US presidential elections

SecretFly wrote:Dennis McDonough, White House Chief of Staff:

“My hope would be that the president-elect would reach out to somebody as consequential as somebody who is such a leader as John Lewis.  That would be the kind of thing that would not only send a message to the American people that we’re prepared to work together, but would also send a message to the Russians that we are united. Their efforts to divide us, to weaken us, to advance their own interests at the expense of ours, are going to fail.”

This was spoken in the context of 23 Democrats, including the regal John Lewis, refusing to go to the inauguration...supposedly on account of Trump being a Russian stooge and only winning because the Russians told millions of Americans to vote for him.

That's a tough challenge for Trump so.  Just how is he meant to write that 'Reaching-Out' invite?

"Dear Noble Non-Partisan Democrats of the other Party that lost the election.  Please come to my Party on Friday.  Even though the Russians are paying me to dismantle this Great Nation brick by brick, and goading me to use those bricks to build my Mexican funded wall, I think you're right that we should put up a front and pretend we all hate the Russians.  

After my glitzy Inauguration (with genuine stars showing up when your presence gives them the ideological green light) we could agree to hold a joint press conference; me at one microphone and my great pal, McCain standing behind me - but not close enough to stab me in the back again.

Hillary Clinton could be at the other microphone with you, John Leiws, behind her (she doesn't want Biden there as his touchy feely ways send shivers down her spine) and I could outline how great a President I was right before renouncing my Presidency as a Russian created scam and offering my resignation.  

Hopefully, this pleading, private, top-secret letter - that you will now send straight to CNN for public scrutiny - is enough to swing you and ensure that you are there to pat me on the back and congratulate me on the shortest Presidency in the history of this Great United Sovie............., United Union of.....,  United States of Russ..............,  the USA."

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Yeah, right. So it's OK to say anything at all now because it's "as you feel it"?

em......................................... yeah.

It happens here, doesn't it?  

Someone wilfully insults you and you're meant to just suck it up because the guy was a great 'iconic' figure of the Civil Rights movement?  Does that make him a God?  Criticism of the old soldier-of-conscience is blasphemy?
Too many people here are way too inclined towards censorship of opinion for my liking.  Do you realise how dangerous the concept even is?  Sometimes I think not.

:yawn: Of course I realise. Trump could have made a mature comment on Lewis not attending his inauguration, but no, of course he couldn't because he's a stupid man-child who was born with a gilded spoon up his arse and doesn't have the word 'diplomacy' in his lexicon.

As to the idea that you can say what you like, what planet are you on? How about some of the lovely white supremacists start off with their Nazi anti-Semitic bollox? How about someone in the U.K. start mouthing off about 'retards' and eugenics? It's OK right? It's "how they feel". Don't be ridiculous. Trump, as Pres-Elect, is showing zero responsibility for how his utterances might encourage those kind of A-holes. Same here with Farage and his despicable nonsense during the Brexit campaign. He's NOT just any old man in the street.

navyblueshorts wrote:
Don't be stupid. If there's a job going in Team Trump's PR department, you'd fit right in.

I would hope that Trump, as incoming POTUS, would be bigger than this - at the end of the day, those 23 are going to be lumbered with him in any case. He could spike their guns easily, but he's so ignorant all he can do is post puerile tweets and rant about f---ing 'fake news'.

navyblueshorts wrote:
Don't be stupid. If there's a job going in Team Trump's PR department, you'd fit right in.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Yeah, right. So it's OK to say anything at all now because it's "as you feel it"?

em......................................... yeah.

It happens here, doesn't it?  

Someone wilfully insults you and you're meant to just suck it up because the guy was a great 'iconic' figure of the Civil Rights movement?  Does that make him a God?  Criticism of the old soldier-of-conscience is blasphemy?
Too many people here are way too inclined towards censorship of opinion for my liking.  Do you realise how dangerous the concept even is?  Sometimes I think not.

