5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

by **Crimey** Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Also, considering mine and pretty much everybody's doubts Mane has been a fantastic signing.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:28 am

Not sure Mourinho is helping him, regardless.

We'll have him on loan next year in the championship

by Atila Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:54 pm

GSC wrote:Danny Mills is a pillock

One might suspect Shaw is paying the price for turning down Chelsea for United

What does this mean?

From what I remember, Chelsea didn't want him and Mourinho was the manager then.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:03 pm

Helped wanted him but wouldn't pay what he demanded

by Atila Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:11 pm

They didn't want him enough so Shaw did not turn them down. They turned Shaw down.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:52 pm

It's a bit of a mixed message that. They will feel his demands were basically turning them down

by Guest Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:49 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Utd have won just 40% of their home games this season - worst % of wins at home in the league since 73/74.

They ain't gonna get top four

all eggs in the EL basket for Mourinho now

by Atila Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:01 pm

Just listening to a commentator say how Everton must be "gutted" for United to equalize so late in the game. Well, now Everton know how the United players felt when Everton got a late penalty the last time they played and got a 1-1 draw.

It's funny how sometimes some things even themselves out. Very Happy

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:19 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Utd have won just 40% of their home games this season - worst % of wins at home in the league since 73/74.

They ain't gonna get top four

Yet we're only six points off Liverpool with two games in hand.

I think today reminds us of the phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Games in hand mean little when you keep showing such propensity to mess them up. Or, more exactly, to draw them.

by Ent Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:29 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Utd have won just 40% of their home games this season - worst % of wins at home in the league since 73/74.

They ain't gonna get top four

Yet we're only six points off Liverpool with two games in hand.

I think today reminds us of the phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Games in hand mean little when you keep showing such propensity to mess them up. Or, more exactly, to draw them.

Yes and no, after the weekend it was 8 behind with 2 games in hand and tonight was not one of the games in hand.

United can barely create a chance never mind score a goal. 6 home league games this season, 5 goals and 1 win - relegation form really.

Big decision to be made in the summer, squad vs manager - cheaper to change the manager yet again but the quality of player brought in since Ferguson left has been very poor despite the huge outlay.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:26 pm

Ent wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Utd have won just 40% of their home games this season - worst % of wins at home in the league since 73/74.

They ain't gonna get top four

Yet we're only six points off Liverpool with two games in hand.

I think today reminds us of the phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Games in hand mean little when you keep showing such propensity to mess them up. Or, more exactly, to draw them.

Yes and no, after the weekend it was 8 behind with 2 games in hand and tonight was not one of the games in hand.

United can barely create a chance never mind score a goal. 6 home league games this season, 5 goals and 1 win - relegation form really.

Big decision to be made in the summer, squad vs manager - cheaper to change the manager yet again but the quality of player brought in since Ferguson left has been very poor despite the huge outlay.

Yeah, that response doesn't cut it. Liverpool have a points tally you want to have, and you didn't win at home against opposition they just beat. All well and good saying you have those games in hand, but it's results like today and at the weekend that are why people don't think those games in hand are as big a deal as HH's confidence suggests they are.

As of today, you are 5 points and 8 goals behind having played one game less. It is undoubtedly better to have the points than the games, especially when winning the games proves such a struggle.

by Ent Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:03 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Ent wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Utd have won just 40% of their home games this season - worst % of wins at home in the league since 73/74.

They ain't gonna get top four

Yet we're only six points off Liverpool with two games in hand.

I think today reminds us of the phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Games in hand mean little when you keep showing such propensity to mess them up. Or, more exactly, to draw them.

Yes and no, after the weekend it was 8 behind with 2 games in hand and tonight was not one of the games in hand.

United can barely create a chance never mind score a goal. 6 home league games this season, 5 goals and 1 win - relegation form really.

Big decision to be made in the summer, squad vs manager - cheaper to change the manager yet again but the quality of player brought in since Ferguson left has been very poor despite the huge outlay.

Yeah, that response doesn't cut it. Liverpool have a points tally you want to have, and you didn't win at home against opposition they just beat. All well and good saying you have those games in hand, but it's results like today and at the weekend that are why people don't think those games in hand are as big a deal as HH's confidence suggests they are.

As of today, you are 5 points and 8 goals behind having played one game less. It is undoubtedly better to have the points than the games, especially when winning the games proves such a struggle.

