The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

by Pot Hale Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

I stepped out and she stepped in again
I stepped out and she stepped in again
learning to dance for Lanigan's Ball

In thinking about recent goings-on at union level within the PRO12, I was reminded of the lyrics of this old song as unions, corporate interests, private investors, Welsh benefactors, and sundry money-makers make their various moves on the PRO12 dance floor. Scotland and Ireland seem to be bashfully eyeing up the investor lads on one side of the hall, fluttering their eyelashes, whilst on the other side, the Welsh bennys (as they're affectionately known Wink

) are making tapes and throwing shapes, whilst secretly hoping eagerly that they might get a chance to sign the WRU's card for a dance or two. Meanwhile, the Italians dither in the middle wondering where they should be but won't tell anyone that they don't know even the music.

But for now the band has taken a break whilst the visiting Europeans and Anglo heavies make their way onto the floor to start their version of French/Anglo hopscotch involving a number of bulky partners, foreign tap dancers, celtic coaches, and comic millionaires.

It's a good a time as any for a quick cuppa and a chance to talk about where the PRO12 is going with all the plans for expansion to US and Europe suddenly gone quiet, some league quality improvements, big weekend derbies, more neutral officials, and what else is on the horizon for upcoming changes within the PRO12.

The looming spectre of dwindling money and funding ever more expensive teams for the future seems to be the next big issue and where that is all going to come from. Hopes of improved TV deals, better sponsors and business supporters of the league remain a distant aspiration - although the recent appointment of a commercial director to work alongside Martin Anayi on securing the best deals possible seems to be a step in the right direction. Some are holding their whisth on that one.

Ownership and financing of the teams themselves is the most urgent and vexing issue facing the four unions operating in the PRO12. Over the last number of months, the SRU have been making a lot of noise and some news headlines with their plans to bring in private investment to its two Scottish clubs to help meet some of the ongoing costs involved. The SRU says it can't continue to finance the two teams at current levels of revenue and costs, and they need to bring in private investors/business to meet a substantial portion of the costs in return for a stake in one or both of the two clubs. How much that stake would be is not clear as the SRU would want to keep their hand in the two clubs responsible for generating its line of test players, but whether that would be a 51% stake or less remains to be seen. A voting process in late 2016 saw members give the green light to the Scottish Union to pursue this path of identifying and securing potential investment but only time will tell if it will draw in any worthwhile investors.

Italian rugby seems to lurch from one crisis to the next with the FIR having to bail out both Treviso and Zebre in recent times with substantial commitments of money. After the last crisis, which saw a number of players leave the two clubs, it is Treviso who have fared better with the backing of Bennetton, and it is Zebre who are staring down the barrel of closure at season end once again. A new franchise, based in Rome, is being rumoured to be on the cards with the FIR willing to put financial support into its development. For many within the PRO12, and without, the Italian project seems to be a wasted exercise and just amounts to weekly humiliation as opposition teams pile up the points, regularly taking home try bonus points in their victories. For others, the Italian involvement is a long game and one that has to be persevered with. Yet, the FIR is still not a shareholder in Celtic Rugby, the company which manages the PRO12 - the latest filings with the Companies Registration Office in Dublin shows that the three Celtic unions remain the founding shareholders, and critically, the beneficiaries of any financial dealing that flow through it - particularly in relation to TV broadcasting deals such as Sky Sports. This current season, it took until Round 6 before an Italian broadcaster could be secured for covering the home matches of Treviso and Zebre, and with crowds often hovering around 1,500-2,000, this didn't raise many eyebrows. for the foreseeable future, Italian rugby will stay within the PRO12, and the FIR will continue to be a major stakeholder/financier in the teams.

Irish rugby has been dabbling with business support for a number of years now with the provincial teams drawing in sponsorships, player salary top-ups, and increasing financial support for the various provinces through different types of schemes devised by the individual branches. Jamie Heaslip recently re-signed with Leinster on what's likely to be his final playing contract before retirement (at age 37). One of Ireland’s most consistent and durable players, he’s also been one of the most consistently highest paid through his IRFU central contract, and a salary top-up through his Leinster club with a business sponsorship deal with Bank of Ireland.

