Silly Season Transfer Rumours 16/17

First topic message reminder :

Gordon Reid is off to Irish.

yappysnap wrote:Sadly I think we're resigned to them just being good club players now. Grey seems to have gone backwards and Buchanan while physical is pants at throwing. Wards becoming more of a 7 now as well

I thought he was a 7 who they moved to hooker.

Fluxy wrote:Fekitoa to Toulon seems like it will be confirmed tomorrow.

Still negotiating over the number of 0s by the looks https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94112136/toulon-poised-to-sign-all-blacks-midfielder-malakai-fekitoa-on-twoyear-deal--report

Interesting time to see him leave. Whilst he has fallen it of favour with the ABs he must back his own ability to force his way back into the squad. There's a RWC in a couple of years and he could cement his place in the team by then and move abroad after. Unless he feels the talent coming through now will overtake him.

Toulon will happily pay bog money for him. It'll be the usual embarrassment of luxury in the Toulon centres next season. I resume neither Nonu or Basteraud are leaving.

Paul Asquith (Aussie 7s), Tom Prydie, Tom Grabham, Rhys Jones (Wales 7s), and Morgan Williams (Wales 7s) all now confirmed for the Scarlets.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Paul Asquith (Aussie 7s), Tom Prydie, Tom Grabham, Rhys Jones (Wales 7s), and Morgan Williams (Wales 7s) all now confirmed for the Scarlets.

Does that help alleviate the worries surrounding the back three?

Quins Reddish sadly retires with concussion, will they get a replacement?

Otere Black & Bryn Gatland sign for the Auckland Blues. And Ihaia West for the Hurricanes

Otere Black & Bryn Gatland sign for the Auckland Blues. And Ihaia West for the Hurricanes

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Otere Black & Bryn Gatland sign for the Auckland Blues. And Ihaia West for the Hurricanes

Good bit of trading up for the Blues. Hurricanes end up with a weaker bench. I wonder how many contracts from abroad Black turned down to sign for the Blues.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Paul Asquith (Aussie 7s), Tom Prydie, Tom Grabham, Rhys Jones (Wales 7s), and Morgan Williams (Wales 7s) all now confirmed for the Scarlets.

Does that help alleviate the worries surrounding the back three?

Prydie is mostly injured these days. The others are Sevens players so won't be any good... apart from Asquith perhaps who has Super Rugby experience - he could be another McNicholl.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Otere Black & Bryn Gatland sign for the Auckland Blues. And Ihaia West for the Hurricanes

Great for Bryn. I don't get why West is moving though. I thought all players were contracted by the same organization. Aside from the top players who earn extra via sponsorship, etc. I didn't think Kiwi's could ear more money by moving to a different team.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Otere Black & Bryn Gatland sign for the Auckland Blues. And Ihaia West for the Hurricanes

Great for Bryn. I don't get why West is moving though. I thought all players were contracted by the same organization. Aside from the top players who earn extra via sponsorship, etc. I didn't think Kiwi's could ear more money by moving to a different team.

West hasn't nailed down the starting spot at the Blues - I suspect its a case of the Blues wanting to try Black (who's stuck behind Barrett at the 'Canes). Plus West is from Hawkes Bay, which is part of the 'Canes' region so they're technically his home team, and its a shorter drive home from Wellington than Auckland

The Blues have struggled at 10 (and generally) since Carlos Spencer left over a decade ago. Black's got a bit of experience with the 'Canes & Maori, & it could be an interesting scrap for a starting berth between him, Bryn & Perofeta

Whenever I've seen Black play I've been very impressed. Seems to have a mature game for such a young player. He should do well at the Blues with their backline.

Given the embarrassment of riches at 10 in NZ it seems odd that the Blues have had so much trouble finding a consistent starter.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Whenever I've seen Black play I've been very impressed. Seems to have a mature game for such a young player. He should do well at the Blues with their backline.

Given the embarrassment of riches at 10 in NZ it seems odd that the Blues have had so much trouble finding a consistent starter.

I know. The Blues are sitting on the world's biggest rugby talent breeding ground in South Auckland, & they simply haven't managed to harness it - the other NZ franchises along with the NRL are picking up the best (or doing a better job of molding the raw talent they're signing)

Dan Carter decided he couldn't sign for Auckland and face his Dad. Colin Slade opted to move to the Highlanders when he wasn't getting gametime in Christchurch. Tyler Bleyendaal gave up on his AB's dream & signed for Munster rather than see if he could turn the Blues around, while Tom Taylor opted for France. Beauden Barrett turned them down flat ...

