Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

Well the danger is always that life happens and he might refocus his entire life after two years in France.... were he to go.

eirebilly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I guess we all see different thing Munch. I would not be hailing him as a potential international just yet but I saw something in him to suggest that there is plenty a good coach could work with.

If only we had a good coach

If I were Ulster management, I would be sending a message out to Strings to see if he were able to work with Shanahan. Think Strings could really help him develop and hone his skills.

I have always admired Stringer and it would be a real positive if he came to Ulster. Failing that, we will probably have to wait a couple of years and hope Pienaar comes back to us as part of the coaching staff. I think he will if the opportunity is there.

I'm quite upbeat about Cooney. He's a player that I believe can be international standard, and hopefully any change in coaching staff will be one that will be a real positive for his future development.

I have not seen a lot of Cooney but what I have seen impressed me so he could do well at Ulster.

Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

Went to the game yesterday. Unfortunately,  it just reinforced my opinions on the current state of Ulster rugby.

Diabolical.

Kiss continues to get a free pass. Nine losses in 13. Bottom of their European group. Going backwards in terms of performance and player development. So what exactly is Kiss responsible for? If Doak and Clarke carry the can for performance and the players are responsible for on-field leadership and passion, what exactly does Les do?

And what's his track record of doing it successfully anywhere else?

Is Les Kiss the problem? Not so sure myself. I think Ulster could do well in appointing different and specialist coaches. I would almost suggest that Ulster do not have enough coaches compared to other big clubs.

eirebilly wrote:s Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

So do I. I can see him as being an Ireland contender in the next year or two, even with all the competition on the wings now.

profitius wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

So do I. I can see him as being an Ireland contender in the next year or two, even with all the competition on the wings now.

I would like to see him developed as a 15 myself, think he could learn a lot from Payne.

UlsterinKildare wrote:Went to the game yesterday. Unfortunately,  it just reinforced my opinions on the current state of Ulster rugby.

Diabolical.

Kiss continues to get a free pass. Nine losses in 13. Bottom of their European group. Going backwards in terms of performance and player development. So what exactly is Kiss responsible for? If Doak and Clarke carry the can for performance and the players are responsible for on-field leadership and passion, what exactly does Les do?

And what's his track record of doing it successfully anywhere else?

There are very few coaches out there with a successful track record, Pat Lams record at the Blues is 9th, 7th, 4th and 12th yet look what he has done at Connacht, Leo Cullen no track record, Erasmus no track record, guys like Ford and Cockerill had no track record yet won titles.

Where is he getting a free pass? For all we know he could have been told you get one season with new coaches and you're out if you dont get results

The problems we have are long standing and many of us saw coming years ago but our pack under Clarke have under performed and players actually seem to go backwards under him. The whole thing isnt helped by poor recruitment, Bryn for all his talk was the one who signed Piutau for a position we were well stocked and he is a player who for all his individual brilliance, seems to actually hamper the backline and seems less cohesive with him in the team.

The money spent on him could have been thrown at IQ backrowers which is what we are really screaming out for

I cant and probably never will understand why Ulster signed Piutau. A gret player, for sure, but he doesn't fit in at Ulster for me. He is not a team player, he is all about individual brilliance which when it works, looks great but when it doesn't (or half works) puts pressure on Ulster because he gets isolated and turned over far too often.

Don't get me wrong, I love individual brilliance but far too often the lads have absolutely no idea what Piutau is doing or where he is going so cannot get support to him fast enough. Great player but I would not have him in my team.

eirebilly wrote:I cant and probably never will understand why Ulster signed Piutau. A gret player, for sure, but he doesn't fit in at Ulster for me. He is not a team player, he is all about individual brilliance which when it works, looks great but when it doesn't (or half works) puts pressure on Ulster because he gets isolated and turned over far too often.

Don't get me wrong, I love individual brilliance but far too often the lads have absolutely no idea what Piutau is doing or where he is going so cannot get support to him fast enough. Great player but I would not have him in my team.

