England vs Italy

First topic message reminder :

28 players that have been kept.

Forwards (16): Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs (12): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

tigertattie wrote:Mike brown, what was that? And folk day Hogg's defence is bad!!!

That was incredible stepping. Please don't be so cocky as to not acknowledge top class when you see it.

Fair play to Italy's tactics. It's up to England to work it out. It's not the Italians fault.

When was the last time an Italian player went round, through or over four England players to score? Bloody terrible defending from all of Ford, Daly, George and Brown. Great play from Campagnaro.

I think the different Italian tactics are great. Just wish they'd have deployed them against Ireland first.

See, Ben Youngs did the right thing there.

The officials also seem to think there's no offside line from kicks either though ... time and again Italy have been offside from kicks ..

Heaf, you deserve your own offical bashing thread.

We're still not getting it.

The forwards have to take it up the middle - smash em.

Farell's got a foot like a sheriff's badge: points in all directions.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

Except Poite incorrectly told England they couldn't just pull players in ...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaf, you deserve your own offical bashing thread.

Thanks

Who is paying these officials?!

For gods sake this game is a farce!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

Yes I heard the commentators say it was done in the Super rugby...I couldn't care less. Its an appalling tactic.

Heaf wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

Except Poite incorrectly told England they couldn't just pull players in ...

No, he said they couldn't pull players in when the tackle is being made but after the tackle is completed. Basically when the ruck is being formed. You hold onto the tackler/assistant tacklers.

Jesus, this game is a total cluster f*ck.

It's not just the tactic that's the problem though it's Poite calling it wrong half the time and telling England they can't pull players in ...

That's one for the fat boys

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

Yes I heard the commentators say it was done in the Super rugby...I couldn't care less. Its an appalling tactic.

To frustrated England fans perhaps. Other fans have enjoyed it (as they did when the Chiefs introduced it a couple of years ago).

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Heaf wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

Except Poite incorrectly told England they couldn't just pull players in ...

No, he said they couldn't pull players in when the tackle is being made but after the tackle is completed. Basically when the ruck is being formed. You hold onto the tackler/assistant tacklers.

He said the blue player had to initiate the contact ...

Pick and go everytime

Ah well, Italy now following the script and capitulating after getting tired

I blame our players for not adapting to the tactic rather than a team who have disrupted our play very well.

Loving the Italian tactics today, great to see that such things can come off.

Lol

Scottrf wrote:I blame our players for not adapting to the tactic rather than a team who have disrupted our play very well.

that too

Well we won't forget this game.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I hope the people whinging at Italy trying a new tactic are kidding...

No I'm not. Its an appalling tactic. Hugely negative. ANd if it was Italy v Ireland or Scotland etc I would say exactly the same.

It isn't new. The Chiefs did it in Super Rugby. Smart teams adapted and just capitalised on the lack of people at the ruck or pulled defenders in. Italy are overdoing it and England haven't reacted properly.

Yes I heard the commentators say it was done in the Super rugby...I couldn't care less. Its an appalling tactic.

To frustrated England fans perhaps. Other fans have enjoyed it (as they did when the Chiefs introduced it a couple of years ago).

I'm a bit old fashioned . I completely agree England should definitely have adapted...but as I said above its not because I'm a frustrated England fan. If I was watching Italy v Ireland and the same thing was happening I would hate it.

Italy had to try something, I have no issues with it. Hope this stops people saying they should be kicked out, although looks like it's done the opposite for some

I was a fan of Italy staying in the six nations, but if they don't want to play rugby then they can F off, bring in relegation and gt rid of them.

"man with the beard!

Finisher

Somehow I doubt it will work again however - shame they decided to try it today

What has happened to Owen Farrell's kicking game? He's mullering my chances at the 6N fantasy league.

I love wikipedia sometimes:

Notes:
Italy created some innovative play which led to England asking for a rules clarification from the referee, Romain Poite. Poite famously told the England team "I'm a referee, not a coach."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Six_Nations_Championship

The bloody game hasn't finished yet.... and it's famous already

Itoje's charge down. He's on the ground, grabs the ball, holds it, rolls over and presents. I thought if you go to ground you must release, and if you are on the ground you can't touch the ball??

F off you Italians

How can Nowell not start?

This has been a game completely void of structure, shape and sense.

I'm looking forward to France vs Italy

Not sure we'll see May again for some time

Thank God it's over, the less said the better. The referee made the game a total mess.

Nowell showing why he should start...

11 May / Watson
14 Nowell
15 Daly

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nowell showing why he should start...

11 May / Watson
14 Nowell
15 Daly

I've been saying for some time we need to understand how to use out back 3

Brown will be dropped soon.

Shifty wrote:Thank God it's over, the less said the better.  The referee made the game a total mess.

Totally agree but I cant blame the ref. It was an odd game. Itay played horrible tactics, England didn't adapt as they should

Mess all round.

kingelderfield wrote:Not sure we'll see May again for some time

Add in Ford, Brown, Hartley as well

Italy can be happy with their day but need more of an 80 minutes in them to resist these 4th quarter assaults.  So they used craftiness, so what?  That's rugby - do something to catch out your opponents. The less skilful/fit you are, the more you need the legal tricks .
If it helps them get some self-confidence up and going then good for them.  A LOT of work but nobody expected that level of competition between those two - even forcing Eddie to change players quite early.

Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

AWJ for captain and Best has been easily the Best hooker.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

A BP win in the end, all we needed. Hopefully Watson and Mako will start the next one and we'll be ever closer to full strength.

Shifty wrote:I love wikipedia sometimes:  

Notes:
Italy created some innovative play which led to England asking for a rules clarification from the referee, Romain Poite. Poite famously told the England team "I'm a referee, not a coach."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Six_Nations_Championship

The bloody game hasn't finished yet.... and it's famous already

The thing is, a lot of referees do act like coaches. They often tell players they are acting illegally (e.g. "Hands away") rather than penalising them, so it's not surprising players end up asking directly for guidance.

Brown had a typically solid game for me.

Credit to Italy for trying something different and making a contest of it.

Poor from England for not reacting quick enough. But you know, bonus point win, we'll learn from it.