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Paul Asquith (Aussie 7s), Tom Prydie, Tom Grabham, Rhys Jones (Wales 7s), and Morgan Williams (Wales 7s) all now confirmed for the Scarlets.

Does that help alleviate the worries surrounding the back three?

Prydie is mostly injured these days. The others are Sevens players so won't be any good... apart from Asquith perhaps who has Super Rugby experience - he could be another McNicholl.

Reading between the lines Asquith has been signed with the hopes he can push for a full strengh match day 23 place (hopefully a fit and younger replacement for Gareth Owen). Prydie is a bit more of a punt on the grounds that he had potential. And the others are all squad filler and competition for the under 20s boys coming through.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Whenever I've seen Black play I've been very impressed. Seems to have a mature game for such a young player. He should do well at the Blues with their backline.

Given the embarrassment of riches at 10 in NZ it seems odd that the Blues have had so much trouble finding a consistent starter.

I know. The Blues are sitting on the world's biggest rugby talent breeding ground in South Auckland, & they simply haven't managed to harness it - the other NZ franchises along with the NRL are picking up the best (or doing a better job of molding the raw talent they're signing)

Dan Carter decided he couldn't sign for Auckland and face his Dad. Colin Slade opted to move to the Highlanders when he wasn't getting gametime in Christchurch. Tyler Bleyendaal gave up on his AB's dream & signed for Munster rather than see if he could turn the Blues around, while Tom Taylor opted for France. Beauden Barrett turned them down flat ...

When you look at the ease with which the Crusaders replaced Carter and Slade with a couple of young guns plucked from obscurity. You gave to wonder what the Blues were doing. Gatland seems to have been a good find and Black is quality but how much wasted time before that. As you say they really aren't capitalising on their location.

Tigers confirm the signings of Gareth Owen and Nick Malouf (Australian sevens player)

Is the Cheetahs and the Kings joining the Pro12 a 'transfer' rumour

Not really worthy of a new thread, but BT have all the rights to European rugby from 2018/19

No more split coverage

BamBam wrote:Not really worthy of a new thread, but BT have all the rights to European rugby from 2018/19

No more split coverage

There will be an free to air element too, not sure on the exact details yet though

Any one know if I can get BT in NZ or will I have to stream the Jeff next season?

I only just noticed that Robbie Fruean has signed for Edinburgh. Good signing

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I only just noticed that Robbie Fruean has signed for Edinburgh. Good signing

Yep, sad to see him leave, but he was injured 90% of the time and during the contract renewal process he mentioned that we wants to play sevens for Samoa for the next Olympics, so he will miss chunks of the season to train and participate in events.

I see that Munster have signed loosie Chris Cloete and lock Gerbrandt Grobler.

2 excellent bits of business - both form players and still young.

NZ Herald is calling Malakai Fekitoa to Toulon.

Dylan Hartley isn't going anywhere, despite rumours he was heading to Worcester after his relation with Saints soured. Instead he has re-signed and been named club captain again.

Probably for the best as far as England and Hartley are concerned. Whether it turns out all right for Northampton is another matter.

Saints seem to have forgotten why they took the captaincy away from Hartley in the first place.

Admittedly there aren't exactly many options in the side screaming to be selected but I think with the improvement in Lawes he could have a captaincy candidate.

Hartley should be loyal to Saints, Saints has been very patient with him.

London irish have signed Darren Dawidiuk on a short term deal whilst Faingaa finishes off super rugby and recovers from injury

Gregor Paul in the NZ Herald wrote a strong piece this morning saying that we shouldn't expect Damian McKenzie to be going anywhere.

George Carlin wrote:Gregor Paul in the NZ Herald wrote a strong piece this morning saying that we shouldn't expect Damian McKenzie to be going anywhere.

He only looks at one side of the argument and offers no insight other than his personal views though. If McKenzie had no interest in leaving NZ he'd have posted a tweet confirming his commitment to the All Blacks but he hasn't so he's obviously reviewing the otions open to him. Mr Paul has strong feelings on the matter but his article is blinkered and with Black and Mo'unga around the path to the AB 10 shirt isn't easy nor just about outshining Barrett.

McKenzie will definitely be looking at the options, Sam.

