Silly Season Transfer Rumours 16/17

First topic message reminder :

Gordon Reid is off to Irish.

So Big Vern has signed Louis Picamoles, Aaron Cruden and Ruan Pienaar. 

I pity whichever poor bunch of sods need to play them in next year's Champions Cup.


Oh. 

That's a cheeky group George.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welly wrote: I mean Montepilier was Picamoles first club.

Think he have family there.

Came through the academy there but was born in Paris.

And?

Ford seems to be similar case.

Both players really wanted to move.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welly wrote: I mean Montepilier was Picamoles first club.

Think he have family there.

Came through the academy there but was born in Paris.

And?

Ford seems to be similar case.

Both players really wanted to move.

As far as anyone is aware Picamoles was happy at Saints but was tempted (very understandably) into a move to Montpelier. Anyone who watches Ford at Bath last season will have noted that he didn't look happy. He was desperate to get out, given his options were Sale or Tigers we were always likely to be the preferred choice.

Still in both cases an early release.

Leicester should have done more to hold Ford in the first place, as they should have done with others too.

Waldrom is one of them.

And Goneva!

beshocked wrote:Still in both cases an early release.

Leicester should have done more to hold Ford in the first place, as they should have done with others too.

Waldrom is one of them.

Cockers didn't want Waldrom nothing to do with doing more to keep him.

Ford whilst I agree I think a lot of that was down to media hype and his dad (and Bath offering the out and out 10 shirt) Flood at the time was playing really well with Tigers and was the obvious starter. Just a shame he fell out with England.

Re Goneva Falcons where offering 100k more than Tigers soooo.

Still think it's foolish even it was Cockerill's fault.

Leicester have been needing a good enough no 8 since Waldrom left.

Perhaps but I still think more could have been done to keep Ford happy as he was from the academy.

I'll be unhappy if Saracens lose Max Malins.

It's important to retain players if you can and reduce the chances of players wanting to leave.

Rotation is generally a much underrated tool to keeping players happy.

Some fans don't seem to believe in it.

Tigers are a strange one, I admire your loyalty to some players but it's hurt your competitiveness.

Wonder how Sarries will fit Faz, Loz and I mean you will rotate but they will be clubs offering the out and out 10 shirt for him.

also interestin to see how much game time Earle will get.

Welly wrote: Wonder how Sarries will fit Faz, Loz and  I mean you will rotate but they will be clubs offering the out and out 10 shirt for him.

also interestin to see how much game time Earle will get.

That's the difficulty. I mean potentially they could be shifted around the backline but that's not a long term solution.

Biggest threat would be Wasps and Quins I'd say. Followed by Sale,Gloucester and Newcastle.

Leicester,Saints,Exeter and Bath look well stocked at 10 with their signings.

Wonder if Williams is seen as a FB or wing by Sarries

Earle is effectively up against Goode for a place in the first choice line up, assuming Maitland and Williams are starters

IMO Quins should try to go all out to lure Malins really.

Personally I still don't think Francis is a 10, I think how he played with Ford at 12 is how Saints should look to use him.

Also would like to see Mallinder get more of a run out at 15 next season.

Lozowski to Quins would be great but won't happen.

We've got Jackson (meh), Sweil who has a lot of promise and is early 20's, and an academy 10 who played a fair few first team games last season. And next season we have Katrakilis coming in from Montpellier too, who'll hopefully add some pragmatism and control, but doesn't exactly cause deep excitement.

Welly wrote:IMO Quins should try to go all out to lure Malins really.

Personally I still don't think Francis is a 10, I think how he played with Ford at 12 is how Saints should look to use him.

Also would like to see Mallinder get more of a run out at 15 next season.

And have one 10 in the squad while we have about a dozen centres? Not sure it would be the smartest move. He's played half the super rugby season at 10.

Just saying I think saints have a dozen 13's and wingers.

And whilst Francis has started half the season at 10 for the blues he hasn't nailed down the shirt despite being against the weakest 10's in NZ.

