Aus coming to India

Australia squad Steven Smith (capt), David Warner, Matt Renshaw, Usman Khawaja, Shaun Marsh, Peter Handscomb, Glenn Maxwell, Matthew Wade (wk), Mitchell Marsh, Ashton Agar, Steve O'Keefe, Mitchell Starc, Mitchell Swepson, Josh Hazlewood, Jackson Bird, Nathan Lyon

Aus has declared their squad and they have 4 spinners + Maxwell who can bowl spin....and smith too can


and only 3 seamers in the squad....implies they will play 2 seamers and 3 spinners

india should produces pitches like they did vs NZ and SA.....krumblers and not the types they did vs Eng

Mitch Marsh injured bad shoulder, doubt for tour, Cartweight could get back in

I hope most worst will happen to Australia in this series. Might Expected White wash. Australian cant play on Asian Pitches.


oship.cc

wow your insightful

Aus has hired Monty of all people to be their Mentor for spin

If his mind is sound enough to mentor Aussies.....why is he not playing for Eng

Good to hear..Hopefully Monty is getting his life back on track, he has a good record in India, so yeah why not..

Australia are going to get destroyed

On paper its a pretty awful squad.
Sending 4(or 5 if you count Maxwell) spinners smacks of desperation in the same way it did with England. Theres two who are worth a spot, and Maxwell makes sense to enable some batting if they really do feel the need for a third in the side. The others seem to have been sent to enable them to chop and change in the same way England and they did last time they toured.
The lack of proper seamers is quaestionable. Whilst playing 4 didnt excatly work out for England there were times that a bit of genuine pace might have made a difference, and Australia simply wont be able to demand 20+ overs in a day from theirs putting the onus very much on Lyon and Okeefe to bowl. If the pitches are like the ones England palyed on then Kholi and freinds will have it easy.
And despite bringing so may spinners as England did theyve left the one who took the most wickets in the domestic competition at home.
Stoinis is surely a a joke...highest score of 32 in the shield. 1 wicket. Really?


Its hard to see how they will comepte on any level. They wont have much in the way of agressive fast bowling, aside from some short burts with the new ball. Whilst their front two spinners are better than Englands they are hardly in the league of Ashwin and Jadeja. Theres a number of bits and pieces players to make up the numbers.
The pressure on Smith and Warner to score runs is pretty huge. If they can then it does give Aus a sniff, and its one place where flat pitches may play into their hands a bit. Smith can be absolutely devastating in the first innings. But beyond those two the squad lacks star performers especially in these conditions. It lacks balance and depth as well as class.

Funny thing is over the last few years its the worst looking Aus teams that have tended to pull off the wins. Struggling to see it here though.

How Glenn Maxwell gets anywhere near a test squad i will never know, its truly baffling! Agar for me is a pointless selection, yeah he can bat a bit, but he will never be a force at international level with the ball, he dosen't turn it! Doubts over Marsh's fitness, so does that mean they go back to Cartwright? A man who can bat, but offers nothing with the ball, Stoinis, im not suprised he got selected...Would have picked him for ODI's, but not sure he is ready for test match cricket.

Ah I misread the thing about Stoinis ...ist the current ODIs hes been called up for not the tour test squad isnt it. That does make a bit more sense.
Marsh in the tests side isnt much better a prospect than him or Cartwright though. Cant bat, cant bowl. Exactly the ty

They'll probably go

Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
S. Marsh
Maxwell?
Wade
Starc
Lyon
S'oK
Hazlewood.

It's not exactly their 2001 vintage, but I think they can pose challenges if Warner and Smith can get it together. Hazlewood has more than just a touch of the McGrath's about him, and we know how succesful he was in Asia, and Starc's last trip to Asia was a wicket fest for him

kingraf wrote:Starc's last trip to Asia was a wicket fest for him

Whereas his last trip to India he went 200-2
Even at home the Indians have handled him.

Gooseberry wrote:

kingraf wrote:Starc's last trip to Asia was a wicket fest for him

Whereas his last trip to India he went 200-2
Even at home the Indians have handled him.

Out of sight improvement since then.
first 14 games, ie until the India tour: 45 wickets in 14 games at 36. Since then 93 sticks at 24.5

Steven Smith stands between Australia getting absolutely trashed or coming away with a little bit of respect.