What is weird is that he's one of the best full backs in the world but the ABs see him as a 10 and that is quite a tough peer group. No idea which position he prefers.

George Carlin wrote:What is weird is that he's one of the best full backs in the world but the ABs see him as a 10 and that is quite a tough peer group. No idea which position he prefers.

Yeah better than Stuart Hogg, but not as good as Liam Williams .

George Carlin wrote:McKenzie will definitely be looking at the options, Sam.

What is weird is that he's one of the best full backs in the world but the ABs see him as a 10 and that is quite a tough peer group. No idea which position he prefers.

The problem McKenzie will always find at fullback is his height. He's a midget, like George Ford size. Sure he's more physical than you'd expect for his size but against an astute kicker who'll hang the kicks over him so he can't come on to the ball but will give his chasers time to he'll lose out and be targeted. If you compare that to Jordie Barrett who is six foot four and a big lad, he's far harder to target with a high ball because of his size. At ten size doesn't matter as much and he is a creative player who can easily exploit gaps on defence, Cipriani was exceptional at 15 in his younger days before moving up to 10.

If he comes to Tigers he'll be a 15 and secondary playmaker like he has been for the Chiefs.

If he's staying in NZ I expect a comment from him very soon.

Nothing wrong with a secondary playmaker and clearly Ford would appreciate it. Also someone to take goal kicking duties too.

Leicester still need reinforcements in that pack to challenge for silverware IMO.

Has to surely be a big name forward signing up the Tigers sleeves?

Don't use the salary cap excuse - no Ayerza you have money to spend.

beshocked wrote:Nothing wrong with a secondary playmaker and clearly Ford would appreciate it. Also someone to take goal kicking duties too.

Leicester still need reinforcements in that pack to challenge for silverware IMO.

Has to surely be a big name forward signing up the Tigers sleeves?

Don't use the salary cap excuse - no Ayerza you have money to spend.

Is this the first summer that Leicester haven't signed a falcons player?

beshocked wrote:Nothing wrong with a secondary playmaker and clearly Ford would appreciate it. Also someone to take goal kicking duties too.

Leicester still need reinforcements in that pack to challenge for silverware IMO.

Has to surely be a big name forward signing up the Tigers sleeves?

Don't use the salary cap excuse - no Ayerza you have money to spend.

The pack has been reinforced well.

Loosehead we have two internationals in Genge and Rizzo, tighthead we have two internationals in Cole and Cilliers woth Bateman able to play across the front row and Mulipola to prop ether side. Hooker is Youngs, Thacker and McGuigan so solid options there.

Second row Barrow and Slater are mobile, big and horrible with Kitch a very good lineout technician as well as being a big mobile lump himself. Fitzgerald is there to cover with Wells.

Backrow we have Ryan and Williams for aggression on the blindside, BOC leader of turnovers in the AP last year at 7 with Evans and Thacker as capable understudies. 8 was the problem last year, we've still got the workhorse Hamilton and then two 19 stone Tongan internationals.

There's rumours of Arno botha joining as well. The pack is looking a lot more physical. We're a little short in the backs.

beshocked wrote:Nothing wrong with a secondary playmaker and clearly Ford would appreciate it. Also someone to take goal kicking duties too.

Leicester still need reinforcements in that pack to challenge for silverware IMO.

Has to surely be a big name forward signing up the Tigers sleeves?

Don't use the salary cap excuse - no Ayerza you have money to spend.

I'm not sure much of Ayerza's cap remains - it was used to tie down Ellis Genge on a long term deal. The forwards at Tigers aren't that far off AP winning standard - they basically handed the semi final on a platter to the backs but because of a disgusting lack of penetration they weren't able to take advantage. The main area of concern has been the backrow, but that at least looks considerably stronger next season so we hopefully won't have to see Fitzgerald at 6 ever again.

An international quality FB to allow Veainu to take up JPP's vacated wing spot and I'm confident this team can make the final and get smashed by Saracens.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:Nothing wrong with a secondary playmaker and clearly Ford would appreciate it. Also someone to take goal kicking duties too.

Leicester still need reinforcements in that pack to challenge for silverware IMO.

Has to surely be a big name forward signing up the Tigers sleeves?

Don't use the salary cap excuse - no Ayerza you have money to spend.

