Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

by tigertattie Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 Jessie10

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 Glasgo10

Edinburgh & Glasgow Warriors

A Not So Brief History of Time-Wasting (click to show/hide):

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 NfPzXkF

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 NfPzXkF

Guinness Pro12

1872 Cup

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 Trophy

Champions Runner up
Edinburgh Glasgow Warriors
Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRwKYyik1ZsD3_NYcbnfefbOA7hTaw1Oo_88AYpdNDsajawQmV

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRwKYyik1ZsD3_NYcbnfefbOA7hTaw1Oo_88AYpdNDsajawQmV

Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal) - Page 14 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnVncYalRPIL7Z-Ia2Em4LrCX8uZulmt1PKHCS4z5p5kPxIEYs

1872 Cup - Past Results (click to show/hide):

2007–08
28 December 2007, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 35–31 Glasgow Warriors
11 April 2008, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 23–14 Edinburgh
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 54–49

2008–09
26 December 2008, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 39–6 Glasgow Warriors
2 January 2009, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 25–20 Edinburgh
Winner: Edinburgh 59–31

2009–10
27 December 2009, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 25–12 Edinburgh
2 January 2010, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 15–22 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 47–27

2010–11
27 December 2010, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 30–18 Edinburgh
2 January 2011, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 28–17 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 47–46

2011–12
26 December 2011, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 23–23 Glasgow Warriors
1 January 2012, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 17–12 Edinburgh
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 40–35

2012–13
21 December 2012, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 23–14 Edinburgh
29 December 2012, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 17–21 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 44–31

2013–14
26 December 2013, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 16–20 Glasgow Warriors
26 April 2014, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 37–34 Edinburgh (postponed from 1st Jan due to waterlogged pitch)
Winner: Glasgow 57–50

2014–15
27 December 2014, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 16–6 Edinburgh
2 January 2015, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 20–8 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Edinburgh 26–24

2015–16
27 December 2015, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 23–11 Glasgow Warriors
2 January 2016, Murrayfield Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 11–14 Edinburgh (moved from Scotstoun due to waterlogged pitch)
Winner: Edinburgh 37–22

Winners tally
Glasgow Warriors - 6
Edinburgh - 3

Some tidying up could be required as I'm no a PC wizz!

PS - Any player from Ayr is not necessarily "World class"

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:21 pm

cakeordeath wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I've seen the gif of the Strauss tackle. It isn't late.

Why are surprised that there are plenty of gifs that disprove his claim? Probably because you know this is just Munster trying to divert attention from their HIA dereliction.

There is no tactic that was employed. Murray didn't move (by his own admission) after his head knock. That means he should have automatically been removed.

A single picture proves nothing. The game was televised. Since Munster have made this claim they need to back it up with video evidence. If they can prove that his was the case then action should be taken against Glasgow. If however there is no evidence to prove that this happens then Munster should be punished.

Exactly. And I'm yet to see anything remotely close to evidence to support Murray's claim.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:22 pm

Sin é wrote:
cakeordeath wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I've seen the gif of the Strauss tackle. It isn't late.

Why are surprised that there are plenty of gifs that disprove his claim? Probably because you know this is just Munster trying to divert attention from their HIA dereliction.

There is no tactic that was employed. Murray didn't move (by his own admission) after his head knock. That means he should have automatically been removed.

A single picture proves nothing. The game was televised. Since Munster have made this claim they need to back it up with video evidence. If they can prove that his was the case then action should be taken against Glasgow. If however there is no evidence to prove that this happens then Munster should be punished.

Murray Kinsella on twitter has a couple of gifs (posted around 15th Jan) including it happening to the Treviso scrumhalf who was injured in a league game against Glasgow. One of Munster's other scrumhalfs was also caught and injured in a league game earlier this year.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

That's ex Munster player Kinsella and none of his gifs show anything amiss.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:24 pm

PhilBB wrote:If it's not late, it's a legitimate tackle so there should be no moan.

