Ulster 2016/2017

by marty2086 Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:43 am

First topic message reminder :

And it's been confirmed

Ulster Rugby has today announced that Jono Gibbes will join the Province as Head Coach ahead of the 2017/18 season, having signed a two-year contract.

The former New Zealand player is currently Forwards Coach at French giants ASM Clermont Auvergne and he previously held a similar position at Leinster Rugby.

Gibbes joined Leinster in 2008, helping the squad to win three Heineken Cup titles during a six-year spell in Dublin. The first of those successes came under the stewardship of Michael Cheika in 2009, before he assisted Joe Schmidt in the 2011 and 2012 triumphs.

He moved to France in 2014 and was part of a coaching set-up that guided Clermont to the Top 14 and Champions Cup finals in his debut season.

In addition to his expertise in forward play, the 40-year-old has also gained valuable experience in coaching other aspects of the game, such as attack, during his stints at Leinster and Clermont.

Gibbes said that there were many contributing factors in his move back to Ireland:

"The respect that I have for Les (Kiss), as a coach and as a person, was one of my main reasons for making this decision. He really sold his vision of where he wants to take Ulster over the next few years.

"Ulster is a team that I know well, having come up against them on a number of occasions. The Clermont-Ulster games this season gave me an insight into the strengths of the squad and it's exciting to think that I'll be part of that environment from next season.

"With 6 years at Leinster and 3 years at Clermont in the Top 14, I've been afforded many different experiences, working with some very talented coaches and players. I hope to apply what I've learned to the role at Ulster and my family and I are looking forward to integrating into a strong community in Belfast."

Welcoming the news, Director of Rugby Les Kiss, added:

"Jono's CV speaks for itself and I know that he's looking forward to joining Ulster and working with the team. Jono has vast experience on both the playing and coaching fronts, having worked in many different environments such as Super Rugby, PRO12, the French Top 14 and European competitions.

"Since his retirement from playing, Jono has had an integral role in the coaching teams of two of European rugby's most successful sides. He was a key part of the Leinster set-up that won three Heineken Cups in four years and he has continued to be hugely successful during his time in France.

"Jono's expertise as a Forwards Coach is obvious, however his wealth of knowledge in other areas of the game will be really important for us."

"A review of the coaching structure is ongoing ahead of next season and the appointment of Jono as Head Coach is the first part of that process. A further announcement will be made in the coming weeks, which will focus on getting the right balance in our coaching team."

by SecretFly Wed 15 Feb 2017, 4:34 pm

Well, we'll see. Maybe Jonno is the catalyst that might finally find a way of breaking down that presumed barrier.

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 11:53 am

Having impressed Kiss thoroughly at the interview stage, the Australian is looking forward to teaming up with Peel and praised the work done behind the scenes to get a deal done.

"I'm very pleased that Dwayne will join us from next season," he said. "He's a talented coach who has a great understanding of the game and I'm really excited by what he will bring to our environment.

"It was obvious through my discussions with Dwayne that he has an exceptional coaching eye and he will provide us with refreshing insight and ideas."

Peel, who like many of the Ulster playing squad is represented by the Esportif agency, is excited by the fresh start.

"I'm delighted to have this opportunity," he said.

"Ulster is one of the big clubs in European rugby and I'm looking forward to working with a large contingent of quality players.

"Coaching was always a natural progression for me and I'm really enjoying my role with Bristol.

"Over the years I've spent time in different environments trying to pick things up that will benefit my career and this move to Belfast is another step in the right direction.

"I've talked with Les a lot over the past couple of weeks and it's exciting for me to work with someone of his calibre. I'm looking forward to getting started in the summer, but my focus will be with Bristol until the end of the season."

The announcement was the second in three days on the make-up of next season's coaching ticket.

It was revealed in the Belfast Telegraph last month that current coaches Neil Doak and Allen Clarke would not be offered new deals at the end of the current campaign, with their replacements now known to be Peel and former Leinster forwards coach Jono Gibbes, with current skills coach Niall Malone remaining in the set-up.

Gibbes, who it was confirmed on Monday will be handed the title of head coach previously held by Doak, will arrive from Clermont with Kiss believing the blend of experience and youthful enthusiasm will serve the side well for 2017/18.

"After Jono agreed to join us, it was clear that Dwayne was going to be a great fit for our coaching group for next season."

Ulster have already recruited Connacht scrum-half John Cooney and Springbok back-rower Arno Botha to their playing squad with an additional front-row signing also believed to be in the offing.

