The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

[No9]

First topic message reminder :

1) Hartley - Not a chance. Playing like a Muppet, being sub'd each game, because he's not up to it. As it stands, unlikely to go on the tour, never the less be Capt.

2) Alun Wyn - Blown it. Was the first choice (IMO). Set up for him, with Warbs standing down as Welsh Capt, but AWJ loathing of being interviewed and the appalling Welsh team performance has ruined his chance of Lions Capt. The nail in the coffin being his comment this week, that he wanted to kick the penalties but Biggar and Halfpenny didn't want to..... WTF... WHO'S CAPT!!!

3) Laidlaw - Not sure of a starting place as Lions 9, and with injuries, will he be ready for the tour.


which, IMO has pushes Rory Best into the pole position for Lions Capt. With the exception of Brown, he's been the on form hooker this 6 Nations, and as Gats has already stated he would like the Lions capt to also captain his country, Best is now the first choice.

... But Warbs is a good outsider, has he's been there, works well with Gats and has the professional attitude needed. He handles the media well and is starting to show return in his form.

Thoughts...

[beshocked]

Sgt Poorly don't know why you are mentioning me. As for picking and choosing that's exactly what you are doing now.

Hughes making more metres than Tipuric doesn't mean he performed better. Hughes was used frequently as a ball carrier and got smashed, noticeably by Moriarty.

Hughes deserves credit for effort but wasn't making enough of an impact. Being better than vs France and Italy doesn't mean he was particularly good. 6/10 is probably a fair rating vs Wales.

I was being ironic BS, completely lost on you yet again. I know you're not the brightest button but It's spelt POOLY

It sometime feels like I'm debating with a 5 year old.......poorly.....jesus man.

If you are going to not say my name why should I use yours Poorly?

You and your pet imp, Bambam are the ones who regularly troll me, not the other way round.

[Sgt_Pooly]

BS is short for BeShocked.....obviously. What's Poorly short for?

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think England have been better against the SH sides than they have in the 6N

I think Ireland have been lacking consistency. They have had some very good and some poor performances in the last year.

This is very true.

[SecretFly]

Our good performances are always hampered by the fact that they all could be better (non-utilising of that space again) - continuing majoro problemo for Ireland.

[Poorfour]

I think England have been better against the SH sides than they have in the 6N

I think Ireland have been lacking consistency. They have had some very good and some poor performances in the last year.

This is very true.

I agree, but it takes two sides to make a match. England's NH opponents do seem to raise their game for the 6N game against them - "As long as we beat the English" has more than a grain of truth to it. The form sides each year are out to win the Grand Slam, tournament or Triple Crown. For those who aren't in the running, a white scalp is a fine consolation.

Whereas their SH opponents see them as just another NH team to beat. That might change if England consolidate their position in the top 2 of the rankings, but I think for the last decade or so England haven't been distinct enough in performance to stand out to the SH.

[SecretFly]

Jaysus, this 'Yis all play better against us' thing drags on.

England are on the target list because they are usually there or thereabouts in the Championship. That they wear white is much of a muchness.  The French blues need to down the Whites to have a good chance.  The Welsh reds need to down the Whites for the same reason.  The Irish greens and Scottish navy - for the same reason.

It's a nice idea "as long as we beat the English" but these sides ain't dumb either - beating the English is usually a substantial part of the journey to the title.  

Pragmatism - England are usually good enough to HAVE to play that bit better against to get the wins.

[Scottrf]

Superfly talks sense! Would rather be in a position where teams feel they have to raise their game tbh.

[bedfordwelsh]

Not read through all the posts so apologies if this been said.

There are some thoughts saying that Warburton lost Welsh captaincy to AWJ so Gatland could pick AWJ as Lions captain.

On the flip side what if Gatland wanted Warburton to lose it so he could get his game (as he has) back to its best and then Gatland can then justify picking Warburton as skipper for Lions.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Warburton is a bit like Best in terms of how he leads a team - both men of good character who lead from the front on the pitch. However, they lack that real dogged aggression that I like to see in a captain. My outside pick for captain would be Peter O'Mahony but I understand that his ship has potentially sailed.

He made a big difference coming on to play against Wales. He ticks all the boxes in terms of what you are looking for from a blindside flanker.

[lostinwales]

I know people make the same arguments about Hartley but I wouldn't pick Best. I don't think his core skills are exceptional and I don't think his leadership is enough.

[Gwlad]

Warburton or AWJ.

[Rugbyjk]

Hartley then?

[Sgt_Pooly]

Best's darts come back each week to haunt him, he's just not good enough.

[Gwlad]

Ugh perhaps. Whats most interesting is how Ireland and Scots have played themselves out of contention from being strongly favored at the beginning of th tournament, contrarily Wales firmly back in again. Right now we know that most likely England will provide perhaps even the bulk of tourists, followed by Wales with Ireland behind and sadly only a very few Scots because todays performance v England showed them up for where they truly are at.