1. I disagree, top four was unlikely before the weekend given the games in hand were away to Southampton and city and given united have to play arsenal, chelsea and spurs too. Haven't actually played any of the games in hand so it is a moot point e.g. had we won every game up until those games in hand it would seem more likely they would be won.

2. Depends on the games and the points difference doesn't it? For example I'd rather have a home game in hand against a lower half team than be one point ahead. (Generally speaking...)

United are dire to watch currently, no clue how to attack - this is probably worse than LVGs reign so far.

I think Mourinho will go in the summer, we'll probably lose to any of the half decent sides left in the Europa league and he won't have any credibility if he misses the top four having had so long to prepare for the job.

A long period in the doldrums beckons a la Liverpool.

Credit to the club, they went big this year in terms of manager and transfers - unfortunately the idiocy of appointing Moyes has left a long and lasting impact on the club.

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:33 am

Too easy to pin it all on Moyes.

United failed him as much as he failed them.

Can't see José leaving, but United need a clear and cohesive strategy for the entire club. Seems SAF was the glue that held it all together and without him the club has splintered into different directions

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:58 am

Yeah not being funny but to blame it all on Moyes, when we're two manages and about 500 million in transfers down the line is just a bit silly

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:24 am

I mean managers like Avram Grant and RDM have been to CL finals. You'd struggle to convince me that Moyes is worse than either. He needed both time and backing from upper management.

He got neither and was asked to succeed with an aging mediocre squad that resisted any attempts to move on from SAF's methods, was given 1 new player of note on deadline day and started against the backdrop of United winning the poorest PL I can remember

by Ent Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:35 am

Forget last years PL?

Moyes undid 2 decades of work by Fergie in months, ask any united fan what they think of him - his reign is the worst in managerial history, literally could not have done a worse job - did everything wrong.

He's a crap manager as his two jobs since united have shown. Had he made 4th he would have got time, he failed and his legacy still scars the club.

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:46 am

That really does nothing but reinforce the stereotype that United fans are spoilt princesses.

The club had to move away from SAF's methods. As seen by every former player or staff member that's gone from working under him to managing their own team, replicating his methods is impossible and part of his greatness. United needed a full overhaul, whether Moyes was ever up to the task was redundant, United never gave him a chance.

As for his legacy still scarring the club, that's complete garbage. He s lumbered the club with Fellaini and Mata, otherwise known as 2 of United's most trusted players under LVG and Jose. LVG spent major money on the likes of Depay and Di Maria. Pogba is paid the GDP of a small nation to wander around midfield doing very little. United being completely reliant on a 35 year old striker while Rashford and Martial are sent to purgatory is nothing to do with Moyes.

LVG and Mourinhos underachievement has very little to do with the Moyes reign and really speaks more to a greater issue higher up.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:55 am

Games in hand aren't just the designated games you didn't play. Look at the table right now and you don't have two in hand, so regardless of what the specific games missed were, you have caught up one and screwed it.

And the Moyes being worst managerial reign in history is just funny.

by Guest Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:39 pm

Lol, we don't mind drawing vs Everton, but if we beat Southampton in that specific game in hand, then we're in business. Embarrassing stuff.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:43 pm

It's more infuriating this year because we started to show some genuine promise but it's reverted back to being terrible again the past month. I personally think Mourinho is putting too much effort into the Europa League and it's affecting our league form too much as is the constant chopping and changing, there doesn't seem to be any consistency in selection.

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:11 pm

I must admit, I didn't expect to see the Mourinho Madrid and Chelsea players tuned out because he's a naughty naughty boy so early in his tenure.

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm

I do wonder how much longer Mourinhos club managerial career will go on for.