Interesting piece about Peel coming in, seems there was an interview process leading up to his appointment. Says to me that Doak and Clarke were probably dead men walking before the season began.

Also says Malone stays.

Rereading the story about Tom Arscott and the fact that two Bristol coaches were passed information from him, I wonder if one of them was Peel.

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 12:21 pm

Esportif

In one word there's you reason Peel got the job

The influence of Constable goes a long way

Agree seems Malone is staying - my question is who is handling the defence.
Gibbes is good but Head Coach, forwards and defence is a heavy load

Really, really don't like the idea of Kiss being defence coach - Gibbes is Kiss boss except when Kiss is Gibbes boss Headscratch

Not a good idea

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 12:32 pm

Really cant see Kiss being defence coach now when he seems to be stepping back from coaching, could someone like Wilson be stepping in there next season?

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 1:21 pm

Nor can I but someone mentioned it above.

Wilson please god no; how shall I put it - there aspect of his conduct that are less than desirable

by **rodders** Thu 16 Feb 2017, 1:22 pm

geoff999rugby wrote: Esportif

In one word there's you reason Peel got the job

The influence of Constable goes a long way

I thought he was an odd choice.... the jobs for the boys club has just widened its net...

by Pete330v2 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 1:53 pm

I may have mentioned previously that Kiss could well be taking on the defence role, that's purely based on his coaching history but I do hope he doesn't.
I knew I had a bad feeling about Peel's appointment, I should always trust my gut. I'll wait until I'm proven wrong but hiring someone who's been helping to captain a sinking ship wouldn't be the best practice IMO. Please prove me wrong Mr Peel.

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 2:00 pm

Given Esportif's size these days its probably hard to find a player or ex player they don't represent. Isn't Piutau a client of theirs?

Bristol may well get relegated but they were always at a disadvantage going into this season

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 2:01 pm

On Esportif though, they don't represent many in Ireland outside of Ulster do they?

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:32 pm

Esportif do represent a number of players outside Ireland but they definitely have a strong Ulster centric bias

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:51 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Esportif do represent a number of players outside Ireland but they definitely have a strong Ulster centric bias

Esportif are the biggest agency in the world are they not? At least in rugby

What I was wondering was if they are so influential in Ulster as you suggest does it affect recruitment of players who aren't clients?

They represent 22 players in Ireland and 8 aren't Ulster players. The rest are Donncha Ryan, Kearney Jr., Toner, vDF, Ross, Roux, Sean Cronin and Furlong.

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:55 pm

marty2086 wrote:
What I was wondering was if they are so influential in Ulster as you suggest does it affect recruitment of players who aren't clients?

My understanding is Esportif are the first port of call when Ulster go looking for players

Constable is totally in with the management
Cunningham came from Esportif
Paddy Wallace had relatives working for Esportif

Think of Ulster as a building, Esportif are like Ivy that is so entwined in the brickwork it has become part of the structure itself

by Guest Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:56 pm

Thought the Peel signing was a bit odd, and now it makes sense that he is with Esportif. As Rodders said, not so much 'jobs for the local boys', but 'jobs for Esportif boys'. Peel might turn out to be a good coach though, so wait and see.

Ferris has said that Doak was head coach in name only. Kiss did 75% of the coaching, according to Ferris. That's not a great reflection on Kiss as a coach, and doesn't bode well for Ulster if Kiss remains defense coach. Really hope we are getting a new defense coach, and Kiss steps back from any coaching role with the senior squad.

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:59 pm

I reckon Stephen Ferris was spot on - Doak was an Irish figurehead - Kiss calls the shots.

He has too when his two senior coaches wont talk to each other !

On a brighter note everything I have heard about Peel is positive - seems like a smart cookie

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:00 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
What I was wondering was if they are so influential in Ulster as you suggest does it affect recruitment of players who aren't clients?

My understanding is Esportif are the first port of call when Ulster go looking for players

Constable is totally in with the management
Cunningham came from Esportif
Paddy Wallace had relatives working for Esportif

Think of Ulster as a building, Esportif are like Ivy that is so entwined in the brickwork it has become part of the structure itself

I'd say they are well in with BBC Sport NI too since all the analysts seem to be their clients

You left out Humphs coming from Esportif which was then Cornerflag too and little brother is now working for them

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:02 pm

Marty good memory re the Humphreys - as I said they are part of the very structure that is Ulster rugby

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:02 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:I reckon Stephen Ferris was spot on - Doak was an Irish figurehead - Kiss calls the shots.

He has too when his two senior coaches wont talk to each other !