[RuggerRadge2611]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

[majesticimperialman]

It as to be Hartley. right.

How can you select AWJ or Warburton over Hartley? When Hartley as captained England to 2 6ns Championship in 2 years. Neither AWJ or Warburton have done that. Have they?.

[Scottrf]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

Wouldn't pay much notice.

Scotland have had a good 6N. Today wasn't good, but it was away vs a very good team who were fired up from the start with a few bad injuries.

Scotland will still finish above Wales. Unfortunately people and teams are only remembered for one game on here.

[RuggerRadge2611]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

Wouldn't pay much notice.

Scotland have had a good 6N. Today wasn't good, but it was away vs a very good team who were fired up from the start with a few bad injuries.

Scotland will still finish above Wales. Unfortunately people and teams are only remembered for one game on here.

England were tremendous today absolutely lethal in the midfield and powerful upfront. England will form the bulk of the lions team. Today for the first time they showed how strong they can be.

[Rugbyjk]

RuggerRadge2611, thanks.

[Sgt_Pooly]

I've heard Barclay getting touted as an outside Lions captain after a few good outings this 6N, this has been shown to be quite wide of the mark today. He lacks physicality and is a long way from being a tourist imo.

Warbs, Haryley and AWJ continue to be the front runners.

[Rugbyjk]

Why wasn't gatland there today? Or did he pick his squad last night?

[Gwlad]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

It wasn't injuries, it was the complete absence of defense. England scored 3 or 4 tries, for fun off first phase outside the 22, against a defense that was frankly the equivalent of a bad school side. Thats where your at. You can either accept it or delude yourselves.

[RuggerRadge2611]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

It wasn't injuries, it was the complete absence of defense. England scored 3 or 4 tries, for fun off first phase outside the 22, against a defense that was frankly the equivalent of a bad school side. Thats where your at. You can either accept it or delude yourselves.

That still beat Wales...

[Gwlad]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

It wasn't injuries, it was the complete absence of defense. England scored 3 or 4 tries, for fun off first phase outside the 22, against a defense that was frankly the equivalent of a bad school side. Thats where your at. You can either accept it or delude yourselves.

That still beat Wales...

So what?

This was Scotland's moment, everyone knew it. Chance to prove that this wasn't another blip and that there was some substance but from the first minute Scots showed they are unable to even defend off first phase, it was like watching men v boys. Had you put up even a semblance of a fight i would have been the first to applaud but it was a shocking display and revealed Scotland have still yet to learn the lessons we all think they have put behind them.

Meanwhile Wales did the opposite, our defense was exceptional and where we'd normally fold in the last 15 we held on and put Ireland away. Complete 360 for us, likewise for you and a disaster. But hey if you'd prefer to delude yourselves with 'we beat Wales' be my guest. You should get the BP victory v Italians and come 2nd, thats assuming you don't end up losing to them.

[RuggerRadge2611]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

It wasn't injuries, it was the complete absence of defense. England scored 3 or 4 tries, for fun off first phase outside the 22, against a defense that was frankly the equivalent of a bad school side. Thats where your at. You can either accept it or delude yourselves.

That still beat Wales...

So what?  

This was Scotland's moment, everyone knew it. Chance to prove that this wasn't another blip and that there was some substance but from the first minute Scots showed they are unable to even defend off first phase, it was like watching men v boys. Had you put up even a semblance of a fight i would have been the first to applaud but it was a shocking display and revealed Scotland have still yet to learn the lessons we all think they have put behind them.

Meanwhile Wales did the opposite, our defense was exceptional and where we'd normally fold in the last 15 we held on and put Ireland away. Complete 360 for us, likewise for you and a disaster. But hey if you'd prefer to delude yourselves with 'we beat Wales' be my guest. You should get the BP victory v Italians and come 2nd, thats assuming you don't end up losing to them.

Yes I'd imagine we will take the bonus point against Italy. But England were exceptional today. Why can't you praise their performance instead of criticising Scotland? We had a tough day today and lost 5 players to injury, 2 of them on the 1st 20 minutes including our best player and his replacement.

We were very unfortunate and Joseph was unplayable today. I seriously doubt Wales could have done any more to stem that tide compared to Scotland.

Like I said how does one bad performance condemn us and one good performance make your team amazing again? I just don't see it.

[Scottrf]

How was the Wales defence last time they came to Twickenham?

[Hammersmith harrier]

A Welshmen having a go at the Scottish team two weeks after they played you off the park, one victory over an Ireland team completely devoid of ideas doesn't change that.

There has to be serious question marks over Murray and Sexton as the half backs, they look blunt the moment they come up against a well organised defence.

[Rugbyjk]

I'm seriously considering itoje as Captain now.

[TightHEAD]

Farrell is a nailed on starter in either the 10 or 12 shirt IMHO. Has to be Captain if Hartley misses out due to non-rugby reasons and prejudice.

