Ulster 2016/2017

by SecretFly Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well the danger is always that life happens and he might refocus his entire life after two years in France.... were he to go.

by geoff999rugby Tue 17 Jan 2017, 1:35 pm

As said Mc Closkey is the problem.

Unfortunately we need due to an inadequate back row.

Not a good situation

by The Great Aukster Tue 17 Jan 2017, 1:47 pm

Kiss said to him 'Now look Stu we need you to have a top notch defence', but unfortunately Stu thought he said a 'top knot' defence.
It's all down to the coaches Wink

by SecretFly Tue 17 Jan 2017, 3:01 pm

Speaking of 'notch'. Where is he?

Maybe just had enough of this joint, which is infinitely understandable. Hope he's fine otherwise.

by Pete330v2 Tue 17 Jan 2017, 4:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:Speaking of 'notch'. Where is he?

Maybe just had enough of this joint, which is infinitely understandable. Hope he's fine otherwise.

Still posts on bakebook so I dare say he's hovering about watching us Smile

by The Great Aukster Tue 17 Jan 2017, 4:40 pm

Notch is actually getting close to the action and getting a top view - hovering on McCloskeys skull. That's the problem with foreign coaches, locals can't understand their accents.
Whereas with Doak and Clarke - players can understand what they're saying, they just can't understand what they mean.

by Guest Tue 17 Jan 2017, 5:10 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:As mentioned before Christmas we had 3 main signing lined up. IQ 9, NIQ 8 both in the bag, the other will be a LH . From what I understand a Kiwi and I would imagine a Project giving us 3+1 next year.
For a first ever start Shanahan did well, step up from Marshall. Encouraged by him barking out orders - not many in our team do that.
Trimble has to be the most pointless appointment as a captain I've ever seen.

Next year our 9's will be Cooney, Shanahan and 1 of Lloyd or Heaney I reckon. It's a year too early for the 2 youngsters.

I maintain my belief that Marshall, Black, Lutton are off in the summer.
Props for next year
LH - Kiwi, McCall, Warwick
TH - Herbst, Ah You, Kane, Simpson
Next on the list - Trenier, O'Hagan

One thing I have to mention starting to see why Schmidt has cast McCloskey into the wilderness , his defence has been appalling in recent weeks really getting exposed. Him and Marshall not working We feel forced to play him though because the back row is so weak, with 2 staffers next year I don't reckoned he will make the team.
Olding/Marshall for 12 Payne/Cave for 13. Payne and Cave remain the smartest defenders.

Would not shock me if Jackson is holding out for a Central contract or, alternatively, the highest Ulster contract ever for an Irish player.

On a a positive note almost certain both Doak and Clarke are off.
As for Kiss let's judge him with his own men in - he didn't want those 2. Force on him by IRFU

A Saffer Kiwi? THIS-ONE?

Picking that up from the other lot.

by Guest Tue 17 Jan 2017, 5:14 pm

Aye, Notch. You've had yer break. Get back here and do yer job mad

by clivemcl Tue 17 Jan 2017, 6:05 pm

Aye, he'll do.

Any chance he could come now but. Fed up with these signings that don't appear till near Christmas.

by Guest Tue 17 Jan 2017, 6:24 pm

clivemcl wrote:Aye, he'll do.

Any chance he could come now but. Fed up with these signings that don't appear till near Christmas.

No, he's not injured yet. I expect him around Christmas after rehab Smile

by marty2086 Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:46 pm

Neil Best has written a piece on LinkedIn, because thats the place for writing about rugby.

When I left Ulster for Northampton in 2008 the step up in terms of the club’s professionalism and setup was huge. Ulster evolved over the years and the gaps narrowed between them and the “old money” English clubs. Now it feels like big gaps are opening up again between Ulster and Europe’s top table.

I watched Northampton play over the weekend. They have by far the best supporters in English Rugby, and it was great to see them beat Castres. Despite a high number of handling errors and significant problems with the scrum they found a way to win. Courtney Lawes and Tom Wood were effective and Teimana Harrison was simply fantastic.

