26th Feb 2017 Twickenham -RIP Italian Rugby

First topic message reminder :

A date that will be remembered as the day Italian rugby died.

Never have I witnessed such a farce allowed to play out at HQ.

Our game has been damaged today as how can we sell that to a wider audience?

If I was an Italian and my son said he wanted to take up rugby union with the dream of representing his Country I'd March them to the nearest football club and sign them up.

Scottrf wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Fans of a team who lost to Scotland taunting us for taking longer than expected to get a bonus point win. Yeah okay.

England have to play Scotland yet  

And I think it will be a tough game.

I think it will. Scotland have the momentum. England are a very good side, but they haven't really fired this 6N's. They could well do against Scotland, and Ireland. Obviously hope they don't

SecretFly wrote:

TrailApe wrote:


I'd love to seen what the Irish lads would have done if O'Shea  pulled this phekwittery on them.

Hasn't it already been exposed on one of these threads that the Irish were in on it?  Sure we gave O'Shea the ideas - we're the cheat specialists of the 6N.  

Australia already tried it sucessfully on Ireland in November.

It should be open season on England for the next few games.
The Italians played to the letter of the law - It was a change in tactics and it caught England on the hop...the disappointment for a lot of people as mentioned above was the lack of vision on how to deal with the change in tactics.
Scotland and Ireland should now be thinking about major tactic changes mid match and test the England responsiveness again.

I will agree with many that it was not as enjoyable match as I was expecting from traditional play - but unless the rules are changed then they are there to be played within. Referee's interpretation will also play a part.

As others have also said, it took me a short while to postulate the way to combat the non ruck rucks......it was disappointing to see the England players not react as quickly. Test match pressure does do funny things though!

Space around the rucks could have been exploited so much more effectively - and a high tempo game getting the ball out as quickly as possible from the tackle area and all of a sudden there are gaps elsewhere for England to exploit.

I think Ireland will play a similar game that they played against England two years ago. A lot of box kicks and most England's overweight forwards around until they go red in the face. Italy used Garryowens to great effect on Saturday.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Australia already tried it sucessfully on Ireland in November.

Massive difference between one flanker getting an interception as he realised the was no ruck than a whole team planning to not create rucks and standing accordingly. While Ireland failed to spot the aussie, surely they would have reacted quicker to a planned operation as we saw yesterday.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Australia already tried it sucessfully on Ireland in November.

Massive difference between one flanker getting an interception as he realised the was no ruck than a whole team planning to not create rucks and standing accordingly. While Ireland failed to spot the aussie, surely they would have reacted quicker to a planned operation as we saw yesterday.

I'm pretty sure Australia tried it twice. it worked the first time but not the second time.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think Ireland will play a similar game that they played against England two years ago.

You mention that game more often than SCW brings up 2003

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think Ireland will play a similar game that they played against England two years ago.

You mention that game more often than SCW brings up 2003

I doubt that, he has had a 10 year head start.

TightHEAD wrote:A date that will be remembered as the day Italian rugby died.

Never have I witnessed such a farce allowed to play out at HQ.

Our game has been damaged today as how can we sell that to a wider audience?

If I was an Italian and my son said he wanted to take up rugby union with the dream of representing his Country I'd March them to the nearest football club and sign them up.

And I say it was dashed unsporting for that Italian kicker chappie with the Scottish name to kick the ball against the post to score a try against our chaps. Down with this sort of thing.

Tricky one to call, in some ways I'm thinking well played and England didn't have the nouse to deal with the situation for the first half. The other side thinks it will kill the game if adopted wholesale... I mean if a team is 2 down with 1 min on the clock and looking for a DG then do people think it will still be possible?
It has the potential to ruin the game as a spectacle and that does count. A few seasons ago it was even worse... I recall it happening in a stormers match and the players literally stood 1ft away from the 9 waiting for a pick up. Technically they were within their rights until they tweaked the law.

Two thoughts mind... I think using it against England was wrong as they should have used it against France or Scotland.. more likely to get a victory. In many ways I think it was a wasted ace up the sleeve as all teams will be training for it this week. Also I don't think the other home nations teams will be as willing to back their continual inclusion in the 6N if they use such tactics.

Utter garbage - it is easily counted you just need to have the brains to work out how

Some people are certainly getting excited by a clever ruse that is no big deal and has limited application

Ref OP the farce was England's inability to adapt to a well known and legal tactic.

it would seem that Poite had given Italy some feedback on it. Yet in the match he told England he wasn't there coach.

also I though both teams were at the refs meetings?

"Coach Conor O'Shea had run the tactic past referee Romain Poite on Saturday, and not only been given the all-clear but a little bit of advice too: to be within the spirit of the laws as well as the wording, do not get within a metre of the nine."

nathan wrote:it would seem that Poite had given Italy some feedback on it. Yet in the match he told England he wasn't there coach.

also I though both teams were at the refs meetings?

Poite was just backslap[ping Haskell for being a gobshite. Refs educate players all the time on the laws and when they have broken them by giving penalties.

For those still confused by the whole thing, this is an excellent analysis:

http://www.the42.ie/italy-tackle-only-england-france-ireland-owens-3261610-Feb2017/

This isn't remotely new.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:For those still confused by the whole thing, this is an excellent analysis:

http://www.the42.ie/italy-tackle-only-england-france-ireland-owens-3261610-Feb2017/

This isn't remotely new.

Its not new?!!!!

marty2086 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You have your quotes the wrong way round there marty. We're you genuinely surprised at 80 min to see that score? England blew them away in the 2nd half.

No that wasn't me check again

They didn't blow them away in the second half though they did it in the last few mins

I thought the last few mins were in the 2nd half?

Heaf wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You have your quotes the wrong way round there marty. We're you genuinely surprised at 80 min to see that score? England blew them away in the 2nd half.

No that wasn't me check again

They didn't blow them away in the second half though they did it in the last few mins

I thought the last few mins were in the 2nd half?

Yes, but the second half isn't the last few minutes.

Nevermind me. This site is doing things to people recently. It's a parallel universe we've broken into. How to get back to our own should be the big talking point.

propdavid_london wrote:I it took me a short while to postulate the way to combat the non ruck rucks  

David, please leave the front row union immediately. A prop using "postulate" and, worse still, correctly This post is like Blackadder when he is winding Dr Johnstone up about his new dictionary.