I've said it before I just don't think Francis is a NH 10.

Surely H.Mallinder might be utilised at 10 too?

Saints seriously need to sign a Picamoles replacement anyway.

beshocked wrote:Surely H.Mallinder might be utilised at 10 too?

Saints seriously need to sign a Picamoles replacement anyway.

He can cover it, but I wouldn't want to play him there long term.

beshocked wrote:Surely H.Mallinder might be utilised at 10 too?

Saints seriously need to sign a Picamoles replacement anyway.

Out of all the position Mallinder can play I would say 10 is his weakest.

I guess the trouble with signing a Picamoles replacement is who is out there that is that good?

I suspect Mallins will be used as the next Goode in the short term covering 15 and 10. Farrell and Lozowski also a 10/12 combination possibly, especially as Bosch and Barritt aren't getting any younger.

Beshocked, Waldrom wasn't that great in the Tigers system. I wasn't fussed when he left and whilst I am impressed with his transformation under Baxter I can't see him being anywhere near as effective if he came back.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/wasps-and-exeter-chiefs-players-top-opta-stats-after-exciting-aviva-premiership-rugby-season/

Perhaps these stats just show how much work Waldrom has put in for Exeter.

He is what he is. Put it in his hands and he will run hard and straight then fall over. Works well for Exeter, doesn't mean it's right for every team.

Top of the carries stats, but probably join bottom in offloads, defenders beaten and clean breaks.

Welly wrote:  Just saying I think saints have a dozen 13's and wingers.

And whilst Francis has started half the season at 10 for the blues he hasn't nailed down the shirt despite being against the weakest 10's in NZ.

I've said it before I just don't think Francis is a NH 10.

The Blues have been without both Perofeta and West for a fair chunk of the season - hence Bryn Gatland getting called into the squad as well. West is a poor man's Carlos Spencer - capable of the odd moment of genius but very inconsistent, while Perofeta is still very green

If Tigers can get Marty Mckenzie, Fekitoa, Mapapalangi and Mafi i think that would put us in an excellent position next season squad wise even with all the potential leavers.

Pretty big IF though.

Fekitoa is a rumour?

BamBam wrote:Fekitoa is a rumour?

Yep.

Welly wrote: If Tigers can get Marty Mckenzie, Fekitoa, Mapapalangi and Mafi i think that would put us in an excellent position next season squad wise even with all the potential leavers.

Pretty big IF though.

Marty Mckenzie would be an ideal signing. Really hoping that one comes to fruition. Mapapalangi will depend on what condition he's in post international break I'd have thought. The other two would be good but I'm not too fussed either way. They're good players (outstanding really) but we have good options in those positions so it's a cherry on top of the cake situation with Mafi and Fekitoa.

beshocked wrote:Perhaps but I still think more could have been done to keep Ford happy as he was from the academy.

I'll be unhappy if Saracens lose Max Malins.

It's important to retain players if you can and reduce the chances of players wanting to leave.

Rotation is generally a much underrated tool to keeping players happy.

I would love to know what Leicester should have done to keep Ford happy.

1) As a teenager (his departure was announced before his 20th birthday) he started 15 premiership matches for Leicester, including a premiership semi and final, and two HC matches. He featured in all but two of Tiger's premiership and HC matches while he was 19.
2) At the start of his last season, and when he discussed the move to join his dad, Toby Flood was Englands starting 10.

As far as I can see, we had two options hire Mike Ford or sack Toby Flood.


At the same stage in his career as Ford was when he decided to leave, Malins has made 4 bench appearances for Sarries in the AP. Ford had 17 starts and 30 bench appearances in AP/HC.

Now because of the gametime we gave him, Ford was actually more advanced in his career than Malins is at the same age, such that a Team was willing to make him guaranteed first choice. Would not happen right now for but if it did could Sarries do any more to keep him than Leicester did with Ford?

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:Perhaps but I still think more could have been done to keep Ford happy as he was from the academy.