I remember him arriving at Northampton as a teenager on a recommendation from Dylan Hartley. At the weekend he showed exactly what a team like Ulster don’t have in the back row. That comes down to a long view of recruitment and squad balance –and of course Ulster seems unable to just find a way to win.

Not only has the Exeter defeat put qualification beyond Ulster, it looks very much like they will be the only Irish province unable to navigate the Pool stage. For Ulster Rugby that is simply not acceptable and there must be change.

The PR machine at Ulster kicked in last week searching for any good news they could put their hands on. Bizarrely Coetzee’s possible debut was announced nearly a month in advance and that was followed by apparent briefings on end of season changes in the backroom and hinting at another big name signing to bolster the back row.

What the PR team will struggle to do dress up is Les Kiss’s immediate post-match comments where he appeared to blame the players when he said “we've got to have players who are going to put their hands up and make a difference in terms of their play on a weekly basis and being more consistent.”

It reminds of Dean Ryan’s excessive criticism of his Gloucester team around the time of his departure in 2009 after several seasons in charge. For Ryan to criticise a team he build over a number of seasons was unforgiveable. And for Kiss to take a similar line with a group of players he has been with for nearly three seasons smacks of deflection.

When things don’t go right or they go badly wrong, there has to be accountability. Whether you look at Dan Tuohy’s hurried exit mid-season under the cover of darkness, or Joe Barakat’s pre-Christmas departure, not to mention how Ruan’s club loyalty has been treated –it doesn’t take Marcellus to work out something is seriously not right at Ulster.

Still there is positive news, Ulster A won again on Friday evening, which at least one fan mischievously labelled –the best performance he has seen at the Kingspan this season.

Kiss' 3 seasons in charge have flown in

by Guest Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:56 pm

Apart from his belief that Kiss has been in charge for 3 seasons, he's right in all he says.

The buck stops with Kiss, and Kiss does tend to blame players for what appears to be the result of poor coaching. The players already seem lacking in motivation, at times, blaming them for coaching faults is hardly going to inspire them.

Something is wrong at the heart of Ulster. That's what we have been saying on these threads. Hopefully a change in coaching staff will go a long way in addressing this.

Best is spot on about the PR machine. When things go bad, the PR department role out the good news. It's as if they keep information on new signings in reserve until we lose a game we should have won.

Best had all the fire and bloody-mindedness that this Ulster pack lack, even if he was short on discipline.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 7:43 am

The problem is he isn't right about pretty much anything, Coetzee wasn't 'announced' as coming back for Edinburgh. Kiss was asked about players who were injured, then specifically asked would Coetzee be available for the end of January and the answer was hopefully the Edinburgh game.

Also the PR machine didn't exactly kick in, it was reported in the press last week so Ulster have went ahead and confirmed it.

His whole premise is that Kiss has been in charge for 3 seasons and the comparison to Dean Ryan to say that hes built this team and failed. Kiss hasnt even had a full season yet. He also blames Ulster for Pienaars departure.

By any chance is Best friends with Doak or Clarke?

by clivemcl Wed 18 Jan 2017, 9:47 am

Just out of curiousity - is it possible Kiss was directing and enforcing general game plan and style while he was still with Ireland? Perhaps if Best is mates with Doak/Clarke, perhaps their side of the story is they have simply been carrying out his general direction, even in the year and a half before he came in officially?

I'm just saying, if Doak and Clarke are getting bad press, you can see why their counter argument might be 'hey, we are just doing what Less tells us, the buck should stop with him'.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 9:55 am

clivemcl wrote:Just out of curiousity - is it possible Kiss was directing and enforcing general game plan and style while he was still with Ireland? Perhaps if Best is mates with Doak/Clarke, perhaps their side of the story is they have simply been carrying out his general direction, even in the year and a half before he came in officially?

I'm just saying, if Doak and Clarke are getting bad press, you can see why their counter argument might be 'hey, we are just doing what Less tells us, the buck should stop with him'.

That would mean Kiss was the puppet master when Humphreys and Anscombe were in place

by clivemcl Wed 18 Jan 2017, 11:02 am

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Just out of curiousity - is it possible Kiss was directing and enforcing general game plan and style while he was still with Ireland? Perhaps if Best is mates with Doak/Clarke, perhaps their side of the story is they have simply been carrying out his general direction, even in the year and a half before he came in officially?

