1872 Cup 2016: Edinburgh (holders) vs Glasgow - Boxing Day

[EWT Spoons]

Right lads and ladies, it’s that time of year where we forget that we all generally get along and put aside our similarities to embrace petty differences.  It’s what Jesus would have wanted.  (other religious symbols/figureheads are available).

                    

Edinburgh Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors
26 December 2016

Kick off: 16:05

Venue: Home of Scottish rugby
TV: Alba (of course)

Referee: [tbc]
Assistant Referees: [tbc]
Citing Commissioner: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

Form:

Glasgow have some
Edinburgh less so

Previous Winners:

2007–08	28 December 2007	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	35–31	Glasgow	Glasgow  54–49
	11 April 2008	Firhill Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	23–14	Edinburgh
2008–09	26 December 2008	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	39–6	Glasgow	Edinburgh  59–31
	2 January 2009	Firhill Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	25–20	Edinburgh
2009–10	27 December 2009	Firhill Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	25–12	Edinburgh	Glasgow  47–27
	2 January 2010	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	15–22	Glasgow
2010–11	27 December 2010	Firhill Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	30–18	Edinburgh	Glasgow  47–46
	2 January 2011	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	28–17	Glasgow
2011–12	26 December 2011	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	23–23	Glasgow	Glasgow  40–35
	1 January 2012	Firhill Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	17–12	Edinburgh
2012–13	21 December 2012	Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	23–14	Edinburgh	Glasgow  44–31
	29 December 2012	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	17–21	Glasgow
2013–14	26 December 2013	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	16–20	Glasgow	Glasgow  57–50
	26 April 2014	Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	37–34	Edinburgh
2014–15	27 December 2014	Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow	Glasgow	16–6	Edinburgh	Edinburgh  26–24
	2 January 2015	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	20–8	Glasgow
2015–16	27 December 2015	Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh	Edinburgh	23–11	Glasgow	Edinburgh  37–22

Teams:

Edinburgh Rugby 

Blair Kinghorn, Damien Hoyland, Chris Dean, Phil Burleigh, Tom Brown, Duncan Weir, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford, Simon Berghan, Ben Toolis, Grant Gilchrist, Magnus Bradbury, Hamish Watson, Cornell du Preez.
Replacements: Stuart McInally, Allan Dell, Murray McCallum, Fraser McKenzie, Viliame Mata, Sean Kennedy, Jason Tovey, Glenn Bryce.

Glasgow Warriors

Stuart Hogg, Junior Bulumakau, Mark Bennett, Alex Dunbar, Lee Jones, Finn Russell, Henry Pyrgos; Alex Allan, Fraser Brown, Zander Fagerson, Brian Alainu'uese, Jonny Gray, Rob Harley, Simone Favaro, Josh Strauss.
Replacements: Pat McArthur, Ryan Grant, Sila Puafisi, Adam Ashe, Chris Fusaro, Ali Price, Nick Grigg, Sean Lamont.

[RDW]

Given current form surely the only outcome of this game is an easy Glasgow BP win?

Edinburgh's attack has improved dramatically but the good bits about the Solomons regime - set piece and defence - seem to have been completely forgotten.

Stade's backs ripped us to shred and I fear that Glasgow's will do the same.

I'm going to go for a Glasgow BP and nothing for Edinburgh, but we expected the same to happen the last 2 years as well!

[George Carlin]

[bsando]

I'm expecting lots of trys and some big hits. Love these fixtures and they often surprise as well. Expecting Warriors to win both but wouldn't be surprised if Edinburgh manage to win one or both.

[EWT Spoons]

Edinburgh seem to be going on a win one lose one sequence so far.  Especially applicable when we're playing a team who should beat us. Given our next two fixtures are Glasgow (team who should beat us) followed up by Zebre (a team we should beat)  Therefore only one possible outcome of this game.

1872 cup is staying put.   That is unless Weir starts, in which case all bets are off and we're looking at a record number of intercept tries with seymour getting into double figures.

[EST]

A home win for each team, call it the Christmas spirit.

[R!skysports]

This year Glasgow are too far down the able to provide their usual present of an ego massage to our bouffanted neighbors

Come on Glasgow, no more of this fodder for the one trick showing off pony of our Cup

[funnyExiledScot]

Edinburgh to win by 50 points.

[funnyExiledScot]

Who added this "like" nonsense?? It's terrible.

[George Carlin]

Edinburgh to win by five Moral Points. 

But lose by 24 Actual Points.

[RDW]

This is the tamest 1872 thread we've ever had on here.

Where's Jimbo when you need him??