He looks more and more fed up with every job he takes on.

by Jermaine2015 Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Think it's time Manchester United fans forget about the Ferguson days. The 4-4-1-1 days are gone. Mourinho is a famed defensive manager. With his current crop of attacking players misfiring(apart from Zlatan), prehaps it would be more advisable to play with a system that employs wing backs as the squad doesn't really have any real wingers. Martial and Rashford aren't very good on the wings. Mkhitaryan is better off the front man. If he can find some love, Luke Shaw at left wing back adds natural width and good crossing ability. On the right Valencia fits the bill.

by compelling and rich Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:32 pm

mourinho has become a parody of himself, at porto chelsea and madrid where he had great success his teams were fantastic attacking sides. since then feels like hes become to sucked into the "defensive master" who can park the bus anywhere. now he sucks the attacking threat out of players and is more concern in how they track back. sold players like mata when he was chelseas best player because of this.

likes of martial and rashford are regressing under him, mikt isnt getting a look in despite him often looking like our most creative player. dont remember robben, ronaldo ever tracking back in thier career, both of whom did great under mourinho.

not sure whats going on with pogba, lad just looks clueless to me. big physical specimen with a pass but no ability to read a game. often finds himslef not in the game because of this and puts team mates under pressure

finally really dont think he understands how to deal with young players, fergie was the best at it so we as united fans have seen how it should be done and i never saw fergie single out young players and hang them out to dry like mourinho has done with shaw and martial this season. dont think that tactic will ever work

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:34 pm

Utd deserved to beat Everton and WBA and half the teams they have drawn against...Same with City.against Spurs..Middlesborough and others.

Chelsea have been winning these types of games. It is one of them things..

People like ever over reacting to these things....

Pep and Jose are smart enough to see where they are lacking.

Be patient

by **Hero** Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:47 pm

For once I agree with Truss on this, sure there's been far too many draws over the course of the season but I certainly don't to see another change at the helm come the summer.

by compelling and rich Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:48 pm

yeah does sound like im writing him off already. which im not just very frustrating to watch at the moment. always said you cant judge a manager on their first season. although will admit that i did on moyes after one year but that was a truely awful year. he didnt do anything right and everyone who watched us saw he was a rabbit caught in the headlights. under mourinho were not far off but do feel we are not good enough attacking wise, but was the case under lvg for couple of seasons and that slow dire build up is still instilled in a team that he pretty much built

by Fernando Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:57 pm

It's harsh to blame Moyes for United's failures. They've been needing an overhaul since Fergie left. I like Jose but im not convinced even this far down the line he knows what he's best side is yet. At Chelsea the same players played week in week out and rotated for rest. Id be surprised if he's played the same side more then 5 times this season altogether always seems to be 1 change or another.

by Guest Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:03 pm

A big over-reaction, for me. don't honestly think top 4 was going to be achieved, playing strong sides in the EL. Just over a month ago, United were lifting the LC & everything was rosy, the dressing room united, a massive (still) unbeaten run in the PL & progress into the QF of the EL. United have issues in final third, but given another window, can be addressed. You might have two trophies on the shelf in a month's time & CL football for 2017/18. The way some people are going on, you'd think it's a crisis.

the shaw stuff is minor, hyped because of his nationality & fee. shaw has always had ? over his commitment, attitude & fitness. nothing new there. the broken leg should of made him re-evaluate his whole mindset about football & how lucky he is to be in this profession. Seems like nothing has changed & his close association with depay would of also irked JM, at a time when he should of been completely focused on football & understanding what his new manager wanted from him.

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:38 pm

Eh. Conte has worked out very quickly how to switch on players like Hazard, Pedro, Costa etc that Jose couldn't last year, and similarly this year for United only Ibra has really shone up front, and that's not exactly a great feat. That's making a lot of difference in these right games.

I'd also say Chelsea are far more dynamic in the last third. United have a lot of shots and possession, but don't seem to be creating that many great chances.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:35 pm

I don't think there's much crisis either and any talk of replacing Hose already is bonkers

by GSC Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:07 pm

In other news, Liverpool have been banned from signing academy players for a year with a further year suspended

by Holymiky Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:44 pm

I think criticism of Moyes is ok because he is obviously in charge but i think a little unfair. I think most people would struggle with that Sunderland squad. The best player is Defoe by a long stretch.

by compelling and rich Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:13 pm

liverpool doing there usual, playing well in their big games then awful against the lesser sides

by Guest Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:17 pm

Wijnaldum always delivers at home Laugh

Ben Gibson showcasing why he's not in the top 3 CB's in the PL Laugh

by **owen10ozzy** Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:28 pm

Haha just about to post...hes stitched me up a kipper! Curse of my comments...very very poor! Ill be honest ive watched Boro play around 50 times in last two seasons...not once have I have ever seen Gibson have as poor a game!

by compelling and rich Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:30 pm

west ham fans wont be liking tonights scores so far

by **owen10ozzy** Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:59 pm

Well put a fork in us because we are down, no less than we deserve if I'm honest. As solid as we were under Karbala we delivered too little up top. Tonight has shown the key to finding a balance between being too defensive and too attack minded.

