17 points.

That aside Rosberg's move on Verstappen was worthy of a champion, I was hiding behind my sofa when he went for it as the young Dutchman takes no prisoners.

Ultimately I think Sebastian Vettel could've passed Nico if he wanted to...I feel he decided not to.

Whether Rosberg is a great driver or a good driver, he IS world champion and no one can ever take that away from him. And with the improved relations with Vettel, I think the #6 will be on a red car in 2018.

[Born Slippy]

Excellent race today. Hamilton I think showed his level of skill by controlling the race at virtual walking pace for him, even more so than if he'd just sailed off into the distance. 

The communications with the Mercedes team were simply ludicrous. They've already won the constructors and the drivers - it was just a question of which driver. They surely should have realised that a boring 1-2 was terrible for the sport.

Rosberg is a deserving champion. He made very few errors this season and, whilst he isn't a genius like Hamilton, he's a very solid driver. Hopefully, it sets us up for a great 2017 season.

[dyrewolfe]

Congrats to Nico Rosberg the third German world champion or the fourth Finnish world champion devil

Ultimately I think Sebastian Vettel could've passed Nico if he wanted to...I feel he decided not to.

Both? He has dual nationality, doesn't he?

I thought it was odd that Vettel gave up on the last few laps. I thought it might just have been his tyres giving up. Wearing a tinfoil hat you could think he decided to help his fellow German. Even more so with his comments about Lewis playing "dirty tricks". Yeah, right Seb...like you wouldn't have done exactly the same in his position.  

Rosberg is a deserving champion. He made very few errors this season and, whilst he isn't a genius like Hamilton, he's a very solid driver. Hopefully, it sets us up for a great 2017 season.

Hmm...find it hard to agree with that. But for his reliability issues, Hamilton would have won his 4th title this year. He has had 4 races (I think) where he has either had to start from the back of the grid, had in-race problems, as well as Malaysia, where his engine went bang while he was leading.

If he had had just 1 less failure / issue, his name would have been on the trophy instead.

Agree that Rosberg has been solid and consistent. He has been the best of the rest and maximised his advantage from Lewis' bad luck. He also handled the pressure of the last race well...but once again reminded us that he isn't a real racer by complaining to the team that Lewis was going too slowly for his liking.

So in summary, he did what he needed to, but nothing exceptional.

[Guest]

Rosberg deserves the title for his seven years of service to Mercedes & the depth of work he's undertaken for the team, aiding & helping them transform from an uncompetitive outfit, into a championship winning team. He doesn't solely deserve the title for this years performance though, every single meaningful stat or head to head he has lost, from race wins, qualifying, amount of podium finishes & most laps led.

As for the media reporting Hamilton could get sacked for his actions, how utterly embarrassing.

[Fernando]

I think the only meaningful stat is the one showing him with more points then Lewis after 21 races im afraid John  

Well they could put him on gardening leave due to breach of contract since id expect like all driver's contracts it says to do as the team say if felt like it.

[GSC]

Nico deserves the title because he's been the best overall driver over the entire season. qualify it how you like.

[Mochyn du]

I find it a little sick that all the fanboys and commentators keep on saying how Rosberg is not Hamilton's equal. LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever. He lost the title through a combination of hubris and bad luck yet Nico was good enough to take advantage of those occasions and good for him. It makes him a worthy champion.

Despite all the negativity and insistence from the media and fans alike about LH being far superior then how did he not win the title despite his setbacks? Put simply LH may not be as gifted as you think and Nico a little better than he is given credit for.

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate. Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.

[Guest]

LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

Must of not seen the podium interviews whereby he congratulated Rosberg & shook his hand. Congratulated him in the media pen too.

Vettel just got embarrasingly out-qualified by a 37 year old over an entire season, he also got beat at Red Bull by Ricciardo, hence the swift exit. Great post.

[GSC]

In fairness DC and Webber tore into Lewis after his media interviews later.

[nathan]

In fairness DC and Webber tore into Lewis after his media interviews later.

Which is daft, I'm surprised an ex f1 driver would have that opinion like neither of them would ever do the same thing if it were there own world championship at stake.

F1 is on life support at the moment, everything needs to be done to make it more exciting. Hamilton backing Rosberg up gave us some entertainment.