Sounds like Nico Matawalu when he was at Glasgow. Especially the bit about his team-mates having no idea what he was going to do next. These guys are great as impact players to change the game if necessary, but should never be used as 80 minute men.

eirebilly wrote:

profitius wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

So do I. I can see him as being an Ireland contender in the next year or two, even with all the competition on the wings now.

I would like to see him developed as a 15 myself, think he could learn a lot from Payne.

Stockdale played for the 'A' side yesterday in Jersey and scored a decent try

Stockdale Try

demosthenes wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I cant and probably never will understand why Ulster signed Piutau. A gret player, for sure, but he doesn't fit in at Ulster for me. He is not a team player, he is all about individual brilliance which when it works, looks great but when it doesn't (or half works) puts pressure on Ulster because he gets isolated and turned over far too often.

Don't get me wrong, I love individual brilliance but far too often the lads have absolutely no idea what Piutau is doing or where he is going so cannot get support to him fast enough. Great player but I would not have him in my team.

Sounds like Nico Matawalu when he was at Glasgow.  Especially the bit about his team-mates having no idea what he was going to do next.   These guys are great as impact players to change the game if necessary, but should never be used as 80 minute men.

Ding ding brother. You are absolutely bang on there

eirebilly wrote:Is Les Kiss the problem? Not so sure myself. I think Ulster could do well in appointing different and specialist coaches. I would almost suggest that Ulster do not have enough coaches compared to other big clubs.

Didnt Munster start the season with Jerry Flannery coaching their scrum and Foley the lineout? Whereas Ulster have Allen Clarke working with the forwards on everything

marty2086 wrote:

Stockdale played for the 'A' side yesterday in Jersey and scored a decent try

Stockdale Try

Good strength at the start of that run and some good diesel to finish it off. Really rate him highly.[/quote]

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Is Les Kiss the problem? Not so sure myself. I think Ulster could do well in appointing different and specialist coaches. I would almost suggest that Ulster do not have enough coaches compared to other big clubs.

Didnt Munster start the season with Jerry Flannery coaching their scrum and Foley the lineout? Whereas Ulster have Allen Clarke working with the forwards on everything

That's what I mean, Ulster just seem to be under staffed in specialist coaching to me.

eirebilly wrote:I have not seen a lot of Cooney but what I have seen impressed me so he could do well at Ulster.

Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

Cooney would have made a big difference yesterday, I believe.

No, Stockdale is fit. Have to think he would have offered more than Bowe, yesterday. I think Ulster have to face up to the fact that Bowe is done now, regardless of what Ferris says. Bowe's hasn't the pace anymore, as well demonstrated when he was caught by Madigan. Time to hang up the boots.

eirebilly wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I cant and probably never will understand why Ulster signed Piutau. A gret player, for sure, but he doesn't fit in at Ulster for me. He is not a team player, he is all about individual brilliance which when it works, looks great but when it doesn't (or half works) puts pressure on Ulster because he gets isolated and turned over far too often.

Don't get me wrong, I love individual brilliance but far too often the lads have absolutely no idea what Piutau is doing or where he is going so cannot get support to him fast enough. Great player but I would not have him in my team.

Sounds like Nico Matawalu when he was at Glasgow.  Especially the bit about his team-mates having no idea what he was going to do next.   These guys are great as impact players to change the game if necessary, but should never be used as 80 minute men.

Ding ding brother. You are absolutely bang on there

That's completely ridiculous, Piutau is one of the top players in the league. He is not a Matawalu type player. Matawalu was mercurial, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Piutau's fundamental's are outstanding. If his teammates struggle to keep up with him then what do you expect him to do? Intentionally stifle his own play? His teammates should be understanding that this is a guy who is likely to beat the first defender and be working tirelessly to support his runs.