Was it not you geoff who said at the time that Doak was off if he didn't get the head coach role? Maybe it was the title he wanted

by SecretFly Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:04 pm

Monopoly presence in any activity is always a bit of a worry and allows people to be somewhat suspicious of the influences imposed on these buying and selling issues.

I know very little about these agencies but if an agency like Esportif represents a large majority of Professional rugby players in the world (as hinted at by marty) then perhaps that wouldn't be a healthy environment to conduct worldwide buying and selling activities in.

by marty2086 Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:Monopoly presence in any activity is always a bit of a worry and allows people to be somewhat suspicious of the influences imposed on these buying and selling issues.

I know very little about these agencies but if an agency like Esportif represents a large majority of Professional rugby players in the world (as hinted at by marty) then perhaps that wouldn't be a healthy environment to conduct worldwide buying and selling activities in.

There are quite a few agencies about and players don't have to have agents as far as Im aware. Esportif claimed they are the biggest in the world but having say 4% of the players on their books while 40 or 50 other agencies represent the rest isn't a big thing could all be PR guff.

I know in football most clubs have a go to agent or agency they use and sometimes its healthy and sometimes not, its a double edged sword as it probably got us Piutau but then that mightn't be a good thing

by Guest Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:12 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:I reckon Stephen Ferris was spot on - Doak was an Irish figurehead - Kiss calls the shots.

He has too when his two senior coaches wont talk to each other !

It seems that relationships became a bit toxic, especially between Doak and Clarke. I also heard a rumour that Tuohy had a spat with either Barakat or Clarke, can't remember which one, and that he was shown the door. Just a rumour and I don't know how true it is. The bad feeling between Doak and Clarke must have a negative effect on the squad though, and if neither can put their differences aside for the good of Ulster Rugby, then it's right that they leave.

by geoff999rugby Thu 16 Feb 2017, 7:15 pm

True enough Tuohy thought the coaches were a joke and said so.
Having said that a move to Bristol suited him - going back home.

He is not alone in that thoughts.

Marty I don't think I ever said Doak would go if he wasn't head coach, must have been someone else.
The reality is he was only ever Head Coach in practise during the World Cup - as soon as it was over Kiss took up the roll in every regard bar the name.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 16 Feb 2017, 7:44 pm

Munchkin wrote:Thought the Peel signing was a bit odd, and now it makes sense that he is with Esportif. As Rodders said, not so much 'jobs for the local boys', but 'jobs for Esportif boys'. Peel might turn out to be a good coach though, so wait and see.

Ferris has said that Doak was head coach in name only. Kiss did 75% of the coaching, according to Ferris. That's not a great reflection on Kiss as a coach, and doesn't bode well for Ulster if Kiss remains defense coach. Really hope we are getting a new defense coach, and Kiss steps back from any coaching role with the senior squad.

Hopefully these changes will re-energise Ulster next season. Outside shout for a defense coach, what's Shane Jennings doing these days? Would have played under Gibbes and looked like he was trying to get into the coaching ticket at Leinster until the space was earmarked for Cullen so to speak.

by Don Alfonso Fri 17 Feb 2017, 8:12 am

Someone on the Other Forum says three announcements to cone, two of which are coaches.

by marty2086 Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:03 am

Don Alfonso wrote:Someone on the Other Forum says three announcements to cone, two of which are coaches.

Was that not last week they said that?

by Don Alfonso Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:10 am

Sorry - quite right. I hope we have at least one "small" name is add. Or get Johnny Bell back.

by marty2086 Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:20 am

We are due a LH announcement are we not?

Gloucesters defence isn't exactly cutting it these days though he may well be unemployed next season if Altrad ever completes his take over

by Pete330v2 Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:38 am

Bell can stay where he is with his mate Humphreys.

The loosehead signing will be announced, that Van der Merwe guy the Geoff told us about. The other 2 coaching announcements surely will be the ones telling dumb and dumber where the door is Smile

by geoff999rugby Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:56 am

Will be interesting to see how many fringe Irish players Schmidt wants playing tomorrow.

Theoretically we could have an enforced back line from Trimble, Gilroy, McCloskey, Marshall, Bowe
One thing is for sure if he wants any of them getting game time they will get game time

With Olding, Cave, Piatau all out or doubtful it could be virtually forced on us anyway.

Ludik at 15 I would imagine

by geoff999rugby Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:59 am

I agree Bell lets have afresh start with no one part of the old failed structure that is Ulster rugby.

If we are to fundamentally change how the club incl. academy operate and also change the relationship with clubs and schools, better to do it without people who come from that structure.

