Eng vs. India...ODIs & T20s

First topic message reminder :

So Dhoni is gone.....amidst  lot of of glowing tributes...but we  suspect he was asked to go...his time was up quite sometime back.....and the BCCI did it in a nice way...
It's also being said that the Champions Trophy will be his retirement tournament if he performs vs Eng...else this might be his end series



Ind ODI squad: KL Rahul, Shikhar Dhawan, Virat Kohli (capt), MS Dhoni, Manish Pandey, Kedar Jadhav, Yuvraj Singh, Ajinkya Rahane, Hardik Pandya, R Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Amit Mishra, Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Umesh Yadav


Ind T20I squad: KL Rahul, Mandeep Singh, Virat Kohli (capt), MS Dhoni (wk), Yuvraj Singh, Suresh Raina, Rishabh Pant (wk), Hardik Pandya, R Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Yuzvendra Chahal, Manish Pandey, Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Ashish Nehra


for completeness sake here are the Eng squads




England ODI squad:
Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Jake Ball, Sam Billings, Jos Buttler, Liam Dawson, Alex Hales, Eoin Morgan(c), Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Chris Woakes,
England T20I squad:
Moeen Ali, Jake Ball, Sam Billings, Jos Buttler, Liam Dawson, Alex Hales, Chris Jordan, Tymal Mills, Eoin Morgan(c), Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey,

Eng: after having been so positive with delightful brand of aggressive limited over cricket......Eng Imploded in a sad end...losing all 3 series 

the signs of a mini implosion were in the last game where they failed to put across 147 odd .....and to make things worse entrenched themselves in a victim's mentality...self pity....and I noted that they will serve the next game on a platter

Morgan is a terrific limited over batsman...and Billings too impetuous...if replaced  they are a terrific side....
and the have good reserves of pace bowling that we saw in ODis and T20s....Mills and jordan are both good and wonder why they were not considered for tests 
 
Ind: won  ODIs and  T20s after a long time....and under Kohli they are still optimizing

Jadhav should be in the T20 outfit also...and will be
I am not convinced with Dhoni, Yuv and Nehra....but they all had a role to play in the win.

The turn around point in T20s came when in first game Kohli bowled Rasool for two overs and found he was not international standard....at par with or below the level of part timer Raina....and replaced him with Mishra

and although he didn't pick buckeful wickets Mishra made a diffrence...in middle overs in both games slowed down Eng, picked wickets and turned the tide.....was lucky to have not had Stokes ( no balled) and drop by Yuvi today.

Chahal is not a great spinner but a steady one...and will get wickets only in very short format when batters go after him.....doesn't  have a pivot..doesn't rip it so much and is not a big spinner....almost reminiscent of Upul Chandana of Lanka.

won't be so successful even in the slightly longer ODI format...when batsman can knock him around for singles....Mishra is a more all format wicket taking bowler

BBC cricket wrote:Their slump was the second-worst eight-wicket collapse in the history of international cricket - New Zealand lost 8-5 in a Test against Australia in 1946.
Only once before in all T20 cricket, either international or domestic, has a side lost eight wickets for eight runs or fewer.

 amazing collapse

Well what can I say, firstly well done India. Simply a better more balanced side. Is MS really not the captain anymore? Looked to me like he was the one setting the fields and taking control in this match.

England, they have a good team full of talent but really seem to lack composure when put under pressure.

Enjoy the win there India fans, been an excellent atmosphere at every game

Meh, my side lost 7 wickets for 4 runs chasing 80 in a game last season. 8 for 8 isn't that impressive! I, of course, definitely did not get a first baller trying to deposit someone over long on.

So that pressure on Hales from Billings..how's that going?

Pretty meak surrender in the end. It was always going to be a tough chase but they just seemed to give up after the good start. Pretty disappointing

Gooseberry wrote:So that pressure on Hales from Billings..how's that goin

Billings has rather fizzled out , hasn't he ? (Actually has a few mates , disappointing end to the tour)

I was lucky enough to miss this whole match - somehow thought it was on Thursday so the first I knew was the sight of the wreckage on the net this morning...

Not all that bothered : the t20 , and indeed 50 over outfit , have generally done pretty well ...even in this tour , only this last game was in the horror category , the others wins or close defeats. Have to admit 8/8 is pretty spectacular ! Though I guess once the established pair fell and Buttler followed it was effectively all over and everyone else just had a swing rather than try to make it look semi-respectable ?

I see the good old BBC comments section - always a home of considered reflection and carefully thought out analysis - included calls for the sacking of Bayliss , Morgan , Strauss , Root , Stokes and Buttler so they didn't miss many...

Bayliss making the rather obvious point that they don't play spin too well...unfortunately there is no instant cure available so it is well that the next few engagements are in less spin-friendly conditions ...I don't expect , or desire , mass changes. Put this one down as a bad hair day and try to get the bowling lineup settled a bit better for the home ODIs. I'd also let Root take a break (though I doubt they will) Do we really need him in West Indies ?


Congrats to India : they've done it well

Joking aside they had touted Billings as a specialist for these games due to his IPL experience. He's the one who was supposed to have the skills and experience to deal with that spin.
Morgan too supposedly is a (reltively) good player of spin.

Stokes is going for an IPL contract, which should get him more exposed.

But it seems an entire winter of playing spinners in Asia...plus facing Pakistani and Sri Lanka in the summer...hasn't made a jot of difference to England's collective ability in this regard.
This surrender was another level of awful. It's one step worse than getting taken apart by Ashwin in a 4th innings.

Could the county game do more? Possibly. But then there's also pressure to develop pitches that encourage genuine fast bowling too. The lack of quality spinners though surely can't be helping to provide batsmen capable of playing it well to the national side.

Realistically it comes down to the England set up to have specialist coaching for the batsmen and to look at changing the fundamentals of their mindset and shot selection in all formats.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

msp83 wrote:Disgraceful? Embarrassing? Pathetic? What do you call that collapse from England? They've lost 8-8 in just about 3 overs!!

All of that and more. If I didn't know better I would say they were bribed to throw the game...but even then you wouldn't make it that obvious.

Absolutely abysmal...even by England standards. I actually stopped watching when Buttler threw his wicket away, as I knew what was coming.

I would hope the England players are thoroughly ashamed of themselves...but they will probably just think, "It happens...it was one of those games..."  

Because it was just one of those games....

Screwed out of the series by a crooked umpire in the last game

Stop it! You're just too funny!

Yes "stuff" happens...but it should never happen to the extent it did in that game. Credit to India for batting well, but England's bowling was below par and our batting would even have made a headless chicken do a double take.

You can't blame a collapse like that on one or two dodgy umpiring decisions.

Its like watching your football team get thumped 5-0 and blaming the ref for not awarding a blatant pen when you were 4-0 down.

...except it was a very tight game