Wales 2017 6 Nations Squad

Guess most would have seen this by now, but for those who haven't..

Wales have named a 36-man squad, featuring seven uncapped players, led by captain Alun Wyn Jones, for the forthcoming 2017 RBS 6 Nations.

Wales squad - 2017 RBS 6 Nations
Forwards:
Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues) (13 Caps)
Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (7 Caps)
Rob Evans (Scarlets) (12 Caps)
Rhodri Jones (Ospreys) (14 Caps)
Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (17 Caps)
Samson Lee (Scarlets) (29 Caps)
Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (3 Caps)
Ken Owens (Scarlets) (45 Caps)
Scott Baldwin (Ospreys (28 Caps)
Jake Ball (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (105 Caps) - Captain
Rory Thornton (Ospreys) (Uncapped)
Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (71 Caps)
Cory Hill (Newport Gwent Dragons) (3 Caps)
James King (Ospreys) (10 Caps)
Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (46 Caps)
Olly Cracknell (Ospreys) (Uncapped)
Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby) (12 Caps)
Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby) (62 Caps) *
Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues) (69 Caps)
Thomas Young (Wasps) (Uncapped)

Backs:
Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (23 Caps)
Aled Davies (Scarlets) (Uncapped)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (51 Caps)
Sam Davies (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Owen Williams (Leicester Tigers) (Uncapped)
Jamie Roberts (Harlequins) (86 Caps) *
Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (59 Caps)
Scott Williams (Scarlets) (41 Caps)
Ashton Hewitt (Newport Gwent Dragons) (Uncapped)
Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (44 Caps)
Steffan Evans (Scarlets) (Uncapped)
George North (Northampton Saints) (65 Caps) *
Liam Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (66 Caps)

* Denotes Senior Player Selection Policy wildcard selection.

Have we got 2 looseheads and 4 tightheads? Or is the Rhodri Jones experiment at 3 now over?

Some great inclusions, but how the hell Cuthbert has survived again is beyond me...

I wonder if Giles or Amos were fit, whether Cuthbert would've been dropped? I doubt it, but it would've been interesting to see.

Some very pleasing form selections in there. Sadly, I suspect most won't get an opportunity still.

Stunned to see Owen Williams selected. First because his form is poor, second he may be injured and third next season he would need a wildcard to feature.

LondonTiger wrote:Stunned to see Owen Williams selected. First because his form is poor, second he may be injured and third next season he would need a wildcard to feature.

That's assuming he is offered a Welsh Region contract. If he isn't, then they don't need the wildcards, like Charteris...

No9 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Stunned to see Owen Williams selected. First because his form is poor, second he may be injured and third next season he would need a wildcard to feature.

That's assuming he is offered a Welsh Region contract. If he isn't, then they don't need the wildcards, like Charterist...

I'm sure i read that Blues offered him a contract but Gloucester countered by paying him £400k

No9 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Stunned to see Owen Williams selected. First because his form is poor, second he may be injured and third next season he would need a wildcard to feature.

That's assuming he is offered a Welsh Region contract. If he isn't, then they don't need the wildcards, like Charteris...

OK. I thought that argument was used to try and get North off the wildcard list. Certainly it would be extremely harsh on guys like Francis and Moriarty who have never been in the welsh provincial system to force them to do so.

True Raven wrote:

No9 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Stunned to see Owen Williams selected. First because his form is poor, second he may be injured and third next season he would need a wildcard to feature.

That's assuming he is offered a Welsh Region contract. If he isn't, then they don't need the wildcards, like Charteris...

I'm sure i read that Blues offered him a contract but Gloucester countered by paying him £400k

If it was a serious offer, then your right, he would need a wildcard place. But the key is serious offer. Luke Charteris was supposed to be made an offer, but it wasn't deemed serious.

TBH, its all subjective, until a formal offer is made. For example. Any Welsh club could say they made an offer, but if it isn't deemed competitive, then it will not be considered. What if the Dragons offer Halfpenny £100 per month and the share of the company Mondeo. It could be said an offer was on the table, however, can it be deemed as sensible, if it is not a market competitive offer. The legal eagles would rip it apart, and then the "so called" Gatland's Law would be in tatters. As such, unless a competitive offer is made, you'll find that wildcard selection policy wont come into effect.

I actually, think the wildcard policy will fizzle out next year, as they find ways round it to ensure Liam Williams (amongst others) continue getting selected.

Williams was adamant the Gloucester move wouldn't affect his Wales chances, which leads me to think he wasn't offered a DNC. Then again, perhaps he was just been facetious and thought he had a 0% chance of being selected wherever he was...