I'm just saying, if Doak and Clarke are getting bad press, you can see why their counter argument might be 'hey, we are just doing what Less tells us, the buck should stop with him'.

That would mean Kiss was the puppet master when Humphreys and Anscombe were in place

Yea but there was a full year just doak/clarke, a half year last year, and this is the third year. If he was, as you say the puppet master even while Doak was the interim coach, that would tally up to nearing three seasons. Or have I had a brain fart?

Also, there's been a lot of chat about 'jobs for the boys', but let's remember it's player power that ousted Anscombe, and all the Irish players were celebrating the appointment of Kiss as somebody they already knew and respected. Isn't that kind of 'jobs for the boys'.

What if the players don't know whats good for themselves. What if they like Kiss because he's a mate, or because they like his manner and personality.

I'm not saying his time is up yet. I'm just curious at this stage. I AM starting to ponder if the problems lay partly with Kiss. He deserves more time though.

A new coaching team could:
a) Show him to be very good
b) Mask over the fact he isn't THAT great
c) Make very little difference if it turns out Kiss is the weak link himself. censored

Who knows. Erm

by marty2086 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 11:27 am

clivemcl wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Just out of curiousity - is it possible Kiss was directing and enforcing general game plan and style while he was still with Ireland? Perhaps if Best is mates with Doak/Clarke, perhaps their side of the story is they have simply been carrying out his general direction, even in the year and a half before he came in officially?

I'm just saying, if Doak and Clarke are getting bad press, you can see why their counter argument might be 'hey, we are just doing what Less tells us, the buck should stop with him'.

That would mean Kiss was the puppet master when Humphreys and Anscombe were in place

Yea but there was a full year just doak/clarke, a half year last year, and this is the third year. If he was, as you say the puppet master even while Doak was the interim coach, that would tally up to nearing three seasons. Or have I had a brain fart?

Also, there's been a lot of chat about 'jobs for the boys', but let's remember it's player power that ousted Anscombe, and all the Irish players were celebrating the appointment of Kiss as somebody they already knew and respected. Isn't that kind of 'jobs for the boys'.

What if the players don't know whats good for themselves. What if they like Kiss because he's a mate, or because they like his manner and personality.

I'm not saying his time is up yet. I'm just curious at this stage. I AM starting to ponder if the problems lay partly with Kiss. He deserves more time though.

A new coaching team could:
a) Show him to be very good
b) Mask over the fact he isn't THAT great
c) Make very little difference if it turns out Kiss is the weak link himself.

Who knows.

No I had the brain fart, I forgot he was with us before the RWC, the 3 years really have flown in.

Maybe geoff or someone could shed light on who actually does run training. The Head Coach title does seem to be a title rather than representative of the role and duties and its more of an assistant coach role that Doak has when you compare it to his predecessors.

When you look at the other provinces too, they seem to have a maybe an extra coach or two with a bit more specialisation on different areas too.

by Guest Wed 18 Jan 2017, 12:30 pm

marty2086 wrote:The problem is he isn't right about pretty much anything, Coetzee wasn't 'announced' as coming back for Edinburgh. Kiss was asked about players who were injured, then specifically asked would Coetzee be available for the end of January and the answer was hopefully the Edinburgh game.

Also the PR machine didn't exactly kick in, it was reported in the press last week so Ulster have went ahead and confirmed it.

His whole premise is that Kiss has been in charge for 3 seasons and the comparison to Dean Ryan to say that hes built this team and failed. Kiss hasnt even had a full season yet. He also blames Ulster for Pienaars departure.

By any chance is Best friends with Doak or Clarke?

We have been hearing about Coetzee starting after Christmas, for months. I was talking about Cooney.

He's also right that somethings not right at Ulster. That's something that has been said on these threads since before Kiss was appointed.