Warner can't play on slow pitches. Khawaja is terrible against spin despite being Asian. Handscombe untested. Maxwell is a trasher. Wade will battle. But only Smith has the ability to actually play spin.

Renshaw played spin pretty well at home, obviously Asia completely different, but Renshaw looks as if he has the technique and temperament to play spin in asia

wisden wrote:Renshaw played spin pretty well at home, obviously Asia completely different, but Renshaw looks as if he has the technique and temperament to play spin in asia

Probably aided by the fact Yasir Shah bowled pitifully. Turning pitches will be a totally different kettle of fish

Will be interesting to see how Lyon gets on.

Aus is not likely to get pitches like the ones that were rolled out for Eng....but more like the ones Eng got in BD or Aus got in lanka or SA got in India last year

2 spinners + Maxwell and 2 genuine seamers + a batting allrounder is what Aus is likely to enter into the tests with.

India will look at closing this out 4-0

KP_fan wrote:

2 spinners + Maxwell and 2 genuine seamers + a batting allroucder is what Aus is likely to enter into the tests with.

That would leave...

Warner
Renshaw
Smith
Khawjhkjhljlaja
Mitch Marsh
Maxwell
Wade
Starc
Lyon
Okeefe
Hazlewood

Far too weak with the bat. Handscomb has to be in for an all rounder (pitch report decides which). Its still a weak tail.

Mitchell Marsh at five? He isn't even a six in ideal conditions!

Yes, hence the content of my post.

I dont rate Marsh in either discipline, but then at least unlike the guy you have in at 6 he doesnt have a test batting average of 13. OK Maxwell is a bit better than that in reality ...but I find it very hard to see how Aus can go in with 2 spinners and 2 seamers and 2 all rounders as KPF was suggesting. Its surely 2 spinners, 2 seamers and an all rounder ... or if that all rounder is Maxwell possibly 3 seamers and 1 specialist spinner.

Shaun Marsh ..I assume you champion off the back of him having scored a lot of runs in Sri Lanka. Personally Id find it hard to justify dropping a guy who averaged over 90- in the last series. That said S Marsh himself was somewhat unfortunate to lose his place in the side.

Regardless there will be a reliance on a small number of proper bowlers to deliver wickets, and a reliance on a small number of specialist bats for runs

Gooseberry wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

2 spinners + Maxwell and 2 genuine seamers + a batting allroucder is what Aus is likely to enter into the tests with.

 
That would leave...

Warner
Renshaw
Smith
Khawjhkjhljlaja
Mitch Marsh
Maxwell
Wade
Starc
Lyon
Okeefe
Hazlewood

Far too weak with the bat. Handscomb has to be in for an all rounder (pitch report decides which). Its still a weak tail.

that would have to be the 11

 --replacing Mitchell  with a batsman, and considering Maxwell 5th bowler is too risky.......if the fragile Starc doesn't quite break he is likely to get bowled into the ground...India has shown they can bat long

--....and replacing Maxwell with a batsman...doesn't give them too much more...as Maxwell is as competent as any other in Indian conditions, having played IPL familiar with and comfortable in Indian conditions ..... and can take game away if he clicks.

and he brings the ability to bowl handy spin...that will also be needed all the time....

--OR they can have one proper batsman( Handscomb) and one pure bowler( a 3rd spinner) in place of may Mitchell and Maxwell...but do they have a spinner significantly better than Maxell as a bowler ?. They surely need 5 bowlers in those conditions

and so their choice is:
A)--> 5 pure bowlers
OR
B)--> 4 pure bowlers and then 2 half bowlers in Mitchell and Maxwell.....hedging their bets...covering all bases.......the half bowlers being a seamer and a spinner and both quite capable batsmen when compared to the pure bowler

Well now : it is true the choices before Australia are all a little tricky and there may not be any ideal solutions...

But in this case I find myself in total agreement with Goose

(Don't worry ; I don't intend to make a habit of it )

No way can they go with two bit part players at five and six. Handscomb obviously must play. If Maxwell is selected then only one (other) spinner can be picked along with three seamers...I'd expect Marsh at six instead with two of each.