But these adhoc business supports and extended sponsorships/player promotions and brand ambassadors do not fill the coffers of the branches sufficiently to grow and expand, it's sufficient only to pay the salaries of 2-3 players to keep them in place against ever higher competing offers from the TV-deal-enriched clubs in England and France. As the IRFU pointed at the launch of its annual report last June, the IRFU cannot continue to be "the bank of last resort" for the provinces - following a €1 million plus bailout of Munster, and a €250k additional budget for each province to help them compete on player salaries. A number of the provinces have sought quietly to persuade the IRFU to consider opening up the provinces’ branch company structures to allow private investors to take a stake in each of the provinces in return for continued investment over a period of time. Until the last year, those overtures have been largely rebuffed with the occasional odd positive murmur about the need to keep control if such a development were to be envisaged. It is rumoured that alongside the SRU’s current moves, the IRFU is also investigating how the branches’ structures could be altered to allow such investment in the future. A variant of the NZRU model whereby they allowed private investors to take a stake in each of the five Super Rugby franchises is being considered, but the IRFU would want to maintain a controlling stake that gives them oversight and control in line with the current player management policy and protocols they have in place.

As the IRFU have stated time and again, the revenues from the test game is what keeps the whole of Irish rugby afloat - interfering with or disabling that in some way is not something they would countenance. Equally, the union recognises that costs will continue to rise in the PRO12 and wider club game with player salaries being biggest driver. Their investment policy has switched from paying out large salaries to high-profile capped foreign players to investing in the domestic pathway development (€10m over the last 3 years) - with the emergence of some fine academy players across the provinces proving testament to this approach led by David Nucifora on behalf of the IRFU.

Nonetheless, the club game is getting bigger and more financially competitive so if a methodology can be developed to allow private investment takes its place at the table, it’s likely to happen over the next few years.

But as two unions move across the dance floor looking for wealthy partners, the Welsh benefactors are being drawn (protestingly for some) from the other side by the WRU who have recently announced that they see the future of the Welsh game involving a marriage of both union and private investment funds. As two unions prepare to step out, the Welsh union is preparing to step in again. The Dragons region has been languishing in the shop window for the past year, gathering dust as various investor-type people amble up, take a poke and move off again without buying. Martin Phillps was pushed recently in an interview to say that the WRU couldn't allow the region to fold, but he wasn't too specific in public as to what kind of support they might bring. Equally, he was encouraged enough to say that increased union funding for the four regions seemed to be inevitable - but he didn't say what price they might extract for such investment. Would the benefactors/shareholders be asked to move on, or move around the table to make more room for union faces to sit down?

Whilst there are those who pine for a future whereby pure private investment and ownership rules the roost like their counterparts in England and France, the likelihood of that model being created and surviving does not seem to be on anyone's dance cards. More likely, a marriage of convenience may be arrived at, wherein true love may never be expressed, but at least the two parties will be able to pay the mortgage together, and maybe afford a new extension or two in the near future to mix a few metaphors.

But for now, let the European hopscotch begin, and then the merry four-nation dance can begin again.

All together now:

Sixteen long years we spent in Dub-i-lin
Sixteen long years doin' nothing at all
Sixteen long years we spent in Dub-i-lin
Learning to dance at the PRO12 ball.

They stepped out, and they stepped in again......

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 8:52 am

Pot Hale wrote:End of season figures on attendances for the PRO!2 - up 26,000 net overall on last season.

How have you calculated Judgement Day in those figures?

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 8:52 am

marty2086 wrote:After all the blethering about the Pro 12 being unsustainable, particularly the Union run model it's two French teams with all their wealth that have to 'merge' to preserve their long term future and it looks like Cardiff will require a temporary Union takeover to stay afloat

I guess this didn't quite pan out as you had hoped.

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 8:56 am

Pot Hale wrote:PRO12 Home Attendance League by Stadium Capacity Use after Round 16.