Don't thing he is available anyway

by Don Alfonso Fri 17 Feb 2017, 11:17 am

No fair enough. But our defense was excellent under Bell, that's all. Presumably why he was poached but no-one came looking for any of the others...

by marty2086 Fri 17 Feb 2017, 12:26 pm

Ulster team & replacements to play Glasgow Warriors, Guinness PRO12, Saturday 18th February, Kingspan Stadium (3.00pm kick-off):
(15-9): L Ludik, T Bowe, L Marshall, D Cave, C Gilroy, P Nelson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): C Black, J Andrew, R Lutton, P Browne, F van der Merwe, S Reidy, C Henry (C), M Coetzee;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, W Herbst, K Treadwell, R Diack, P Marshall, J Stockdale, J Owens.

by geoff999rugby Fri 17 Feb 2017, 12:39 pm

Darren making it is excellent, and that guy returning at 9 isn't too shabby.
Can the front 5 do the business ? - if so every chance

by Redman Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:03 pm

Cave 12 and Marshall at 13. I'd think that's at Joe's request.

Front row is the concern. Nice that Owens might get a run out.

by marty2086 Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:04 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Darren making it is excellent, and that guy returning at 9 isn't too shabby.
Can the front 5 do the business ? - if so every chance

Wouldn't have minded seeing Treadwell start and Shanahan on the bench but Lutton ahead of Herbst worries me and Andrew needs to work on his hooking

Great to have Pienaar back, we need to win this game and it takes us above Glasgow and can really give us momentum going into 4 games against the 3 bottom sides, we should on paper win and get a number of bonus points from but in the past have found ourselves tripping up in one or more of them.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:11 pm

Redman wrote:Cave 12 and Marshall at 13. I'd think that's at Joe's request.

Front row is the concern. Nice that Owens might get a run out.

The logic in swapping two players out of their natural best positions...sometimes I just don't know what to say.

by geoff999rugby Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:12 pm

Herbst not fully fit.

Cave and Marshall the wrong way round is a pain.

Looking like Trimble must have a serious injury

Treadwell and AOC took knocks against Edinburgh so the second row changes were expected

by geoff999rugby Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:14 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Redman wrote:Cave 12 and Marshall at 13. I'd think that's at Joe's request.

Front row is the concern. Nice that Owens might get a run out.

The logic in swapping two players out of their natural best positions...sometimes I just don't know what to say.

For the benefit of Ireland not an Ulster decision - I suspect if either Henshaw or Ringrose trip over their shoe laces Marshall will come in and Schmidt wants to get him as much game time as possible at 13.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 17 Feb 2017, 2:31 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Redman wrote:Cave 12 and Marshall at 13. I'd think that's at Joe's request.

Front row is the concern. Nice that Owens might get a run out.

The logic in swapping two players out of their natural best positions...sometimes I just don't know what to say.

For the benefit of Ireland not an Ulster decision - I suspect if either Henshaw or Ringrose trip over their shoe laces Marshall will come in and Schmidt wants to get him as much game time as possible at 13.

If he realised that Henshaw is actually a better 13, Cave is a better 13 than Marshall and that Marshall is stronger at 12 things would begin to make a bit more sense...

by Guest Fri 17 Feb 2017, 7:47 pm

marty2086 wrote:Ulster team & replacements to play Glasgow Warriors, Guinness PRO12, Saturday 18th February, Kingspan Stadium (3.00pm kick-off):
(15-9): L Ludik, T Bowe, L Marshall, D Cave, C Gilroy, P Nelson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): C Black, J Andrew, R Lutton, P Browne, F van der Merwe, S Reidy, C Henry (C), M Coetzee;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, W Herbst, K Treadwell, R Diack, P Marshall, J Stockdale, J Owens.

Bowe starting on D4 orders. Not certain that L Marshall is starting at 13 on D4 orders as he's switched to that position anyway. Cave is the smarter 13 but, contrary to some opinions here, I really like Marshall at 13.

Shanahan deserved the bench spot over Marshall. He played the better of the two, last week.

Think our starting pack is strong enough and, with Herring, Herbst and Treadwell to come off the bench, we should win the forwards battle, especially with a backrow of Reidy, Henry and Coetzee.

A strong backline, but Stockdale should be starting. The return of Pienaar is obviously a massive bonus.