Let me tell you, it doesn't just happen with Piutau either. How many times this year have we seen Stuart McCloskey looking desperately for someone to deliver the offload to after he breaks the gainline, only to have to pull the ball back in because nobody else is ready? It's a flaw in how the backline is coached. These players need to understand when somebody is likely to make a break and get in position to offer support.

Bowe is a legend but he does not have the same gas as once upon a time.

I would truly love to see Stockdale developed as a 15 munch, think he would be absolutely perfect for that.

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I have not seen a lot of Cooney but what I have seen impressed me so he could do well at Ulster.

Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

Cooney would have made a big difference yesterday, I believe.

No, Stockdale is fit. Have to think he would have offered more than Bowe, yesterday. I think Ulster have to face up to the fact that Bowe is done now, regardless of what Ferris says. Bowe's hasn't the pace anymore, as well demonstrated when he was caught by Madigan. Time to hang up the boots.

I wouldnt go as far to say he should hang up his boots he still has something to offer just not as a big game starter

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Is Les Kiss the problem? Not so sure myself. I think Ulster could do well in appointing different and specialist coaches. I would almost suggest that Ulster do not have enough coaches compared to other big clubs.

Didnt Munster start the season with Jerry Flannery coaching their scrum and Foley the lineout? Whereas Ulster have Allen Clarke working with the forwards on everything

That's what I mean, Ulster just seem to be under staffed in specialist coaching to me.

Are we that different to Munster?

Erasmus (Head Coach) Nieaber (Defense Coach) Foley (Scrum coach) Jones (Technical coach)

Ulster:

Kiss (DoR) Doak (Head coach/backs coach) Clarke (Forwards coach) Malone (Skills coach) Barakat was defense coach but ran away.

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I have not seen a lot of Cooney but what I have seen impressed me so he could do well at Ulster.

Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

Cooney would have made a big difference yesterday, I believe.

No, Stockdale is fit. Have to think he would have offered more than Bowe, yesterday. I think Ulster have to face up to the fact that Bowe is done now, regardless of what Ferris says. Bowe's hasn't the pace anymore, as well demonstrated when he was caught by Madigan. Time to hang up the boots.

I wouldnt go as far to say he should hang up his boots he still has something to offer just not as a big game starter

Yeah, you're probably right. We will give him until the end of the season

I would rather we gave the young guys a shot, rather than flogging our old war horses, though.

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Is Les Kiss the problem? Not so sure myself. I think Ulster could do well in appointing different and specialist coaches. I would almost suggest that Ulster do not have enough coaches compared to other big clubs.

Didnt Munster start the season with Jerry Flannery coaching their scrum and Foley the lineout? Whereas Ulster have Allen Clarke working with the forwards on everything

That's what I mean, Ulster just seem to be under staffed in specialist coaching to me.

Are we that different to Munster?

Erasmus (Head Coach) Nieaber (Defense Coach) Foley (Scrum coach) Jones (Technical coach)

Ulster:

Kiss (DoR) Doak (Head coach/backs coach)  Clarke (Forwards coach) Malone (Skills coach) Barakat was defense coach but ran away.

Foley was lineout coach and Flannery was scrum coach

Barakat dealt with attack and defence did he not?

Also Malone is an analyst as well as Skills coach whereas Munster have two full time analysts

Munchkin wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I have not seen a lot of Cooney but what I have seen impressed me so he could do well at Ulster.

Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

Cooney would have made a big difference yesterday, I believe.

No, Stockdale is fit. Have to think he would have offered more than Bowe, yesterday. I think Ulster have to face up to the fact that Bowe is done now, regardless of what Ferris says. Bowe's hasn't the pace anymore, as well demonstrated when he was caught by Madigan. Time to hang up the boots.

I wouldnt go as far to say he should hang up his boots he still has something to offer just not as a big game starter

Yeah, you're probably right. We will give him until the end of the season

I would rather we gave the young guys a shot, rather than flogging our old war horses, though.

