Jeff chat

First topic message reminder :

As LT has retired his excellent pen I thought it would be useful to have a running thread to discuss the Jeff games/ rounds. Entirely self-serving of course given my undoubted preference of club over country

And just for Yappy

P W D L F A BP Pts
1 Wasps 17 13 1 3 537 371 10 64
2 Exeter 17 10 3 4 490 335 13 59
3 Saracens 17 12 1 4 417 247 8 58
4 Bath 17 10 0 7 362 294 8 48
5 Leicester 17 10 0 7 411 343 7 47
6 Saints 17 9 0 8 356 339 8 44
7 Harlequins 17 9 0 8 382 395 6 42
8 Newcastle 17 7 0 10 339 443 8 36
9 Gloucester 17 5 2 10 408 399 11 35
10 Sale 17 5 1 11 335 435 7 29
11 Worcester 17 4 2 11 345 523 4 24
12 Bristol 17 3 0 14 277 535 5 17

Falcons
Sarries
Chiefs
Wasps
Saints

That's the final run in for Quins............I cant see Quins stepping any further up the table.

Final Quins game against Saints could be interesting. Might be 2 under preforming sides in a winner takes all for finishing 6th and Europe. No disrespect meant to Falcons or Gloucester who could still take 6th.

As a Saints fan I'm not confident about Saturday's game. Not beaten them in 6 goes now and although had some better results in the league in recent times the performances have been far from convincing. Add to the the defense has been poor and the Tigers back line options becoming fit again and it's certainly a worry.

Plus Tigers players seem pretty peeved that it Mauger's last game and will have a point to prove. Think although at home it may be a long afternoon for Saints.

Quins team for Newcastle looks strong.

Brown, Visser, Roberts, Nev, Robshaw and Marler all back and starting. We should expect 5 points from this game now.

We may be winning but Glaws are utter tripe

Gloucester are really on the back foot but Bristol are lacking any clinical ability in the 22.

I'm not really sure what the Gloucester game plan is?

The game plan is to get a 5 point win, but how we achieved it is an utter mystery! Nevertheless Hibbard was I menses and what a try by May

The Gloucester game plan was both sides can't attack but our defence is better than theirs so let's give them the ball and apply pressure until they make enough mistakes for us to score. Great result for Glaws.

I know injury has really stymied his career, however I actually think that the ever sharp Sharples is the better of 'calamity May'. He's got the instinctive nose for the line and real pace. I guess its a case of what might have been after bombers flirtation a few years back.
I really liked May's 30 yard run backwards only to chuck it to the unfortunate Morgan. Top 2 cm's......(surely that should be inches? Ed.)

Quins 0-7 Falcons

Great break by Wilson giving an easy run in for Takalu. Awful wind, numerous knock ons.

All Quins since the first 10mins, lead 17-10. Falcons must have made 10+ handling errors which is preventing any momentum. Quins with some nice offloading, Brown playing really well.

Hell of a derby that between Saints and Tigers.

A deserved send of for Mauger from the Tigers players.

Picamoles and Lawes were outstanding. As were Kitchener and Veainu for Tigers.

Question for Gloucester fans, how's the ex ulster prop McAllister doing?

king_carlos wrote:Hell of a derby that between Saints and Tigers.

A deserved send of for Mauger from the Tigers players.

Picamoles and Lawes were outstanding. As were Kitchener and Veainu for Tigers.

Great game. Can't believe we didn't win it.

king_carlos wrote:Hell of a derby that between Saints and Tigers.

A deserved send of for Mauger from the Tigers players.

Picamoles and Lawes were outstanding. As were Kitchener and Veainu for Tigers.

Saints were oddly unable to capitalise on their breakdown dominance, Tigers really went with the wrong backrow. Was it not for Genge dismantling the Saints tightheads and Kitchener fashioning a half decent lineout defence we'd have been toast.

That scrum was an embarrassment.

We had a lot of weight in our tight five and possibly the best scrummaging tighthead and potentially the best loosehead in the NH (if he keeps developing the way he's going). We've looked decent at the scrum since Stanko took charge in that department.

If we can play at all like we did today, I wouldn't rule out Quins winning several of their remaining games. Not all though. I think we'll squeeze 6th with some mojo and the big boys back.