I don't know if he is friends with Doak and Clarke. His not mentioning them doesn't have to mean he thinks they are not part of the problem. Doak and Clarke are part of the problem, but things have gone from bad to worse since the arrival of Kiss. It's possible he's covering for Doak and Clarke, but only possible.

by neilthom7 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 1:44 pm

I see Montpellier have signed Aaron Cruden for next season, that's the palce Pienaar was linked with right? That would be some halfback pairing

by marty2086 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 1:59 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The problem is he isn't right about pretty much anything, Coetzee wasn't 'announced' as coming back for Edinburgh. Kiss was asked about players who were injured, then specifically asked would Coetzee be available for the end of January and the answer was hopefully the Edinburgh game.

Also the PR machine didn't exactly kick in, it was reported in the press last week so Ulster have went ahead and confirmed it.

His whole premise is that Kiss has been in charge for 3 seasons and the comparison to Dean Ryan to say that hes built this team and failed. Kiss hasnt even had a full season yet. He also blames Ulster for Pienaars departure.

By any chance is Best friends with Doak or Clarke?

We have been hearing about Coetzee starting after Christmas, for months. I was talking about Cooney.

He's also right that somethings not right at Ulster. That's something that has been said on these threads since before Kiss was appointed.

I don't know if he is friends with Doak and Clarke. His not mentioning them doesn't have to mean he thinks they are not part of the problem. Doak and Clarke are part of the problem, but things have gone from bad to worse since the arrival of Kiss. It's possible he's covering for Doak and Clarke, but only possible.

I think Kiss has to take the blame for the Clarke/Doak mess getting worse under him but if he's tried getting rid of them and not been able to it absolves him of some of the blame.

He also brought in Barakat who seemed to make little difference from what was seen on the pitch. So mightn't bode well for any future coaches brought in.

I do think Kiss was right with his criticism of the players on Sunday that they need to take chances and need to up their efforts, I actually think he has defended them too much publically in the past mostly a few weeks ago with Ferris' comments about a lack of passion. Something that we seen prior to Les coming in too, especially when the fringe players come in.

by Pete330v2 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:35 pm

I wouldn't really read much into what Neill Best thinks, he's probably still got a very bitter chip on his shoulder when it comes to Ulster. Then again, he's not saying much more than we've all discussed on here, at length, for some time. Kiss needs to form his own full coaching team and not one missing a defence coach or a forwards coach. He needs a full season with a settled coaching ticket before we can actually see what Kiss can do. I am positive he's shackled to watching dumb and dumber coach the class out of the players at the moment. As for critisising players well what's wrong with that. Why lambast Kiss for saying what we champion Ferris for saying? Also, when it comes to trying to paper over the negatives with news of singings etc, does he think Ulster fans are stupid. Well the facebook ones might be but not on here Smile

by Guest Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:56 pm

Sometimes it's right to criticise the players, but when a coach is criticising players for the same things after each loss, maybe the coach needs to look to himself, and his coaching staff? Players aren't even getting the basics right, and the standards have dropped. That isn't down to the players. That's down to poor coaching, as is the headless chicken rugby, no plan B and absence of team effort.

I was never convinced by Barakat, and don't think our defense was really improved under him, contrary to other opinions. I think he's spoofer who makes all the right noises.
It may not bode well for future coaching appointments, but it's in his interests to get the best he can, and hopefully he signs exactly the type of coaching staff we need.
Kiss may have had his hands tied by the IRFU, with regards to signing his own staff. He might make a very good DoR, but I think he needs to sign an excellent head coach and allow that head coach free reign in coaching the squad.
We will need Forwards coach, a Backs coach and a Defense coach.

Ferris is right about the lack of passion, and no surprise that Kiss would challenge that. I believe that lack of passion is the responsibility of the present coaching staff.

by **rodders** Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:57 pm

marty2086 wrote:

He also brought in Barakat who seemed to make little difference from what was seen on the pitch. So mightn't bode well for any future coaches brought in.