I've seen the gif of the tackle shown in the pic. There's nothing wrong with it.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/1-19-2017/oO68YK.gif

It maybe legitimate, but its dangerous. High tackles used be legitimate once-upon-a-time.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:26 pm

There's nothing dangerous in that Strauss tackle, in the context of any other non-penalty rugby tackle, and anybody with a shred of honesty would admit that.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:There's nothing dangerous in that Strauss tackle, in the context of any other non-penalty rugby tackle, and anybody with a shred of honesty would admit that.

I couldn't be arsed dealing with you. So goodbye. thumbsup

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:35 pm

So there's no shred of honesty in you.

Well, I'm shocked.

by **George Carlin** Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:38 pm

Sin é wrote:You might be interested in this:

I'm properly p*ssed off about that. I don't see any benefit in charging down someone's standing leg.'
Conor Murray said he is lucky not to have suffered a serious injury last Saturday.

http://www.the42.ie/conor-murray-munster-glasgow-3193305-Jan2017/

It's difficult to see what was wrong with that, to be honest.

The new tackle laws mean that you cannot go high and Strauss was fully committed to the tackle and could have blocked the kick.

I have no problem with players needing to be protected and clubs needing to stand by their players, but I really don't understand that as a complaint.

It's also quite odd to blame the management for demanding institutional use of a particular tackling technique. Unless you're trying a group choke tackle, individual confrontations on the field don't work like that.

Murray elected to kick the ball away and the trailing leg was all that was left.

I'm trying to be even handed about this, but I just don't get it.

I also agree that if Murray really believes he was illegally treated, then it should be referred to the citing commissioner for the game.

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:40 pm

Didn't see the game live, but based on the chat here, is the complaint that Strauss tackled Murray round the legs?

I imagine I'm missing something.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:42 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Didn't see the game live, but based on the chat here, is the complaint that Strauss tackled Murray round the legs?

I imagine I'm missing something.

The desperate attempt to divert attention for Murray not being removed for being stationery after a suspected concussion.

Munster Rugby. The height of honesty

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:44 pm

GC - fair play to you. I think the problem is that a low tackle when someone is standing on one leg is dangerous. The kicker is vulnerable with just one foot on the ground as they can't protect themselves - sort of like a player going for high ball need to be protected.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:45 pm

Sin é wrote:GC - fair play to you. I think the problem is that a low tackle when someone is standing on one leg is dangerous. The kicker is vulnerable with just one foot on the ground as they can't protect themselves - sort of like a player going for high ball need to be protected.

The same applies when the player is running.

This really, really is desperate from you. There is nothing wrong with that tackle. Nothing.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:47 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Didn't see the game live, but based on the chat here, is the complaint that Strauss tackled Murray round the legs?

I imagine I'm missing something.

Thats exactly it. Low tackles with Scrum Half standing on one leg.

Easily solved with a law saying they can't be tackled by the legs (tackle must be waist high and wrapped).

by Hazel Sapling Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:51 pm

Well this is unique for a Scottish thread.

You are allowed to tackle someone in the act of kicking. One should not go through the standing leg unless you are able to catch both legs by wrapping if you want to avoid injury. The Gray tackle was low and the more concerning one. Strauss's was fine. Tackled higher on the leg and did more to try to wrap the other leg.

If he is accusing people of dodgy tactics because one tackle was misplaced, I think he is grasping at straws. Every team tries to disrupt the 9 and when the main kicker is the 9, he is going to receive more attention. It is up to the Munster players to organise in a way to stop that in clear kicking situations. Leaving a 9 as much time as he wants to kick and allowing the other team an extra man in the chase (rather than guarding) would be counterproductive for an opponent. If the kicking team want time, they place the extra man; if they want a better chase, the kick needs to be quick.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:58 pm

Hazel - it wasn't one tackle. Its been happening in every game Munster have played v Glasgow this season (3 games so far). Murray Kinsella also produced a snippet of it happening against Treviso where the scrumhalf was injured.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:59 pm

Kinsella's gifs show no illegal tackles.