I agree, Id actually prefer to see it more in the forwards than backs but Stockdale and Lyttle, especially Stockdale will hopefully get plenty of game time before the season is out

I also noticed Nelson is back in training, I wonder where or if he will fit in

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Is Les Kiss the problem? Not so sure myself. I think Ulster could do well in appointing different and specialist coaches. I would almost suggest that Ulster do not have enough coaches compared to other big clubs.

Didnt Munster start the season with Jerry Flannery coaching their scrum and Foley the lineout? Whereas Ulster have Allen Clarke working with the forwards on everything

That's what I mean, Ulster just seem to be under staffed in specialist coaching to me.

Are we that different to Munster?

Erasmus (Head Coach) Nieaber (Defense Coach) Foley (Scrum coach) Jones (Technical coach)

Ulster:

Kiss (DoR) Doak (Head coach/backs coach)  Clarke (Forwards coach) Malone (Skills coach) Barakat was defense coach but ran away.

Foley was lineout coach and Flannery was scrum coach

Barakat dealt with attack and defence did he not?

Also Malone is an analyst as well as Skills coach whereas Munster have two full time analysts

We also have an assistant analyst. Both Munster and Leinster have more S&C and Physio's than we do. Think with our rate of injuries we could probably add to that.

I'm not saying we shouldn't add to the coaching staff. We should, as well as replacing some.

Munster actually have 4 full time analysts (and 100,000 plus armchair genius'). We out do ye Ulster

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I have not seen a lot of Cooney but what I have seen impressed me so he could do well at Ulster.

Is Stockdale injured? I thought that yesterdays game was a perfect chance for him to get more big match experience, I rate him highly.

Cooney would have made a big difference yesterday, I believe.

No, Stockdale is fit. Have to think he would have offered more than Bowe, yesterday. I think Ulster have to face up to the fact that Bowe is done now, regardless of what Ferris says. Bowe's hasn't the pace anymore, as well demonstrated when he was caught by Madigan. Time to hang up the boots.

I wouldnt go as far to say he should hang up his boots he still has something to offer just not as a big game starter

Yeah, you're probably right. We will give him until the end of the season

I would rather we gave the young guys a shot, rather than flogging our old war horses, though.

I agree, Id actually prefer to see it more in the forwards than backs but Stockdale and Lyttle, especially Stockdale will hopefully get plenty of game time before the season is out

I also noticed Nelson is back in training, I wonder where or if he will fit in

I know there's question marks over Lyttle's defense, but he's a player that I believe could become a real star for Ulster, given the chance. We should see more of Lyttle and Stockdale next season though.
Agree on seeing more of our forward potential. If Clarke is replaced, I hope it's with someone who has a good eye for that potential.

We have really missed Nelson. Such a shame he was injured just when he was starting to sparkle. Hopefully he can, more or less, get back to that form in short time. I guess we will have to wait and see how much, if any, the injury will impact his play.

I was going to compare our staff list to Sale Sharks (i was looking at for a super rugby team to compare but got them)

RUGBY STAFF for Sale Sharks
Director of Rugby
Attack/Skills Coach
Defence Coach
Academy Transition Manager
Breakdown/Academy Transition Coach
Scrum Coach

PERFORMANCE STAFF
Head of Strength and Conditioning
Head of Sports Science/Senior Strength and Conditioning Coach
Head of Medical Services
Senior 1st XV Physiotherapist
Performance Analyst
Assistant Performance Analyst
Kit Manager
Assistant Kit Manager
Assistant Kit Manager
Physiotherapist
Performance Nutritionalist
Strength and Conditioning Coach
Academy Strength and Conditioning Coach
Strength and Conditioning Coach
Sports Rehabilitator
Team Manager
Performance Analyst Assistant
Strength & Conditioning Intern