I'm not sure much of Ayerza's cap remains - it was used to tie down Ellis Genge on a long term deal. The forwards at Tigers aren't that far off AP winning standard - they basically handed the semi final on a platter to the backs but because of a disgusting lack of penetration they weren't able to take advantage. The main area of concern has been the backrow, but that at least looks considerably stronger next season so we hopefully won't have to see Fitzgerald at 6 ever again.

An international quality FB to allow Veainu to take up JPP's vacated wing spot and I'm confident this team can make the final and get smashed by Saracens the Falcons.

Fixed that for you...

Fuzzy Dunlop Leicester were very competitive vs Wasps in the playoff semis but a distant 4th in the season as a whole.

Personally I am not sure how the gap will be closed. Get into the playoffs and yes every team has a chance but where do you see the real difference being made?

Sam sure it's a pack that should challenge top 4 again but where do you see the real improvement?

Personally I think your 2nd rowers have flattered to deceive, I know you Tigers rate them highly but they haven't made the step up in class yet. Barrow perhaps has the most potential though.

T.Youngs has been a good servant of Tigers but I still see him as a bit lightweight. Not a big fan of Mcguigan myself.

Genge I think has a lot of promise but don't feel Cole is back to his best yet.

Backrow has some promise but I think it lacks a bit of firepower compared to some of the other backrows in the league.


I also feel that Bath will be a bigger challenge next season which might cause problems for all the top 4.

beshocked wrote:Fuzzy Dunlop Leicester were very competitive vs Wasps in the playoff semis but a distant 4th in the season as a whole.

Personally I am not sure how the gap will be closed. Get into the playoffs and yes every team has a chance but where do you see the real difference being made?

Sam sure it's a pack that should challenge top 4 again but where do you see the real improvement?

Personally I think your 2nd rowers have flattered to deceive, I know you Tigers rate them highly but they haven't made the step up in class yet. Barrow perhaps has the most potential though.

T.Youngs has been a good servant of Tigers but I still see him as a bit lightweight. Not a big fan of Mcguigan myself.

Genge I think has a lot of promise but don't feel Cole is back to his best yet.

Backrow has some promise but I think it lacks a bit of firepower compared to some of the other backrows in the league.


I also feel that Bath will be a bigger challenge next season which might cause problems for all the top 4.

Last season we were in turmoil and still got to the playoffs. Kitch and Slater had stints injured but both for will make a significant difference. You might not rate them but previous performances show they are more than capable of playing at the top club level. If it wasn't for injuries Slater would have had multiple England caps.

You talk about firepower in the backrow but ignore the fact we've just signed two 19 stone Tongan internationals. They'll provide some hard carrying. Given what is available on the market we've done alright. The change in game plan next season will undoubtedly see us be more direct and not just in the pick and go ad infinitum style we saw last season. The substantially bigger backrow running off the shoulders of Ford flat to the line should hopefully pay dividends.

I'm far more concerned about our reliance on injury prone centres Manu, Smith (ongoing back problem) and Tait with minimal experienced back up. 

GF there's still time for us to sign a Falcon. Not sure we need what you've got at present though.

beshocked wrote:Fuzzy Dunlop Leicester were very competitive vs Wasps in the playoff semis but a distant 4th in the season as a whole.

Personally I am not sure how the gap will be closed. Get into the playoffs and yes every team has a chance but where do you see the real difference being made?

Sam sure it's a pack that should challenge top 4 again but where do you see the real improvement?

Personally I think your 2nd rowers have flattered to deceive, I know you Tigers rate them highly but they haven't made the step up in class yet. Barrow perhaps has the most potential though.

T.Youngs has been a good servant of Tigers but I still see him as a bit lightweight. Not a big fan of Mcguigan myself.

Genge I think has a lot of promise but don't feel Cole is back to his best yet.

Backrow has some promise but I think it lacks a bit of firepower compared to some of the other backrows in the league.

Added physicality to the back row in Ryan and Kalamafoni. Mapapalangi is a promising project signing in the back row too. Hopefully Will Evans can get a full season fit and continue showing his promise as he physically matures too.

Mulipola returning will be a big boost, not just for his carrying and extra depth for rotation. At full strength he should allow earlier subs in the front row. In big games this season there was very much a feeling of Genge and Cole clinging on as late as possible regardless of fatigue effecting their performance.

The pack is definitely a top 8 short of being as imposing as the best European clubs. Bottom line is that there are very few 'marquee 8s' around though. Picamoles at Saints showed how much one can add but also how expensive they are to sign and how difficult they are to keep.

