26th Feb 2017 Twickenham -RIP Italian Rugby

A date that will be remembered as the day Italian rugby died.

Never have I witnessed such a farce allowed to play out at HQ.

Our game has been damaged today as how can we sell that to a wider audience?

If I was an Italian and my son said he wanted to take up rugby union with the dream of representing his Country I'd March them to the nearest football club and sign them up.

Don't be ridiculous. They had a tactic that worked for 40 minutes untill someone with half a brain told a bunch of professional rugby players how to negate it. The fact a bunch of pro's had to be told how to combat it is a damming indictment of pro rugby. Dayglow, Wilco and Woodward were all making their excuses for the team but quite frankly I would have seen how to beat that tactic after a couple of phases.

If you are tackled and it's not a ruck, let go of the ball, get up and play the damn thing.

England's meat head forwards in my opinion have been more damaged than Italy for their use of a ballsy tactic. The fact that it went on for 40 minutes suggests they should spend a bit of time with a rule book and less time in the gym.

I think the Italians should be praised for exposing how stupid the English team can be. Any half decent team would have exploited the huge gap created in front of the ruck area. How stupid is it that the players couldn't respond until Eddie Jones spoke to them at half-time? They just moaned.

The ref was made to look a fool on more than one occasion too, as he was too busy policing a ridiculous rule, eg blowing the whistle and going to the TMO before the ball was even touched down.

Is this a new country - Itailia? - Is it anywhere near Australia?

TightHEAD wrote:The ref was made to look a fool on more than one occasion too, as he was too busy policing a ridicous rule, eg blowing the whistle and going to the TMO before the ball was even touched down.

You have to play the ref as well as the opposition. You think Richie McCaw will go down in history as the best ever all black by playing just the game? No he played the ref too.

Italy did that to an extent today. All it would have taken was Haskell, Cole or Lawes to pick that ball up and rampage through the middle and Italy would have been in big trouble. The fact no English forward picked up on that would be alarming from an English point of view.

Viva Italiaiata!!!!

Tight give over please. The Italians used the Laws and the Ref applied them.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:The ref was made to look a fool on more than one occasion too, as he was too busy policing a ridicous rule, eg blowing the whistle and going to the TMO before the ball was even touched down.

You have to play the ref as well as the opposition. You think Richie McCaw will go down in history as the best ever all black by playing just the game? No he played the ref too.

Italy did that to an extent today. All it would have taken was Haskell, Cole or Lawes to pick that ball up and rampage through the middle and Italy would have been in big trouble. The fact no English forward picked up on that would be alarming from an English point of view.

Exactly. They would have made a lot of ground and forced Italy to commit numbers to the ruck in order to slow things down. It really is that simple. It was embarrassing that England didn't adapt.

They did. And won comfortably.

I am bemused by these failure to adapt comments when it turned into a very comfortable victory.

England didn't look too comfortable out there to me. It was highly unlikely that Italy were going to win that game, but they certainly gave them a fright. The whinging that has ensued afterwards is rather amusing.

So it wasn't even a possible successful tactic in your thoughts. Why bother adapting at all then?

?

No 7&1/2 wrote:They did.  And won comfortably.

They did adapt. And they were always going to finally adapt. And most commentators knew they'd finally work it out.

So what is Tight's problem? Melodrama. What was Eddie's problem? Melodrama.

It's the reaction to the Italian tactic (legal and not the first to use it) that people are...well... reacting to. Eddie should have put the thumb up to O'Shea.

Alternatively this is the day that the country began the slow climb back.

I havent hidden I didn't like the tactics at all. But I did say fair play for doing it.
What I liked far more was Conor O'Sheas interview. He stressed several times that whilst its a huge project...he will not settle for turning up anymore and is out to win games any means possible.

That single attitude will drive Italy on no end. They have some good players and with Brendan Venter in there a tremendous coach who helped build the Saracens model.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So it wasn't even a possible successful tactic in your thoughts. Why bother adapting at all then?

To keep them in a game that they might have been absolutely crucified in? You think Italy and O'Shea doesn't have a concept of pride and a determination not to be humiliated if at all possible? Why do people seem to suggest that Italy should have allowed England to play and score freely? That's not rugby. You want to impede the opposition.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Alternatively this is the day that the country began the slow climb back.

I havent hidden I didn't like the tactics at all. But I did say fair play for doing it.
What I liked far more was Conor O'Sheas interview. He stressed several times that whilst its a huge project...he will not settle for turning up anymore and is out to win games any means possible.

That single attitude will drive Italy on no end. They have some good players and with Brendan Venter in there a tremendous coach who helped build the Saracens model.

I don't fly. It was in response to rory but he seems to want it both ways. It's a really unusual tactic snx England were slow to adapt.

Campanaro in particular is an outstanding centre.

Ridiculous thread! Complaining about playing rugby.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't fly.  It was in response to rory but he seems to want it both ways. It's a really unusual tactic snx England were slow to adapt.

No idea what I want both ways, but that last bit is basically what I have been saying. England were so poor to adapt and were pushed to the very last quarter because of it. Italy almost always seem to implode in the last quarter.

It is embarrassing when the likes of Eddie Jones complains that it wasn't rugby, however. It was very clever and very stupid that England failed to adapt for the majority of the game.