Barakat made a big difference, he made our defence worse.

by neilthom7 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:00 pm

Dang Nucifora, look what you have driven Ruan to, Pienaar has a new job Cool

https://twitter.com/Bavarian_BMW/status/821723670800371712

by clivemcl Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:28 pm

neilthom7 wrote:Dang Nucifora, look what you have driven Ruan to, Pienaar has a new job

https://twitter.com/Bavarian_BMW/status/821723670800371712

There's nowt wrong with Bavarian's choice of back room staff thumbsup

by carpet baboon Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:33 pm

clivemcl wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:Dang Nucifora, look what you have driven Ruan to, Pienaar has a new job

https://twitter.com/Bavarian_BMW/status/821723670800371712

There's nowt wrong with Bavarian's choice of back room staff

They are certainly easy on the eye

by neilthom7 Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:34 pm

clivemcl wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:Dang Nucifora, look what you have driven Ruan to, Pienaar has a new job

https://twitter.com/Bavarian_BMW/status/821723670800371712

There's nowt wrong with Bavarian's choice of back room staff

Maybe we should put them in charge of hiring Ulsters new backroom staff considering the mess we made with Clarke and Doak lol

by **rodders** Thu 19 Jan 2017, 9:54 am

BOD tipping McCloskey to make the squad.

by Don Alfonso Thu 19 Jan 2017, 10:01 am

Where? On Twitter?

by marty2086 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 10:05 am

On Rugby Tonight last night

I often wonder if he watches games

by Don Alfonso Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:18 am

Watched the video. As soon as he goes to talk about McCloskey the video goes a bit IDD and he talks about Ringrose. Genuinely!

by SecretFly Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:38 am

marty2086 wrote:On Rugby Tonight last night

I often wonder if he watches games

BOD has made a dramatic change from absolute hard-bitten rugby warrior to soft, gentrified Twitter-darling of the cucumber-sandwich brigade Wink

I wished he had become a coach instead.... but of course everyone is entitled to their own chosen path in life. There is, for me, something so vacuous and sad about rugby Gods becoming pundits though. It's like Samson losing his hair.

by carpet baboon Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:45 am

Do you think that the truly great players, for most of them they have lived and breathed the sport for so long and when they finally retire most just decide on the easy life of punditry and after dinner speaking.
Personally I can't blame them. We made them rugby god's. They owe us feck all

by SecretFly Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:50 am

They owe us nothing.
But I still prefer Samson with long hair a flowing as he takes down them pillars and such Wink

by SecretFly Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:50 am

PS...no, BOD made himself a God. Now that's one thing I'm not going to claim any rights to.

by SecretFly Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:54 am

I'm just thinking about another allusion to the topic: Maximus Decimus Meridius on the X Factor panel. The horror! Sad

by Pete330v2 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 12:07 pm

http://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/rugby-rumours-maxime-for-manu-goode-move-ruan-pienaar-wigglesworth-and-finn-russell/17166.htm

So there's this, most likely journo guesswork as usual but I hope Ruan doesn't go to the greatly hated ones Sad

by neilthom7 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 12:15 pm

Looks like Pienaar is doing his best to avoid Saracens, thats 2 new jobs in 2 days for him https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/821999902964256768

by Cyril Thu 19 Jan 2017, 12:18 pm

Pienaar has visited both Allianz Park and the training facilities at Saracens recently.

Would be good to see him in the AP before he retires.

by UlsterinKildare Thu 19 Jan 2017, 1:13 pm

Kiss has had a key involvement in the Ulster set-up since mid-2014. His appointment was announced after his interim role ended and prior to Ireland's involvement at RWC 2015.

I find it ridiculous to think that his hands have been tied by the IRFU when it comes to the role of Doak and Clarke within the Ulster set-up. After all, he brought Barakat on board and would have been able to re-assign the 'naughty twins' to another role if he felt it was appropriate. Or, failing that, why wouldn't the IRFU have found a central role for them given that they both have a track record of dealing with one of the national set-up (if indeed they were really that insistent that they be kept in Irish rugby) .

As it is, they now appear to be the scapegoats for a failed season under Kiss. Handy that! So, if Doak and Clarke are to blame for the decline in skill levels, fitness and tactics, and the players are to blame for failing to "put their hand up" and the lack of passion, what exactly is Les responsible for?!?!