The hopes of MOC will likely be built on set-piece dominance denying top opposition the platform their back row stars need to shine. Whether Tigers scrum and line-out can get back to there with consistency is another question.

I understand the view you're taking with our second rows. Kitchener especially hasn't taken his potential to a higher level and Slater's progress has been culled by injury. I'd still take 4.Barrow 5.Kitchener/Slater over any Prem second row bar Sarries though. Given Itoje and Kruis are the nearest lock pairing to Retallick and Whitelock I'll happily take being able to say that about our options in the boiler room.

Theres some serious quality lock stables out there at the moment. Ours is still developing, but I'm very happy with it aswell. Not many teams locks I would swap ours for.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Theres some serious quality lock stables out there at the moment. Ours is still developing, but I'm very happy with it aswell. Not many teams locks I would swap ours for.

Yeah we might swing by in a couple of years time and make a bid or two. Just not at the minute. Nice to see our Northern academy is still producing.

ha ha I think that route is drying up quite quickly now

beshocked wrote:Fuzzy Dunlop Leicester were very competitive vs Wasps in the playoff semis but a distant 4th in the season as a whole.

Personally I am not sure how the gap will be closed. Get into the playoffs and yes every team has a chance but where do you see the real difference being made?

Sam sure it's a pack that should challenge top 4 again but where do you see the real improvement?

Personally I think your 2nd rowers have flattered to deceive, I know you Tigers rate them highly but they haven't made the step up in class yet. Barrow perhaps has the most potential though.

T.Youngs has been a good servant of Tigers but I still see him as a bit lightweight. Not a big fan of Mcguigan myself.

Genge I think has a lot of promise but don't feel Cole is back to his best yet.

Backrow has some promise but I think it lacks a bit of firepower compared to some of the other backrows in the league.


I also feel that Bath will be a bigger challenge next season which might cause problems for all the top 4.

I think MOC has a much better grasps on the prem than Mauger and with it just being the one voice instead of the 2 it should be alot easier.
looking at the stats when Tigers gave Brett Deacon the defence coach for the second half of the season we finished with he second best defence in that half.

I think too much has been made on the players and not the coaches who IMO where rightly shown the door (esp Mauger whose forwards game plan did not suit Prem rugby at all not in the slightest).  Now we have 1 Head coach who has prem experience already (and did well with us) and a month of prem competitive rugby before this season.

Fekitoa to Toulon is official

Agree on the coaches Welly. Mauger spent too long trying to develop the Crusaders side to side game which we didn't have the players for and which the Crusaders have now abandoned.  By the time he decided to change tactics it was a bit late and everything just didn't click. Brett Deacon did a good job on defence but he isn't taking control of that going forward it's O'Connor who is also taking charge of attack. Hopefully the young coaches will be given the LV to develop still.

Fekitoa takes the cash and the sunshine in Toulon. Will he be the last young AB to head North?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Agree on the coaches Welly. Mauger spent too long trying to develop the Crusaders side to side game which we didn't have the players for and which the Crusaders have now abandoned.  By the time he decided to change tactics it was a bit late and everything just didn't click. Brett Deacon did a good job on defence but he isn't taking control of that going forward it's O'Connor who is also taking charge of attack. Hopefully the young coaches will be given the LV to develop still.

Fekitoa takes the cash and the sunshine in Toulon. Will he be the last young AB to head North?

Deacon and MOC relationship will be the same as when MOC took over, Deacs will help with defence but he will take on more of a back room role with the academy aswell.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Agree on the coaches Welly. Mauger spent too long trying to develop the Crusaders side to side game which we didn't have the players for and which the Crusaders have now abandoned.  By the time he decided to change tactics it was a bit late and everything just didn't click. Brett Deacon did a good job on defence but he isn't taking control of that going forward it's O'Connor who is also taking charge of attack. Hopefully the young coaches will be given the LV to develop still.

Fekitoa takes the cash and the sunshine in Toulon. Will he be the last young AB to head North?

Deacon and MOC relationship will be the same as when MOC took over, Deacs will help with defence but he will take on more of a back room role with the academy aswell.

Deacon had a very definite involvement with the first team last season. The blurb on website seemed to indicate he'd be taking more of a back seat with the first team and be more hands on with the academy. Hopefully we'll see him heavily involved with the A league and LV teams. I like him as a coach and the Tigers set up seem to as well, I think he could end up taking the top job some time in the future.