As I said , not ideal : but we all saw how well picking bits and pieces "all rounders " worked for England...

The way I see it as have 10 specialists with a place in the side and no all rounders worth a place on their own merits. Wade is a separate case, arguably a batsman keeper but not directly relevant to the bowling makeup.
Picking M Marsh and Maxwell means picking two players in a misguided attempt to balance the side whilst actually lowering the quality of the bowling if they are used. It's Ansari and Dawson magnified.
We know these guys just aren't test standard...that they made the tour at all is pretty weak.
England were in a different place ....all rounders like stokes woakes and at a stretch moeen are among the the best individuals they had available ...and weren't keeping quality specialists out of the side. England pretty much only have bits and pieces players and couldn't find 4 let alone 6 batsmen who could deserve a place. Aus can. Same goes for specialist bowlers.

Get your best players in the side ( within reason) and work the rest from there.

Ending up with Marsh Wade and Maxwell making up 5 to 7 is pure suicide. If they are playing on a pitch where theres any justification for 3 spinners (plus smith) and have time to use 3 seamers then they have probably already lost to Ashwin and Jadeja.

I looked up the test and more importantly the FC record  of Mitch Marsh.....and he averages 23 ( in reasonable sample of 19 tests) and 29 in 67 FC games respectively...

which does mean not good enough to bat in top 5 or top 6 even...and wonder how he made it and lasted so long in test matches.....

Maxwell meanwhile with a FC batting average of 40 is closer to being a batsman.

So I do amend my selection to 3 seamers + 1 spinner + Maxwell & Smith as 5th and 6th bowlers....mind you Smith started his career as a leggie...and did bowl one or two good spells last time they toured India.

as MSP pointed out oe time.....Aussies miss a trick in not having Faulkner in the squad.....who has a decent SR , average at FC level and reasonable bolwing speed of 135+ at the fastest.... to  justify his place as one of 3 seamers and would have given them some lower order batting also

Prediction on how many times Khawaja pulls clueless faces when he's embarrassed by the Indian spinners?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1078816.html

Ian chappell discusses the Aus's playing 11 in India......he's lost the edge to analyze....and for sometime now ( just like Boycott)

Both used to be quite sharp...but age doesn't spare anyone....Boycott is already 76 and Chappell closing on 74....

You mean he disagrees with you?

Im not sure what the problem is with what hes saying ...aside from pretending that Maxwell is a legitimate test bowler.

Gooseberry wrote:You mean he disagrees with you?

Im not sure what the problem is with what hes saying ...aside from pretending that Maxwell is a legitimate test bowler.

No..it's not to do with agree or disagre....he generally is finding it hard to decipher excatly what's going on around him


Under pressure to live up the image of being..... tactical he is reading too much into  "Kohli will do this and Kohli will do that....
and suggesting leaving out Lyon to accommodate Maxwell as the main off spinner

and referring to Pace as the only way to win in India referring to 1983 and 99 series...when the India team was a diffrent team

(and not remembering that Eng won in India in 1984 with spin, swing and again in 2012 with spin...)

Just saying things he is saying because he is a deemed expert.....and not based on actually and closely following up what's been going on in world cricket and upcoming Indian conditions....

and I attribute that inability to follow & decipher more precisely  what's going on around him... to his age..... and I get the same impression when I hear Boycott these days...

These guys are around I guess because they appeal to the followers sense of happy nostalgia.......more than their content anymore

As debate continues as to Australia's most suitable current team, I'll flag - with a touch of undisguised 'I told you so' - the loss caused by Shane Watson's retirement and their inability to find a suitable replacement.

Before Goose supplies a plethora of stats to equate Watson with a tin of custard, I'll readily acknowledge that he wasn't a world beater. However, I feel and even more than when he was playing, that he was an under rated and important member of a largely successful side.

Aus is about the only top side that has never had a genuine all-rounder.......the've had bowler who can bat like Alan Davidson, Richie Benaud, Mitchell Johnson.......and some batsmen who were also useful bowlers like Border, Waugh Brother, Clarke, Greg Matthews ....and a plethora of bits of pieces allrounders...