[Hazel Sapling]

Depends on how Toony wants to play this. Treviso are next week away so players can be rested against them before bringing everyone back for the tune-up match with Cardiff.

Fagerson, Reid, Brown, Russell, Hogg, Seymour, Dunbar, Price, Harley and Jonny will all need a game off before Munster. I would rather split the break between Edinburgh and Treviso rather than rest everyone in Italy.

I would drop Swinson to the bench for Brian and Wilson should drop out as well. Both looked like they took small knocks against Racing and there are reasonable replacements for them. Bennett should come in and will want to prove he should start the Munster game.

[TJ]

Hard to call as the league has gone for both teams really so only finishing above the other matters. also Glasgow have the uero cup to bother about - Edinburgh only have the minnows cup and shouldn't pay too much attention to that. so I expect Glasgow to rest players and Edinburgh to put out nearer a full strength side. Edinburgh to win!

[RDW]

Hard to call as the league has gone for both teams really so only finishing above the other matters.  also Glasgow have the uero cup to bother about - Edinburgh only have the minnows cup and shouldn't pay too much attention to that.  so I expect Glasgow to rest players and Edinburgh to put out nearer a full strength side.  Edinburgh to win!

Glasgow are currently 4th in the table - I don't think it is overly accurate to say that the league is gone for them! They are certainly putting more focus on Europe but, given that Glasgow peak towards the end of the season, a Top 4 spot is still very much achievable for Glasgow and they should have more than enough for Top 6. A lot will come down to how they cope in the 6N period - they didn't do very well during the AIs.

Strangely despite how crap Edinburgh have been they are only 9 points off 6th place - it would be a minor miracle for us to make that up but there is still plenty to play for! Maybe the move to Fortress Myreside will make all the difference...

[funnyExiledScot]

This is the tamest 1872 thread we've ever had on here.

Where's Jimbo when you need him??

I think the Great Unwashed are just accepting defeat this year. Can we lift the ban on Schizoid for the next few days, just for a festive laugh?

For some reason when I watch Bad Santa (comfortably the best Christmas movie of all time, after Die Hard II), the Billy Bob Thornton character is exactly how I picture Schizoid.

[TJ]

So we have a plan. Glasgow let Edinburgh win with try bonus points, We let Glasgow have try bonus points and losing bonus points, we aim for Glasgow and Edinburgh in the top half of the league. Win / win!

[Hazel Sapling]

RDW, where are you getting that table from?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/pro12/table

Glasgow can still make top 4 but it is uphill. Once they are there though, anything can happen. Edinburgh's goal is to get above Dragons and another team whilst developing players for next season (Kinghorn, Ras, Hoyland, Dean, Berghan, McCallum, Bradbury, Ritchie)

[RDW]

RDW, where are you getting that table from?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/pro12/table

Glasgow can still make top 4 but it is uphill. Once they are there though, anything can happen. Edinburgh's goal is to get above Dragons and another team whilst developing players for next season (Kinghorn, Ras, Hoyland, Dean, Berghan, McCallum, Bradbury, Ritchie)

The Edinburgh website, which it would appear is completely wrong!

OK things aren't looking quite as good for both teams, but I still think Glasgow have more than enough to get back into the Top 4. If they aren't careful they may have a fight on their hands for Top 6 so they still need to put focus on the league.

[tigertattie]

Stats don't lie folks!

Jonny Gray, having played something like a million minutes of pro rugby without missing a tackle missed two at the weekend! This shows that he is losing form and as he is the only Glasgow forward that's actually any good, this loss of form will result in Edinburgh retaining the cup.

CDP and Bradbury will both be playing and both will show Strauss and Wilson what carrying and ball playing actually looks like. Bradbury and CDP will be having a private bet to see which of them can break out of a jonny Gray tackle the most!

Other than Jonny Gray (who we've seen is losing form quicker than a racehorse with a broken leg) , the glasgow pack is devoid of talent! Without a decent pack, teams will always struggle against opponents who actually know the fundamentals of rugby!

Of course Glasgow have Hogg, but as we've seen time and time again from Edinburgh, if you don't let Glasgow have the ball, then Hogg becomes redundant is is actually a defensive liability!

Glasgow also have Finn Russell who is one of the flakiest stand offs ever to play the game. He's the one Scotland player who is defiantly the least talented in his position among the home nations and won't be going on any lions tour!

Glasgow only have two glimmers of light!

1. Duncan Weir now plays for Edinburgh and could start
2. Sean Lamont

Not only will Edinburgh wrap up a nice win in this game but we'll also save a few quid not having to restock the soap in the away changing rooms! Double win!

[RDW]

Other than the copious use of !s, that's more like it tattie!