:yawn: Of course I realise. Trump could have made a mature comment on Lewis not attending his inauguration, but no, of course he couldn't because he's a stupid man-child who was born with a gilded spoon up his arse and doesn't have the word 'diplomacy' in his lexicon.

As to the idea that you can say what you like, what planet are you on? How about some of the lovely white supremacists start off with their Nazi anti-Semitic bollox? How about someone in the U.K. start mouthing off about 'retards' and eugenics? It's OK right? It's "how they feel". Don't be ridiculous. Trump, as Pres-Elect, is showing zero responsibility for how his utterances might encourage those kind of A-holes. Same here with Farage and his despicable nonsense during the Brexit campaign. He's NOT just any old man in the street.

The people mostly using put-down personal insult language in these threads through a litany of topics (Brexit, USA election and others) happen to be the boys that dislike Farage, Brexit and Trump.  Go do a 'fact check' on the percentages of the Trump-stuff comments and which camps they mostly came from.  Don't give me that crap about all you boys being lovely diplomatic-language-loving choir boy prudes.  The stain of battle is red with the blood of rosy language and put-downs here.  

I'd say to both you, Lewis and the rest of the easily offended souls who allegedly despise a raw point being dug into the ribs and twisted... grow up.  This is the real world.  If you don't want to get hit in the guts with a sarcastic line or three then don't be a smart-ass in giving them. Oh and there are already nations where the easily offended have their ears protected by the caring censorship of their National governments - a myriad of Middle Eastern nations would be one bunch, China would be another and Russia would be on the list too.  So lots of options there for emigration to less colourful language Nations....or places where language might get you executed.

So -- Holier than thou bullschidt from the Millennial Democrat and Monster-Raving-Loony Anti-Brexit Party, navy.  It doesn't stack up.  

On to Diplomacy.  Diplomacy is the art of keeping your genuine opinions from the silly people that voted for you.  Didn't Clinton say as much in one of those famous leaks?  One opinion for the intelligent business, finance and political controlling classes, and another bland-soup public opinion for the heedless Kardashian fans.
Kiss a-ss to the leader of such and such a country in public (for the diplomacy Optics) as your boys in the 'intelligence' agencies go about their work trying to distabilise that very country and leader behind his or her back.  
Go around saying that you're against the evil Isis boys and dead set on bringing all of them to justice but at the same time studiously avoiding dropping a killer blow on their power bases for years, their 'intelligence channels', their methods of sophisticated propaganda (VERY sophisticated - almost governmental in its slickness   ), their oil selling channels, their people smuggling units, their routes to and from their power bases, their finance channels, their easy marches through Europe without passports, with many KNOWN aliases, with tons of electronic surveillance, with little formal education.... but still moving around Europe and wherever they want to turn up with always the police 'scratching their heads' and wondering how they are doing it....

Yes, believe the dream given to you from your official truth circles, and get ragingly serially offended by the usual gulps of twitterese from Trump.  I don't care.  Go at it big time.  But you'll be glad to hear that I won't be sitting with you on that sheep train.

Pr4wn wrote:When you start your rather incoherent rant with "but, but, but the mud-slinging happens on your side too!" then this rather detracts from whatever point you're trying to make. Though, it's always hard to tell with you as you rarely make any sense.

Basically, Lewis did not personally insult Trump, rather he questioned the legitimacy of his election due to the DNC being compromised by a foreign power. This is nothing personal at all. The fact that Trump took it personally, made his Twitter rant personal and didn't realise the glaring hypocrisy in what he was saying is what is worrying.

SecretFly wrote:...the rest of the easily offended souls who allegedly despise a raw point being dug into the ribs and twisted... grow up.  

JuliusHMarx wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...the rest of the easily offended souls who allegedly despise a raw point being dug into the ribs and twisted... grow up.  

I hope Trump takes heed of your advice.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Yeah, right. So it's OK to say anything at all now because it's "as you feel it"?

em......................................... yeah.

It happens here, doesn't it?  

