Women’s Super Rugby in England

by **Rugby Fan** Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:42 pm

Here are the teams selected by the RFU for a women's domestic competition. Interesting to see how they differ from the men's competition (e.g. no Leicester, Saints or Bath)

Bristol Ladies Rugby Ltd
Darlington Mowden Park Sharks
Firwood Waterloo Ladies
Harlequin FC
Gloucester-Hartpury Women’s RFC
Loughborough Students (Lightning)
Richmond FC
Saracens Women
Wasps FC Ladies
Worcester Valkyries.

The competition will receive a multi-million pound investment from the RFU over the next three years to help deliver the minimum standards expected and provide high-quality coaching, facilities, training environments and community engagement plans.

“We now have the opportunity to build a world-class domestic competition, with the backing and funding of the RFU, demonstrating the union’s commitment to growing the game at all levels,” added Melville.

The announcement reflects the increasing popularity and success of women’s rugby in England following the Red Roses’ success of winning the Women’s Rugby World Cup in 2014 and Great Britain playing in the first sevens competition of the Olympic Games last year in Rio.

This season has seen the RFU announce its ambitions to double the number of women and girls playing rugby to 50,000 and the arrival of 15-a-side professional contracts ahead of eagerly anticipated Women’s Rugby World Cup in August this year.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/rfu-launch-womens-super-rugby/

by propdavid_london Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:57 am

Its a long way to go with womens rugby but this is a real boost. They must take this opportunity and the next world cup as a bit of a springboard for growth.

Litchfield is the only current Womens prem side that I don't see on that list. I wonder what the justification is for not including them?

by prop_lyd Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:19 am

There's a statement on their Facebook about not being in the revamped league. Safe to say they aren't impressed!

by **LondonTiger** Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:50 am

The team that is second in the Premiership (just 1 point behind leaders Bristol) and provides 8 of the current Women's EPS does not make the cut. Seems crazy at first viewing.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:56 pm

The RFU over the next few years will inject a multi-million pound investment?

Just a few questions.
Are these women's clubs part of the main AP Premiership clubs (i.e. is Saracens Women owned by the AP Premiership side of the same name?)
If so, do these big AP teams contribute to the new competition and if so, do they contribute the maximum amount or does the RFU contribute the max amount for the competition?

by propdavid_london Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:12 pm

I believe generally there is a loose association to the AP clubs - for instance Harlequins women basically brought Aylseford Bulls as a way into the women's premiership.
Wasps ladies I believe are more closely associated with Wasps armature rather than the professional setup (still at Twyford Ave, rather than Coventry)

There are some clubs there with out AP association and then there are some 'franchises' in there that are completely new to top level women's rugby - Waterloo, Gloucester, Loughborough......

From what I read it looks like the selection was more down to financial capabilities and facilities rather than current EPS player base......I have no idea what the state of Litchfields financials are but perhaps they didn't meet minimum criteria.

There are other National Div 1 sides that I am sure are equally peeved about being left out!

by **LondonTiger** Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:20 pm

Saracens Women are, like Wasps, associated with the Amateur club and not the pro one. Or at least they were (when my ex-wife played for them** and I coached the colts).

** I used to be married to a hooker Very Happy

by propdavid_london Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:25 pm

Sarries, Bristol, Wasps as you say are all associated with the armature set ups.
Harlequins are the only one that seems to be linked to the umbrella senior mens.

Its OK LT, I'm married to a 2nd row!

by carpet baboon Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:27 pm

The biggest kick in the tits is the 8current EPS players at litchfield will be forced to move as if they ain't in the new super league they ain't in the EPS.
Are you sure one of sarries lawyers didn't help design the league?

by **LondonTiger** Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:34 pm

Lichfield are, quite rightly not happy, and seem to have been sacrificed to allow a team from the Academy set up at Loughbrough.

by propdavid_london Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:32 am

Its also not as if Litchfield is close to any of the alternatives either!
Players may well have to re-locate - and while some are on professional contracts.....they aren't on that much.

by carpet baboon Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:06 am

What I find seriously annoying is they have completely overlooked all the work litchfield have done for the women's and girls game.
They should be held up as a shining example of how it's done, but no feck you thanks but no thanks not wanted here

by **LondonTiger** Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:42 am

https://www.change.org/p/rfu-rfu-to-review-lichfield-ladies-bid

by propdavid_london Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:10 am

Lichfield Ladies Rugby currently one of the most successful Ladies Rugby Team ever!

Not sure about that. The league in recent future has pretty much been dominated by Richmond and Sarries.

by **LondonTiger** Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:45 am

propdavid_london wrote:Lichfield Ladies Rugby currently one of the most successful Ladies Rugby Team ever!

Not sure about that. The league in recent future has pretty much been dominated by Richmond and Sarries.

A touch of hyperbole, though the dominance of the "London" clubs has waned in recent times.

by beshocked Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:04 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Saracens Women are, like Wasps, associated with the Amateur club and not the pro one. Or at least they were (when my ex-wife played for them** and I coached the colts).

** I used to be married to a hooker

Not sure what the exact relationship with Saracens Women and the male Saracens pro team now but I know that Saracens Women have played quite a few times at Allianz Park and Margaret Alphonsi seems to go there a lot.