In all of this, and it stings to even say it, I lay the blame at mostly one door. Steve Gibson- legend that he is...he kept faith in Karanka for too long...then when he finally sacked him he handed the reigns to a man who has no experience and who has never even won a game in temporary charge of the club. The travesty is he even had an almost two week break to bring someone in!

I only hope we learnt our lessons from last time and we are better equipped to bounce back straight away.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:29 pm

Disappointing result for City...

Stick with Pep though...Just needs a leader in defence..Kompany hopefully if not look around.

Like Utd a little will be a lot.

by Guest Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:28 pm

I don't think Man Utd are good enough for top four. Chelsea will win the Premiership. Tottenham will be in the top four for the second season - Pochettino is cementing Spurs as a top four side, despite increase spend from other sides also competing for the top four. That then makes two from Liverpool, Man City and Arsenal. I think Man City have enough about them to finish top four. That makes it between Liverpool and Arsenal for the fourth place. Next season might be even more exciting with Everton looking like they are building a good side.

With the relegation sides - Sunderland and Middlesbrough are gonners in my opinion. Then I think it will be one from four from Swansea, Hull, Crystal Palace and West Ham. But it is difficult to call - some have easier final games than others.

With the three teams that will be relegated - are they going to be in a good position to rebound back into the premiership? Middlesbrough having got rid of Karanka, the person who got them up into the premiership, look most in trouble if relegated. I don't understand why they got rid of him and replaced him with nobody. Maybe some teams just have to accept the possibility of being a yoyo club before getting a foothold in the premiership. By getting rid of the person who got them promoted, Middlesbrough may not be able to get back up for sometime.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:07 am

Just ticking over for that relegation

by lfc91 Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:27 am

Only thing that surprised me about the game last night that was we didn't lose it. Sadly everyone and their dog knew what the script for that game was going to be. Not seeing a game out at home to a relegation threatened team isn't a great advert for a team chasing top 4.

Feel bad for Klopp. On the one hand people point to the sub of coutinho (who was apparently ill) for another CB as inviting pressure when we were in the ascendancy. On the other, how can Klopp be expected to plan for ridiculous individual errors? The back pass from Winajdum which was preceded by a couple more individual poor bits of play. Then a simple long through into our box (which admittedly is never simple for us) which there were a few opportunities to clear before a striker recieves the ball with his back against a defender and easily turns to put it in the net. So poor...

As for the top for race, on paper I would say we look more likely than United/Arsenal. Personally looking at our fixtures/our injury list & the seemingly team wide lack of testicles under pressure, I think we are relying on United and Arsenal losing 3/4 of the remaining games for us to make it..

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:05 am

lfc91 wrote:Only thing that surprised me about the game last night that was we didn't lose it. Sadly everyone and their dog knew what the script for that game was going to be. Not seeing a game out at home to a relegation threatened team isn't a great advert for a team chasing top 4.

Feel bad for Klopp. On the one hand people point to the sub of coutinho (who was apparently ill) for another CB as inviting pressure when we were in the ascendancy. On the other, how can Klopp be expected to plan for ridiculous individual errors? The back pass from Winajdum which was preceded by a couple more individual poor bits of play. Then a simple long through into our box (which admittedly is never simple for us) which there were a few opportunities to clear before a striker recieves the ball with his back against a defender and easily turns to put it in the net. So poor...

As for the top for race, on paper I would say we look more likely than United/Arsenal. Personally looking at our fixtures/our injury list & the seemingly team wide lack of testicles under pressure, I think we are relying on United and Arsenal losing 3/4 of the remaining games for us to make it..

Maybe, just maybe, loaning out your best CB to Crystal Palace wasn't a good idea...

by lfc91 Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:18 am

Yes never thought that was a great idea. Not when Matip is injury prone and Klavan is 3rd choice... However Klopp clearly had his reasons, and I am more inclined to side with the manager than with the player who was reportedly acting like a top class A-hole.