Someone asked me to calculate this at some point.

I've taken in account where clubs have used other larger stadia - clearly this impacted on Edinburgh negatively where I've used the total capacity of 67,000. With their move to Myerside (5,500), they have moved to 85% of available capacity based on the two games played so far there. If I've got stadia capacity wrong, let me know.

Stadia Used Team Home Attendance Games Avg Crowd Total Capacity Available Season %
18000 Ulster 109,697 7 15,671 126,000 87%
8100 Connacht 50,150 8 6,269 64,800 77%
18,200/51,000 Leinster 134,746 8 16,843 178,400 76%
9708 Glasgow 50,721 7 7,246 67,956 75%
25600/8200 Munster 103,122 8 12,340 152,600 68%
12125 Cardiff 58,219 8 7,277 97,000 60%
8800 Dragons 36,399 8 4,620 70,400 52%
14800 Scarlets 52,855 8 6,483 118,400 45%
22000 Ospreys 83,021 9 9,485 198,000 42%
6700 Treviso 22,100 8 2,871 53,600 41%
5000 Zebre 13,001 7 2,000 35,000 37%
67,000/5500 Edinburgh 48,178 8 6,314 413,000 12%

And for those who want average attendance ranking, it looks like this:

Stadia Team Home Att Games Avg. Capacity Available Season %
18,200/51,000 Leinster 134,746 8 16,843 178,400 76%
18000 Ulster 109,697 7 15,671 126,000 87%
25600/8200 Munster 103,122 8 12,340 152,600 68%
22000 Ospreys 83,021 9 9,485 198,000 42%
12125 Cardiff 58,219 8 7,277 97,000 60%
9708 Glasgow 50,721 7 7,246 67,956 75%
14800 Scarlets 52,855 8 6,483 118,400 45%
67,000/5500 Edinburgh 48,178 8 6,314 413,000 12%
8100 Connacht 50,150 8 6,269 64,800 77%
8800 Dragons 36,399 8 4,620 70,400 52%
6700 Treviso 22,100 8 2,871 53,600 41%
5000 Zebre 13,001 7 2,000 35,000 37%

The capacity of CAP was 11,700 for this season, from memory.

It's down to 11k (at the moment) for next season.

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 9:30 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:After all the blethering about the Pro 12 being unsustainable, particularly the Union run model it's two French teams with all their wealth that have to 'merge' to preserve their long term future and it looks like Cardiff will require a temporary Union takeover to stay afloat

I guess this didn't quite pan out as you had hoped.

Really? Was the whole fiasco with Stade and Racing not because the owners claimed it was unsustainable? Are Cardiff not being taken over by the WRU?

Just because the merger didn't happen doesn't mean the point doesn't stand, living under your rock you may have missed that Rolling Eyes

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:32 am

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:After all the blethering about the Pro 12 being unsustainable, particularly the Union run model it's two French teams with all their wealth that have to 'merge' to preserve their long term future and it looks like Cardiff will require a temporary Union takeover to stay afloat

I guess this didn't quite pan out as you had hoped.

Really? Was the whole fiasco with Stade and Racing not because the owners claimed it was unsustainable? Are Cardiff not being taken over by the WRU?

Just because the merger didn't happen doesn't mean the point doesn't stand, living under your rock you may have missed that

No, Cardiff aren't being taken over and the two Parisian clubs are continuing happily, both with billionaire owners (it seems).

So, what did I miss?

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 9:34 am

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/cardiff-blues-taken-over-wru-13008228

Cardiff Blues to be taken over by WRU from July 1 and it could well be PERMANENT

The Cardiff Blues franchise is to be handed back to the Welsh Rugby Union, who will take over responsibility for the region from July 1.

The Union will assume a babysitting role while the Blues board focus on the proposed redevelopment of the Arms Park and the construction of a new multi-purpose covered arena.

It remains to be seen whether the takeover will be a temporary or a permanent arrangement.

The dramatic news was revealed at the Cardiff Blues Ltd Shareholders AGM last night and chairman Peter Thomas has spoken exclusively to WalesOnline today to outline what lies ahead.