Munster cannot present one piece of evidence to show an illegal or dangerous tackle.

by demosthenes Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:59 pm

Sin é wrote:GC - fair play to you. I think the problem is that a low tackle when someone is standing on one leg is dangerous. The kicker is vulnerable with just one foot on the ground as they can't protect themselves - sort of like a player going for high ball need to be protected.

I do see the analogy, and don't disagree that there is an element of risk to a player on one leg, but the problem is essentially where do you draw the line. Any tackle is potentially dangerous. The 'player in the air' scenario is however NOT equivalent. It is not just dangerous, it is potentially lethal, and so quite rightly severely sanctioned.

by demosthenes Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:02 pm

Sin é wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Didn't see the game live, but based on the chat here, is the complaint that Strauss tackled Murray round the legs?

I imagine I'm missing something.

Thats exactly it. Low tackles with Scrum Half standing on one leg.

Easily solved with a law saying they can't be tackled by the legs (tackle must be waist high and wrapped).

But why then restrict it to tackles on the scrum-half? So be careful what you wish for!

by **RDW** Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

by demosthenes Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Well this is unique for a Scottish thread.

You are allowed to tackle someone in the act of kicking. One should not go through the standing leg unless you are able to catch both legs by wrapping if you want to avoid injury. The Gray tackle was low and the more concerning one. Strauss's was fine. Tackled higher on the leg and did more to try to wrap the other leg.

If he is accusing people of dodgy tactics because one tackle was misplaced, I think he is grasping at straws. Every team tries to disrupt the 9 and when the main kicker is the 9, he is going to receive more attention. It is up to the Munster players to organise in a way to stop that in clear kicking situations. Leaving a 9 as much time as he wants to kick and allowing the other team an extra man in the chase (rather than guarding) would be counterproductive for an opponent. If the kicking team want time, they place the extra man; if they want a better chase, the kick needs to be quick.

Just so. If the attacking team post sufficient guards, no defensive player will be able to get through in time. By which time the kicker will have the ball away and (probably) be back into running mode. And if he is tackled late, the current laws have enough sanction.

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:07 pm

Sin é wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Didn't see the game live, but based on the chat here, is the complaint that Strauss tackled Murray round the legs?

I imagine I'm missing something.

Thats exactly it. Low tackles with Scrum Half standing on one leg.

Easily solved with a law saying they can't be tackled by the legs (tackle must be waist high and wrapped).

But, surely that risk exists pretty much any time a player has the ball, regardless of if they are the scrum half kicking it or not?

Personally this seems a bit silly, I mean if a rugby player (any player) have one or both feet planted (Scotland players are particularly fond of this static attacking style) and they're tackled round the legs then there is a risk. So does that mean that every tackle now needs to be exactly round the waist? If so, there are going to a lot of cards and very few completed tackles

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:08 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

You can magnify that bringing the game into disrepute by there being no evidence to support his accusation and the poor attention that Munster gave to the HIA protocols when Murray was motionless.

It's a diversion tactic. And it stinks.

This is as bad as Triggs getting three weeks for blatant gouging.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:10 pm

demosthenes wrote:
Sin é wrote:GC - fair play to you. I think the problem is that a low tackle when someone is standing on one leg is dangerous. The kicker is vulnerable with just one foot on the ground as they can't protect themselves - sort of like a player going for high ball need to be protected.

I do see the analogy, and don't disagree that there is an element of risk to a player on one leg, but the problem is essentially where do you draw the line. Any tackle is potentially dangerous. The 'player in the air' scenario is however NOT equivalent. It is not just dangerous, it is potentially lethal, and so quite rightly severely sanctioned.

The laws keep evolving (i.e., zero tolerance for high tackles). I can't see it being particularly difficult to stop high or low tackles on players in vulnerable situations depending on the circumstances.

by **BigGee** Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

I absolutely agree with this, players get cited at the drop of a hat these days and get nothing was forthcoming for these alleged incidents.