Ulster have a large coaching staff too,

Ulster Professional Team Staff
Director of Rugby
Head Coach
Head of Strength and Conditioning
Medical Director
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Performance Analyst and Skills Coach
Assistant Performance Analyst
Head Physiotherapist
Soft Tissue Therapist
Strength and Conditioning Coach
Apprentice Strength and Conditioning Coach
GPS Analyst
Resources Manager
Resources Co-ordinator
Team Administrator


// Academy Staff
Academy Manager
Elite Player Development Officer/ Head Coach Ulster A
Elite Player Development Officer
Talent Development Officer
Talent Development Officer
Rep Team Performance Manager
Academy Lead Strength and Conditioning Coach
Strength and Conditioning Coach
Strength and Conditioning Coach
Apprentice Strength and Conditioning Coach
Performance Nutritionist
Academy Physiotherapist
Academy Doctor

there is also a large list covering DOMESTIC RUGBY OPERATIONS and DOMESTIC RUGBY DEVELOPMENT

JmD wrote:That's completely ridiculous, Piutau is one of the top players in the league. He is not a Matawalu type player. Matawalu was mercurial, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Piutau's fundamental's are outstanding. If his teammates struggle to keep up with him then what do you expect him to do? Intentionally stifle his own play? His teammates should be understanding that this is a guy who is likely to beat the first defender and be working tirelessly to support his runs.

Let me tell you, it doesn't just happen with Piutau either. How many times this year have we seen Stuart McCloskey looking desperately for someone to deliver the offload to after he breaks the gainline, only to have to pull the ball back in because nobody else is ready? It's a flaw in how the backline is coached. These players need to understand when somebody is likely to make a break and get in position to offer support.

Absolutely agree.

Piutau is one of the very best wingers in the game, if not the best playing in the Northern Hemisphere. To somehow blame him for any of Ulster's many shortcomings is bordering on the ridiculous.

We're damn lucky to have him. Piutau and Henderson are the only two Ulster players that would be looked upon enviously by any of the top French or English clubs.

And I'm still waiting on someone to please explain to me what exactly Les Kiss is responsible for at Ulster. Honestly.

How the DoR can simply pass the buck to (a) the coaches, and/or (b) the players, for poor performance, gameplanning and execution is beyond me.

I'd love a job which pays well but apparently comes with no responsibility or accountability.

UlsterinKildare wrote:

JmD wrote:That's completely ridiculous, Piutau is one of the top players in the league. He is not a Matawalu type player. Matawalu was mercurial, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Piutau's fundamental's are outstanding. If his teammates struggle to keep up with him then what do you expect him to do? Intentionally stifle his own play? His teammates should be understanding that this is a guy who is likely to beat the first defender and be working tirelessly to support his runs.

Let me tell you, it doesn't just happen with Piutau either. How many times this year have we seen Stuart McCloskey looking desperately for someone to deliver the offload to after he breaks the gainline, only to have to pull the ball back in because nobody else is ready? It's a flaw in how the backline is coached. These players need to understand when somebody is likely to make a break and get in position to offer support.

Absolutely agree.

Piutau is one of the very best wingers in the game,  if not the best playing in the Northern Hemisphere. To somehow blame him for any of Ulster's many shortcomings is bordering on the ridiculous.

We're damn lucky to have him. Piutau and Henderson are the only two Ulster players that would be looked upon enviously by any of the top French or English clubs.

Nobody is blaming Piutau for Ulster's shambles. It's mostly the coaches being blamed, followed by a weak pack.

UlsterinKildare wrote:And I'm still waiting on someone to please explain to me what exactly Les Kiss is responsible for at Ulster. Honestly.

How the DoR can simply pass the buck to (a) the coaches,  and/or (b) the players, for poor performance,  gameplanning and execution is beyond me.

I'd love a job which pays well but apparently comes with no responsibility or accountability.

As far as I know the DoR does the same job as Humphs did. In other words, he doesn't really coach much. He's supposed to be a defense coach, but brought in Barakat for that job. Now Barakat has left, the job is shared between the coaches, or so I have read.