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:37 am

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:37 am

So what did I miss?

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 9:38 am

Nonetheless, the reality is that both clubs are struggling financially. Stade Francais were close to bankruptcy in 2011 before the Savare family stepped in. They’ve poured money into the club but despite winning the Top 14 title in 2015, it’s been a constant battle to pull in spectators and attract sponsors.

by LordDowlais Tue May 23, 2017 9:39 am

PhilBB wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

So something you have typed should now be taken as fact ??? i think we have all learned not to believe you on here Phillip.

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 9:40 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

So something you have typed should now be taken as fact ??? i think we have all learned not to believe you on here Phillip.

LD, don't say things like that you know its confusing when we agree on something Erm

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:40 am

Struggling financially - just like the IRFU teams who needed another €1m plus for this season to keep going?

Sorry, I'm missing your point here. That's if there is one.

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:41 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

So something you have typed should now be taken as fact ??? i think we have all learned not to believe you on here Phillip.

Feel free to point out the bits you think are factually incorrect.

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 9:44 am

PhilBB wrote:Struggling financially - just like the IRFU teams who needed another €1m plus for this season to keep going?

Sorry, I'm missing your point here. That's if there is one.

If the IRFU own the provinces as you spent your days arguing then would that not just be an owner increasing the budgets of different divisions?

And the increase wasn't to keep them going, it was to allow them to be more competitive thumbsup

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:45 am

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Struggling financially - just like the IRFU teams who needed another €1m plus for this season to keep going?

Sorry, I'm missing your point here. That's if there is one.

If the IRFU own the provinces as you spent your days arguing then would that not just be an owner increasing the budgets of different divisions?

And the increase wasn't to keep them going, it was to allow them to be more competitive

Yes, that's right. The IRFU, owner of all of its branches, spent more money to meet the wage demands of the players.

So what point do you think I'm missing here? You're yet to explain that one.

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 9:48 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Struggling financially - just like the IRFU teams who needed another €1m plus for this season to keep going?

Sorry, I'm missing your point here. That's if there is one.

If the IRFU own the provinces as you spent your days arguing then would that not just be an owner increasing the budgets of different divisions?

And the increase wasn't to keep them going, it was to allow them to be more competitive

Yes, that's right. The IRFU, owner of all of its branches, spent more money to meet the wage demands of the players.

So what point do you think I'm missing here? You're yet to explain that one.

Whats the point? You're an idiot who ignores evidence that contradicts his viewpoint, its a pointless exercise trying to explain things to you so you can go write your little blog and the rest of us will go back to ignoring you

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:49 am

marty2086 wrote:
Whats the point? You're an idiot who ignores evidence that contradicts his viewpoint, its a pointless exercise trying to explain things to you so you can go write your little blog and the rest of us will go back to ignoring you

Right, that's nice.

Now, what point did you think I missed whilst under my rock?

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:50 am

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:After all the blethering about the Pro 12 being unsustainable, particularly the Union run model it's two French teams with all their wealth that have to 'merge' to preserve their long term future and it looks like Cardiff will require a temporary Union takeover to stay afloat

I guess this didn't quite pan out as you had hoped.

Really? Was the whole fiasco with Stade and Racing not because the owners claimed it was unsustainable? Are Cardiff not being taken over by the WRU?

Just because the merger didn't happen doesn't mean the point doesn't stand, living under your rock you may have missed that

What point?

by LordDowlais Tue May 23, 2017 9:52 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

So something you have typed should now be taken as fact ??? i think we have all learned not to believe you on here Phillip.

Feel free to point out the bits you think are factually incorrect.

Well the fact that you wrote it sort of nails the lid on the coffin.

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 9:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

So something you have typed should now be taken as fact ??? i think we have all learned not to believe you on here Phillip.

Feel free to point out the bits you think are factually incorrect.

Well the fact that you wrote it sort of nails the lid on the coffin.