Ashley Beck pretty unlucky by the way.

Really pleased for Ashton Hewitt. I thought they'd go for Steff Evans instead - so to see them both in is great.

As others have said though, having form players in the training squad is only half the battle.

Williams is on £300,000 - £400,000 (I think it is around 325k) with Glous next season.

No Welsh team will come close to offering him. (Neither did Tigers).

They wouldn't need to?

The WRU would pay 60% of any final salary so if he is on 400k then a Welsh region need "only" pay him 160k, no?

I'd be suprised if O Williams was offered a NDC as hes never been around the national squad before

RiscaGame wrote:Ashley Beck pretty unlucky by the way.

Tbh Risca, I think the best thing for Beck would be to try and stay healthy this season and then have a crack at the welsh team for the autumn internationals.

He hasn't played much the past two and a half years although his form at the moment is miles ahead of JD2 and Roberts who are both lucky imo to be picked

cascough wrote:They wouldn't need to?

The WRU would pay 60% of any final salary so if he is on 400k then a Welsh region need "only" pay him 160k, no?

Its not that simple though is it...

Both parties have to be convinced the value of a player, as the region would have to fund their share, but if the WRU didn't agree with the "valuation" then they wont offer up the rest. So whether the WRU pay 60%, it would all depend on whether both parties thought Williams was worth £400k. That is ALOT of money, for a player who hasn't broke into the international scene. So I guess they didn't think he was worth the figure he wanted.

Hoping Cracknell can make a big impact. Tackles harder than Lydiate and can carry the ball

Only one specialist number 8, and he's injured.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Really pleased for Ashton Hewitt. I thought they'd go for Steff Evans instead - so to see them both in is great.

As others have said though, having form players in the training squad is only half the battle.

Agreed, just hope they are used. Bets on Cuthbert 'really impressing in training' again though ?

LordDowlais wrote:Only one specialist number 8, and he's injured.

Probably too soon for Keddie.

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Only one specialist number 8, and he's injured.

Probably too soon for Keddie.

What's wrong with Dan Baker ?

cascough wrote:They wouldn't need to?

The WRU would pay 60% of any final salary so if he is on 400k then a Welsh region need "only" pay him 160k, no?

As Raven said Owen Williams isn't the NDC type of player yet.

In 2 seasons who knows.

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Only one specialist number 8, and he's injured.

Probably too soon for Keddie.

What's wrong with Dan Baker ?

Unless he's upped his defensive game I'd say its his defensive game.

To be honest very surprised to see Cuthbert still getting selected.

It is no surprise too see AWJ getting the captains arm band for this years 6ns. I do not think it is any thing to do with Warburton being off form or any thing like that. I think it is more to do with the up and coming Lions tour.

Now AWJ as the arm band for this years 6n, what if Wales come last, or next to last. How wiill that look on his chances of being Captain of the Lions. Not very good right.

majesticimperialman wrote:To be honest very surprised to see Cuthbert still getting selected.

It is no surprise too see AWJ getting the captains arm band for this years 6ns. I do not think it is any thing to do with Warburton being off form or any thing like that. I think it is more to do with the up and coming Lions tour.

Now AWJ as the arm band for this years 6n, what if Wales come last, or next to last. How wiill that look on  his chances of being Captain of the Lions. Not very good right.

Disagree. Nobody can justify starting Sam Warburton in this team over his competitors and what good is it to have our captain sitting on the bench.

Sam rightfully vacated the captaincy to focus on winning the 7 battle and AWJ is the natural successor as he captains a region and is highly respected.

Anyway , off topic but give me AWJ as a lions captain anyday over a hot head who will probably be banned when the tour is on

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Only one specialist number 8, and he's injured.

Probably too soon for Keddie.

What's wrong with Dan Baker ?

Unless he's upped his defensive game I'd say its his defensive game.

His defence has been good this season, and he has been in good form. We have this stupid obsession here in Wales to play players out of position, no doubt we will play Moriarty at 8, and Warburton at 6 and Tuperic at 7 when Moriarty is a far superior player at 6 than Warburton or Tuperic. I only hope that he gives Olly Cracknell or James King a go at 6, but neither of them are as good as Moriarty in that position. The back row, now that Faleteau is out, and according to his club is nowhere near full fitness, should be Moriarty at 6, Dan Baker at 8 and Tuperic at 7. But no doubt we will have some sort of mix of Warburton, Tuperic, Moriarty, and King on the bench. All because we do not have a fully fit specialist no. 8 in the squad.