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

I'm a little concerned that after 80 minutes of being carried about in 21 year old Magnus Bradbury's pocket Josh Strauss may be so humiliated that he actually cries on live TV.

Always uncomfortable viewing watching a fully grown man in floods of tears, especially when they're that beardy

[EWT Spoons]

Stats don't lie folks!

Jonny Gray, having played something like a million minutes of pro rugby without missing a tackle missed two at the weekend! This shows that he is losing form and as he is the only Glasgow forward that's actually any good, this loss of form will result in Edinburgh retaining the cup.

CDP and Bradbury will both be playing and both will show Strauss and Wilson what carrying and ball playing actually looks like. Bradbury and CDP will be having a private bet to see which of them can break out of a jonny Gray tackle the most!

Other than Jonny Gray (who we've seen is losing form quicker than a racehorse with a broken leg) , the glasgow pack is devoid of talent! Without a decent pack, teams will always struggle against opponents who actually know the fundamentals of rugby!

Of course Glasgow have Hogg, but as we've seen time and time again from Edinburgh, if you don't let Glasgow have the ball, then Hogg becomes redundant is is actually a defensive liability!

Glasgow also have Finn Russell who is one of the flakiest stand offs ever to play the game. He's the one Scotland player who is defiantly the least talented in his position among the home nations and won't be going on any lions tour!

Glasgow only have two glimmers of light!

1. Duncan Weir now plays for Edinburgh and could start
2. Sean Lamont

Not only will Edinburgh wrap up a nice win in this game but we'll also save a few quid not having to restock the soap in the away changing rooms! Double win!

I'm sure that was a typo, but a part of me really hopes it wasn't.

[George Carlin]

Brilliant that Edinburgh fans, whose team is currently on 14 points, believes that they will hammer Glasgow a team that is currently on 27 points. 

That said, this is indeed bald men / comb related fisticuffs territory and I think that Glasgow are going to struggle to make up what is currently a 5 point deficit between them, Ulster and Scarlets. They do finish strongly but if you watched the Toulon-Scarlets match it is not obviously that Scarlets or Ulster will fall away towards the end of the season as they have done lately. 

I suspect we will see the trustafarians do what they always do which is to have the game of their lives against Glasgow, and then crow about how awesome that makes them as they slide slowly into a league oblivion. 

Does Glasgow have any answer to the might of Duncan Weir? That's the question.

[George Carlin]

If Weir is selected, does that mean that he'll have to step down from the top of the Edinburgh clubhouse Christmas tree where he is currently sitting?

[RDW]

Brilliant that Edinburgh fans, whose team is currently on 14 points, believes that they will hammer Glasgow a team that is currently on 27 points. 

That said, this is indeed bald men / comb related fisticuffs territory and I think that Glasgow are going to struggle to make up what is currently a 5 point deficit between them, Ulster and Scarlets. They do finish strongly but if you watched the Toulon-Scarlets match it is not obviously that Scarlets or Ulster will fall away towards the end of the season as they have done lately. 

I suspect we will see the trustafarians do what they always do which is to have the game of their lives against Glasgow, and then crow about how awesome that makes them as they slide slowly into a league oblivion. 

Does Glasgow have any answer to the might of Duncan Weir? That's the question.

If it wasn't for the last 2 years (where we were similarly as bad, and Glasgow were similarly as good) this point would be valid but somehow we've managed to win 3 of the last 4 games against a high flying Glasgow team!

[tigertattie]

Brilliant that Edinburgh fans, whose team is currently on 14 points, believes that they will hammer Glasgow a team that is currently on 27 points. 

That said, this is indeed bald men / comb related fisticuffs territory and I think that Glasgow are going to struggle to make up what is currently a 5 point deficit between them, Ulster and Scarlets. They do finish strongly but if you watched the Toulon-Scarlets match it is not obviously that Scarlets or Ulster will fall away towards the end of the season as they have done lately. 

I suspect we will see the trustafarians do what they always do which is to have the game of their lives against Glasgow, and then crow about how awesome that makes them as they slide slowly into a league oblivion. 

Does Glasgow have any answer to the might of Duncan Weir? That's the question.

If it wasn't for the last 2 years (where we were similarly as bad, and Glasgow were similarly as good) this point would be valid but somehow we've managed to win 3 of the last 4 games against a high flying Glasgow team!

Watch your use of !!!'s there RDW!

The Mods are Watching!

You can never be too careful!

[RDW]

The difference being that my post warranted an expression of exclamation.