Right, I see. So you can't point to anything.

by geoff999rugby Tue May 23, 2017 11:19 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Whats the point? You're an idiot who ignores evidence that contradicts his viewpoint, its a pointless exercise trying to explain things to you so you can go write your little blog and the rest of us will go back to ignoring you

Right, that's nice.

Now, what point did you think I missed whilst under my rock?

The point you are missing is the extra money is icing on the cake not essential to the survival of the provinces.

Cardiff and Dragons need support to survive the Irish provinces don't.
Sure they would have to tighten their belts but they wouldn't go under

That is the big difference

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 11:29 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
The point you are missing is the extra money is icing on the cake not essential to the survival of the provinces.

Cardiff and Dragons need support to survive the Irish provinces don't.
Sure they would have to tighten their belts but they wouldn't go under

That is the big difference

I think that Munster's €10m debt would indicate that the extra cash - and see Erasmus in today's press moaning about budget - was pretty essential.

And you're "big difference" is ludicrously misplaced when you consider the Irish branches are the IRFU and have constantly been pumped full of on average c.€8m a season more than their Welsh opponents have enjoyed.

Irish branches can't go under. They just get shut by their owner.

So, is that the big difference that I missed whilst under my rock? That the IRFU own the branches?

by geoff999rugby Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 am

The money you refer to covers a lot more than the Provincial teams it covers all aspect of the game in the Provinces.
If the team were independent, a lot of what is spent would not apply.
The figures, certainly for Ulster, add up.

Munster do have a debt but again it is a managed loan for which they would agree a payback period.
The important point is breaking even year on year.
Sure it would involved some cut backs - Munster may have to sell Musgrave for example but survival would not be in doubt.

The Irish provinces could stand alone - Cardiff and Dragons can't.

However this wont happen because the structure works for us so why would we change.
As has been said the Welsh could follow the same model they choose not to.
If they lose teams under their existing structure that is down to them alone and no one else.

by PhilBB Tue May 23, 2017 11:49 am

The money I refer to covers only the elite professional game, not 'all aspects of the game" at all. Please read the IRFU to learn that other expenditure is accounted for differently.

The Irish provinces can standalone - what are you basing this on, sorry? They couldn't even live within their huge budgets last year, hence the additional emergency cash.

Cardiff still standalone, sorry.

The Welsh cannot follow the same model as the WRU cannot afford the additional spend required.

by geoff999rugby Tue May 23, 2017 12:46 pm

Your wrong re expenditure.

Money comes into the Branch through the professional set up that is spent on things that would not be spent if the Provinces were independent.

Cardiff may currently stand alone but even your fellow Welshman is querying that and a Welsh internet site refers to them being handed back to the WRU

by marty2086 Tue May 23, 2017 12:54 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Your wrong re expenditure.

Money comes into the Branch through the professional set up that is spent on things that would not be spent if the Provinces were independent.

Cardiff may currently stand alone but even your fellow Welshman is querying that and a Welsh internet site refers to them being handed back to the WRU

geoff, don't waste your energies on him despite recent events showing the pitfalls of private owners he still insists the IRFU and other unions are the problem

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 8:11 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Your wrong re expenditure.

Money comes into the Branch through the professional set up that is spent on things that would not be spent if the Provinces were independent.

Cardiff may currently stand alone but even your fellow Welshman is querying that and a Welsh internet site refers to them being handed back to the WRU

No, Geoff, I'm referring to the part of the IRFU annual report that clearly states "professional game costs". The costs for the amateur game, referees etc. is accounted for separately. Hence, I'm not the one who is wrong. Sorry.

They aren't being handed back.

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 8:11 am

marty2086 wrote:

geoff, don't waste your energies on him despite recent events showing the pitfalls of private owners he still insists the IRFU and other unions are the problem

They are the problem because of their gerrymandering and inequality. Ask Pienaar.

by Sin é Wed May 24, 2017 9:22 am

Hey Phil, Munster are selling 2,000 x 10 & 5 year tickets at the moment at just under 5K and 3K a pop.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you are interested.

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 9:26 am

Sin é wrote:Hey Phil, Munster are selling 2,000 x 10 & 5 year tickets at the moment at just under 5K and 3K a pop.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you are interested.