Saracens bath is free on BT today.

ChequeredJersey wrote:If we can play at all like we did today, I wouldn't rule out Quins winning several of their remaining games. Not all though. I think we'll squeeze 6th with some mojo and the big boys back.

With Saints run-in, you should finished clear of them with some ease (they travel to Wasps and Exeter and host Sarries, before you visits them in the last round.)

Worcester head and shoulders above Wasps in this first half. Great at the breakdown, brilliant offloading. I think Gold is an excellent forwards coach. Wasps need to wake up or they'll be losing this.

Tell a lie. Wade is fantastic, there really is no-one else like him in English rugby.

Double bonus point for Worcester virtually relegates Bristol.

Hood83 wrote:Tell a lie. Wade is fantastic, there really is no-one else like him in English rugby.

Agreed and its been the case for the last 5 years.

Wasps have been really poor today. Ofcourse you can forgive them (NOT!) having their eyes on next week and coming back from the break however they just play too loosely at times and unless the forwards turn up then they appear vulnerable.

It finished 40 - 33 however Worcester played the 2nd half with 14 when their wing was sent off for the a ridiculously dangerous tackle taking his opposite out in the air, to land on his head.

Its a real shame that Wasps weren't able to integrate their internationals (Haskell played but still looked off the pace) as I think it will be a combination of their unfamiliarity and over confidence that will undo them away in Dublin - here's hoping I'm wrong. Compared to Saracens who I believe have all returned today in readiness for next weeks quarter final. Obviously Dai knows more than I will ever do but it can't be ideal?

As it stands my prediction of the Jeff / GT Wasps double with Wade scoring the winning tries is still a possibility though the premonition is looking a little grainy at present.

Saracens are currently destroying Bath 53 - 10......

Saracens are pumping Bath. Any thoughts from Bath fans on the impact of Blackadder overall. Good, bad, average?

Saracens also destroying Bath. Bath playing like individuals against a well oiled machine. A lot of the Bath forwards checked out of this game a while ago.

Lets hope Sarries get over confident

Blackadder been a good addition, wise recruiting, brought some confidence back for he team and given big youth chances to ewels Ellis mercer Clark.

We've been decimated by injuries, we've had to sign 13 short term contracts this year and we started the year with the smallest squad. We are nowhere near a top 4 side, so all in all pretty happy.

This is an absolute pumping though!

Ashton been great this afternoon. But appealing for lineouts like a footballer and a couple of swallow dives. Just makes him so unlikeable, which is a big shame because he's been outstanding.

Bathite wrote:Blackadder been a good addition, wise recruiting, brought some confidence back  for he team and given big youth chances to ewels Ellis mercer Clark.

We've been decimated by injuries, we've had to sign 13 short term contracts this year and we started the year with the smallest squad. We are nowhere near a top 4 side, so all in all pretty happy.

This is an absolute pumping though!

Thanks Bathite. I didn't realise you'd been hit so hard. I still miss the Meehan offloading game :-(

Meehan offloading game was great, but us two years ago with both fords on form was better to be honest.

Short term injury signings this year
HK - brooker, Charles, graham
PR - Marfo, knight,
Back row - grant, Houston
Backs - Phillips, brew, tapuai, Fruean, Wilson, allison

Bathite wrote:Meehan offloading game was great, but us two years ago with both fords on form was better to be honest.

Short term injury signings this year
HK - brooker, Charles, graham
PR - Marfo, knight,
Back row - grant, Houston
Backs - Phillips, brew, tapuai, Fruean, Wilson, allison

Fair point. Less easy on the eye though. How was Fruean, I'd have thought he'd be incredible.

Only played 2 games I think. Got injured in last game in NZ before leaving, then knee niggles since.

Henry Taylor looked really nice on his AP debut from the bench against Bath. As the commentators said, it's nice to come on when you have that kind of lead but still, he added so much tempo.

Just shows how competitive rugby can be that he was part of the England u20s 2014 squad.

Whatever people say about the likes of Goode and Ashton at international level, at club level they are two of the best in their position IMO. Makes it easier when your pack is doing well but Saracens didn't have it all their own way - got turned over a lot.

Nice performance before facing Glasgow.