[R!skysports]

I foresee that there will be a rush on hair gel, as the Edinburgh get into some serious training for the match. They know that this is the only chance they have each year to be photographed in a winning photo, so will spend Christmas praying that Santa brings them some new nail files.

There may even be a delegation sent to wales to see what the best spray tan is to bring out their eyes. Slight concern may be felt when Weir is given a scarf at Christmas, but does not know where to wear it, having no neck. But the team spirit of the team will come to the rescue and they will drop everything and send their man servants to create a ball cosey out of the scarf.

Their minds will then move to the game, and they will then realise that they forgot the all important 'matching sock to cup' ensemble and be thrown off they game and lose by 4 tries to 1

Their respective thrashing in the changing room after the game will ensure that the staff still receive their lump of coal and the players quickly forget about rugby (as they have been practicing that all year)

Glasgow get a wee bit merry and decide it is a great idea to head to a Kabab shop in fancy dress

[Hazel Sapling]

Come on GC, Glasgow can make up a 1 bonus point win gap on Ulster and Scarlets with 12 games to go. The injury crisis at lock will abate with Cummings, Uanivi and Peterson returning in the near future. It is never easy to get top 4. All it takes is a loss of form at a busy period or injuries and a couple of teams could drop behind us.

12 points from the next 3 matches would have us in the thick of things. That would mean beating Edinburgh (sans Nel, Bresler and a defense), Treviso (realistically a 3rd choice line-up would go close) and Cardiff at home (in a warm-up match for Munster with everyone wanting to prove a point). That could quickly become 15 points.

Of course if we lose to Edinburgh on Monday, we might as well settle for top 6 and winning the Euro Cup after the entire Sarries team gets ill at the Edinburgh hotel the night before.

[RDW]

Probable Edinburgh team:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Berghan
4 Toolis
5 Gilchrist (Jonny will be quaking in his boots)
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 CDP

9 SHC
10 Weir
11 Brown
12 Burleigh
13 Allan
14 Hoyland
15 Kinghorn

[tigertattie]

Probable Edinburgh team:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Berghan
4 Toolis
5 Gilchrist (Jonny will be quaking in his boots)
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 CDP

9 SHC
10 Weir
11 Brown
12 Burleigh
13 Allan
14 Hoyland
15 Kinghorn

Strauss and Wilson will be having sleepless nights about that backrow

Edinburgh can win this game. All our players need to do is injure weir in training before the game.

[cakeordeath]

Unlike last time we cannot afford to be generous to Edinburgh and let them win the cup, I know it's the only highlight of the year, but we have our league position to think about now.

[R!skysports]

Probable Edinburgh team:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Berghan
4 Toolis
5 Gilchrist (Jonny will be quaking in his boots)
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 CDP

9 SHC
10 Weir
11 Brown
12 Burleigh
13 Allan
14 Hoyland
15 Kinghorn

Strauss and Wilson will be having sleepless nights about that backrow

Edinburgh can win this game. All our players need to do is injure weir in training before the game.

Not really. They took apart better teams backrows than that....racing tried and failed to bully us

[RDW]

Although our backrow looks good on paper I don't think we're functioning well as a unit. Bradbury and Watson have stood out as individuals - Manu and CDP less so - but we're still not performing well as a pack I don't think.

On paper that pack looks pretty good, but I'm yet to be convinced it is as good as we hope/think it is.

[tigertattie]

Why do you think our pack isn't firing on all cylinders?

is it because Bresler is not there to guide things?

Or maybe Mike Coman actually did play an important leadership role?

[RDW]

I do think Bresler is badly missed and although Coman isn't in the same class as the current options at 6/8 he did fulfill a specific role that meant the backrow had balance.

Bresler and Coman would hit rucks all day, get stuck in at mauls and just do the dirty stuff. That freed up the likes Toolis, CDP, Watson etc to be our main carriers.

Toolis and Gilchrist are too similar - both are number 5 locks - and I think McKenzie should start instead of Gilchrist to give us better balance.

That leaves Bradbury, CDP and Manu who are similair types of players - big physical carriers, aggressive in defence but do they give the balance? I don't think it's there yet.

[tigertattie]

what do you regard as a No 5 lock?

[RDW]

Lineout jumper, more athletic - think Victor Matfield compared to Bakkies Botha who is a traditional number 4.

It is perhaps a slightly out of date concept now, especially when you look at the top lock combos in the world, but it is all about having a balanced partnership and I don't think Toolis/Gilchrist gives us that. Similarly Bresler/McKenzie doesn't give us that.

[jimbopip]

I do think Bresler is badly missed and although Coman isn't in the same class as the current options at 6/8 he did fulfill a specific role that meant the backrow had balance.

