Aviva Premiership - Round 11

First topic message reminder :

Table

POS	TEAM	-PL-	-W-	-D-	-L-	-PF-	-PA-	-DIFF-	-TF-	-TA-	-TB-	-LB-	-PTS-
1	Saracens	10	8	0	2	262	116	146	30	9	4	2	38
2	Wasps	10	8	0	2	319	205	114	40	23	5	0	37
3	Bath Rugby	10	8	0	2	235	135	100	24	13	2	1	35
4	Leicester Tigers	10	7	0	3	247	196	51	23	21	2	1	31
5	Exeter Chiefs	10	5	1	4	276	205	71	34	25	5	3	30
6	Harlequins	10	5	0	5	206	237	-31	22	28	2	1	23
7	Newcastle Falcons	10	5	0	5	168	238	-70	19	28	1	2	23
8	Gloucester Rugby	10	3	2	5	228	217	11	25	26	3	4	23
9	Northampton Saints	10	4	0	6	170	192	-22	14	15	1	3	20
10	Sale Sharks	10	3	1	6	191	245	-54	22	27	3	1	18
11	Worcester Warriors	10	1	2	7	171	309	-138	20	33	1	1	10
12	Bristol Rugby	10	0	0	10	138	316	-178	16	41	0	4	4

Fixtures

So, we come to the halfway point in the season with the following games:

Friday 23rd December

19:45 Northampton Saints v Sale Sharks (BT Sport)
Since their last win (18th November) Saints have lost at home to Falcons, away to neighbours Leicester and been thrashed twice by Leinster. Throw in controversy around George North, Dylan Hartley (and other red cards) and rumours of a failed big money approach to Pat Lam and it is fair to say they have not enjoyed a pleasant end to the year. Pressure on Mallinder and West continues to mount, and another home defeat could possibly provide the final nail/straw (insert platitude as desired). They should be too strong for a Sale team who have been struggling to provide a platform from the pack and have seen their new 10s struggle to manage the game with any consistency. Sale’s losing streak extends back to October and usually you would not bet on them changing that. However if they can show the spirit demonstrated last week against a Saracen’s team that can justifiably be called the best in Europe, then they could cause the depression to deepen at the Gardens.


Saturday 24th December

13:30 Saracens v Newcastle Falcons (BT Sport)
After starting the season looking very staid and ordinary, Falcons have started to play with a bit more panache. This had been helped by ditching Delaney, and Socino hitting a hot streak of form at 12. Come down with the right attitude and they could scare the champions, but ultimately fall short of gaining any points from the fixture with Globogym asserting their muscularity in the final quarter.
Of course, much depends on the teams selected by DORs McCall and Richards. The Sarries boss may see this as a game calling for rotation, while away from home Deano has chosen some strange line-ups.


14:00 Wasps v Bath (BT Sport)
At full strength this would be a mouth-watering contest. However both sides have had some significant injuries, and do not have the depth of squad that fellow title contenders Saracens have to allow for easy replacement. Too hard to call, but at home Wasps should have too much.

15:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers
Both sides are struggling for consistent form. At times this season Leicester have been spineless on their travels and it is hard to see anything other than a Chiefs win.


Monday 26th December

Bristol v Worcester (BT Sport)
BT meet their contractual obligations to visit every side by featuring this “derby”. Having finally won a match during the last Euro window, Bristol will be looking to build on recent hard working performances that have garnered them a couple of LBPs into a win over fellow struggles Worcester. This does feel like a real must win game for Bristol. Lose and the gap grows to double figures against a side that will be welcoming back influential players very soon. Win however and they are right on Wuss’s coattails.


Tuesday 27th December

16:00 Harlequins v Gloucester (BT Sport)
The BIG Match. Slightly hidden away though on a gloomy midweek afternoon but could be a real cracker. Yet again Gloucester have been consistent only in their inconsistency – yet Quins have not been far behind following stunning wins (over Sarries) with dire performaces (away to Wasps). Their home form is good, and they should expect to win this game. I look forward to seeing Robshaw against Moriarty.

