Aviva Premiership Round 12 - The second half begins..........

Just realised London Tiger has not performed his duty to country and Her Royal Majesty  Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas Queen, Defender of the Faith (Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Magnae Britanniae, Hiberniae et terrarum transmarinarum quae in ditione sunt Britannica Regina, Fidei Defensor) by creating the Aviva Premiership Round 12 forum.  
Such dereliction of duty, though a severe act of malfeasance, can be excused by too much holiday cheer, too little holiday cheer, having daughters (they give orders which cannot be disobeyed), having to work, or family obligations.  


I present myself, your humble servant, as an unworthy (ie. sh!tty)replacement for this week.  

 

	Team	P	W	D	L	Pts
1	Wasps	12	10	0	2	47
2	Saracens	11	9	0	2	42
3	Bath	11	8	0	3	36
4	Exeter	11	6	1	4	35
5	Leicester	11	7	0	4	31
6	Harlequins	11	6	0	5	27
7	Newcastle	12	5	0	7	25
8	Northampton	11	5	0	6	24
9	Gloucester	11	3	2	6	24
10	Sale	11	3	1	7	18
11	Worcester	11	1	2	8	10
12	Bristol	11	1	0	10	8

 

31-Dec-16
19:25 (GMT)	Aviva Premiership	Newcastle	Wasps
31-Dec-16
15:00 (GMT)	Aviva Premiership	Bath	Exeter Chiefs
1-Jan-17
14:30 (GMT)	Aviva Premiership	Sale Sharks	Bristol
15:00 (GMT)	Aviva Premiership	Worcester Warriors	Harlequins
15:00 (GMT)	Aviva Premiership	Gloucester	Northampton Saints
15:00 (GMT)	Aviva Premiership	Leicester Tigers	Saracens

I predict Newcastle-Wasps will be a great match, with Newcastle coming out very strong alsmost as if Wasps were still in their holiday cups.  Then sure as the tide encroaches on the beach Wasps will come back, take the lead, giving another opportunity for Newcastle to almost snatch it at the end.  Alas and alack, I predict Newcastle 30-Wasps 34.  I have taken the liberty to already include that result in the table above.  

Bath-Exeter:  Today's New year's Eve match is a big one, Bath hosting Exeter.  The just too pretty owner of Bath has threatened to cancel New year's Eve unless Bath win.  He has THAT kind of money (and real good hair).  Exe had a big win last match and Bath were crushed under a swarm of Wasps.  With heart in hand (very messy to type that way) I predict Bath at home by 7.

The Big New year's Day matches (get your fix before we all go back to work next week)

Sale - Bristol:  Steve Diamond has proven his detractors wrong by once again taking a middle of the table team and put them in a fight for relegation.  Good thing they are hosting Bristol, who may have simply blown their wad in their last game.  I predict Sale by a scoreline of 3-0.

Worcester - Harlequins:  Ahh Harlequins, a good team following the Steve Diamond concept and instead of pushing for the top four are making a good attack on the mid-table.  Got away with one last week with two penalties not called within 10 seconds of each other at the death and Gloucester attacking on the line.  Not being satisfied with their luck, they fail to kick the ball out and end the game.  The good news for Quins fans was the ball was kicked to Jonny May who ran 70 yards across the pitch before buggering it up.  (I think that lad could be quite good if he knew (1) to run to the posts forming the letter 'H', and (2) pass to teammates). Worcester, one of the Premiership's favourite teams because (1) they have a great ground, (2) their supporters are great, and (3) they usually lose, will lose by 10-21


Gloucester - Saints:  Do I have to write about this?  Maybe I can get on the pitch with Saints, bang my head and forget this whole season.  Gloucester found yet another way to lose last week (at least they know what they are doing).  Saints game plan is to kick the ball to Jonny May and tell him the goal line is  'here, no there, no behind you' get him running in circles until he gives up the ball.  Saints will lumber forwards, slowly, aimlessly for 60 minutes, then bring off the bench Prince Harry (who will score 6 tries) and Estelles to add some Latin flair.  Final score Gloucester 27-Saints 30. 