Great news. Could you tell Erasmus, as he's moaning about not having enough money.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed May 24, 2017 2:25 pm

I used to think the mismanagement of the SRU was bad, just what are the WRU playing at?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40030690

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 2:45 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I used to think the mismanagement of the SRU was bad, just what are the WRU playing at?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40030690

How is that in anyway the WRUs fault?

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 2:49 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I used to think the mismanagement of the SRU was bad, just what are the WRU playing at?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40030690

How is that in anyway the WRUs fault?

Quite. Other than them, in effect, turning down the opportunity.

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 2:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/u-turn-if-you-want-to/

So something you have typed should now be taken as fact ??? i think we have all learned not to believe you on here Phillip.

How much tissue paper did you order to wipe that egg off your face?

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 2:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I used to think the mismanagement of the SRU was bad, just what are the WRU playing at?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40030690

How is that in anyway the WRUs fault?

Quite. Other than them, in effect, turning down the opportunity.

Really?

'Blues chief executive Richard Holland said the region has made the "unanimous decision" not to pursue the option.'

Ooooooooook Rolling Eyes

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 3:07 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Really?

'Blues chief executive Richard Holland said the region has made the "unanimous decision" not to pursue the option.'

Ooooooooook

As I wrote in the blog piece (days before this WO story) the WRU did not want the deal. They weren't keen. Other sections of Cardiff Blues ownership and support were even less keen, so the Board called it off.

So, yes, really.

Why would you want to take on a squad cost of £5m without the income to cover it?

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 3:13 pm

Sorry I forgot you know all and see all except for the fact the WRU went ahead with the deal, maybe you can fill us in on the details of the WRUs offer

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 3:28 pm

marty2086 wrote:Sorry I forgot you know all and see all except for the fact the WRU went ahead with the deal, maybe you can fill us in on the details of the WRUs offer

What fact that the WRU went ahead with the deal?

The WRU asked for financial clarifications to be delivered at a meeting that was subsequent to Monday's board meeting at Cardiff Blues Ltd. I know the full details, thanks. If you'd read my twitter page then you'd know why.

When it comes to details on my club, you're truly barking up the wrong tree by trying to have a pop at me, Martyn.

You just keep trying to work out why Thomas Savare is a xenophobe.

by mikey_dragon Wed May 24, 2017 3:34 pm

The merger is off btw... Well done Stade Francais for slapping them across the face in recent weeks.

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 3:36 pm

Sorry Im not one of your Twitter fanboys, so the WRU asked for clarification on finances as anyone would but they really didn't want the deal? It all makes total sense

And Savare saying he didn't want Stade falling into foreign hands during the merger press conference isn't at all xenophobic

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 3:52 pm

marty2086 wrote:Sorry Im not one of your Twitter fanboys, so the WRU asked for clarification on finances as anyone would but they really didn't want the deal? It all makes total sense

And Savare saying he didn't want Stade falling into foreign hands during the merger press conference isn't at all xenophobic

"Fanboys". Bloody hell, you do have the mentality of a teenager.

That's Savare who lived in New York. A xenophobe.

Owen Robins has met his match.

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 3:58 pm

Oh ffs, so saying you don't want the club to go to foreigners isn't xenophobic?

Of course living in another country proves that Rolling Eyes

xenophobia

noun: xenophobia

dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

by PhilBB Wed May 24, 2017 4:42 pm

You wouldn't live in a different country if you had a dislike of foreigners.

As for the WRU point, maybe now you'll also believe that now it is on Wales Online, again AFTER I'd written about it.

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 4:57 pm

If you think xenophobes don't travel you really don't have a clue

As for Wales Online, is this the article posted less than an hour ago from Simon Thomas saying

My understanding is there was a desire on both sides to try and put something in place and that there were pretty meaningful conversations.

But, in the end, agreement couldn’t be reached, with the financial package proving a stumbling block.