Shane Watson to me was a very high quality bits and pieces allrounder

KP_fan wrote:Aus is about the only top side that has never had a genuine all-rounder.......the've had bowler who can bat like Alan Davidson, Richie Benaud, Mitchell Johnson.......and some batsmen who were also useful bowlers like Border, Waugh Brother, Clarke, Greg Matthews ....and a plethora of bits of pieces allrounders...

Shane Watson to me was a very high quality bits and pieces allrounder

Other than Keith Miller, one of the greatest all-rounders of all time and certainly the second most stylish.

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus is about the only top side that has never had a genuine all-rounder.......the've had bowler who can bat like Alan Davidson, Richie Benaud, Mitchell Johnson.......and some batsmen who were also useful bowlers like Border, Waugh Brother, Clarke, Greg Matthews ....and a plethora of bits of pieces allrounders...

Shane Watson to me was a very high quality bits and pieces allrounder

Other than Keith Miller, one of the greatest all-rounders of all time and certainly the second most stylish.

I was just about to jump in with "What about Keith Miller?" but guildford got there first.

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus is about the only top side that has never had a genuine all-rounder.......the've had bowler who can bat like Alan Davidson, Richie Benaud, Mitchell Johnson.......and some batsmen who were also useful bowlers like Border, Waugh Brother, Clarke, Greg Matthews ....and a plethora of bits of pieces allrounders...

Shane Watson to me was a very high quality bits and pieces allrounder

Other than Keith Miller, one of the greatest all-rounders of all time and certainly the second most stylish.

yeah...Keith miller sure....my slip  
who is your "most stylish"

KP_fan wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus is about the only top side that has never had a genuine all-rounder.......the've had bowler who can bat like Alan Davidson, Richie Benaud, Mitchell Johnson.......and some batsmen who were also useful bowlers like Border, Waugh Brother, Clarke, Greg Matthews ....and a plethora of bits of pieces allrounders...

Shane Watson to me was a very high quality bits and pieces allrounder

Other than Keith Miller, one of the greatest all-rounders of all time and certainly the second most stylish.

yeah...Keith miller sure....my slip  
who is your "most stylish"

Thanks, KP_f.

Sobers in bucketloads.

Andrew Symonds must be considered pretty close. Certainly when guys like Flintoff get bandied about as genuine all rounders.

It's very rare that sides have players like Kallis....but right now Australia are struggling to find a Ricky Clarke

There was a period of about two or three years, culminating in the 05 Ashes, where Flintoff was a genuine all-rounder, in the sense that he would have made the England team for his batting, or his bowling, independently (his slip-catching a nice bonus).

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/12856.html?class=1;spanmax1=20+Sep+2005;spanmin1=23+Mar+2003;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Those are truly world class all-rounder figures, average of 43.4 with the bat (4 centuries) and 27.8 with the ball (110 wickets in 31 Tests).

Symonds by contrast averaged under one wicket per test in his 26 tests (24 wickets @ 37+), never taking more than three in an innings. So no, Symonds wasn't really remotely close to being a quality all-rounder (his ODI stats are better, though he still averages under one wicket per ODI comfortably, Flintoff is comfortably over that margin).

Fair enough...so much for me and my fact checking!

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus is about the only top side that has never had a genuine all-rounder.......the've had bowler who can bat like Alan Davidson, Richie Benaud, Mitchell Johnson.......and some batsmen who were also useful bowlers like Border, Waugh Brother, Clarke, Greg Matthews ....and a plethora of bits of pieces allrounders...

Shane Watson to me was a very high quality bits and pieces allrounder

Other than Keith Miller, one of the greatest all-rounders of all time and certainly the second most stylish.

yeah...Keith miller sure....my slip  
who is your "most stylish"

Thanks, KP_f.

Sobers in bucketloads.

I didn't watch sobers except in some B&W footage here and there ...and off course Miller was even earlier.

Imran was undoubtedly the most elegant on and off the field among those I have seen.....his open chested action with that leap at the end in the delivery stride  ....was "poetry in motion"

re: Sobers --> his bowling average of 34 and a strike of 91 balls / wicket is too moderate for a  specialist bowler....but I guess his batting average of 58 and his versatility with the ball made him a top class allrounder.