ChequeredJersey wrote:What was Clifford's card even for?!

I'm not wholly certain. Looked like open play to me. Helped even out the final play balls up I suppose.

The problem with having Monye and Dayglo commentate is that neither seems to have a particularly strong grasp of the laws of the game. Hence you get no real discussion on instances like that.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Also why are we so bad at kicking the ball out when the clock goes dead?!

This!

1. I kind of wanted us to to go all Hail Mary and either kick long or run it to try to get the try bp.

2. If not then please get it off the pitch, was having flashbacks to that Saints game!

Also got to say well done to Clifford, I've been a bit skeptical of him at 8 but that performance was brilliant. Best he's put in for Quins.

Synkler too was outstanding. Especially when you think they were up against various AB and Welsh Internationals.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:What was Clifford's card even for?!

I'm not wholly certain. Looked like open play to me. Helped even out the final play balls up I suppose.

The problem with having Monye and Dayglo commentate is that neither seems to have a particularly strong grasp of the laws of the game. Hence you get no real discussion on instances like that.

The penalty was one thing I think JPD actually got right - and given the location/line break a yellow was probably fair.  I believe it wasn't 'open play' as a tackle had been made and Clifford came in from the wrong side - it's not just mauls/rucks where you have to come through the gate.

Pretty sure you can intercept an offlaod from offside, and technically speaking it is illegal to offload off the floor...

JPD said he came into the tackle zone on the wrong side I think which sounds correct as he was directly behind the tackled player - and I'm not sure where the idea about offloading off the floor being illegal comes from - the laws say the tackled player must pass or release the ball immediately - to me passing means offloading?

Can't believe I'm defending JPD.

There's no offside line drawn at a tackle. Offside lines occur from kicks, rucks, mauls and set pieces. Now if JP felt that the Glaws player entering the tackle area was barged our of the way by Clifford and so stopped from creating the ruck. Maybe it's a penalty. If it's a penalty then it has to be a yellow card because of the position on the field and the momentum in the attack.

Not sure I agree - and apparently neither does Mr D ... if you agree catching the ball is playing it ...

At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.

So I'm not saying he was offside like from a ruck etc, but a player still has to approach the tackle zone 'through the gate' - unless they're the tackler and they've got back to their feet immediately ...

Heaf wrote:Can't believe I'm defending JPD.

Consider it a result of the season of goodwill. You can be back to moaning at him in September.

- I can't wait til September though ...

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Also why are we so bad at kicking the ball out when the clock goes dead?!

This!

1. I kind of wanted us to to go all Hail Mary and either kick long or run it to try to get the try bp.

2. If not then please get it off the pitch, was having flashbacks to that Saints game!

And strictly for the record, speaking for Saints supporters globally - we appreciated what you did for us and look forward to doing it again.  
And again.  
And again..............

Well we are still waiting for you boys to reciprocate Doc!

LondonTiger wrote:

Heaf wrote:Can't believe I'm defending JPD.

Consider it a result of the season of goodwill. You can be back to moaning at him in September.

Assuming all goes well...

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Heaf wrote:Can't believe I'm defending JPD.

Consider it a result of the season of goodwill. You can be back to moaning at him in September.

Assuming all goes well...

Just wait until JP takes charge of the Championship Playoff upset...

Oh that's mean ...

yappysnap wrote:Well we are still waiting for you boys to reciprocate Doc!

We won't fail to kick it out, we will simply not tackle against Quins and not attack. Oh wait...........

formerly known as Sam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Heaf wrote:Can't believe I'm defending JPD.

Consider it a result of the season of goodwill. You can be back to moaning at him in September.

Assuming all goes well...

Just wait until JP takes charge of the Championship Playoff upset...

Holy cow.  Just realised there is a game today.  

Also just realised today is Friday - see what happens not working for a while with no structure to the week at all (or maybe just age induced indolence).

And Newcastle have started making it interesting............

Phew very relieved with the win in the end!
A quick turn around & resting a few players nearly did for Wasps tonight.
Will happily take the 10 points in 6 days though.

doctor_grey wrote:Holy cow.  Just realised there is a game today.  