At the moment there isn't a top 4 - there's a top 3 then a chasing pack of 3-4 teams.

I'm glad that Quins got their house in order - returning internationals and players from injury all from the same game had the feel of a fresh start.
Disappointing thing is that this will paper over the cracks with John Kingston..

Brad Barritt had the best attacking game I've seen from him in a long time too. Regularly getting over the gain line and causing Bath real problems. Deservedly MOTM IMO. Shame Banahan almost taking Barritt's head off wasn't penalised though which is why Barritt had to go off injured. Hopefully he's fit for the Glasgow game.

What a fabulous weekend of games. Sarries have sent an ominous warning shot to Wasps and Exeter. I can't see Sarries replacing wasps at the top, but Exeter will have a tough ask with their remaining fixtures to stay ahead; it may just come down to BPs.

Dear old Bristol are down, although their supporters are still clinging on to the conspiracy theory that relegation will be scrapped this year. It is pretty rare a team can play as badly as Glaws did and still pick up 5 points and I can't see us picking up more than 1 win from Falcons (A), Sale (H), Bath (A) and Exeter (H).

Falcons
Tait; Goneva, C. Harris, Socino, Watson; Delany, Young; Vickers, Cooper, D. Wilson; Green, Olmstead; M. Wilson, Welch, Hogg.

Replacements: Lawson, B. Harris, Welsh, Witty, Chick, Takulua, Hodgson, Sinoti.

Glaws
15. Tom Marshall; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Henry Trinder, 12. Mark Atkinson, 11. Jonny May; 10. Billy Twelvetrees, 9. Willi Heinz (capt); 1. Paddy McAllister, 2. Motu Matu'u, 3. John Afoa; 4. Tom Savage, 5. Mariano Galarza; 6. Ross Moriarty, 7. Jacob Rowan, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements:

16. Richard Hibbard, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Josh Hohneck, 19. Tom Denton, 20. Lewis Ludlow, 21. Callum Braley, 22. Lloyd Evans, 23. Henry Purdy


Falcons by 20

Presumably BT don't have the flexibility to change televised games once they are announced? With Worcester and Sale both in the no man's land by being safe from relegation with no chance of making the top 7 it could turn in to a bit of a dud, albeit possibly a high scoring one.

I quite fancy the Falcons Gloucester game to be something of a cracker with both teams not yet ready to throw in the towel, especially looking at the run ins for both Quins and Saints. With the battle for 4th in all likelihood being wrapped up this weekend it might be the fight over 5-7 (should Gloucester not win the Challenge cup) that provides the excitement in the remaining weeks.

Tigers team for tomorrow:

15. Telusa Veainu, 14. Adam Thompstone, 13. Mathew Tait, 12. Maxime Mermoz, 11. JPP, 10. Freddie Burns, 9. Ben Youngs, 1. Ellis Genge, 2. Tom Youngs, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Frak'SFITZGERALD, 7. Brendon O'Connor, 8. Luke Hamilton

16. George McGuigan, 17. Michele Rizzo, 18. Fraser Balmain, 19. Mike Williams, 20. HARRY THACKER, 21. Ben White, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Jack Roberts

Bath team:

15. Anthony Watson, 14. Semesa Rokoduguni, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Ben Tapuai, 11. Matt Banahan, 10. George Ford (co-capt), 9. Kahn Fotuali’i, 1. Nathan Catt, 2. Ross Batty, 3. Kane Palma-Newport, 4. Charlie Ewels, 5. Elliott Stooke, 6. Tom Ellis, 7. Francois Louw (co-capt), 8. Taulupe Faletau

16. Chris Brooker, 17. Beno Obano, 18. Shaun Knight, 19. David Denton, 20. Zach Mercer, 21. Chris Cook, 22. Rhys Priestland, 23. Tom Homer

Really nervous about this match, in a way I haven't really felt for a couple of years. It's much less stressful when you have no hope at all.