I'll be unhappy if Saracens lose Max Malins.

It's important to retain players if you can and reduce the chances of players wanting to leave.

Rotation is generally a much underrated tool to keeping players happy.

I would love to know what Leicester should have done to keep Ford happy.

1) As a teenager (his departure was announced before his 20th birthday) he started 15 premiership matches for Leicester, including a premiership semi and final, and two HC matches. He featured in all but two of Tiger's premiership and HC matches while he was 19.
2) At the start of his last season, and when he discussed the move to join his dad, Toby Flood was Englands starting 10.

As far as I can see, we had two options hire Mike Ford or sack Toby Flood.


At the same stage in his career as Ford was when he decided to leave, Malins has made 4 bench appearances for Sarries in the AP. Ford had 17 starts and 30 bench appearances in AP/HC.

Now because of the gametime we gave him, Ford was actually more advanced in his career than Malins is at the same age, such that a Team was willing to make him guaranteed first choice. Would not happen right now for but if it did could Sarries do any more to keep him than Leicester did with Ford?

Cockers also said Tigers were happy to meet Bath's wage offer but George wanted to go and work with his Dad. Being the starting 10 made him the teams focus which wouldn't have been the case at Tigers.

I'd be surprised if Mallins doesn't have some offers for first team rugby when his contract is up for renewal.

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:Perhaps but I still think more could have been done to keep Ford happy as he was from the academy.

I'll be unhappy if Saracens lose Max Malins.

It's important to retain players if you can and reduce the chances of players wanting to leave.

Rotation is generally a much underrated tool to keeping players happy.

I would love to know what Leicester should have done to keep Ford happy.

1) As a teenager (his departure was announced before his 20th birthday) he started 15 premiership matches for Leicester, including a premiership semi and final, and two HC matches. He featured in all but two of Tiger's premiership and HC matches while he was 19.
2) At the start of his last season, and when he discussed the move to join his dad, Toby Flood was Englands starting 10.

As far as I can see, we had two options hire Mike Ford or sack Toby Flood.


At the same stage in his career as Ford was when he decided to leave, Malins has made 4 bench appearances for Sarries in the AP. Ford had 17 starts and 30 bench appearances in AP/HC.

Now because of the gametime we gave him, Ford was actually more advanced in his career than Malins is at the same age, such that a Team was willing to make him guaranteed first choice. Would not happen right now for but if it did could Sarries do any more to keep him than Leicester did with Ford?

Either of those could have happened.

You lost both of your 10s.

Leicester player retention hasn't been great, no I don't think it's just salary cap.

Not sure what the scenario is in Malins case.

Sometimes players have to be patient. Sometimes they aren't. In Ford's case obviously he didn't know how long Flood was going to last at Tigers.

beshocked wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:Perhaps but I still think more could have been done to keep Ford happy as he was from the academy.

I'll be unhappy if Saracens lose Max Malins.

It's important to retain players if you can and reduce the chances of players wanting to leave.

Rotation is generally a much underrated tool to keeping players happy.

I would love to know what Leicester should have done to keep Ford happy.

1) As a teenager (his departure was announced before his 20th birthday) he started 15 premiership matches for Leicester, including a premiership semi and final, and two HC matches. He featured in all but two of Tiger's premiership and HC matches while he was 19.
2) At the start of his last season, and when he discussed the move to join his dad, Toby Flood was Englands starting 10.

As far as I can see, we had two options hire Mike Ford or sack Toby Flood.


At the same stage in his career as Ford was when he decided to leave, Malins has made 4 bench appearances for Sarries in the AP. Ford had 17 starts and 30 bench appearances in AP/HC.

Now because of the gametime we gave him, Ford was actually more advanced in his career than Malins is at the same age, such that a Team was willing to make him guaranteed first choice. Would not happen right now for but if it did could Sarries do any more to keep him than Leicester did with Ford?

Either of those could have happened.

You lost both of your 10s.