When Humphs was with us as DoR, who got blamed for poor games? Anscombe (head coach) or Humphs (DoR)? It was Anscombe, and rightly so.

eirebilly wrote:Munster actually have 4 full time analysts (and 100,000 plus armchair genius'). We out do ye Ulster

Well, that's just too many analysts. Nucifora should send one of them to us, along with your defense coach

UlsterinKildare wrote:

JmD wrote:That's completely ridiculous, Piutau is one of the top players in the league. He is not a Matawalu type player. Matawalu was mercurial, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Piutau's fundamental's are outstanding. If his teammates struggle to keep up with him then what do you expect him to do? Intentionally stifle his own play? His teammates should be understanding that this is a guy who is likely to beat the first defender and be working tirelessly to support his runs.

Let me tell you, it doesn't just happen with Piutau either. How many times this year have we seen Stuart McCloskey looking desperately for someone to deliver the offload to after he breaks the gainline, only to have to pull the ball back in because nobody else is ready? It's a flaw in how the backline is coached. These players need to understand when somebody is likely to make a break and get in position to offer support.

Absolutely agree.

Piutau is one of the very best wingers in the game,  if not the best playing in the Northern Hemisphere. To somehow blame him for any of Ulster's many shortcomings is bordering on the ridiculous.

We're damn lucky to have him. Piutau and Henderson are the only two Ulster players that would be looked upon enviously by any of the top French or English clubs.

No one is blaming Piutau but his signing was unnecessary and has taken up resources that would be better used elsewhere. Theres no point having a great player if you have a poor team and Piutau is not clicking with the rest of the team.

Too many people overlook his mistakes that they dont let other players away with, he constantly tries to offload when it isnt on. When Big Nick did it he got slated by many people.

marty2086 wrote:

UlsterinKildare wrote:

JmD wrote:That's completely ridiculous, Piutau is one of the top players in the league. He is not a Matawalu type player. Matawalu was mercurial, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Piutau's fundamental's are outstanding. If his teammates struggle to keep up with him then what do you expect him to do? Intentionally stifle his own play? His teammates should be understanding that this is a guy who is likely to beat the first defender and be working tirelessly to support his runs.

Let me tell you, it doesn't just happen with Piutau either. How many times this year have we seen Stuart McCloskey looking desperately for someone to deliver the offload to after he breaks the gainline, only to have to pull the ball back in because nobody else is ready? It's a flaw in how the backline is coached. These players need to understand when somebody is likely to make a break and get in position to offer support.

Absolutely agree.

Piutau is one of the very best wingers in the game,  if not the best playing in the Northern Hemisphere. To somehow blame him for any of Ulster's many shortcomings is bordering on the ridiculous.

We're damn lucky to have him. Piutau and Henderson are the only two Ulster players that would be looked upon enviously by any of the top French or English clubs.

No one is blaming Piutau but his signing was unnecessary and has taken up resources that would be better used elsewhere. Theres no point having a great player if you have a poor team and Piutau is not clicking with the rest of the team.

Too many people overlook his mistakes that they dont let other players away with, he constantly tries to offload when it isnt on. When Big Nick did it he got slated by many people.

Totally agree, and also with the above that the buck stops with Kiss.

"Piutau is one of the very best wingers in the game, if not the best playing in the Northern Hemisphere. To somehow blame him for any of Ulster's many shortcomings is bordering on the ridiculous. "

Not one person has blamed Piutau for Ulster's shortcomings. The discussion on whether he's a good fit or not is on a different topic that the 'what's wrong at Ulster' one.

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

UlsterinKildare wrote:

JmD wrote:That's completely ridiculous, Piutau is one of the top players in the league. He is not a Matawalu type player. Matawalu was mercurial, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Piutau's fundamental's are outstanding. If his teammates struggle to keep up with him then what do you expect him to do? Intentionally stifle his own play? His teammates should be understanding that this is a guy who is likely to beat the first defender and be working tirelessly to support his runs.