Always said if he wanted Sahko gone then sell him and replace him ffs! Loan doesn't help us at all (Unless you count probably helping his value when we do come to sell him).

by **Crimey** Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:17 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
lfc91 wrote:Only thing that surprised me about the game last night that was we didn't lose it. Sadly everyone and their dog knew what the script for that game was going to be. Not seeing a game out at home to a relegation threatened team isn't a great advert for a team chasing top 4.

Feel bad for Klopp. On the one hand people point to the sub of coutinho (who was apparently ill) for another CB as inviting pressure when we were in the ascendancy. On the other, how can Klopp be expected to plan for ridiculous individual errors? The back pass from Winajdum which was preceded by a couple more individual poor bits of play. Then a simple long through into our box (which admittedly is never simple for us) which there were a few opportunities to clear before a striker recieves the ball with his back against a defender and easily turns to put it in the net. So poor...

As for the top for race, on paper I would say we look more likely than United/Arsenal. Personally looking at our fixtures/our injury list & the seemingly team wide lack of testicles under pressure, I think we are relying on United and Arsenal losing 3/4 of the remaining games for us to make it..

Maybe, just maybe, loaning out your best CB to Crystal Palace wasn't a good idea...

Except Sakho hasn't ever been Liverpool's centre back. He wasn't in his first year, he wasn't in 14/15, he wasn't in 15/16 and he wasn't going to be this year.

by lfc91 Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:37 am

Crimey wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
lfc91 wrote:Only thing that surprised me about the game last night that was we didn't lose it. Sadly everyone and their dog knew what the script for that game was going to be. Not seeing a game out at home to a relegation threatened team isn't a great advert for a team chasing top 4.

Feel bad for Klopp. On the one hand people point to the sub of coutinho (who was apparently ill) for another CB as inviting pressure when we were in the ascendancy. On the other, how can Klopp be expected to plan for ridiculous individual errors? The back pass from Winajdum which was preceded by a couple more individual poor bits of play. Then a simple long through into our box (which admittedly is never simple for us) which there were a few opportunities to clear before a striker recieves the ball with his back against a defender and easily turns to put it in the net. So poor...

As for the top for race, on paper I would say we look more likely than United/Arsenal. Personally looking at our fixtures/our injury list & the seemingly team wide lack of testicles under pressure, I think we are relying on United and Arsenal losing 3/4 of the remaining games for us to make it..

Maybe, just maybe, loaning out your best CB to Crystal Palace wasn't a good idea...

Except Sakho hasn't ever been Liverpool's centre back. He wasn't in his first year, he wasn't in 14/15, he wasn't in 15/16 and he wasn't going to be this year.

Obviously that one is subjective. I personally thought he was our best CB before the arrival of Matip.

by Ent Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:54 am

Those 2 home draws look even worse now given last nights results, still an outside chance if we can get some form together and actually score some goals (seems unlikely) but would be above city if win game in hand and beat them.

Chelsea and Spurs nailed on for top 2, the rest still up for grabs. Liverpool, City and Arsenal can't defend, united can't score. Going to be interesting as Arsenal always, always make a run at the top four come April.

Mourinho and Guardiola not impressing this year, is the cult of the super coach fading or will they come good next season?

by GSC Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:03 am

Probably fair to term Guardiolas city a work in progress, he's got to take away some lessons from this season and prove he can adapt to answer them.

José, can he switch on and build a young team. United still need to shift a lot of dead wood but they've got a better squad than they've shown this season.

by daraghj82 Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:22 am

good results for arsenal last night with pool dropping pts and city losing, think Swansea and hull might both escape the drop with palace going down instead

by Nico the gman Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:31 am

Just John wrote:Wijnaldum always delivers at home

Ben Gibson showcasing why he's not in the top 3 CB's in the PL

Yeh that's the one poor game he's had all season, could be worse he could have cost £50 million and made numerous mistakes. Thank god these other so called top CB's don't have any bad games in a season.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:14 pm

Nico the gman wrote:
Just John wrote:Wijnaldum always delivers at home

Ben Gibson showcasing why he's not in the top 3 CB's in the PL

Yeh that's the one poor game he's had all season, could be worse he could have cost £50 million and made numerous mistakes. Thank god these other so called top CB's don't have any bad games in a season.

No coincidence that in the first game Middlesborough actually attack this season he is exposed as not actually being as good as when they have everyone camped 25 yards from their goal

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