I see what you mean by it backing up what you said, I bet there will be some eejits who say that contradicts you but what would they know

by Sin é Wed May 24, 2017 6:02 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:Hey Phil, Munster are selling 2,000 x 10 & 5 year tickets at the moment at just under 5K and 3K a pop.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you are interested.

Great news. Could you tell Erasmus, as he's moaning about not having enough money.

Regardless of how much money anyone has, the Provinces stick to their budget.

by marty2086 Wed May 24, 2017 8:31 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:Hey Phil, Munster are selling 2,000 x 10 & 5 year tickets at the moment at just under 5K and 3K a pop.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you are interested.

Great news. Could you tell Erasmus, as he's moaning about not having enough money.

Regardless of how much money anyone has, the Provinces stick to their budget.

Now if only Munster could stick to the NIQ quotas Whistle

by PhilBB Thu May 25, 2017 8:30 am

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:Hey Phil, Munster are selling 2,000 x 10 & 5 year tickets at the moment at just under 5K and 3K a pop.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you are interested.

Great news. Could you tell Erasmus, as he's moaning about not having enough money.

Regardless of how much money anyone has, the Provinces stick to their budget.

Really? So why did the IRFU have to pump in that extra €1m?

by PhilBB Thu May 25, 2017 8:31 am

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Hans-peter-wild-choisi-pour-reprendre-le-stade-francais/804142

What a xenophobe.

by marty2086 Thu May 25, 2017 9:08 am

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:Hey Phil, Munster are selling 2,000 x 10 & 5 year tickets at the moment at just under 5K and 3K a pop.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you are interested.

Great news. Could you tell Erasmus, as he's moaning about not having enough money.

Regardless of how much money anyone has, the Provinces stick to their budget.

Really? So why did the IRFU have to pump in that extra €1m?

To increase the budget they were sticking to allow them to be more competitive this was explained to you before

by marty2086 Thu May 25, 2017 9:11 am

PhilBB wrote:https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Hans-peter-wild-choisi-pour-reprendre-le-stade-francais/804142

What a xenophobe.

You're not a xenophobe just an idiot, Savare stated he chose the merger opinion because he didn't want the club in foreign hands just because in desperation he sells it o a foreigner doesn't mean he didn't make the previous xenophobic comment. If that's too hard for you to figure out then that's your problem

by Sponsored content

Stadia Used	Team	Home Attendance	Games	Avg Crowd	Total Capacity Available	Season %
18000	Ulster	109,697	7	15,671	126,000	87%
8100	Connacht	50,150	8	6,269	64,800	77%
18,200/51,000	Leinster	134,746	8	16,843	178,400	76%
9708	Glasgow	50,721	7	7,246	67,956	75%
25600/8200	Munster	103,122	8	12,340	152,600	68%
12125	Cardiff	58,219	8	7,277	97,000	60%
8800	Dragons	36,399	8	4,620	70,400	52%
14800	Scarlets	52,855	8	6,483	118,400	45%
22000	Ospreys	83,021	9	9,485	198,000	42%
6700	Treviso	22,100	8	2,871	53,600	41%
5000	Zebre	13,001	7	2,000	35,000	37%
67,000/5500	Edinburgh	48,178	8	6,314	413,000	12%

Stadia	Team	Home Att	Games	Avg.	Capacity Available	Season %
18,200/51,000	Leinster	134,746	8	16,843	178,400	76%
18000	Ulster	109,697	7	15,671	126,000	87%
25600/8200	Munster	103,122	8	12,340	152,600	68%
22000	Ospreys	83,021	9	9,485	198,000	42%
12125	Cardiff	58,219	8	7,277	97,000	60%
9708	Glasgow	50,721	7	7,246	67,956	75%
14800	Scarlets	52,855	8	6,483	118,400	45%
67,000/5500	Edinburgh	48,178	8	6,314	413,000	12%
8100	Connacht	50,150	8	6,269	64,800	77%
8800	Dragons	36,399	8	4,620	70,400	52%
6700	Treviso	22,100	8	2,871	53,600	41%
5000	Zebre	13,001	7	2,000	35,000	37%