Let me tell you, it doesn't just happen with Piutau either. How many times this year have we seen Stuart McCloskey looking desperately for someone to deliver the offload to after he breaks the gainline, only to have to pull the ball back in because nobody else is ready? It's a flaw in how the backline is coached. These players need to understand when somebody is likely to make a break and get in position to offer support.

Absolutely agree.

Piutau is one of the very best wingers in the game,  if not the best playing in the Northern Hemisphere. To somehow blame him for any of Ulster's many shortcomings is bordering on the ridiculous.

We're damn lucky to have him. Piutau and Henderson are the only two Ulster players that would be looked upon enviously by any of the top French or English clubs.

No one is blaming Piutau but his signing was unnecessary and has taken up resources that would be better used elsewhere. Theres no point having a great player if you have a poor team and Piutau is not clicking with the rest of the team.

Too many people overlook his mistakes that they dont let other players away with, he constantly tries to offload when it isnt on. When Big Nick did it he got slated by many people.

Totally agree, and also with the above that the buck stops with Kiss.

Of course the buck stops with Kiss but is Kiss the problem or is our continual slide into the lower reaches of the league symptomatic of the rot that's been in Ulster for too long. Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team. If this fails then we can blame him but at the moment the problem lies deeper within Ulster. The 'jobs for the boys' time ended a long time ago, it took the sides mediocrity for certain people to see that. Lets judge Kiss when he's been given a fair chance and not been weighed down by a coaching team that evidently isn't fit for purpose.

Check 5:25. Look at the space out wide. Can't make out who it is. Piutau surely has to throw that over the defender who has come in. For me, a prime example who how he thinks he himself is the best option, too many  times in a game.

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

clivemcl wrote:Check 5:25. Look at the space out wide. Can't make out who it is. Piutau surely has to throw that over the defender who has come in. For me, a prime example who how he thinks he himself is the best option, too many  times in a game.

Personally think that is quite harsh. I don't think an intercept would necessarily have happened, but I think he did the right thing by holding onto the ball as it wasn't a 100% gimme pass. Also note his workrate to get into that position having fielded the high kick on the other wing just a couple of phases earlier.

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

When did either Anscombe or McLaughlin challenge the status quo? Anscombe got the job over other candidates because he was willing to work with those already in place, wasn't Penney also a contender but wanted to make changes?

Kiss is the one wanting change

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

But then McLaughlin and Anscombe were head coaches, not DoR. Not that I would complain if Kiss was replaced. Things have gone from bad to worse since Kiss took over.

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

When did either Anscombe or McLaughlin challenge the status quo? Anscombe got the job over other candidates because he was willing to work with those already in place, wasn't Penney also a contender but wanted to make changes?

Kiss is the one wanting change

McLaughlin IMO was a yes man and was hardly innovative. If he was of such high quality why hasn't he been snapped up elsewhere? Anscombe, another yes man who was the only candidate for the post willing to work with the current coaching setup. Getting to a final isn't something you can put in a trophy room. Kiss is being afforded the chance now, I can only assume, because the cracks or so huge now that nobody can paper over them any more. If we somehow end up in the top four and make the playoffs will we all of a sudden have no problems. If we got to the Pro12 final would we call this season successful?

Munchkin wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

But then McLaughlin and Anscombe were head coaches, not DoR. Not that I would complain if Kiss was replaced. Things have gone from bad to worse since Kiss took over.

Cunningham was brought in to take on some of Humphreys old responsibilities, dealing with contracts and recruitment, which is what a DoR is for.

kiss does selection and tactics - he's the head coach in all but name.

He is fully accountable for everything bar the fact he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

On a different topic, how long is Olding out for?

rodders wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

But then McLaughlin and Anscombe were head coaches, not DoR. Not that I would complain if Kiss was replaced. Things have gone from bad to worse since Kiss took over.