CM alleging that Glasgow are institutionally trying to injure players is almost libellous (well it probably is, but I would not want Glasgow to go down that route either). Hopefully Glasgow will have the good sense to ignore it and treat it with the contempt it deserves.

by **BigGee** Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:15 pm

Sin é wrote:
demosthenes wrote:
Sin é wrote:GC - fair play to you. I think the problem is that a low tackle when someone is standing on one leg is dangerous. The kicker is vulnerable with just one foot on the ground as they can't protect themselves - sort of like a player going for high ball need to be protected.

I do see the analogy, and don't disagree that there is an element of risk to a player on one leg, but the problem is essentially where do you draw the line. Any tackle is potentially dangerous. The 'player in the air' scenario is however NOT equivalent. It is not just dangerous, it is potentially lethal, and so quite rightly severely sanctioned.

The laws keep evolving (i.e., zero tolerance for high tackles). I can't see it being particularly difficult to stop high or low tackles on players in vulnerable situations depending on the circumstances.

If you follow this argument through to its logical conclusion, you just end up with touch rugby, but even that might be considered to dangerous!

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:16 pm

The Strauss tackle that is pictured on the the42.ie piece has the first impact on the hip.

Ouch, eh?

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:17 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

Jerry Flannery said on live air during the match on Saturday that Munster had complained to the various authorities about this practice prior to the game which suggests to me that there is nothing they can do about it and probably encouraged Munster to go public on it so that it could be legislated for.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:20 pm

Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

Jerry Flannery said on live air during the match on Saturday that Munster had complained to the various authorities about this practice prior to the game which suggests to me that there is nothing they can do about it and probably encouraged Munster to go public on it so that it could be legislated for.

Genuine question - is there an opportunity for a team to flag up alleged acts of foul play to the citing officer after the game?

You can understand player frustration but I just don't see it acceptable to publicly accuse someone of something so serious and if it is allowed to go on then things will get out of hand - 'WP Nel pulled out one of my pubes in the scrum - it really hurt!' etc

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:20 pm

Munster tried to influence the ref before the game?

Wow.

by Hazel Sapling Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:21 pm

You mean Glasgow like to go around the other side of the ruck to try and get to the 9? You mean if you placed 1 bloke on that side, it would probably not happen by giving the 9 more space? If it is occurring as often as claimed by Kinsella, the coaches would have recognised it as well. There is a simple tactic that negates it if the concern is the ref either can not or will not punish it that I have brought up. It clearly can't be that bad if it is being ignored until after Munster are under investigation over a head injury. If it occurred in previous games, why is this only being brought up now in public? If Flannery and co complained to refs, why don't you protect your marquee player with proper guards?

Glasgow target the 9 of the opposition. It is not special. The method may be and it is riskier especially if you go low. Problem is, if the 9 ducks now it is a yellow. It makes the zone you can hit harder so players misjudge it when you really should not go low (but it is not illegal to go low). It is common sense to ban beneath the knee. If you are able to wrap both legs, it really does not matter if you hit the thigh but it is a gray zone about timing in that situation.

This happens to be the second time a Munster player has mouthed off about Glasgow acting nefariously after actions that brought the club into disrepute (Earls's red and subsequent accusations; handling of Murray's HIA (for me timing, he should have been taken off immediately to be assessed not after another phase of play) and now claiming opposition coaches are attempting to severely injure him intentionally). Be interesting if Munster and Glasgow have a Champions Cup quarter....

by tigertattie Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:23 pm

PhilBB wrote:If it's not late, it's a legitimate tackle so there should be no moan.

I've seen the gif of the tackle shown in the pic. There's nothing wrong with it.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/1-19-2017/oO68YK.gif

Holy bajeesus that makes for horrendous viewing! Should come with an 18 certificate!

There's nothing more sickening in rugby that deliberate foul play!

Hopefully a sanction is put on the player for this!

Outrageous!