Tigers-Saracens:  Tigers are at home defending the Kingdom of Mercia from the invasions of tribes from South Africa accumulating in the southern capital London.  Can they do it?  Saracens are crafty fighters.  But Leicester are defending the pride and history of our nation.  On the very special first day of the year, I expect Leicester to put Cockerill back at Number 2 (he is the best they have) and he will personally face down the challenge (Freddie Burns sure as sh!t won't).  Fight, scratch, and claw in the finest Leicester/Mercian tradition.      Tigers to win 21-20.

Funny thread. Nice comeback by Exeter!

Carlos Spencer between-the-legs pass to give Short his try.

Exeter get their first win at the Rec by holding Bath scoreless in the second half.

Seemed unlikely when Rokoduguni was running rampant for the home team.

Thought Bath were stuck on winners at half time, fair play to Exeter.

Ford looked increasingly frustrated with the dodgy kick chase on his kicks and the increasingly static Bath attack leaving him running to the line with no options to pass to.

Poor performance from Bath, time and time again they go to sleep for half a game, Ford not signing a contract is becoming a problem. If he wants out then stop playing the little Fraker and move on, not a happy Bath fan.

Happy New Year all.

Can't decide which match to watch.

Sale And Bristol might be tense, but Sale have started well so far, so it might not be as close as Bristol v Worcester.

Leicester v Saracens looks like the marquee game but it might not be the best spectacle while Worcester vs Quins and Gloucester vs Saints are both good stages for potential drama.

Decisions, decisions...

Tuilagi off after just over five minutes.

He made a strong break which needed three defenders to stop him. One of them got his knee and it didn't look great.

The final tackler goes straight over the top of his solders and finishes round the neck. Surprised that wasn't pulled up given how everything high is now zero tolerance. 

JP looks like he's continuing his current form.

Tigers now looking light in the midfield and not kicking well tactically.

Varndell has just equalled Cueto's Premiership try scoring record.

Sale vs Bristol has just got closer, and Worcester have the first try against Quins, so might be tempted to move away from watching Welford Road...

Worcester looking rabid against Quins right now. Think Robshaw took a knock during the last passage. He shrugged off the medic as play came back towards him.

What's the point in calling maul after all the bodies are on the floor?

JP having his usual shocker of a performance. To much open play = panic and give a penalty.

Why kick the   penalty we've got the Sarries scrum on toast. And then he misses it. 

Early in the second half

Worcester leading Quins 16-0
Bristol leading Sale 23-24

Actually, that Bristol game was an early start, so there's only a few minutes left.

Relegation battle looks a lot more interesting if Bristol And Worcester both win, while Sale & Gloucester or Saints lose.

Bristol have beaten Sale. Meanwhile, Quins are 21-0 down against Worcester with half an hour to play.

Farrell try a bit against the run of play. Leicester really should have gone for a scrum at the end of the first half. Few teams beat Saracens by taking three points.

Rugby Fan wrote:Farrell try a bit against the run of play. Leicester really should have gone for a scrum at the end of the first half. Few teams beat Saracens by taking three points.

Oh yes we're shooting ourselves in the foot spectacularly well today.

How many high tackles on Burns this half? JP hasn't even looked. Managed to miss the Sarries knock on in the bungled Tigers break as well.

formerly known as Sam wrote:How many high tackles on Burns this half? JP hasn't even looked. Managed to miss the Sarries knock on in the bungled Tigers break as well.

You are   kidding me JP. You ping that high tackle after the Sarries half dozen.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Saints pen try.

Tigers lost that game with the moronic decision on the stroke of half time. If it costs Cockers his job then he'll feel hard done by given he was signalling for them to take the scrum. No brain engaged on that decision.

Good win for Sarries without ever really stepping out of 2nd gear.

Tigers offered little bar a very impressive scrum. Figallo had an absolute mare in the set piece.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good win for Sarries without ever really stepping out of 2nd gear.

Tigers offered little bar a very impressive scrum. Figallo had an absolute mare in the set piece.

Until we gifted them a big error to turn into a try they were not in the lead and never looked like scoring. The final score was a four point difference.