We should win, but this is an Ulster side coached by numpties. So still a wee bit nervous. Hopefully the win last week, the return of Pienaar and the news that Gibbes is on the way, will have given this squad a real lift, and an injection of much needed confidence.

by geoff999rugby Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:50 pm

Munchkin wrote: Not certain that L Marshall is starting at 13 on D4 orders as he's switched to that position anyway. Cave is the smarter 13 but, contrary to some opinions here, I really like Marshall at 13.

A strong backline, but Stockdale should be starting. .

I believe Marshall is on D4 orders.

I think for many of us Marshall is an ok 13 but a better 12 and what definitely doesn't work is McCloskey at 12 and Marshall at 13.

Stockdale not starting because D4 want Bowe and Gilroy to have game time.
They could well be head to head for a start against France if Zebo goes to 15.

by clivemcl Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:13 pm

Bowe in an Ireland shirt again? At a time when Ulster supporters are suggesting hecould be 5th choice winger with everyone fit??
Most were shocked he was included in the training squad.

by The Great Aukster Fri 17 Feb 2017, 11:14 pm

Anscombe tried to make Luke into a bosh 12 even though he was a footballing 12, but the consequence was he suffered a series of concussions threatening to end his career. Moving him one out protects him to some extent from the attentions of opposition backrows, so like Munchkin I'd prefer to see him at 13. He may not have searing pace but he's still quicker than Cave and better in defence.

Bowe is still a class player who is not ready for the scrap heap yet, and Ulster could do worse than resuscitate his life as a 13 if they end up with more wings that outside centres.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 17 Feb 2017, 11:14 pm

It's Joe. He's as conservative in his selection policies as Kidney, if not more so. He just avoids the same criticism because he can actually coach a team.

by geoff999rugby Sat 18 Feb 2017, 9:26 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Anscombe tried to make Luke into a bosh 12 even though he was a footballing 12, but the consequence was he suffered a series of concussions threatening to end his career. Moving him one out protects him to some extent from the attentions of opposition backrows, so like Munchkin I'd prefer to see him at 13. He may not have searing pace but he's still quicker than Cave and better in defence.

Bowe is still a class player who is not ready for the scrap heap yet, and Ulster could do worse than resuscitate his life as a 13 if they end up with more wings that outside centres.

Cave organises our defence superbly as does Payne, Marshall is not as good.

He is a great second '5/8th' (to use a SH term) - a 12 does not have to be a bosh 12 - that is only because we have had a poor back row and pathetic local coaches.
Neither of those two statements are true for next year

by geoff999rugby Sat 18 Feb 2017, 9:28 am

clivemcl wrote:Bowe in an Ireland shirt again? At a time when Ulster supporters are suggesting hecould be 5th choice winger with everyone fit??
Most were shocked he was included in the training squad.

It is because, if you ignore the inexperienced players who he does not want to blood till the summer, the only wingers standing are Earls, Zebo, Gilroy and Bowe.

I have high hopes of Sweetman, Bryne and Stockdale but currently the back three is the weakest part of the Irish set up

by jimbopip Sat 18 Feb 2017, 12:55 pm

has anyone got a link for today's game? Ta kiss

by SecretFly Sat 18 Feb 2017, 12:57 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Bowe in an Ireland shirt again? At a time when Ulster supporters are suggesting hecould be 5th choice winger with everyone fit??
Most were shocked he was included in the training squad.

It is because, if you ignore the inexperienced players who he does not want to blood till the summer, the only wingers standing are Earls, Zebo, Gilroy and Bowe.

I have high hopes of Sweetman, Bryne and Stockdale but currently the back three is the weakest part of the Irish set up

Whilst I think you're probably right on the reading of that, Geoff, I've never really understood this. Ireland always seems to be waiting for yet another summer tour to 'try out' the potential. The number of seasons (must be decades now) that I've been listening to that from the coaches and the journalists. We still continue to pamper our young gifted players more than other sides allow themselves to do so and I'm not so sure it really does pay back sufficiently. Our established backs (the ones we use for the Big games) are then always that little bit older, that little bit gone off their more electric youthful selves, that little bit more predictable to our opposition.
The inexperienced players aren't children - they're professional players. We should stop patronising them and give them their shots earlier. We should let them in when they are good enough to be in or good enough to at least charge the team with possibilities that opposition coaches might not have planned for.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 18 Feb 2017, 3:44 pm

Luke Marshall and Sean Reidy having big games today.

by Redman Sat 18 Feb 2017, 4:35 pm

Joe has told Gilroy and Bowe they're battling it out for the Ireland wing shirt. You can see the motivation to perform.

by carpet baboon Sat 18 Feb 2017, 4:59 pm

Were we as good as the score suggests?

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