You said it was embarrassing that England didn't adapt and that it was highly unlikely to gain a victory. Well no, they were going to win if England didn't adapt which they did yo gain a bonus point victory dnx dfnyva bonus loss. Which part of Jones and indeed POC didn't you agree with exactly?

Best meme so far
Sorry guys - try copying and pasting the link into the address bar - has been modified as a security precaution
https://twitter.com/GavinCurnow/status/835881586151329794/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Seems to work now

That ain't working for me rouge.

Fixed it - initially the address was modifed as ? anti phishing precaution

got it

And send a copy to Poite too who was afraid of the question as to why it was legal

No 7&1/2 wrote:You said it was embarrassing that England didn't adapt and that it was highly unlikely to gain a victory.  Well no, they were going to win if England didn't adapt which they did yo gain a bonus point victory dnx dfnyva bonus loss. Which part of Jones and indeed POC didn't you agree with exactly?

When did I say it was highly unlikely to gain a victory? Whatever that means. I said that England were pushed hard by the same Italy team that was expected to be smashed. They were rattled and struggled to adapt to Italy's tactics. Instead of complaining, England should have just carried the ball through the middle. The few times that they did, they made a lot of ground. It was still England against Italy, so nobody expected Italy to win in the end. It was entertaining, though.

As for Jones...the part where he said it wasn't rugby?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Campanaro in particular is an outstanding centre.

He's very good, but with 3 England defenders right there on him and brown a little further on he should NEVER have scored that try.

I expected Italy to lose by 90-100 points today, judging by what I saw of Italy against Wales and Ireland. If you had offered Italy that score line before the game they would of bitten your hand off.

I do think the referee was fussy and poor. I also think that Georgia would of lost by more so we can possibly put that one to bed for now.

Just scroll up rory it's your comment on this page. They adapted well.

You disagree about having a proper offside line foe entertainment? I'd say after that game an offside lind leads to far more rugby myself but fair enough.

I have no idea what you're talking about, to be honest, but sure.

I don't think you understand how the offside line works in rugby.

Well you said it rory. And I'm aware of the offside rule. Much more than many of the players it appears. So which was it on reflection for you? Did England not adapt to the tactics ? They were losing at half time, we're Italy never going to win it? Or did England change their own tactics at half time and run out comfortable winners. You can be hk eat now and save some face.

You aren't explaining what I apparently said. In answer to your question, what I did clearly say above, was the following:

"How stupid is it that the players couldn't respond until Eddie Jones spoke to them at half-time?"

Look, I've seen you twist other poster's comments before and an endless cycle ensue. You can have the last word.

I've been pretty clear. I don't twist words simply point out gaps in logic. You said it was embarrassing England didn't adapt. They did and won comfortably. You also said Italy were never going to win...so presumably you felt that Italy messed yp their own tactic rather than England change their own.

Though on reflection your earlier post which I've just seen suggests you're only talking on the first half on those quotes so...

80 minute game England scored 6 tries and had a comfortable win overall. Its the 80 minutes thing that counts - something Wales struggled with a couple of weeks ago too.

The tactic itself was interesting, but England's reaction to it was far more interesting. I didn't expect that at all.

The reaction of some fans is decent entertainment

Why are you lot replying to TH, his head is going to be explode if he keeps this up.

nathan wrote:Why are you lot replying to TH, his head is going to be explode if he keeps this up.

Ah-ha! You've uncovered our cunning plan!

talk of italy's tactics is a sideshow. england won. still 100% vs italy. glad italy did this tbh as its something i've seen ireland and Aus do around the lineout / rolling maul so england will now prepare for everything in the next two games.

which i dont expect them to win boh but dearly hope they do.

em.............. tactics a sideshow............................eh so..............................

*checking my watch*......................... so that's a wrap then folks. Everyone go home and get some sleep. It's going to be a long two weeks of no-tactics talk but sure we can entertain ourselves throwing rotten eggs at Rory.

no fly. tactics arent a sideshow. italy's tactics are a sideshow.

see what i did there?

We're all happy now. I like that.

looking forward to the big decider in ireland. even if england lose against scotland (very possible on this weekends showings), everything will be decided at the Aviva. although it might be a 3-way cliffhanger.

re - Italian flimflammery - big calls to replace them with Georgia - so the decide they can't compete via normal methods but use smoke and mirrors to keep score down - what next when they go head to head in 6N - get lost on the way to the stadium?

why not play vanilla rugby?

Can they not compete?

Should they be in 6N?

Anyone thinking this is the death of Italian rugby has clearly forgotten Bergamasco at 9. At least this worked for a while - even if a smarter team would have punished them for it much earlier in the game.

Yes, they should be in the 6N.  Anyone who don't want Italians roving through their cities are absolute idiots.

Maybe Italy should look for refugee status to get the sympathy vote?

Code:

Yes, they should be in the 6N.  Anyone who don't want Italians roving through their cities are absolute idiots

Correct

Too much Speckled Hen

Was leaning back reaching for the port and cigars expecting a demolition, obviously didn't read the small print.

Bit peeved.

but...

Stupid OP - they were playing within the rules

As to a comfortable victory - England were embarrassed today.
Only 17-15 fairly close to the end - The Italians just run out of puff and that decided it.
If their line out had been ok it could have been very interesting, also the sub props were poor.
That guy at Leicester is useless