F1 thinks the best way to make things entertaining is to change the rules just as the other teams are catching Mercedes up. So we'll just have another team well ahead next year until the others catch up.

[nathan]

I find it a little sick that all the fanboys and commentators keep on saying how Rosberg is not Hamilton's equal.  LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.  He lost the title through a combination of hubris and bad luck yet Nico was good enough to take advantage of those occasions and good for him.  It makes him a worthy champion.  

Despite all the negativity and insistence from the media and fans alike about LH being far superior then how did he not win the title despite his setbacks?  Put simply LH may not be as gifted as you think and Nico a little better than he is given credit for.  

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

I think Rosberg is better than he's given credit for, everything else you said is a pile poo

[GSC]

No they tore into him for his post race interview where he came across as a bit of a brat, basically that he should be even slightly gracious to Nico.

[Guest]

Hamilton should be more gracious? What a hypocrite Webber is. He was so gracious in 2013, he spat the dummy out in Malaysia & constantly complained of favouritism. Really ain't got time to listen to a couple of jealous b-rate ex f1 drivers, who have no championships to their name. C4 coverage is pretty dire.

[Mochyn du]

LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

Must HAVE not seen the podium interviews whereby he congratulated Rosberg & shook his hand. Congratulated him in the media pen too.

Vettel just got embarrasingly out-qualified by a 37 year old over an entire season, he also got beat at Red Bull by Ricciardo, hence the swift exit. Great post.

Really! All I heard was Hamilton's extremely false utterings of "yeah Nico did great" but apart from that come up with everything imaginable to make Rosberg's victory seem worthless. He's arrogant and self absorbed but with no charm to go with it. He's the very pinnacle of the modern graceless filth that is elite sportsmen. I used to think Rafael Nadal was the very worst at debasing his opponents in that his defeats always came with injury excuses to take away the shine but Lewis Hamilton is even worse in that he's outwardly hostile and disrespectful to go with it. No-one expects in this day and age of so much money and wealth at stake for opponents to warmly congratulate each other and go for a few pints afterwards but it's time we stopped supporting these wasters quite frankly. They offer nothing to society what with being shoddy role models and avoiding income tax.

[Jermaine2015]

LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

Must of not seen the podium interviews whereby he congratulated Rosberg & shook his hand. Congratulated him in the media pen too.

Vettel just got embarrasingly out-qualified by a 37 year old over an entire season, he also got beat at Red Bull by Ricciardo, hence the swift exit. Great post.

John still creaming over Ricciardo beating Vettel? I'm pretty sure Ricciardo is over it, Vettel is over it.

Hamilton's now lost twice to hand picked number 2 drivers Button and Rosberg, Ricciardo is better than both of them. Doesn't say much about Hamilton does it...

[Guest]

Not creaming over anything, just stated an ignored fact

Hamilton's lost to two world champions, how on earth have you come to the conclusion that Ricciardo is better than them? If anything, Ricciardo looks weaker & weaker by the race....

[GSC]

Been here before multiple times, the blinders don't come off, it's not worth the effort.

[Jermaine2015]

Not creaming over anything, just stated an ignored fact

Hamilton's lost to two world champions, how on earth have you come to the conclusion that Ricciardo is better than them? If anything, Ricciardo looks weaker & weaker by the race....

Whether Button and Rosberg where/became champions, they where selected as number 2s. Hamilton lost to them both. Despite being the undisputed lead driver.

Ricciardo was third in the championship so if he's a weak driver don't what it says about some of the others out there...

[dyrewolfe]

I find it a little sick that all the fanboys and commentators keep on saying how Rosberg is not Hamilton's equal.  LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.  He lost the title through a combination of hubris and bad luck yet Nico was good enough to take advantage of those occasions and good for him.  It makes him a worthy champion.  

Despite all the negativity and insistence from the media and fans alike about LH being far superior then how did he not win the title despite his setbacks?  Put simply LH may not be as gifted as you think and Nico a little better than he is given credit for.  

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

Sorry, not biting. Must try harder...

[GSC]

Rosberg retires

Paging Weirlein?

[Mochyn du]

I find it a little sick that all the fanboys and commentators keep on saying how Rosberg is not Hamilton's equal.  LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.  He lost the title through a combination of hubris and bad luck yet Nico was good enough to take advantage of those occasions and good for him.  It makes him a worthy champion.  