They also wear the same strips as the male Saracens pro team. I would say is there some association.

http://www.saracens.com/news-article/saracens-women-s-super-rugby-inclusion-wonderful-news-wray#sthash.dobiBV9D.dpufhttp://www.saracens.com/news-article/saracens-women-s-super-rugby-inclusion-wonderful-news-wray

by propdavid_london Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:08 pm

Completely agree - currently Litchfield and Bristol are the 2 clubs at the top of the table with a point between them.

Which makes it so strange that they were left out......Like I said, there must have been something in the application that didn't go to plan!

by **Rugby Fan** Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:28 pm

Does anyone know why Lichfield were excluded? I saw someone at the club say they were given reasons but couldn't accept them.

by propdavid_london Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:37 pm

I don't think they published the findings.

http://www.lichfieldmercury.co.uk/rugby-union-lichfield-ladies-chief-disgusted-and-dumbfounded-by-super-league-exclusion/story-30174347-detail/story.html#YHpAk2SQZSYVPsYS.01

by **LondonTiger** Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:45 pm

They were told they had not fulfilled the criteria, which they refute. But no grounds for appeal as such, just a "promise" that RFU will work with anyone who did not meet the criteria to help them get there.

by Big Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:43 pm

I do find it baffling and feel for the folks in Lichfield. I'm also curious as to whether 10 teams was decided as a good number, or is just the number the RFU thought were viable. It seems a bit on the small side, especially if they want to build on the financial potential (I assume with a view to it becoming semi-pro/pro in the longer term).

by propdavid_london Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:38 am

I think there is quite a difference in the results between teams at the top of the current women's premiership and those at the bottom.
Quite often there are large win margins.
With only 8 teams in the current set-up the concern that expanding to more than 10 would see another significant drop in standard.

I assume the hope for the RFU is that the elite players that leave Litchfield to play in the super league will filter through to the newer franchises.

by carpet baboon Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:49 am

propdavid_london wrote:I think there is quite a difference in the results between teams at the top of the current women's premiership and those at the bottom.
Quite often there are large win margins.
With only 8 teams in the current set-up the concern that expanding to more than 10 would see another significant drop in standard.

I assume the hope for the RFU is that the elite players that leave Litchfield to play in the super league will filter through to the newer franchises.

But isn't the point that the fact litchfield are producing EPS players and winning they should be in the new super league? Rather than being told thanks for your hard work now say goodbye to the players as they are being forced to a worse team that havnt developed their own.

by propdavid_london Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:16 am

I completely agree - Litchfield is one of the strongest teams in the current premiership.
To drop them from the new format suggests that the new system is not about maintaining the standard of the premiership.....and possibly more about casting a wider net for future development!
Gloucester and Loughborough both have big student bases......maybe that is the reason for their inclusion...I don't know!

by propdavid_london Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:18 am

Do Loughborough and Gloucester say that they can bring more money into the game?
Its sad to think that we are becoming so money focused in the sport......but how else will we see development of the game in England?

by carpet baboon Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:32 am

propdavid_london wrote:Do Loughborough and Gloucester say that they can bring more money into the game?
Its sad to think that we are becoming so money focused in the sport......but how else will we see development of the game in England?

The RFU could ask litchfield how they have developed women's rugby. Oh wait they just shafted them.
And your right every day we seem to be slipping closer and closer to the money is everything mentality. It's quite quite sad.
What amazes me is litchfield should have been the rfu s shining beacon on how you develope a competitive well coached club that has done amazing work for the women's game. But instead they have given them a massive Frick you.

by propdavid_london Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:11 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39179212

by beshocked Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:36 am

My solution would be expand it to 12 - include Litchfield and 1 other. RFU should admit they made a massive balls up, apologise and include Litchfield.

RFU will only give paltry funding to wheelchair rugby too. Their marketing and merchandise isn't good enough either.

Shirt Prices are a joke.

Charge extortionate prices for internationals.

RFU need to do more. They make so much.

by propdavid_london Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:13 pm

Diluting the player base even more!
If they wanted to make it a 10 team league then take the existing prem sides and add 2 more.

For the 2 new teams there should have been a selection between the Div1 North and South (currently Thurrock and Waterloo) and then the other 2 new entries of Loughborough and Gloucester....
Selection would have been between 4 sides for inclusion into the new system not all teams (again, as long as minimum requirements are met).

Incidentally the 2nd place in Div 1 North behind Waterloo is Litchfield 2nds.......So Litchfield have a very good player base at a high level.

by beshocked Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:25 pm

propdavid london can't exclude the current 10 now so just make it 12.

Only way I think the RFU can save face is doing that. Send a humble apology to Litchfield too.

by propdavid_london Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:43 pm

Sadly I don't think that will happen beshocked!
Someone has an agenda at the RFU and they are pushing it through. I do wonder how much consultation there was with the clubs before all this initiative! I guess with the clubs primarily being amature that the RFU feels as if it can ride rough shod over them.

Are the RFU looking at the early professional years and the past disputes with clubs over player release etc. So they are implementing a system in the womens game where the union holds the power over the franchises!
Clubs step out of line......the rfu pulls the plug on their super rugby franchise..........kind of feels that way at least.

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