Someone wilfully insults you and you're meant to just suck it up because the guy was a great 'iconic' figure of the Civil Rights movement?  Does that make him a God?  Criticism of the old soldier-of-conscience is blasphemy?
Too many people here are way too inclined towards censorship of opinion for my liking.  Do you realise how dangerous the concept even is?  Sometimes I think not.

:yawn: Of course I realise. Trump could have made a mature comment on Lewis not attending his inauguration, but no, of course he couldn't because he's a stupid man-child who was born with a gilded spoon up his arse and doesn't have the word 'diplomacy' in his lexicon.

As to the idea that you can say what you like, what planet are you on? How about some of the lovely white supremacists start off with their Nazi anti-Semitic bollox? How about someone in the U.K. start mouthing off about 'retards' and eugenics? It's OK right? It's "how they feel". Don't be ridiculous. Trump, as Pres-Elect, is showing zero responsibility for how his utterances might encourage those kind of A-holes. Same here with Farage and his despicable nonsense during the Brexit campaign. He's NOT just any old man in the street.

The people mostly using put-down personal insult language in these threads through a litany of topics (Brexit, USA election and others) happen to be the boys that dislike Farage, Brexit and Trump.  Go do a 'fact check' on the percentages of the Trump-stuff comments and which camps they mostly came from.  Don't give me that crap about all you boys being lovely diplomatic-language-loving choir boy prudes.  The stain of battle is red with the blood of rosy language and put-downs here.  

I'd say to both you, Lewis and the rest of the easily offended souls who allegedly despise a raw point being dug into the ribs and twisted... grow up.  This is the real world.  If you don't want to get hit in the guts with a sarcastic line or three then don't be a smart-ass in giving them. Oh and there are already nations where the easily offended have their ears protected by the caring censorship of their National governments - a myriad of Middle Eastern nations would be one bunch, China would be another and Russia would be on the list too.  So lots of options there for emigration to less colourful language Nations....or places where language might get you executed.

So -- Holier than thou bullschidt from the Millennial Democrat and Monster-Raving-Loony Anti-Brexit Party, navy.  It doesn't stack up.  

On to Diplomacy.  Diplomacy is the art of keeping your genuine opinions from the silly people that voted for you.  Didn't Clinton say as much in one of those famous leaks?  One opinion for the intelligent business, finance and political controlling classes, and another bland-soup public opinion for the heedless Kardashian fans.
Kiss a-ss to the leader of such and such a country in public (for the diplomacy Optics) as your boys in the 'intelligence' agencies go about their work trying to distabilise that very country and leader behind his or her back.  
Go around saying that you're against the evil Isis boys and dead set on bringing all of them to justice but at the same time studiously avoiding dropping a killer blow on their power bases for years, their 'intelligence channels', their methods of sophisticated propaganda (VERY sophisticated - almost governmental in its slickness   ), their oil selling channels, their people smuggling units, their routes to and from their power bases, their finance channels, their easy marches through Europe without passports, with many KNOWN aliases, with tons of electronic surveillance, with little formal education.... but still moving around Europe and wherever they want to turn up with always the police 'scratching their heads' and wondering how they are doing it....

Yes, believe the dream given to you from your official truth circles, and get ragingly serially offended by the usual gulps of twitterese from Trump.  I don't care.  Go at it big time.  But you'll be glad to hear that I won't be sitting with you on that sheep train.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Don't be stupid. If there's a job going in Team Trump's PR department, you'd fit right in.

I would hope that Trump, as incoming POTUS, would be bigger than this - at the end of the day, those 23 are going to be lumbered with him in any case. He could spike their guns easily, but he's so ignorant all he can do is post puerile tweets and rant about f---ing 'fake news'.

So come on then super analyst.  How does an illegiimate, Russian agent Trump do a 'reaching out' trick on Lewis and his clan?  What could he possibly say that would make Leiws cough and splutter that he didn't really mean that he thought Trump was illegitimate and that Russia put him in office?