How dare Connor Murray play act like he did!

I mean come on! One rugby player tackling another rugby player round the legs! Looks like Murray has taken up the whinging player position left by BOD and is only matched by the constant crocodile tears of Dan Biggar!

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:24 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:You mean Glasgow like to go around the other side of the ruck to try and get to the 9? You mean if you placed 1 bloke on that side, it would probably not happen by giving the 9 more space? If it is occurring as often as claimed by Kinsella, the coaches would have recognised it as well. There is a simple tactic that negates it if the concern is the ref either can not or will not punish it that I have brought up. It clearly can't be that bad if it is being ignored until after Munster are under investigation over a head injury. If it occurred in previous games, why is this only being brought up now in public? If Flannery and co complained to refs, why don't you protect your marquee player with proper guards?

Glasgow target the 9 of the opposition. It is not special. The method may be and it is riskier especially if you go low. Problem is, if the 9 ducks now it is a yellow. It makes the zone you can hit harder so players misjudge it when you really should not go low (but it is not illegal to go low). It is common sense to ban beneath the knee. If you are able to wrap both legs, it really does not matter if you hit the thigh but it is a gray zone about timing in that situation.

This happens to be the second time a Munster player has mouthed off about Glasgow acting nefariously after actions that brought the club into disrepute (Earls's red and subsequent accusations; handling of Murray's HIA (for me timing, he should have been taken off immediately to be assessed not after another phase of play) and now claiming opposition coaches are attempting to severely injure him intentionally). Be interesting if Munster and Glasgow have a Champions Cup quarter....

Murray admits to lying motionless. Therefore, your point in bold is EXACTLY what Munster should have done but did not.

Still, nobody is talking about that right now, are they?

So the lies and diversion tactics have worked.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

Jerry Flannery said on live air during the match on Saturday that Munster had complained to the various authorities about this practice prior to the game which suggests to me that there is nothing they can do about it and probably encouraged Munster to go public on it so that it could be legislated for.

Genuine question - is there an opportunity for a team to flag up alleged acts of foul play to the citing officer after the game?

You can understand player frustration but I just don't see it acceptable to publicly accuse someone of something so serious and if it is allowed to go on then things will get out of hand - 'WP Nel pulled out one of my pubes in the scrum - it really hurt!' etc

As far as I know each team are asked by the Citing Commissioner after the match if there is anything they want to flag for him to take a look at. Nothing more.

this is what Murray said:

“I’m properly p*ssed off about that. I don’t see any benefit in charging down someone’s standing leg. I only see it as a danger or as a potential to get injured.

“I don’t think it’s a good tactic. You could put another label on that type of tactic, but they did it to us at Thomond Park, they got our scrum-half Te (Aihe Toma) with it in the league game and they almost got me a couple of times.

“So, luckily my leg came out of the ground and I managed to fall over, but if my leg stayed in the ground — especially in that surface — you’re looking at syndesmosis, you’re looking at cruciate (ligament).

“I’m not blaming the players. I don’t know who told them to do it but it’s dangerous. It’s very dangerous and thankfully I didn’t get injured but if I had have been injured I would have been going on more of a rant.”

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:32 pm

Yet there is no example of any players "charging down someone's standing leg".

At least we've all avoided the obvious joke about him having concussion, leading to him fabricating this nonsense.

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:34 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:You mean Glasgow like to go around the other side of the ruck to try and get to the 9? You mean if you placed 1 bloke on that side, it would probably not happen by giving the 9 more space? If it is occurring as often as claimed by Kinsella, the coaches would have recognised it as well. There is a simple tactic that negates it if the concern is the ref either can not or will not punish it that I have brought up. It clearly can't be that bad if it is being ignored until after Munster are under investigation over a head injury. If it occurred in previous games, why is this only being brought up now in public? If Flannery and co complained to refs, why don't you protect your marquee player with proper guards?