And for Sarries vs Quins:

Saracens

15. Alex Goode, 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt (c), 11. Sean Maitland, 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Ben Spencer, 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. Jim Hamilton, 6. Michael Rhodes, 7. Jackson Wray, 8. Billy Vunipola

16. Jamie George, 17. Titi Lamositele, 18. Petrus Du Plesis, 19. Mark Flanagan, 20. Joel Conlon, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Alex Lozowski, 23. Nick Tompkins

Harlequins

15. Mike Brown, 14. Marland Yarde, 13. Joe Marchant, 12. Jamie Roberts, 11. Tim Visser, 10. Nick Evans, 9. Danny Care(c), 1. Joe Marler, 2. Rob Buchanan, 3. Will Collier, 4. George Merrick, 5. James Horwill, 6. Chris Robshaw, 7. Jack Clifford, 8. Mat Luamanu

16. Joe Gray, 17. Mark Lambert, 18. Kyle Sinckler, 19. Charlie Matthews, 20. Dave Ward, 21. Charlie Mulchrone, 22. Tim Swiel, 23. Alofa Alofa

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Tigers team for tomorrow:

15. Tulusa Veainu, 14. Adam Thompstone, 13. Matthew Tait, 12. Maxime Mermoz, 11. JPP, 10. Freddie Burns, 9. Ben Youngs, 1. Ellis Genge, 2. Tom Youngs, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Frak'SFITZGERALD, 7. Brendon O'Connor, 8. Luke Hamilton    

16. George McGuigan, 17. Michele Rizzo, 18. Fraser Balmain, 19. Mike Williams, 20. HARRY THACKER, 21. Ben White, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Jack Roberts

Bath team:

15. Anthony Watson, 14. Semesa Rokoduguni, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Ben Tapuai, 11. Matt Banahan, 10. George Ford (co-capt), 9. Kahn Fotuali’i, 1. Nathan Catt, 2. Ross Batty, 3. Kane Palma-Newport, 4. Charlie Ewels, 5. Elliott Stooke, 6. Tom Ellis, 7. Francois Louw (co-capt), 8. Taulupe Faletau

16. Chris Brooker, 17. Beno Obano, 18. Shaun Knight, 19. David Denton, 20. Zach Mercer, 21. Chris Cook, 22. Rhys Priestland, 23. Tom Homer

Really nervous about this match, in a way I haven't really felt for a couple of years. It's much less stressful when you have no hope at all.

Why the   is Fitz starting when Williams is on the bench? I'd consider leaving him out the 23 let alone the 15. Dunno where all our tightheads have gone Balmain is normally fourth choice.

I have a nasty feeling we're going to get done over at the breakdown.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:And for Sarries vs Quins:

Saracens

15. Alex Goode, 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt (c), 11. Sean Maitland, 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Ben Spencer, 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. Jim Hamilton, 6. Michael Rhodes, 7. Jackson Wray, 8. Billy Vunipola

16. Jamie George, 17. Titi Lamositele, 18. Petrus Du Plesis, 19. Mark Flanagan, 20. Joel Conlon, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Alex Lozowski, 23. Nick Tompkins

Harlequins

15. Mike Brown, 14. Marland YArde, 13. Joe Marchant, 12. Jamie Roberts, 11. Tim Visser, 10. Nick Evans, 9. Danny Care(c), 1. Joe Marler, 2. Rob Buchanan, 3. Will Collier, 4. George Merrick, 5. James Horwill, 6. Chris Robshaw, 7. Jack Clifford, 8. Mat Luamanu

16. Joe Gray, 17. Mark Lambert, 18. Kyle Sinckler, 19. Charlie MAtthews, 20. Dave Ward, 21. Charlie Mulchrone, 22. Tim Swiel, 23. Alofa Alofa

Will be interesting to see if the Saracens gamble fails or succeeds.

I read due to EPS rules, Farrell and Itoje must be rested in the next 2 games but looks like both not in this game.

Frontrow battle will be interesting. Brits should relish Wembley though.

Wigglesworth and George on the bench is clearly rotation.