Flintoff--> I remember had a purple patch of about 4 odd years...that coincided  half and half with the end if Hussain and start of Vaughn's captaincy.......and he was as good  a fast bowling allrounder as any......bowled at 93mph+ , picked plenty of wickets and scored some specialist  batsmen like performances and....... scored at run a ball...in that patch.

his start of the career was pretty mediocre...and the tour to India 2001 saw him blossom as an allrounder.

Symonds--> was barely a part time bolwer...no where close to being an allrounder

Just joining in here a bit late.
Yes, the Australian squad makeup leaves a lot to be desired. And I find it rather surprising that they still aren't considering Faulkner for a test place when all that they've got is this much utter mediocrity. I mean Slogger Maxwell as a test all-rounder? Seriously? He still can be a high impact player in limited overs, and perhaps one day he might even become a decent test batting option. But his bowling isn't test standard.
Faulkner isn't a great bowler, he is not a great batsman. But he's not mediocre in either discipline, and any day, month and year, far better than Mitchell Marsh!

Before the Australia series, Bangladesh will be playing their first test in India. And India have recalled opener Abhinav Mukund 5 years after his last test, and the contest for the wicketkeeper spot as of now remains in Wriddhiman Saha's favor. Shami isn't fully fit yet, but Jayant Yadav is.

msp83 wrote:Before the Australia series, Bangladesh will be playing their first test in India. And India have recalled opener Abhinav Mukund 5 years after his last test, and the contest for the wicketkeeper spot as of now remains in Wriddhiman Saha's favor. Shami isn't fully fit yet, but Jayant Yadav is.

I will open another thread for BD one off test and the Ind-A vs BD game

Aus play India-A and their makeup gives away that they would prefer Maxwell over Mitch Marsh in the all rounder role.

Ind-a is solid on batting and lacking potency in bowling

 Navdeep saini plucks out the openers .....i know nothing about him and on looking up find hard to undertsand what he has done to be playing this game...

selelctors must have seen some promise as a an opening bowler

Pandya struggles to impress in the FC games he is picked for

India A going in with a pedestrian attack and got pummeled on a flattish track.
But this an indication of things. Australia has now become the bedrock of flat pitches in the world, they have highways that are of the very best quality in the world. All that is available is bounce on those track, and that is mostly consistent. But with seamers like Starc and Hazlewood, they often outbowl the opposition and their batsmen are much better on flat tracks.
Hope India won't provide them with roads, instead there would be spinning tracks. Ideally, the kind of tracks that were there in Bangladesh for the England series. Batsman of quality can score challenging runs, and the spinners are there always.......

Aussies had some good batting practice against a C grade Indian bowling

Shreyas Iyer will strengthen his case, if he completes his 100...now 85*
and opportunities missed with bat and ball by Pandya

Lyon and O Keefe 4 and 3 wickets respectively .....did well to bowl Ind-A out for 400 odd

Shreyas Iyer next in line for a middle  order slot.....cracks 202* and has grabbed his chances
Ishan Kishan and Rishab pant failed and will rue this.......FC seasons has ended and no more visitors this season....

they did not deliver when it could have counted....have to wait one more year now

Sounds like the c grade bowling has got Marsh a spot in the side.

Talk on cricinfo is

Warner
Renshaw or Kwahshdjdjsjka
Smith
SMarsh
Handscome
MMarsh
Wade
Starc
Okeefe
Hazelwood
Lyon

They're going to get absolutely battered

You'd think. But at least all this talk of Maxwell has been scotched.

The main problem I see is the horribly long tail. There's not much they can do about that with the players that they have without seriously compromising the bowling.

Hazelwood and Starc will need managing very carefully, flat pitches could destroy them.

S Marsh is one of the better batsmen currently going around in Australia. He may not, no, isn't in the league of some of the past Australian batsmen, but among the current lot, he isn't bad at all.
But his younger brother? He has utterly unearned his chances, yet keep getting chances on the basis of potential! Even Rohit Sharma hasn't been this lucky. Rohit at least is worth it as a backup at times, and is a great flat track player in ODIs. This guy is yet to show us as to why should his name be even mentioned in an international squad selection meeting! Perhaps this series would be the making of him. Perhaps he'll go on to become one of the greatest all-rounders of all time and perhaps we will remember this series by that most remarkable of all turnarounds!!!