Glasgow target the 9 of the opposition. It is not special. The method may be and it is riskier especially if you go low. Problem is, if the 9 ducks now it is a yellow. It makes the zone you can hit harder so players misjudge it when you really should not go low (but it is not illegal to go low). It is common sense to ban beneath the knee. If you are able to wrap both legs, it really does not matter if you hit the thigh but it is a gray zone about timing in that situation.

This happens to be the second time a Munster player has mouthed off about Glasgow acting nefariously after actions that brought the club into disrepute (Earls's red and subsequent accusations; handling of Murray's HIA (for me timing, he should have been taken off immediately to be assessed not after another phase of play) and now claiming opposition coaches are attempting to severely injure him intentionally). Be interesting if Munster and Glasgow have a Champions Cup quarter....

So Glasgow's tactic were to force Munster to put more people into the ruck area by threatening to break Munster 9s legs so that Munster would have fewer players available in the defensive line so their outside backs could run riot out on the flanks. Whistle

Major fail then Laugh

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:37 pm

Now we've moved on to 'threatening to break legs'.

This just keeps giving.

by **BigGee** Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:41 pm

Sin é wrote:

this is what Murray said:

“I’m properly p*ssed off about that. I don’t see any benefit in charging down someone’s standing leg. I only see it as a danger or as a potential to get injured.

“I don’t think it’s a good tactic. You could put another label on that type of tactic, but they did it to us at Thomond Park, they got our scrum-half Te (Aihe Toma) with it in the league game and they almost got me a couple of times.

“So, luckily my leg came out of the ground and I managed to fall over, but if my leg stayed in the ground — especially in that surface — you’re looking at syndesmosis, you’re looking at cruciate (ligament).

“I’m not blaming the players. I don’t know who told them to do it but it’s dangerous. It’s very dangerous and thankfully I didn’t get injured but if I had have been injured I would have been going on more of a rant.”

Blimey, I know the Irish can talk, but is that really his idea of a minor rant!

I can't imagine what a major one would be like.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:44 pm

Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Whether there is a case to answer or not, I really don't like seeing players mouthing off in the press and throwing serious accusations about players - World Rugby / EPCR needs to stamp down in this immediately.

There are infinite number of replays and camera angles and there are citing officers in place to look out for foul play.

We cannot have players doing this - it is very unprofessional and brings the game into disrepute.

Jerry Flannery said on live air during the match on Saturday that Munster had complained to the various authorities about this practice prior to the game which suggests to me that there is nothing they can do about it and probably encouraged Munster to go public on it so that it could be legislated for.

Genuine question - is there an opportunity for a team to flag up alleged acts of foul play to the citing officer after the game?

You can understand player frustration but I just don't see it acceptable to publicly accuse someone of something so serious and if it is allowed to go on then things will get out of hand - 'WP Nel pulled out one of my pubes in the scrum - it really hurt!' etc

As far as I know each team are asked by the Citing Commissioner after the match if there is anything they want to flag for him to take a look at. Nothing more.

this is what Murray said:

“I’m properly p*ssed off about that. I don’t see any benefit in charging down someone’s standing leg. I only see it as a danger or as a potential to get injured.

“I don’t think it’s a good tactic. You could put another label on that type of tactic, but they did it to us at Thomond Park, they got our scrum-half Te (Aihe Toma) with it in the league game and they almost got me a couple of times.

“So, luckily my leg came out of the ground and I managed to fall over, but if my leg stayed in the ground — especially in that surface — you’re looking at syndesmosis, you’re looking at cruciate (ligament).

“I’m not blaming the players. I don’t know who told them to do it but it’s dangerous. It’s very dangerous and thankfully I didn’t get injured but if I had have been injured I would have been going on more of a rant.”

I've only seen the Gif but I've got to say I also don't see what Murray's problem is for that specific incident. Maybe other views might show it but I just don't get it!

in that quote he is basically saying that Glasgow's management are instructing their players to injure the opposition. Again that is not an acceptable thing for a professional rugby player to say in public.

by tigertattie Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:46 pm

whats next? Munster to sue the next team that beats them?