Wasps team to play Northampton Saints:

15. Willie Le Roux, 14. Christian Wade, 13. Elliot Daly, 12. Kurtley Beale, 11. Josh Bassett, 10. Jimmy Gopperth, 9. Joe Simpson, 1. Matt Mullan, 2. Tommy Taylor, 3. Phil Swainston, 4. Joe Launchbury(c), 5. Kearnan Myall, 6. Ashley Johnson, 7. Thomas Young, 8. Guy Thompson

16. Tom Cruse, 17. Tom Bristow, 18. Paul Doran Jones, 19. Matt Symons, 20. Nathan Hughes, 21. Dan Robson, 22. Danny Cipriani, 23. Alapati Leiua

Northampton:

15. Ashee Tuala, 14. George North, 13. Nafi Tuitavake, 12. Harry Mallinder, 11. Ben Foden, 10. Stephen Myler, 9. Nic Groom, 1. Alex Waller, 2. Dylan Hartley, 3. Kieran Brookes, 4. Courtney Lawes, 5. David Ribbans, 6. Jamie Gibson, 7. Tom Wood (c), 8. Louis Picamoles

16. Mikey Haywood, 17. Ethan Waller, 18. Paul Hill, 19. Api Ratuniyarawa, 20. Teimana Harrison, 21. Lee Dickson, 22. Luther Burrell, 23. Ken Pisi

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Why the   is Fitz starting when Williams is on the bench? I'd consider leaving him out the 23 let alone the 15. Dunno where all our tightheads have gone Balmain is normally fourth choice.

I have a nasty feeling we're going to get done over at the breakdown.

Exactly my concern too. I could just about fathom it while Williams was away for most of the week with the EPS training but now he really should be starting. Especially considering Fitz at 6 has been shown up time and time again. Really pleased to see Thacker in, his mobility around the big pitch could be vital in the final 30 minutes.

Will Geordan be in charge again again this week, with MOC only just returning yesterday/Wednesday?

beshocked wrote:

Will be interesting to see if the Saracens gamble fails or succeeds.

I read due to EPS rules, Farrell and Itoje must be rested in the next 2 games but looks like both not in this game.

Frontrow battle will be interesting. Brits should relish Wembley though.

Wigglesworth and George on the bench is clearly rotation.

It tends to succeed far more often than it fails for Saracens. It helps that seemingly the entire squad can slot in without any changes being made to the game plan, other teams lose a handful of players and they need to make massive changes to tactics - Tigers possibly more than most.

You have to hand it to Wasps, they know how to react to a loss. They have made a real statement of intent and brought in... PDJ.

If they'd just asked Glaws for our best available scrummager we'd have sent them Jonny May instead

Fuzzy if it had been up to me Thacker would have started and been given the job of man marking Ford. I can't see how Fitz at 6 is going to help our backrow combination, unless Williams is on the naughty step after his yellow card against Saints.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Why the   is Fitz starting when Williams is on the bench? I'd consider leaving him out the 23 let alone the 15. Dunno where all our tightheads have gone Balmain is normally fourth choice.

I have a nasty feeling we're going to get done over at the breakdown.

Exactly my concern too. I could just about fathom it while Williams was away for most of the week with the EPS training but now he really should be starting. Especially considering Fitz at 6 has been shown up time and time again.  Really pleased to see Thacker in, his mobility around the big pitch could be vital in the final 30 minutes.

Will Geordan be in charge again again this week, with MOC only just returning yesterday/Wednesday?

Balmain has played well in his odd chance this season to be fair. Earlier in the season it sounded like he lacked the work ethic to get fully fit after injury, same old with Baltrain. In previous seasons he got on the bench anyway due to injury and slowly found fitness on the pitch. With Bateman and Cilliers playing TH and showing form that hasn't happened though. Perhaps he's a player MOC likes?

He's a likeable player who I wish well going to Gloucs. He needs to play, play and play to reach his potential and improve that work ethic. With Cole, Bateman and Cilliers ahead of him plus Betts coming through that hasn't been happening for Tigers.

Mike Williams on the bench again makes no sense to me either. Or anyone I've chatted with! I hope he isn't carrying a knock that is limiting the game time they want him to get. Incidentally it sounds like Locky couldn't train this week hence his absence.

The breakdown battle is worrying but the scrum match up looks tasty for Tigers.

That's a shame, I never realised there were concerns about Balmain's attitude off-field. I thought the main reason he was retained over Brookes was his superior work ethic towards fitness and training. If that's not a particular characteristic of his then Brookes must've been seriously lazy.

Thankfully Genge is apparently the opposite. Not only a hard worker but someone who has to force himself to eat more as he struggles to keep weight on.