Bresler and Coman would hit rucks all day, get stuck in at mauls and just do the dirty stuff.  That freed up the likes Toolis, CDP, Watson etc to be our main carriers.

Toolis and Gilchrist are too similar - both are number 5 locks - and I think McKenzie should anyone could start instead of Gilchrist to give us better balance.

That leaves Bradbury, CDP and Manu who are similair types of players - big physical jessies handbag carriers, aggressively absent in defence but do they give the balancea flying fecc? I don't think so... courage; it's not there yet.

[RDW]

There he is!

[Hazel Sapling]

Are you saying you miss a ginger 6 who hits rucks all day?

Bresler I think is the big player missing this year for Edinburgh. He brings a nasty attitude and the desire to be a pri*k to the opposition. No other player really comes across as wanting a brawl. Toolis and Watson are the closest which sums it up. The pack individually is great for Edinburgh and the backs poor. I would say the play in the last month has seen a role reversal when I have been watching (admittedly not too often, I am not that much of a masochist).

Glasgow team I would like to see

Allan
Flynn
Fagerson
Brian
Gray
Harley
Favaro/Fusaro
Strauss

Price
Russell
Jones (who was excellent against Racing after an iffy first 5 minutes in the first game)
Johnson
Bennett
Seymour
Hogg

Malcolm
Reid
Puafisi
Swinson
LangiLangi
Pyrgos
Grigg
Junior

[funnyExiledScot]

If Weir is selected, does that mean that he'll have to step down from the top of the Edinburgh clubhouse Christmas tree where he is currently sitting?

You'd need a giant sequoia to withstand that sort of weight....

[tigertattie]

Lineout jumper, more athletic - think Victor Matfield compared to Bakkies Botha who is a traditional number 4.

It is perhaps a slightly out of date concept now, especially when you look at the top lock combos in the world, but it is all about having a balanced partnership and I don't think Toolis/Gilchrist gives us that.  Similarly Bresler/McKenzie doesn't give us that.

interesting!

1 big heavy tall bloke
1 tall slimmer jumping bloke

How do you stack them for balance in the scrum though? A lighter loosehead in front of the bulkier lock and a heavier tightead in front of the athletic lock? Or are locks like backrows and you have the faster lock on the openside?

When I played second row, I just played on whatever side the other lock didn't want to play on!

[RDW]

Lineout jumper, more athletic - think Victor Matfield compared to Bakkies Botha who is a traditional number 4.

It is perhaps a slightly out of date concept now, especially when you look at the top lock combos in the world, but it is all about having a balanced partnership and I don't think Toolis/Gilchrist gives us that.  Similarly Bresler/McKenzie doesn't give us that.

interesting!

1 big heavy tall bloke
1 tall slimmer jumping bloke

How do you stack them for balance in the scrum though? A lighter loosehead in front of the bulkier lock and a heavier tightead in front of the athletic lock? Or are locks like backrows and you have the faster lock on the openside?

When I played second row, I just played on whatever side the other lock didn't want to play on!

Another interesting discussion point! In the not so distant past the number 4 lock would scrum behind the tighthead to give extra ballast (Euan Murray said that Jim Hamilton pushing behind him made his job a lot easier).  Now however you often see teams going it the other way round - the bigger, heavier lock behind the loosehead (Richie Gray for Scotland).  I'm certainly no expert on scrums but I wonder if the idea is that the tighthead's job is just to hold things steady, and the loosehead and hooker, in tandem with the heavy lock, can attack the opposition tighthead?

Not all teams to it but the majority of teams now have their heavy lock behind the loosehead.

I don't think speed has anything to do with it - it takes locks quite a while to untangle themselves from the scrums so there's no point in choosing sides based on who is quicker.

[George Carlin]

I'm not sure that Edinburgh fans are fully aware of this yet, but you're all going down like a one legged fellow in an arse kicking competition.

[TJ]

No were are ot - we have a cunning plan involving buckfast and a foam party. You won't even make it onto the pitch

[cakeordeath]

I'm not sure that Edinburgh fans are fully aware of this yet, but you're all going down like a one legged fellow in an arse kicking competition.

They don't have that far to fall!

[RDW]

I'm not sure that Edinburgh fans are fully aware of this yet, but you're all going down like a one legged fellow in an arse kicking competition.

They don't have that far to fall!

But also,

[tigertattie]

What do you call a Glasgow player with a 1872 cup winners medal?

Retired!

[cakeordeath]

What do you call a Glasgow player with a 1872 cup winners medal?

Retired!

What do you can an Edinburgh player with a pro 12 league medal......an ex Glasgow player.

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