I've got as much of a dislike of Glasgow players as the next guy, but to accuse them of this nonsense is bringing the game into disrepute at best, libelous at worst! Connor Murray needs hauled in front of a disciplinary panel for spouting this nonsense!

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:49 pm

^ Yes ^

But at least we're not talking about his HIA, right?

by the-goon Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:56 pm

Let's have a look at this.

Here is the 1st play of the game, Gray comes in from the standing leg side (so no chance of a charge down), and follows through on a tackle on standing leg a second after the ball is kicked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inkcoXE_7s

(at 1min 40)

Another one, this time not even a charge down attempt from another player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inkcoXE_7s

(at 21min 58)

In both cases it's obvious that Murray is kicking, and that neither Gray nor Strauss had any chance of stopping the kick. Why follow through on his standing leg? Both could have been pinged for late tackles, both had time to pull out once the ball was kicked, but didn't.

Is he over-reacting? Does he have a point from a player welfare perspective?

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:57 pm

RDW - he says its been happening in the 3 games that Munster have played this season. The Strauss tackle is mentioned because he said that is when drew it to the attention of the officials.

I think he was trying not to blame the Glasgow players and take them out of the spotlight.

I presume it must be the Glasgow Defence Coach who also happens to be the Scotland Defence Coach. I'd imagine Murray wants to be able to finish the 6Ns and go on the Lions tour and doesn't want to have to risk that again. Good time to fire a warning shot over Scotland's Coaching Team and give them a chance to reasses their tactics.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:59 pm

For the first one, he's committed to the tackle before the ball is kicked.

The second one is the Strauss tackle, which is clearly legal and fine.

9s dummy kicks often. Neither tackle is late or dangerous, both are valid. Neither player could physically have pulled out of those tackles.

by PhilBB Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:00 pm

Sin é wrote:RDW - he says its been happening in the 3 games that Munster have played this season. The Strauss tackle is mentioned because he said that is when drew it to the attention of the officials.

I think he was trying not to blame the Glasgow players and take them out of the spotlight.

I presume it must be the Glasgow Defence Coach who also happens to be the Scotland Defence Coach. I'd imagine Murray wants to be able to finish the 6Ns and go on the Lions tour and doesn't want to have to risk that again. Good time to fire a warning shot over Scotland's Coaching Team and give them a chance to reasses their tactics.

And look at how Murray did bring it to the attention of the touch judge - by shouting abuse at him.

But surely he didn't need to bring it to their attention because they had already seen it and rightly judged it as nothing. Also, the refereeing team were told about it BEFORE the game.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:02 pm

Murray = big girl's blouse.

Fact.

Anyway, I'm sure the Kiwis will be extra nice to him on the Lions tour, and won't touch his precious legs.....

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:04 pm

the-goon wrote:Let's have a look at this.

Here is the 1st play of the game, Gray comes in from the standing leg side (so no chance of a charge down), and follows through on a tackle on standing leg a second after the ball is kicked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inkcoXE_7s

(at 1min 40)

Another one, this time not even a charge down attempt from another player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inkcoXE_7s

(at 21min 58)

In both cases it's obvious that Murray is kicking, and that neither Gray nor Strauss had any chance of stopping the kick. Why follow through on his standing leg? Both could have been pinged for late tackles, both had time to pull out once the ball was kicked, but didn't.

Is he over-reacting? Does he have a point from a player welfare perspective?

Had a quick look at them - Gray isn't going for a charge down, he's going for a tackle and initially gets him round the waist and slides down. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see, and he gets there moments after the ball is kicked, no chance of him pulling out of the tackle.

The 2nd is the Strauss tackle and again it's similar to Gray, I don't think he's going for the charge down and is trying to tackle the player (legally).

I appreciate given it's a Scottish club I'm potentially biassed but I can't see anything wrong with either of them.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:04 pm

Sin é wrote:RDW - he says its been happening in the 3 games that Munster have played this season. The Strauss tackle is mentioned because he said that is when drew it to the attention of the officials.