We certainly struggled after Manu went off. Took a big chunk of physicality out of our midfield.

Agree, Sarries offered little in attack either. They just have this abilty to just look in control. I thought your front row went really well. Youngs threw well.

I thought Sarries tactical kicking kept them in the game. When they were losing the other areas if play they can kick and chase superbly and just apply pressure in the opposition's half.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good win for Sarries without ever really stepping out of 2nd gear.

Tigers offered little bar a very impressive scrum. Figallo had an absolute mare in the set piece.

How well the scrum went is significant given how hit and miss it's been this season. Sarries are fantastic at rotating players in and out of their pack but still scrummaging as a unit. With Skelton in the row they weren't lacking weight coming through either.

Sitting in 5th, especially 5 points behind Bath in 4th, is the pressure builder for Cockers.

That and the big European losses away of course. Those are countered by the two home wins and a torrid group to be drawn in though.

My view of Cockers remains very much the same as it has been for a couple of seasons. I think he does a good job in a difficult position. Add up the financial difficulties compared to rivals (no Toomua injury replacement is very telling), huge expectations from a generation of fans accustomed to success and an academy in need of some changes to make the most of it's talent and catchment area.

He may not be the greatest coach or the best manager, his uncompromising style with both is well known to rub some up the wrong way.

However he has done a better job than I believe most would with the same pressures around the position. All coaches have a shelf life and Cockers may well be reaching his at Tigers but until someone suggests a better replacement (who the club can realistically line up) then I'm happy for him to continue.

Once again Glaws throw away a match they should have won. It truly is an art at being this inept

HongKongCherry wrote:Once again Glaws throw away a match they should have won. It truly is an art at being this inept

Very much appreciated. Saints appeared aimless, rudderless, clueless, and (hopefully) hungover. Lucky.
Imagine this: Bristol could well be overconfident coming into the Gardens next weekend.

You're most welcome Doc

king_carlos wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good win for Sarries without ever really stepping out of 2nd gear.

Tigers offered little bar a very impressive scrum. Figallo had an absolute mare in the set piece.

How well the scrum went is significant given how hit and miss it's been this season. Sarries are fantastic at rotating players in and out of their pack but still scrummaging as a unit. With Skelton in the row they weren't lacking weight coming through either.

Sitting in 5th, especially 5 points behind Bath in 4th, is the pressure builder for Cockers.

That and the big European losses away of course. Those are countered by the two home wins and a torrid group to be drawn in though.

My view of Cockers remains very much the same as it has been for a couple of seasons. I think he does a good job in a difficult position. Add up the financial difficulties compared to rivals (no Toomua injury replacement is very telling), huge expectations from a generation of fans accustomed to success and an academy in need of some changes to make the most of it's talent and catchment area.

He may not be the greatest coach or the best manager, his uncompromising style with both is well known to rub some up the wrong way.

However he has done a better job than I believe most would with the same pressures around the position. All coaches have a shelf life and Cockers may well be reaching his at Tigers but until someone suggests a better replacement (who the club can realistically line up) then I'm happy for him to continue.

Cockers hit the nail on the head in his interview after the game, "we need to play like this away from home". If he can't make that happen he needs to go. Our away form has been humiliating. Meyer is available and the board like him, he'll work on the pack.

The scrummaging was a promising improvement with a bit of luck we'll some more of that.

Agree with that completely Sam.

I'm not concerned about seeing Tigers narrowly lose to the best team in Europe thanks mostly to a balls up by Ben. My concern is that I have absolutely no faith in seeing that level of intensity repeated consistently and away from WR.

That's my problem with today Fuzzy. We made two errors and paid the price. Against other teams we could play like we did make those two errors and still win. As you say I'm pretty sure we won't play like this in Coventry next week, it'll probably be another away humping.

Any new how bad tualagi's injury is. It looked bad when he went off.

Bang on the outside of the knee, some swelling but the club will need to do some scans to full access what's happened.

Could be anything from bruising to pulled tendons or torn ACL. He didn't look happy.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Bang on the outside of the knee, some swelling but the club will need to do some scans to full access what's happened.