For me...there is plenty Trump could say to have Lewis eating from his hand again.  But that's the joke.  It wouldn't take much for Lewis to relent at all because the truth is he isn't being sincere anyway.  He's saying what he's saying to serve his own Political interests.

navyblueshorts wrote:
Instead of writing an opus on BS, why don't you write something that anyone else can give a **** about replying to? I simply can't be bothered to read this and make head or tail of it and then frame a reply.

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

So come on then super analyst.  How does an illegiimate, Russian agent Trump do a 'reaching out' trick on Lewis and his clan?  What could he possibly say that would make Leiws cough and splutter that he didn't really mean that he thought Trump was illegitimate and that Russia put him in office?

For me...there is plenty Trump could say to have Lewis eating from his hand again.  But that's the joke.  It wouldn't take much for Lewis to relent at all because the truth is he isn't being sincere anyway.  He's saying what he's saying to serve his own Political interests.

As for this scheiss, it should be easy for Trump (or someone who can speak/write English) to pen an approach about how Trump was the elected President, will of the people, bygones be bygones and all that and how his inauguration represents (as someone else said) the peaceful transfer of power to the next elected Head of State and isn't (or shouldn't be) about Trump, the man. He could say he'll go along with any investigations into Russia's manipulation (or not) of the electoral process. He could write about how he'd value their input etc etc in taking America forward and improving things for everyone etc etc. He could say he respects Lewis and his stance re. the inauguration but hopes he'd reconsider and discuss it with him over a beer. Basically, use diplomatically calm language to point out that their absence from his inauguration is petty.

To be fair though, Trump's been so inflammatory/insulting from the word go that you might have a point - he can't reach out in any meaningful way, which is something that's entirely his own fault. His language is stoking issues instead of doing that 'bridge building'. If he can make what are, generally, thoughtful and intelligent people give him the finger, just think what he's doing for/to those less inclined/able to have a considered reaction to his nonsense.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Instead of writing an opus on BS, why don't you write something that anyone else can give a **** about replying to? I simply can't be bothered to read this and make head or tail of it and then frame a reply.

Oh you read it okay  But you didn't like it.  A bee sting.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

So come on then super analyst.  How does an illegiimate, Russian agent Trump do a 'reaching out' trick on Lewis and his clan?  What could he possibly say that would make Leiws cough and splutter that he didn't really mean that he thought Trump was illegitimate and that Russia put him in office?

For me...there is plenty Trump could say to have Lewis eating from his hand again.  But that's the joke.  It wouldn't take much for Lewis to relent at all because the truth is he isn't being sincere anyway.  He's saying what he's saying to serve his own Political interests.

As for this scheiss, it should be easy for Trump (or someone who can speak/write English) to pen an approach about how Trump was the elected President, will of the people, bygones be bygones and all that and how his inauguration represents (as someone else said) the peaceful transfer of power to the next elected Head of State and isn't (or shouldn't be) about Trump, the man. He could say he'll go along with any investigations into Russia's manipulation (or not) of the electoral process. He could write about how he'd value their input etc etc in taking America forward and improving things for everyone etc etc. He could say he respects Lewis and his stance re. the inauguration but hopes he'd reconsider and discuss it with him over a beer. Basically, use diplomatically calm language to point out that their absence from his inauguration is petty.

To be fair though, Trump's been so inflammatory/insulting from the word go that you might have a point - he can't reach out in any meaningful way, which is something that's entirely his own fault. His language is stoking issues instead of doing that 'bridge building'. If he can make what are, generally, thoughtful and intelligent people give him the finger, just think what he's doing for/to those less inclined/able to have a considered reaction to his nonsense.

So in order words the Lewis schmaltz about Trump being an illegitimate President was only added petrol to keep the golden showers burning?  

Nice.  

Why doesn't he just man up and 'reach out' by admitting that and saying he accepts Trump was voted in by the American people, using the system they've used to vote in many Presidents before him.