Can someone explain the wildcard system to me again?
How many and whats the criteria? Just wondering why in the OP there isn't a * next to T.Francis, L.Chateris and R.Moriarty, O.Williams, T.Young and L.Halfpenny.

If they had signed a contract before the NDC kicked in then they are free to play for Wales. The next time any of them signs a new contract or moves clubs (outside of Wales) then they will need a wildcard to play for Wales.

Ah - Thanks Raven
Hence the Owen Williams discussion and the move to bring back Halfpenny.

propdavid_london wrote:Ah - Thanks Raven
Hence the Owen Williams discussion and the move to bring back Halfpenny.

Yes, and even more so now that Liam Williams will be at Saracens next season, and will be a wildcard as well.

And how many are available?

Me too, true raven. Hence why he won't need a wildcard to be picked.

No9 wrote:

cascough wrote:They wouldn't need to?

The WRU would pay 60% of any final salary so if he is on 400k then a Welsh region need "only" pay him 160k, no?

Its not that simple though is it...

Both parties have to be convinced the value of a player, as the region would have to fund their share, but if the WRU didn't agree with the "valuation" then they wont offer up the rest. So whether the WRU pay 60%, it would all depend on whether both parties thought Williams was worth £400k. That is ALOT of money, for a player who hasn't broke into the international scene. So I guess they didn't think he was worth the figure he wanted.

I've fallen a bit behind the thread here, but I said that first! It wasn't me who insisted he would be need a wildcard to be picked (and hence was offered a DNC).

True Raven wrote:If they had signed a contract before the NDC kicked in then they are free to play for Wales.  The next time any of them signs a new contract or moves clubs (outside of Wales) then they will need a wildcard to play for Wales.

This is incorrect.

Liam Williams was offered a DNC but refused and opted to play outside Wales. He will need to be a wildcard pick.

Owen Williams was not offered a DNC. Therefore he can play outside Wales and still be freely considered for Wales selection.

My understanding is there is no limit on the number of foreign based players Wales can select, as long as they were not offered a DNC.

propdavid_london wrote:And how many are available?

3 I think, with an additional one next year

cascough wrote:

True Raven wrote:If they had signed a contract before the NDC kicked in then they are free to play for Wales.  The next time any of them signs a new contract or moves clubs (outside of Wales) then they will need a wildcard to play for Wales.

This is incorrect.

Liam Williams was offered a DNC but refused and opted to play outside Wales. He will need to be a wildcard pick.

Owen Williams was not offered a DNC. Therefore he can play outside Wales and still be freely considered for Wales selection.

My understanding is there is no limit on the number of foreign based players Wales can select, as long as they were not offered a DNC.

I was explaining the situation with the current English based players such as Moriarty and Francis.

I've just re read the Owen Williams to Cardiff Blues story and it mentions Cardiff were interested but stopped short of a formal bid so he would not need a wildcard as you stated

Sure, but unless Francis or Moriarty are offered a DNC of equal market value next time they sign a contract or move clubs, then they still won't need to be a wildcard pick.

As someone has mentioned, this is why Charteris is not a wildcard pick.

I thought Charteris is not a wildcard pick because no region made an offer to him so he was free to sign with who he wanted.

If Toulon offer Halfpenny £800,000 but the NDC or the Blues solely can only muster up £400,000 then he would need a wildcard. I dont think it matters if its equal value because id wager a lot of money that Liam Williams was offered more money by Saracens than the NDC would have been

True Raven wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:To be honest very surprised to see Cuthbert still getting selected.

It is no surprise too see AWJ getting the captains arm band for this years 6ns. I do not think it is any thing to do with Warburton being off form or any thing like that. I think it is more to do with the up and coming Lions tour.

Now AWJ as the arm band for this years 6n, what if Wales come last, or next to last. How wiill that look on  his chances of being Captain of the Lions. Not very good right.

Disagree.  Nobody can justify starting Sam Warburton in this team over his competitors and what good is it to have our captain sitting on the bench.

Sam rightfully vacated the captaincy to focus on winning the 7 battle and AWJ is the natural successor as he captains a region and is highly respected.

Anyway , off topic but give me AWJ as a lions captain anyday over a hot head who will probably be banned when the tour is on

What hot head are you referring too?

True Raven wrote:I thought Charteris is not a wildcard pick because no region made an offer to him so he was free to sign with who he wanted.