Despite all the negativity and insistence from the media and fans alike about LH being far superior then how did he not win the title despite his setbacks?  Put simply LH may not be as gifted as you think and Nico a little better than he is given credit for.  

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

Sorry, not biting. Must try harder...

I'll take that as you conceding the argument

[Guest]

Not surprised the world reliability champion has retired. Sole goal was a championship & beating Lewis, no other desire to compete & it's too late in his career to build a legacy or beat records. Wehrlein to be promoted you would expect.

[GSC]

Please John, be more bitter. Its more than slightly sad nearly a week after this event

[dyrewolfe]

I find it a little sick that all the fanboys and commentators keep on saying how Rosberg is not Hamilton's equal.  LH has also been disgusting in his acceptance of defeat offering no praise to his rival whatsoever.  He lost the title through a combination of hubris and bad luck yet Nico was good enough to take advantage of those occasions and good for him.  It makes him a worthy champion.  

Despite all the negativity and insistence from the media and fans alike about LH being far superior then how did he not win the title despite his setbacks?  Put simply LH may not be as gifted as you think and Nico a little better than he is given credit for.  

Also legends tend not to lose to their team mate.  Don't remember Vettel ever losing to Webber or Shumacher to Barrichello come to think of it.  

Sorry, not biting. Must try harder...

I'll take that as you conceding the argument

No, take it as me being far too clever to argue with trolls. You can't have a sensible discussion with someone filled with an irrational dislike, as you clearly are.

[Jermaine2015]

John dry those tears...Hamilton probably hoping Mercedes bring Heikki into to make him look better.

[dyrewolfe]

Not surprised the world reliability champion has retired. Sole goal was a championship & beating Lewis, no other desire to compete & it's too late in his career to build a legacy or beat records. Wehrlein to be promoted you would expect.

Well that was quite a bombshell! I would have thought Rosberg would at least stay on next season to see how the new regs pan out. Its not like he hasn't got a few years left in him to try and win another title.

Disagree about it being too late in his career. Alain Prost won his last title in his early Forties IIRC.

Maybe just winning one title was enough for him...maybe he really has had enough of the sport. Then again, unlike Lewis he does now have a wife and kid to support and he has other options away from racing.

I wish him all the best, but tbh I'm not that sorry to see him go, as he was never a real racer. He either led from the front, or relied on strategy or team orders.

[Jermaine2015]

Nico isn't exactly poor is he? He's earned over $40m and his father vast fortune will end up in his lap as well.

[GSC]

Clearly the run in down the stretch took a pretty severe toll mentally, he even said as much after the final race. Doubt competing with Lewis for a world title is much fun either, in the same way being Fernando or Sebastians teammate is likely a pretty draining experience.

Also, theres something to be said for going out on top. Schumacher never should've come back for the Merc stint.

[GSC]

I'm not entirely convinced Lewis wouldn't be making the same announcement if he had won. Assumed his motivation for next season he lacked last year would be proving the point to Nico, thats now off the table.

Solves a couple of headaches for Toto, future must be now in the form of Weirlein, Fernando is the only feasible big name option and hes nothing more than a short term fix. And if Lewis vs Nico turned toxic, Lewis vs Fernando II could make that seem diplomatic.

[GSC]

To be clear, Lewis - Fernando would be an early xmas present, but I can't imagine it'd happen

[dyrewolfe]

Nico isn't exactly poor is he? He's earned over $40m and his father vast fortune will end up in his lap as well.

When I said "support" I meant as in being there for them, rather than financially. Maybe he just wants to make sure he's around to see his kid grow up. Accidents like Bianchi's are undoubtedly a sobering reminder that this is still a high risk sport.

[dyrewolfe]

To be clear, Lewis - Fernando would be an early xmas present, but I can't imagine it'd happen

I think Fernando might be up for it...though there's no guarantee Mercedes will be top dogs next season, but I can't see Wolff swapping his Lewis - Nico headaches for Lewis - Fernando ones. Think he'll be quite happy with a junior driver who is just happy to be driving for a big team.

[GSC]

Fernando would probably pay his way out of McLaren to join Merc. All he cares about is number 3

[Jermaine2015]

Vettel has the same break clause he had a red bull eg if he's not in top 3 in the final standings he can quit. #justsaying

[GSC]

Doubt Toto would sign him either for the same reasons.