He made the initial accusation, let him come back with the tail between his legs.

navyblueshorts wrote:
No, not 'in other words' anything. Jesus wept! Yes, let him and others stew (if that's what you want) and realise they're being petty BUT don't lower yourself to the same (or lower, in Trump's case) by posting utterly pathetic and puerile tweets FFS. Rise above it - you're President-elect of the United States. Show you're worthy of the role.
He may prove different in reality, but he's not looking good so far.

SecretFly wrote:

The Moral Highground arrives with perfect timing.  (TopHat I'm referring to)

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Instead of writing an opus on BS, why don't you write something that anyone else can give a **** about replying to? I simply can't be bothered to read this and make head or tail of it and then frame a reply.

Oh you read it okay  But you didn't like it.  A bee sting.

Nah. I didn't get much beyond the first sentence or two and then gave up. You're your own worst enemy.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

The Moral Highground arrives with perfect timing.  (TopHat I'm referring to)

Just checking in to see if you'd given a straight answer to a straight question yet.

Will check back again tomorrow.....

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Instead of writing an opus on BS, why don't you write something that anyone else can give a **** about replying to? I simply can't be bothered to read this and make head or tail of it and then frame a reply.

Oh you read it okay  But you didn't like it.  A bee sting.

Nah. I didn't get much beyond the first sentence or two and then gave up. You're your own worst enemy.

You just don't like reading 'Fake' news, navy ... you're afraid it's a disease, like your official boys keep telling you.  "Don't look at the alternative view!  It's insidious.  It's leprosy!  It's contagious!  It fries the brain!  It puts you off your Soaps and Reality Shows!  It's Communistic-Fascism!

No wonder Clinton can get away with her diverse public and private opinions.

navyblueshorts wrote:
Nah. Given your belief (apparently) in "Pizzagate" as fact, I think it's you that has a problem with disease. Infected by an Internet meme - as Trump would tweet: "Sad!". My immune system is fine.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Nah. Given your belief (apparently) in "Pizzagate" as fact, I think it's you that has a problem with disease. Infected by an Internet meme - as Trump would tweet: "Sad!". My immune system is fine.

The official 'Russian provided' e-mails are genuine, the paintings are true, the photos are true, the people concerned in the issue are real and many of the downright WEIRD 'entertainment' connections are true.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Nah. Given your belief (apparently) in "Pizzagate" as fact, I think it's you that has a problem with disease. Infected by an Internet meme - as Trump would tweet: "Sad!". My immune system is fine.

The official 'Russian provided' e-mails are genuine, the paintings are true, the photos are true, the people concerned in the issue are real and many of the downright WEIRD 'entertainment' connections are true.

You've seen the paintings and photos?

Edit- what I mean is - e.g. the mural (assuming the online picture is the same as the one that got painted over) - you thought it looked dodgy or dangerous in some way, as opposed to avant garde or interesting artistically?

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Nah. Given your belief (apparently) in "Pizzagate" as fact, I think it's you that has a problem with disease. Infected by an Internet meme - as Trump would tweet: "Sad!". My immune system is fine.

The official 'Russian provided' e-mails are genuine, the paintings are true, the photos are true, the people concerned in the issue are real and many of the downright WEIRD 'entertainment' connections are true.  
How long did it take to skin Savile?  Three or four decades and conveniently after he died? - as he and his big child-friendly 'Fix-it' chair had pride of place in the home of the most respected News Network on the planet?

Right under their noses - a fake news story - right there amongst them saying hello to world-class investigative journalists in the hallways and lobbies of the great noble institution for decades.

Even ever-cynical Louis Theroux managed to keep a straight face when he said he never suspected Savile hid such secrets, even though he was famous for interviewing weird people because they are weird, even though Jimmy certainly proved himself weird in the famous documentary and even though Theroux brought the subject up in his very documentary.  But no...he never knew Jimmy was actually that weird, did Louis

Jimmy was a lone wolf that was never assisted or protected through his long career?  Jimmy was only 'exposed' when he was safely dead and wasn't about to crow like a bird in the dock about people he might have shared his secret passions with?  How well might politicians protect themselves?  

Like I said, you stay on the sheep bus if that makes you more comfortable.