[doctor_grey]

So beating Ireland and Wales means nothing? We had another 4 key injuries today. Hogg, Bennett, Seymour and finally Wilson.

One bad performance condemns all of our guys, one win exonerates the Welsh team? Interesting.

It wasn't injuries, it was the complete absence of defense. England scored 3 or 4 tries, for fun off first phase outside the 22, against a defense that was frankly the equivalent of a bad school side. Thats where your at. You can either accept it or delude yourselves.

That still beat Wales...

So what?  

This was Scotland's moment, everyone knew it. Chance to prove that this wasn't another blip and that there was some substance but from the first minute Scots showed they are unable to even defend off first phase, it was like watching men v boys. Had you put up even a semblance of a fight i would have been the first to applaud but it was a shocking display and revealed Scotland have still yet to learn the lessons we all think they have put behind them.

Meanwhile Wales did the opposite, our defense was exceptional and where we'd normally fold in the last 15 we held on and put Ireland away. Complete 360 for us, likewise for you and a disaster. But hey if you'd prefer to delude yourselves with 'we beat Wales' be my guest. You should get the BP victory v Italians and come 2nd, thats assuming you don't end up losing to them.

Yes I'd imagine we will take the bonus point against Italy. But England were exceptional today. Why can't you praise their performance instead of criticising Scotland? We had a tough day today and lost 5 players to injury, 2 of them on the 1st 20 minutes including our best player and his replacement.

We were very unfortunate and Joseph was unplayable today. I seriously doubt Wales could have done any more to stem that tide compared to Scotland.

Like I said how does one bad performance condemn us and one good performance make your team amazing again? I just don't see it.

Agree.  Clearly England were very good and Scotland had a tough day at the office.  As it turns out, today was England's day and no team in the tournament was going to beat them when on fire like this.  But how can a team going to keep the scoreline respectable with all those injuries?  Scotland could very well come in second place this year.  That is not too bad, not too bad at all.

[Guest]

I'd be happy with Hartley as captain. The 2nd rows are likely to be English so they can hit the ground running in terms of working together as a functional lineout unit, rather than starting from scratch with a new partnership as you would if, for example, Best was hooker.

[doctor_grey]

I'd be happy with Hartley as captain. The 2nd rows are likely to be English so they can hit the ground running in terms of working together as a functional lineout unit, rather than starting from scratch with a new partnership as you would if, for example, Best was hooker.

Hartley might just be getting back in game shape. He had a nice game today. If he is ripping, then he needs to be the captain.

[Rugbyjk]

Hartley was great today, TOTALLY committed.

[TightHEAD]

So have we put to bed the idea of Best being Captain and starting Hooker?

[Rugbyjk]

Think so, clearly next week will help.

[Gwlad]

I'm seriously considering itoje as Captain now.

Doesn't surprise me in the least since you clearly know nothing about the Lions. Not even Capt of his own country, not even first choice in his own position. Good choice.

[Rugbyjk]

Yeah, I know nothing. U absolute d1ck.

[Rugbyjk]

Anyone not putting itoje as first name on the teamsheet knows nothing.

[Gwlad]

Exactly the sort of classless performance i expect from you.

[Rugbyjk]

And u support Wales?

[Rugbyjk]

Joke

[TightHEAD]

Come on guys lets all get on, we are rugby fans after all

[Gwlad]

Anyone not putting itoje as first name on the teamsheet knows nothing.

so Eddie Jones included then since he ISNT picking him at lock - his position - and he ISN'T picking for skipper. I like your logic.

[Rugbyjk]

Ok.

[Rugbyjk]

Itoje is class, end of. Prefer him at lock but your dismissal shows ur ignorance. Oh yeah, alun wyn, do one yer clueless numpty.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Anyone not putting itoje as first name on the teamsheet knows nothing.

so Eddie Jones included then since he ISNT picking him at lock - his position - and he ISN'T picking for skipper. I like your logic.

Be reasonable now, he isn't picking Lawes ahead of him rather he's picking Itoje as the best replacement for Robshaw.

Today was Hartley's best game for a long time, imperious set piece and tackled strongly.

[Rugbyjk]

Hartley was great today.

[Presuming Ed]

Hartley has been great for England but I wouldn't pick him as Lions capt, or Itoje for that matter. Itoje would definitely and Hartley most likely be in my starting 15 though.

[Rugbyjk]

Who would be your captain presuming?

[Gwlad]

Itoje is class, end of. Prefer him at lock but your dismissal shows ur ignorance. Oh yeah, alun wyn, do one yer clueless numpty.

If you can't express an opinion without resorting to personal abuse then you aren't worth debating with and you clearly dont understand that a forum is where people express different opinions.

Consequently your opinion is worthless and your belief that you can enforce your rather juvenile wishes by constant abuse suggests you are very very immature.

What, after all, are you going to do if i don't 'do one'? Not a lot i expect.

[Sponsored content]