Look, I agree that Doak and Clarke have to carry some of the blame. As do the players. And I have been very critical of our lack of on-field leadership for years (despite my irregular posts on this forum), most particularly from the senior members of the squad. But, I am wholly unconvinced by Kiss. Not only does he not possess the requisite experience or track-record to lead a provincial set-up (neither did Foley or Cullen - both needed an experienced 'head coach' to come on board), but his 'throw everyone else under the bus' style is a clear recipe for failure.

Kiss is a decent no. 2 but there's no way that he should be in charge at Ulster. It's a crazy decision to give him the power to appoint his own coaching ticket and have shared responsiblilty for long-term strategy, including player recruitment. Those mistakes have the potential to damn Ulster rugby for years to come.

by Don Alfonso Thu 19 Jan 2017, 1:15 pm

https://minprintpageflip.cld.bz/Ulster-Rugby-Annual-Report-2015-2016/1

For your delectation.

by Guest Thu 19 Jan 2017, 2:00 pm

UlsterinKildare wrote:Kiss has had a key involvement in the Ulster set-up since mid-2014. His appointment was announced after his interim role ended and prior to Ireland's involvement at RWC 2015.

I find it ridiculous to think that his hands have been tied by the IRFU when it comes to the role of Doak and Clarke within the Ulster set-up. After all, he brought Barakat on board and would have been able to re-assign the 'naughty twins' to another role if he felt it was appropriate. Or, failing that, why wouldn't the IRFU have found a central role for them given that they both have a track record of dealing with one of the national set-up (if indeed they were really that insistent that they be kept in Irish rugby) .

As it is, they now appear to be the scapegoats for a failed season under Kiss. Handy that! So, if Doak and Clarke are to blame for the decline in skill levels, fitness and tactics, and the players are to blame for failing to "put their hand up" and the lack of passion, what exactly is Les responsible for?!?!

Look, I agree that Doak and Clarke have to carry some of the blame. As do the players. And I have been very critical of our lack of on-field leadership for years (despite my irregular posts on this forum), most particularly from the senior members of the squad. But, I am wholly unconvinced by Kiss. Not only does he not possess the requisite experience or track-record to lead a provincial set-up (neither did Foley or Cullen - both needed an experienced 'head coach' to come on board), but his 'throw everyone else under the bus' style is a clear recipe for failure.

Kiss is a decent no. 2 but there's no way that he should be in charge at Ulster. It's a crazy decision to give him the power to appoint his own coaching ticket and have shared responsiblilty for long-term strategy, including player recruitment. Those mistakes have the potential to damn Ulster rugby for years to come.

Disagree. What would really harm Ulster is the DoR not being allowed to appoint his own coaching staff, and have the IRFU shackle Ulster to under-performing coaches.

Also, if Ulster are to attract top coaches, those coaches are going to want to bring in their own guys, otherwise they will look elsewhere for a job.

by Pete330v2 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 2:13 pm

Munchkin wrote:
UlsterinKildare wrote:Kiss has had a key involvement in the Ulster set-up since mid-2014. His appointment was announced after his interim role ended and prior to Ireland's involvement at RWC 2015.

I find it ridiculous to think that his hands have been tied by the IRFU when it comes to the role of Doak and Clarke within the Ulster set-up. After all, he brought Barakat on board and would have been able to re-assign the 'naughty twins' to another role if he felt it was appropriate. Or, failing that, why wouldn't the IRFU have found a central role for them given that they both have a track record of dealing with one of the national set-up (if indeed they were really that insistent that they be kept in Irish rugby) .

As it is, they now appear to be the scapegoats for a failed season under Kiss. Handy that! So, if Doak and Clarke are to blame for the decline in skill levels, fitness and tactics, and the players are to blame for failing to "put their hand up" and the lack of passion, what exactly is Les responsible for?!?!

Look, I agree that Doak and Clarke have to carry some of the blame. As do the players. And I have been very critical of our lack of on-field leadership for years (despite my irregular posts on this forum), most particularly from the senior members of the squad. But, I am wholly unconvinced by Kiss. Not only does he not possess the requisite experience or track-record to lead a provincial set-up (neither did Foley or Cullen - both needed an experienced 'head coach' to come on board), but his 'throw everyone else under the bus' style is a clear recipe for failure.