Leicester player retention hasn't been great, no I don't think it's just salary cap.

Not sure what the scenario is in Malins case.

Sometimes players have to be patient. Sometimes they aren't. In Ford's case obviously he didn't know how long Flood was going to last at Tigers.

When Ford left Flood still had a year on his contract and was still in the England fold. He was dropped by Lancaster shortly after and then took his move to France. I don't think it would have necessarily changed George's mind. At that point Bath were spending big bringing together a young and exciting squad overseen by Ford Snr. The move was me tempting than another season challenging for the 10 shirt and then waiting on whether Flood chose to stay or go.

halfpenny to the prem.

Welly wrote: halfpenny to the prem.

really hope it's not bath!

Bathite wrote:

Welly wrote: halfpenny to the prem.

really hope it's not bath!

I thought I had heard talk of a "pre-contract" having been agreed last season for 2018/19. May of course have been dreaming.

Bathite wrote:

Welly wrote: halfpenny to the prem.

really hope it's not bath!

No.

Welly wrote:

Bathite wrote:

Welly wrote: halfpenny to the prem.

really hope it's not bath!

No.

Please not Tigers

Falcons say no thanks.

Hope Leigh doesn't read this forum.

Wasps? They like spending money on backs and leaving teh pack to fester.

Not sure any AP club would want to pay the £750,000 a year he's after.

Not even Wasps.

Wasps like their attacking players. Halfpenny doesn't really fit that criteria.

No-one woudl have described Gopperth as an attacking player, but he did really well.

1/2p is a better attacker than this forum gives him credit for, though I admit that due to team/management constraints it is rarely seen nowadays. If nothing else his reliability with the boot would allow Cipriani to play 10 and Daly and De Jongh to play in the centre.

True but as Gopperth was one of Wasps' most valuable players I am not sure he would be dropped.

Plus with him, you don't really need another goal kicker.

Also I doubt Gopperth is on £750,000 a year.

As you mentioned earlier, Wasps need to invest in the forwards not in the backs.


Though saying that I think if Beale wasn't injured, Wasps would have beaten Exeter.

1/2p would allow Willie le Roux to keep playing wing as well. The current squad only has 3 wingers in it - Wade, Bassett and Marcus Watson.

Although that would once again put Rob Miller second choice. Miller is a very good player in his own right and it does surprise me that he has stayed at Wasps as a back-up.

Wasps did make Halfpenny an offer before the extended with Toulon, didn't they? I imagine the offer is 450K per year.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welly wrote:

Bathite wrote:

Welly wrote: halfpenny to the prem.

really hope it's not bath!

No.

Please not Tigers

Not Leicester

What about Saints with the Picamoles money?

Myler and Foden aren't getting any younger so Saints need a goal kicker and full back.

That's what I fear. But we need invention and pace in our back line. Not that he wouldn't be a good addition but think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Scottrf wrote:That's what I fear. But we need invention and pace in our back line. Not that he wouldn't be a good addition but think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

If you don't need the flyhalf to be a reliable kicker you can perhaps opt for more of a maverick that'll get the backline moving. Halfpenny would give you the security at the back for a more adventurous 10/12 combination.

We've signed more of a maverick so we shall see.

If Halfpenny didn't kick for goal, what would his value be? I imagine not too much....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:If Halfpenny didn't kick for goal, what would his value be? I imagine not too much....

Safe as about any under the high ball, one of the best full backs around positionally, good tactical kicking game, strong tackler.

It seems a long time ago that he was an exciting winger with good footwork and pace to burn. That I'll agree! Sadly a mixture of injuries and conservative game plans seem to have stunted his growth as a running back three player. He is still a solid finisher when given chances though.

He's a much better player than many now give him credit for. His goal kicking isn't something to be dismissed either.

I'd be interested to see how moving back to wing affected his running play, I think it would be a positive move for him.

All that said I think he would need to take a significant pay cut to be a good investment for a Prem side. Especially when he'll be away for international windows.