I think he was trying not to blame the Glasgow players and take them out of the spotlight.

I presume it must be the Glasgow Defence Coach who also happens to be the Scotland Defence Coach. I'd imagine Murray wants to be able to finish the 6Ns and go on the Lions tour and doesn't want to have to risk that again. Good time to fire a warning shot over Scotland's Coaching Team and give them a chance to reasses their tactics.

But again this is him making a public accusation that Glasgow's coaches are deliberately making tactics to injure the opposition - that is very serious claim and we can't have players doing that!

by Sin é Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:RDW - he says its been happening in the 3 games that Munster have played this season. The Strauss tackle is mentioned because he said that is when drew it to the attention of the officials.

I think he was trying not to blame the Glasgow players and take them out of the spotlight.

I presume it must be the Glasgow Defence Coach who also happens to be the Scotland Defence Coach. I'd imagine Murray wants to be able to finish the 6Ns and go on the Lions tour and doesn't want to have to risk that again. Good time to fire a warning shot over Scotland's Coaching Team and give them a chance to reasses their tactics.

But again this is him making a public accusation that Glasgow's coaches are deliberately making tactics to injure the opposition - that is very serious claim and we can't have players doing that!

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing what Glasgow has to say about this and to whoever devised the tactic to defend it.

by EST Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:08 pm

According to Munster, Glasgow players either deliberately set out to get Munster players sent off, and/or try and permanently injure them. Munster have chucked out two serious allegations regarding Glasgow this season, with absolutely no proof. It does a wonderful club no favours, in my opinion.

Having watched all of the gifs/clips, I honestly don't know what this is about. The worst that can be said regarding the two tackles highlighted by the-goon, are that they are marginally late, neither are malicious. CM would be much better served by spouting off to his forward pack about a lack of pillar at the breakdown.

The game was absolutely brilliant, and fairly won by Munster. We don't need this rubbish being spouted off that brings a club's fundamental integrity into disrepute with no basis whatsoever.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:09 pm

Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:RDW - he says its been happening in the 3 games that Munster have played this season. The Strauss tackle is mentioned because he said that is when drew it to the attention of the officials.

I think he was trying not to blame the Glasgow players and take them out of the spotlight.

I presume it must be the Glasgow Defence Coach who also happens to be the Scotland Defence Coach. I'd imagine Murray wants to be able to finish the 6Ns and go on the Lions tour and doesn't want to have to risk that again. Good time to fire a warning shot over Scotland's Coaching Team and give them a chance to reasses their tactics.

But again this is him making a public accusation that Glasgow's coaches are deliberately making tactics to injure the opposition - that is very serious claim and we can't have players doing that!

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing what Glasgow has to say about this and to whoever devised the tactic to defend it.

I'm assuming neither Strauss or Gray have been cited - based on all camera angles available - so Glasgow's coaches have nothing to answer for?

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:RDW - he says its been happening in the 3 games that Munster have played this season. The Strauss tackle is mentioned because he said that is when drew it to the attention of the officials.

I think he was trying not to blame the Glasgow players and take them out of the spotlight.

I presume it must be the Glasgow Defence Coach who also happens to be the Scotland Defence Coach. I'd imagine Murray wants to be able to finish the 6Ns and go on the Lions tour and doesn't want to have to risk that again. Good time to fire a warning shot over Scotland's Coaching Team and give them a chance to reasses their tactics.

But again this is him making a public accusation that Glasgow's coaches are deliberately making tactics to injure the opposition - that is very serious claim and we can't have players doing that!

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing what Glasgow has to say about this and to whoever devised the tactic to defend it.

I'm assuming neither Strauss or Gray have been cited - based on all camera angles available - so Glasgow's coaches have nothing to answer for?

Aye apparently Glasgow have declined to comment as they are focussed on their next game, and not the nonsense ramblings of Murray...I'm paraphrasing

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