Has a chance to implement a true #1/#2 driver hierarchy

[Jermaine2015]

Doubt Toto would sign him either for the same reasons.

Has a chance to implement a true #1/#2 driver hierarchy

Depends on what's best for business. Having a German reigning world champion isn't an option at present. Having a four time German world champion ticks a few boxes that Rosberg's retirement stops.

[Jermaine2015]

Let's be honest though Bottas is managed by Wolff, so Mercedes will nick him and offset Williams' loss by giving them Werhlein on loan

[Mad for Chelsea]

Well I for one didn't see that one coming, though I can understand the decision certainly. Be interesting to see who Mercedes bring in now - even with new regs coming in you'd think it's more a case of who they want/can afford, than who wants to come. Wehrlein seems a steady enough option, has been impressive in qualifying this year certainly.

[GSC]

Doubt Toto would sign him either for the same reasons.

Has a chance to implement a true #1/#2 driver hierarchy

Depends on what's best for business. Having a German reigning world champion isn't an option at present. Having a four time German world champion ticks a few boxes that Rosberg's retirement stops.

We don't have a German GP next year despite Nico winning this year, I suspect you're overstating the impact.

Certainly Mercedes emulating RB's young driver system and promoting talent from within would be popular with shareholders.

[GSC]

Personaly I wouldn't be that fussed by Bottas, think his star has dipped from a couple of years ago. For me I'd either be going for a superstar or putting a young exciting talent like Wehrlein in the car.

[Jermaine2015]

Totally disagree regarding the red bull driver program and the Mercedes program. Red Bull have promoted Vettel, Ricciardo and Verstappen. These three are light years ahead of Ocon and Wehrlein. Factoring in Sainz Jr, Kvyat and Gasly and still the Mercedes babies aren't close

[GSC]

They aren't, but being seen to bring through their own drivers would be seen in a favorable light.

[Jermaine2015]

They aren't, but being seen to bring through their own drivers would be seen in a favorable light.

But are either Wehrlein or Ocon ready? Hamilton will trounce either of them and they could be mentally gone.

Signing Alonso isn't a backwards step, if indeed Red Bull are genuine contenders in 2017, Mercedes will need a strong driver in the other car.

[GSC]

I didn't say Alonso would be a backwards step but Merc may favour a clear 1-2 in the Championship. very easy to see Lewis and Fernandos battle tripping up Merc

[CaledonianCraig]

Well that came as a big surprise to me. The question is now who will be the replacement at such a late stage? The usual candidates are being bandied around.

Fernando Alonso - I can't see this happening as Alonso is contracted to McLaren and Alonso and Hamilton would make the Hamilton/Rosberg scrapes and tension seem mild in comparison to what would happen with Alonso joining the team. Mercedes won't want to go down that road again and Hamilton wouldn't want Alonso as team-mate.

Seb Vettel - No doubt he would love the drive but again he is contracted to Ferrari and would want to be No 1 at that team which Hamilton would not agree to. Both are similarly win-orientated and neither would be willing to yield to each other. Another recipe for disaster and therefore a no no.

Valteri Bottas - Perhaps the most obvious choice. Has ties with Toto Woolf and unlikely to cause as much waves as Alonso and Vettel. Also under contract but Williams would welcome the mega money they'd get for letting Bottas go.

Others mentioned in the media are far less experienced such as Wehrlein and Ocon but can't see that happening. It is too soon for them to land such a high profile drive.

[Jermaine2015]

Bottas wouldn't cost too much to get out of his contract, factoring in Mercedes loaning Williams Wehrlein and discounted engines. But is Bottas good enough to help Mercedes retain the WCC? I doubt it.

[CaledonianCraig]

Bottas wouldn't cost too much to get out of his contract, factoring in Mercedes loaning Williams Wehrlein and discounted engines. But is Bottas good enough to help Mercedes retain the WCC? I doubt it.

Mercedes this year won the constructors title by almost 300 points. Bottas may return less points than Rosberg but 300 points is a mammoth cushion. Sure it is new regs next year and hopefully that will shake things up but I am sure Mercedes would prefer a more settled and calm partnership which Hamilton and Bottas would offer (plus it wouldn't cost too much) rather than an Alonso or Vettel.

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