SecretFly wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Nah. Given your belief (apparently) in "Pizzagate" as fact, I think it's you that has a problem with disease. Infected by an Internet meme - as Trump would tweet: "Sad!". My immune system is fine.

The official 'Russian provided' e-mails are genuine, the paintings are true, the photos are true, the people concerned in the issue are real and many of the downright WEIRD 'entertainment' connections are true.

You've seen the paintings and photos?

Edit- what I mean is - e.g. the mural (assuming the online picture is the same as the one that got painted over) - you thought it looked dodgy or dangerous in some way, as opposed to avant garde or interesting artistically?

I saw most of everything that has been made public for now (have you?) and have come to the conclusion that there are WAY too many coincidences for my liking.  Way too many coincidences, Julius.  The picture you refer to looked weird in a child friendly eating joint that Always stated "ALL ages", even on its most Adult of entertainment nights.

But when I talk about the topic I'm not referring to one building or one man.  I'm referring to the sequence of miraculous coincidences in the common flavour these disparate people (from entertainers, to artists, to restaurant owners to political advisor/funders) find to link them.  

If you call the paintings/art in the home of a man who has advised and led the political campaigns of famous politicians merely avant garde, then fine - that's your conclusion.  It isn't mine.  And I'll go back to Savile.  How long was he allowed do what he did?  And how did he exist in plain sight for so long when even a mad whacky punk rocker could see the light and add one and one in the 70s?

navyblueshorts wrote:
Better that than the Loony Tunes Express...

navyblueshorts wrote:
Just because Savile hid in plain sight for so long, it doesn't always mean that several coincidences add up to a covered up bad person ring. You know, lots of coincidences can happen....

JuliusHMarx wrote:How far do you take coincidences? One could argue that your interest in it is excessive and reach one's own conclusion about you - if one wanted to make a conspiracy of it.

Have you spoken to the people involved, asked their view? Spoken to the artists and asked why they painted those pictures, and researched other people who bought similar paintings?

I find your idea of 'miraculous coincidences' to be ludicrous. You do know what confirmation bias is?

Every rational person is against paedophilia, but witch-hunts and pitchforks aren't rational actions. Social media creates a baying mob who lose their ability to judge.

SecretFly wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:How far do you take coincidences? One could argue that your interest in it is excessive and reach one's own conclusion about you - if one wanted to make a conspiracy of it.

Have you spoken to the people involved, asked their view? Spoken to the artists and asked why they painted those pictures, and researched other people who bought similar paintings?

I find your idea of 'miraculous coincidences' to be ludicrous. You do know what confirmation bias is?

Every rational person is against paedophilia, but witch-hunts and pitchforks aren't rational actions. Social media creates a baying mob who lose their ability to judge.

You know what a cover-up is?

On the details.  I expect the police/FBI to do these things.  And I still expect the police to do these things.  They may very well be doing these things in the background.  I'll wait to find out.  And I'm not alone in the waiting.  And I won't be forgetting.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Better that than the Loony Tunes Express...

Still afraid to go look?  Afraid you might start to doubt the official Fake news line?

JuliusHMarx wrote:Conspiracy theorist - "They're guilty, and it's a big cover-up"
Neutral - "But there's no actual evidence"
Conspiracy theorist - "Exactly!"

JuliusHMarx wrote:Basically seems to be making stuff up. Unless, of course, you believe Trump and not the press, and the evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38707722

Galted wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Basically seems to be making stuff up. Unless, of course, you believe Trump and not the press, and the evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38707722

Looks the same to me, there's just a lot more Klan members standing at the back for the Trump inauguration.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Galted wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Basically seems to be making stuff up. Unless, of course, you believe Trump and not the press, and the evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38707722

Looks the same to me, there's just a lot more Klan members standing at the back for the Trump inauguration.

It's all good in the hood.

GSC wrote:Day 2 and already attacking the media for showing pictures showing more people turned up to Obama's inauguration.

No other words than embarrassing.