If Toulon offer Halfpenny £800,000 but the NDC or the Blues solely can only muster up £400,000 then he would need a wildcard.  I dont think it matters if its equal value because id wager a lot of money that Liam Williams was offered more money by Saracens than the NDC would have been

I believe Charteris has been excluded from needing a Wild Card as he claimed to have signed his contract before the Regional offer came in, Sanjay was offered as big a deal at the Scarlets as he was by Saracens but has stated he is moving for other reasons outside rugby. so will definitely be captured by Gatlands law, however Gatland will continue to just move the goal posts to do whatever he wants anyway which kind of makes the system pointless.

2ndtimeround wrote:

True Raven wrote:I thought Charteris is not a wildcard pick because no region made an offer to him so he was free to sign with who he wanted.

If Toulon offer Halfpenny £800,000 but the NDC or the Blues solely can only muster up £400,000 then he would need a wildcard.  I dont think it matters if its equal value because id wager a lot of money that Liam Williams was offered more money by Saracens than the NDC would have been

I believe Charteris has been excluded from needing a Wild Card as he claimed to have signed his contract before the Regional offer came in, Sanjay was offered as big a deal at the Scarlets as he was by Saracens but has stated he is moving for other reasons outside rugby. so will definitely be captured by Gatlands law, however Gatland will continue to just move the goal posts to do whatever he wants anyway which kind of makes the system pointless.

Spot on.

im still puzzled by 4 tightheads but only 2 looseheads

True Raven wrote:im still puzzled by 4 tightheads but only 2 looseheads

why howler has stated he is looking for players that can cover both 1 and 3 hence selection of rhodri.

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote:im still puzzled by 4 tightheads but only 2 looseheads

why howler has stated he is looking for players that can cover both 1 and 3 hence selection of rhodri.

When was the last time rhodri played loosehead? We're talking about a squad for international rugby, the highest level and not premiership rugby. I'd rather a player who actually plays that position like Rhys gill

True Raven wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote:im still puzzled by 4 tightheads but only 2 looseheads

why howler has stated he is looking for players that can cover both 1 and 3 hence selection of rhodri.

When was the last time rhodri played loosehead?  We're talking about a squad for international rugby, the highest level and not premiership rugby.  I'd rather a player who actually plays that position like Rhys gill

why surprised, he binned the captain and selected 7 new players while also selecting Cuffbert. Having a 3rd choice TH prop who can cover LH makes sense to me, James did it well enough for years.

True Raven wrote:I thought Charteris is not a wildcard pick because no region made an offer to him so he was free to sign with who he wanted.

If Toulon offer Halfpenny £800,000 but the NDC or the Blues solely can only muster up £400,000 then he would need a wildcard.  I dont think it matters if its equal value because id wager a lot of money that Liam Williams was offered more money by Saracens than the NDC would have been

It was actually reported at the time that the NDC offer was for more money than Saracens were offering. Williams obviously fancied playing for Europes best club and wagered that he would definitely be a wildcard pick. Plus his girlfriend lives/works in London.

cascough wrote:

True Raven wrote:I thought Charteris is not a wildcard pick because no region made an offer to him so he was free to sign with who he wanted.

If Toulon offer Halfpenny £800,000 but the NDC or the Blues solely can only muster up £400,000 then he would need a wildcard.  I dont think it matters if its equal value because id wager a lot of money that Liam Williams was offered more money by Saracens than the NDC would have been

It was actually reported at the time that the NDC offer was for more money than Saracens were offering. Williams obviously fancied playing for Europes best club and wagered that he would definitely be a wildcard pick. Plus his girlfriend lives/works in London.

This was a bigger driving factor, IMO. Or to put it another way, if she'd lived in Llanelli or close by then the lure of 'playing for Europe's best club' wouldn't have swung it. Again, IMO.

Two questions for you fine Welsh supporters.

Who do you think should be the starting back line?

And who do you think howley will pick?

Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (23 Caps)
Aled Davies (Scarlets) (Uncapped)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (51 Caps)
Sam Davies (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Owen Williams (Leicester Tigers) (Uncapped)
Jamie Roberts (Harlequins) (86 Caps) *
Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (59 Caps)
Scott Williams (Scarlets) (41 Caps)
Ashton Hewitt (Newport Gwent Dragons) (Uncapped)
Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (44 Caps)
Steffan Evans (Scarlets) (Uncapped)
George North (Northampton Saints) (65 Caps) *
Liam Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (66 Caps)

Mine
G Davies, S Davies, Hewitt, Sc Williams, Davies (meh), Evans, L Williams

Rhys Webb has been injured, as has North been out a few games here and there with his concussion issues (plus I believe the other two wingers in better form). Would rather somebody else at 13 than Davies and would possibly consider Owen Williams 12 and Scott Williams 13.

Howley
Webb, Biggar, North, Roberts, Davies, L Williams, Halfpenny