Kiss is a decent no. 2 but there's no way that he should be in charge at Ulster. It's a crazy decision to give him the power to appoint his own coaching ticket and have shared responsiblilty for long-term strategy, including player recruitment. Those mistakes have the potential to damn Ulster rugby for years to come.

Disagree. What would really harm Ulster is the DoR not being allowed to appoint his own coaching staff, and have the IRFU shackle Ulster to under-performing coaches.

Also, if Ulster are to attract top coaches, those coaches are going to want to bring in their own guys, otherwise they will look elsewhere for a job.

I'm surprised there's someone about that doesn't agree the clear out is long overdue.
Forcing the incumbent backroom staff on any coaching ticket was always a mistake. The job' for the boys attitude within Ulster rugby has come to an end I hope, it's hardly relevant in a professional sporting environment. A few new coaches, hopefully with a decent CV will bring exactly what's needed because it sure isn't there right now.

by marty2086 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 2:19 pm

I think the way Kiss came in meant the need for continuity or the appearance of it, he came in on the interim while Clarke and Doak were on 1 year deals, he was away at he RWC at the start of last season so again continuity again needed but 2 year deals were given this time

by Guest Thu 19 Jan 2017, 2:44 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
UlsterinKildare wrote:Kiss has had a key involvement in the Ulster set-up since mid-2014. His appointment was announced after his interim role ended and prior to Ireland's involvement at RWC 2015.

I find it ridiculous to think that his hands have been tied by the IRFU when it comes to the role of Doak and Clarke within the Ulster set-up. After all, he brought Barakat on board and would have been able to re-assign the 'naughty twins' to another role if he felt it was appropriate. Or, failing that, why wouldn't the IRFU have found a central role for them given that they both have a track record of dealing with one of the national set-up (if indeed they were really that insistent that they be kept in Irish rugby) .

As it is, they now appear to be the scapegoats for a failed season under Kiss. Handy that! So, if Doak and Clarke are to blame for the decline in skill levels, fitness and tactics, and the players are to blame for failing to "put their hand up" and the lack of passion, what exactly is Les responsible for?!?!

Look, I agree that Doak and Clarke have to carry some of the blame. As do the players. And I have been very critical of our lack of on-field leadership for years (despite my irregular posts on this forum), most particularly from the senior members of the squad. But, I am wholly unconvinced by Kiss. Not only does he not possess the requisite experience or track-record to lead a provincial set-up (neither did Foley or Cullen - both needed an experienced 'head coach' to come on board), but his 'throw everyone else under the bus' style is a clear recipe for failure.

Kiss is a decent no. 2 but there's no way that he should be in charge at Ulster. It's a crazy decision to give him the power to appoint his own coaching ticket and have shared responsiblilty for long-term strategy, including player recruitment. Those mistakes have the potential to damn Ulster rugby for years to come.

Disagree. What would really harm Ulster is the DoR not being allowed to appoint his own coaching staff, and have the IRFU shackle Ulster to under-performing coaches.

Also, if Ulster are to attract top coaches, those coaches are going to want to bring in their own guys, otherwise they will look elsewhere for a job.

I'm surprised there's someone about that doesn't agree the clear out is long overdue.
Forcing the incumbent backroom staff on any coaching ticket was always a mistake. The job' for the boys attitude within Ulster rugby has come to an end I hope, it's hardly relevant in a professional sporting environment. A few new coaches, hopefully with a decent CV will bring exactly what's needed because it sure isn't there right now.

Hopefully it's the end of 'jobs for the boys', whether it's the IRFU or Ulster Rugby providing those jobs. I guess we will find out soon enough, and if Doak and Clarke are re-signed I will give up any hope of Ulster ever winning silverware.

by **rodders** Thu 19 Jan 2017, 3:26 pm

Cyril wrote:Pienaar has visited both Allianz Park and the training facilities at Saracens recently.

Would be good to see him in the AP before he retires.