Cunningham was brought in to take on some of Humphreys old responsibilities, dealing with contracts and recruitment, which is what a DoR is for.

kiss does selection and tactics - he's the head coach in all but name.

He is fully accountable for everything bar the fact he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

You might be right, but I have doubts. Selection isn't a massive issue, and Kiss isn't the one coaching the dross we see on the pitch. He could still be responsible for tactics, I suppose, but it doesn't make sense to me if he's not actually involved in the coaching.

Did a little bit of calculating, of our form over the first 12 games for the last 6 years. It really is a mixed bag. The worst points total was 2011/12 when we went on to reach the Heineken Cup Final, maybe we'll do the same....never mind

marty2086 wrote:Did a little bit of calculating, of our form over the first 12 games for the last 6 years. It really is a mixed bag. The worst points total was 2011/12 when we went on to reach the Heineken Cup Final, maybe we'll do the same....never mind

The least TBP in past five years sticks out to me.

Edit: In fairness, we have Treviso twice and Zebre still to play.

clivemcl wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Did a little bit of calculating, of our form over the first 12 games for the last 6 years. It really is a mixed bag. The worst points total was 2011/12 when we went on to reach the Heineken Cup Final, maybe we'll do the same....never mind

The least TBP in past five years sticks out to me.

Edit: In fairness, we have Treviso twice and Zebre still to play.

I think at this stage in all but one of the previous seasons we had only one game against the Italians, even that year we lost to Zebre

rodders wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote: Kiss is being afforded the chance to prove his worth now by allowing him to set up his own coaching team.

And why is getting this when his two much more successful predecessors didn't get this chance.

Both Anscombe and McLaughin took us to finals and were shown the door. Kiss loses 9 games and gets to pick a new coaching team. This is the worst run since 2008.

That is the rot, that only yes men are tolerated, those who actually innovate and challenge the status quo get scapegoated and shown the door

But then McLaughlin and Anscombe were head coaches, not DoR. Not that I would complain if Kiss was replaced. Things have gone from bad to worse since Kiss took over.

Cunningham was brought in to take on some of Humphreys old responsibilities, dealing with contracts and recruitment, which is what a DoR is for.

kiss does selection and tactics - he's the head coach in all but name.

He is fully accountable for everything bar the fact he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

This.

DoR is a title, but the responsibilities for various roles can and have been split very differently from Humphreys time. The buck stops with whoever has final say on team selections. Humphreys didn't pick the team, Kiss in this instance does.

Piutau is sublime. He may well be the best winger in Europe at the minute. But what people are saying is, is he value for money if our backs are playing on the backfoot?

Could his £XXX,XXX salary not have been spent on say Conan. Sure we'd be making a prospect with only 1 international cap one of the highest paid players in the UK, maybe even the world. But it's more aligned with what we need rather than what is ... amazing as Piutau is, a nice to have.

Appreciate Conan turned us down, but did we offer him Piutau wages? Should we have?

That's not a slight on Bryn. He's a keeper and has done extremely well, but we need to ensure our signings marry up to a) the game plan and b) our current squad needs.

Redman wrote:Piutau is sublime.  He may well be the best winger in Europe at the minute.  But what people are saying is, is he value for money if our backs are playing on the backfoot?

Could his £XXX,XXX salary not have been spent on say Conan.  Sure we'd be making a prospect with only 1 international cap one of the highest paid players in the UK, maybe even the world.  But it's more aligned with what we need rather than what is ... amazing as Piutau is, a nice to have.  

Appreciate Conan turned us down, but did we offer him Piutau wages?  Should we have?

That's not a slight on Bryn.  He's a keeper and has done extremely well, but we need to ensure our signings marry up to a) the game plan and b) our current squad needs.  

I agree. Mind you everyone on here were crying out for backrow signings this time last year. Charles is definately a nice to have, not a need to have.