Also just realised today is Friday - see what happens not working for a while with no structure to the week at all (or maybe just age induced indolence).

Tell me about it - I've forgotten to do Superbru picks twice in the last week ...

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Phew very relieved with the win in the end!
A quick turn around & resting a few players nearly did for Wasps tonight.
Will happily take the 10 points in 6 days though.

Ah so resting a few players made it difficult Yeah??!!...no credit to us for giving you a game...even though we missed quite a few through injury ourselves ???!!!

If Hodgson could kick could have been a different result too ...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Phew very relieved with the win in the end!
A quick turn around & resting a few players nearly did for Wasps tonight.
Will happily take the 10 points in 6 days though.

Ah so resting a few players made it difficult Yeah??!!...no credit to us for giving you a game...even though we missed quite a few through injury ourselves ???!!!

The Falcons were excellent Geordie & well deserved their 2 points & possibly more. They have a solid team ideally suited for that pitch.
Resting/rotating Launch/Myall in the 2nd row & not starting Cips with Gopps makes a difference to the way we play. The risk management worked but only just.

What was the score gents?

yappysnap wrote:What was the score gents?

30-34 Yappy - 4 tries a piece. 3 a piece in the first half. Cracking game for a neutral but too close for comfort for me

Sounds it!

Just seen the Worcester team to play Quins. Must be perhaps 2 academy players in it. Then the majority of the rest are NEQ.

Warriors
15 Josh Adams
14 Dean Hammond
13 Ben Te'o
12 Jackson Willison
11 Cooper Vuna
10 Ryan Mills
9 Michael Dowsett
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Jack Singleton
3 Nick Schonert
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Darren Barry
6 Dewald Potgieter (C)
7 Sam Lewis
8 Alafoti Faosiliva

Replacements
16 Jaba Bregvadze
17 Na'ama Leleimalefaga
18 Biyi Alo
19 Tevita Cavubati
20 Phil Dowson
21 George de Cothi
22 Connor Braid
23 Wynand Olivier

Missed the Falcons match but it sounds like the lads did well. Two bonus points is an okay return against the top of the table side. A good performance and a decent sized crowd too. Lots of things to be pleased about. Reckon we're pretty much safe now and can pull away from the relegation dog fight.

yappysnap wrote:Just seen the Worcester team to play Quins. Must be perhaps 2 academy players in it. Then the majority of the rest are NEQ.

Warriors
15 Josh Adams
14 Dean Hammond
13 Ben Te'o
12 Jackson Willison
11 Cooper Vuna
10 Ryan Mills
9 Michael Dowsett
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Jack Singleton
3 Nick Schonert
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Darren Barry
6 Dewald Potgieter (C)
7 Sam Lewis
8 Alafoti Faosiliva

Replacements
16 Jaba Bregvadze
17 Na'ama Leleimalefaga
18 Biyi Alo
19 Tevita Cavubati
20 Phil Dowson
21 George de Cothi
22 Connor Braid
23 Wynand Olivier

It is a pretty poor effort EQP wise, but I find it difficult to criticise Worcester for this sometimes because any time the bring through a promising young English player, other clubs come circling.  They have been picked clean over the years.  It is already happening again with Ruskin and you can guarantee it will happen with Shilcock if they get relegated.


Off the top of my head they could have had the bones of a decent pack (probably missed a few too).

01. Matt Mullan
02.
03.
04.
05. Graham Kitrchener
06. Tom Wood
07. Matt Kvesic
08.

Arguably could have included Dylan Hartley as Worcester was his first professional English club, but he wan't there that long.

Could see Bath and Leicester looking at Shilcock if their 10's move on (Ford and Williams).

Dunno Welly. If Williams goes we'll want a front line flyhalf to compete with Burns. Burns has not been immune to injuries and drifting out of games. Shillcock is really only an option if we can also get hold of an experienced controlling 10. More likely if Williams decides to go we'll step up our attempts to bring back Ford and use Burns as a 10/15.

We've got Hardwick coming through and he's rated highly.