He was just over to tell McCall what he's missing back home....

by marty2086 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 3:27 pm

What: Referee Recruitment Course

When: Sunday 29th January 2017, 9.30am - 4.30pm

Where: Kingspan Stadium, H3 Lounge

Why: Keep yourself fit and gain the skills necessary to make it as a referee at any level of the game. Become part of the wider USRFR network of referees, who regularly organise social gatherings and remain at the heart of club rugby. Ulster Branch referees also enjoy benefits such as access to international tickets, travel opportunities and continuous support.

Who: This training is applicable to first time referees who are interested in gaining referee qualifications from U14 level up to International or PRO12 level and everything in between.

Contact: Please contact david.wilkinson@irfu.ie for more information and to book your place.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/15660.php#.WIDbk2d1SM9

by **profitius** Thu 19 Jan 2017, 4:01 pm

Has Kiss made much of a difference at all since he took over Ulster? From an outside perspective, I don't really see any innovation in Ulsters play. They have these 'power plays' but once it goes to 3+ phases, theres not much organisation. The last 5 min against Exeter summed it up. Ulster were going backwards after every phase. That from a team with a talented backline.

The defensive side of things have been well documented. I was delighted when Andy Farrell signed for Ireland because it ment an end to the passive soak defence. I never understood the logic of Ireland having a soak defence especially considering the size of the Ireland backs at the time.

Needless to say I remain skeptical on Kiss' ability as a head coach. His insistence on playing the same players over and over is probably the biggest red flag for me. Rodger Wilson is simply not a Pro12 standard player these days. David Shanahan looked good against Exeter so why was that his first start? I havn't seen much of Ulster this season but if Wee Marshall is playing as badly as people say, why did Kiss insist on giving him so many games. At 31 he is not suddenly going to get better. It smacks of a coach who doesn't trust himelf to make big decisions. Maybe Kiss is too nice to drop players.

by Guest Thu 19 Jan 2017, 4:11 pm

profitius wrote:Has Kiss made much of a difference at all since he took over Ulster? From an outside perspective, I don't really see any innovation in Ulsters play. They have these 'power plays' but once it goes to 3+ phases, theres not much organisation. The last 5 min against Exeter summed it up. Ulster were going backwards after every phase. That from a team with a talented backline.

The defensive side of things have been well documented. I was delighted when Andy Farrell signed for Ireland because it ment an end to the passive soak defence. I never understood the logic of Ireland having a soak defence especially considering the size of the Ireland backs at the time.

Needless to say I remain skeptical on Kiss' ability as a head coach. His insistence on playing the same players over and over is probably the biggest red flag for me. Rodger Wilson is simply not a Pro12 standard player these days. David Shanahan looked good against Exeter so why was that his first start? I havn't seen much of Ulster this season but if Wee Marshall is playing as badly as people say, why did Kiss insist on giving him so many games. At 31 he is not suddenly going to get better. It smacks of a coach who doesn't trust himelf to make big decisions. Maybe Kiss is too nice to drop players.

I don't think Kiss has been coaching defense. That was Barakat, and now they all chip in to defense, including the Ulster players.

Kiss isn't the head coach, Doak is. I would be ok with Kiss as DoR (Doing what Humphs did) as long as we had an excellent head coach with quality assistant coaches under him. I would also be happy in replacing all of Kiss, Doak, Clarke and Malone. That's not going to happen, so will settle for Doak and Clarke replacements, along with a top defense coach.

by **rodders** Thu 19 Jan 2017, 4:12 pm

profitius wrote:Has Kiss made much of a difference at all since he took over Ulster? From an outside perspective, I don't really see any innovation in Ulsters play. They have these 'power plays' but once it goes to 3+ phases, theres not much organisation. The last 5 min against Exeter summed it up. Ulster were going backwards after every phase. That from a team with a talented backline.

The defensive side of things have been well documented. I was delighted when Andy Farrell signed for Ireland because it ment an end to the passive soak defence. I never understood the logic of Ireland having a soak defence especially considering the size of the Ireland backs at the time.

Bang on the money.

by neilthom7 Thu 19 Jan 2017, 10:08 pm

Ulster have confirmed Van Der Merwe is off to Cardiff in the summer, sneaky Ulster trying to hide it late at night lol

by Sponsored content