Could be anything from bruising to pulled tendons or torn ACL. He didn't look happy.

about when on the clock did it happen?

8 mins in I think.

Fingers crossed.

Irrespective of what he does with the rest of his career (and he's still a young guy) you just want Manu to have a chance to just go out and play and prove himself one way or the other

lostinwales wrote:Irrespective of what he does with the rest of his career (and he's still a young guy) you just want Manu to have a chance to just go out and play and prove himself one way or the other

He looked devastated. As you say he just wants to play. So much potential never fully fit is painful to see.

Welly wrote: 8 mins in I think.

Fingers crossed.

Agree about fingers crossed. Didn't look good. Came at the end of a powerful run where he almost looked back to the form of a few years ago. Really hard to tell from the replay, could be anything from ACL to Patella Tendon to a (hopefully) strain. Shame.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:How many high tackles on Burns this half? JP hasn't even looked. Managed to miss the Sarries knock on in the bungled Tigers break as well.

You are   kidding me JP. You ping that high tackle after the Sarries half dozen.

Steady on - I won't hear a bad word said against the fine JP Doyle

king_carlos wrote:However he has done a better job than I believe most would with the same pressures around the position. All coaches have a shelf life and Cockers may well be reaching his at Tigers but until someone suggests a better replacement (who the club can realistically line up) then I'm happy for him to continue.

I agreed with the rest of your post, but really agreed with this.

My gut feel is he is approaching his sell by date with us, but until there is a workable plan to bring someone in not sure there is any point in making the change purely for the sake of it.

My main thoughts from yesterday:

1) While not claiming it affected the match (Tigers couple of balls-ups did that) JP was certainly erratic in his decision making.
2) Ellis Genge, having been left out of this week's training squad, surely impressed Eddie.
3) Really confused as who the coaches feel is our best kicker from hand and tee. After all when Freddie was at 10 (and Owen at 12) he took all the kicks. The last two games with Freddie at 15, we see Owen taking the kicks instead. With Manu likely out next week we will see Burns back in the 10 shirt and probably taking the kicking duties!!!!

So here we are after the holidays and I think we can make some clear conclusions

   

TEAM	P	W	D	L	B	Pts
WASPS	12	10	0	2	7	47
SARACENS	12	10	0	2	6	46
EXETER	12	7	1	4	9	39
BATH	12	8	0	4	5	37
LEICESTER	12	7	0	5	4	32
NORTHAMPTON	12	6	0	6	4	28
HARLEQUINS	12	6	0	6	4	28
NEWCASTLE	12	5	0	7	5	25
GLOUCESTER	12	3	2	7	9	25
SALE	12	3	1	8	5	19
WORCESTER	12	2	2	8	2	14
BRISTOL	12	2	0	10	4	12

So as of January 2, and anything can change, there appear to be......
Two really good teams:  Wasps and Saracens (hisssss)
Two almost really good teams:  Exeter and Bath (Bath could fall in the second half, I think)
One uber confused good team:  Leicester
Two pretty good teams making a full blooded assault on mediocrity:  Harlequins and Northampton
One mediocre team with dreams of achieving mediocrity:  Newcastle
One mediocre team trying to figure out how to not achieve mediocrity:  Gloucester
One mediocre team which just decided to make an assault on the bottom of the table:  Sale
Two sub-mediocre teams who are trying to survive and welcome Sale to the party:  Worcester and Bristol

Agree with most of that Doc, other than Saints being a good team. Think until a few key people are replaced (both playing staff and management) then they are a mediocre team achieving mediocrity rather successfully, based on the last few months. Otherwise good analysis as always.

LondonTiger wrote:2) Ellis Genge, having been left out of this week's training squad, surely impressed Eddie.

I can't see that Nathan Catt is even remotely as good an international prospect as Ellis Genge, so got to think EJ's decision is more to do with sending a message to Genge. Wonder if it's a situation where potentially he didn't work on the specific areas that EJ identifies with each player? Allegedly what some think happened with Kieron Brooks?