6 Nations Champions 2017 -E N G L A N D

First topic message reminder :

Well played England, just one more game and I think that makes up for the 2015 RWC shambles.

+ 18 on the trot

So please Congratulate us on a wonderful achievement under Eddie Jones, but please complete the Slam.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Worthy champions, yes.

Some of their fans on here need to be a bit more humble and stop running other nation's noses in it. We can all see how strong England are. We don't need it getting ranmed down our throats.

I agree. But England fans and England cop for a lot of flak in the other direction too. It's hardly one way. Failures are gloated over, credit not given and players criticised. How much have we heard how England were outplayed by x or lucky to win against x. So and so is rubbish, so and so is overrated. Look at the Lions threads to see that despite their acheivements the players are constantly belittled. Or historically the Lions successes are in spite of the English players etc etc. Like I said, I agree. It would be nice if everyone was a bit more balanced and sensible but it's important to acknowledge it's not a one way street.

Yep, and English fans are called arrogant if we ever dare to suggest we might win, despite being too pessimistic regarding the Wales game, Scotland game, Australia tour etc. It's like we have to predict we think we'll lose every game and then claim afterwards that we got lucky.

Scottrf wrote:Yep, and English fans are called arrogant if we ever dare to suggest we might win, despite being too pessimistic regarding the Wales game, Scotland game, Australia tour etc. It's like we have to predict we think we'll lose every game and then claim afterwards that we got lucky.

Tough being the biggest kid in class, isn't it? 

cascough wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Worthy champions, yes.

Some of their fans on here need to be a bit more humble and stop running other nation's noses in it. We can all see how strong England are. We don't need it getting ranmed down our throats.

I agree. But England fans and England cop for a lot of flak in the other direction too. It's hardly one way. Failures are gloated over, credit not given and players criticised. How much have we heard how England were outplayed by x or lucky to win against x. So and so is rubbish, so and so is overrated. Look at the Lions threads to see that despite their acheivements the players are constantly belittled. Or historically the Lions successes are in spite of the English players etc etc. Like I said, I agree. It would be nice if everyone was a bit more balanced and sensible but it's important to acknowledge it's not a one way street.

Very rarely in fact ever by us, but some of the mud getting thrown at us (Scotland fans) was absolutley atrocious. I'm not wanting to meantion names but one of the worst cuprits name started wit T and ended with ightHEAD.

Think Scotland were a bit hyped up by the media and in the build up to the game but most Scottish fans on here were realistic and level headed.

The difficulty of the task at hand wasn't really understood by some of the media. Harking back to 83 as if it happened only recently.

Best Scottish side in years yes but also best English side in years.

The media aren't the same as the normal fans.

Most normal fans know Ireland away will be a very tough game and if there's any complacency after beating Scotland.....England will look very silly indeed.

Yeah there's a couple of people who've exposed themselves as rather unpleasant characters the last few days. Not just the usual deliberately childish bickering or pathological intransigent circular arguing.

On the whole though I think there is a recognition that this wasnt that big a shock and that the margin was caused in part by the injuries and card.

The Ireland Wales bitterness has been worse.

Dose of realism here...England are good as any NH side has been since 2003.
Scotland aren't as bad as that scoreline suggests. Neither were Ireland when they got tonked by 60 in New Zealand. Didn't take them long to turn it around.

munkian wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Agreed.  I vote a big yes.

England are worthy 6 Nations champions.  Grand Slam is a nice bauble but winning the championship is what matters.

Next week's matches are pretty much dead rubbers.  

If England v Ireland in Dublin is ever considered a 'dead rubber' you need to have a long hard look at yourselves

It is. We could win 123 - 7 and England would still collect the silver. Don't let's live in a fantasy world just to keep the IRFU ticket sales promotion gig going. It's a dead rubber. We'll try to win the thing of course but the show is over. If you lead a busy life you can keep working next Saturday and miss nothing of the important detail of what this 6N was.

Its a Lions year and RWC rankings are at stake. The players shouldn't treat it as meaningless just because they won't lift a trophy.

Who is talking about the players?  They can do whatever the hell they like.  The game itself is a dead rubber.  
For me it's an Ireland year, and Joe Schmidt is Ireland's coach - and both he and they have started pretty badly so, yep, I'll be looking forward to Summer to see who Schmidt adds to this team for their Summer tour... because it's a stale one that keeps popping up.

Where are Ireland touring in the summer?

propdavid_london wrote:Where are Ireland touring in the summer?

Japan. Prep for the next RWC.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:Where are Ireland touring in the summer?

Japan. Prep for the next RWC.

You'll do an England and poach their coach huh ?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:Where are Ireland touring in the summer?

Japan. Prep for the next RWC.

As in getting ready for some embaressing losses you cant blame on Wayne Barnes?

England 19-16 France

The first part of the great escape. England where sh!te, even the pundits said how lucky England where. They where not the better side and pinched the result. Could the beat France now, no way. France have improved and are returning the team we've known from years gone past.

Wales 16-21 England

The second part of the great escape. A fantastic tough game, which showed England ride their luck. A wayward kick and some p!ss poor tackling allowed England to go ahead, but most (even the hard lined English press and pundits) agree, it was more Wales lost the game than England won it.

England 36-15 Italy

A lesson on how to play the game. England down to Italy at half time. Who would believe that, but then again, just as unbelievable, was that none of the English side knew the rules. The first 40 mins of this game showed how bad this England side really are.

England 61-21 Scotland

Another lesson on how to play the game. But this time England took the teaching role. Cant argue, this was the best performance England has put in, and they did teach Scotland a thing or two. Would it have been different if Scotland hadn't suffered so badly with injuries. I don't think so, well not the result anyway. Not sure the score line would have been so impressive though, if Scotland could have kept players on the field.


So, do we congratulate England. Of course, we're not childish. But the comparisons of this England side with their 2003 World Cup team and better still comparing them to the All Black.. .... and you wonder why your known as arrogant.

Lucky lucky lucky blah blah blah.

I really hope that's tongue in cheek. Can't tell.

Its as tongue in cheek as comparing them to the All Blacks... so you tell me

No9 wrote:Its as tongue in cheek as comparing them to the All Blacks... so you tell me

Comparison =/= rating as equal.

You can compare any two things.

Ha. Still can't tell. Personally yes we need to compare them to both NZ and that early 00s team as the team have broken the winning streak of the earlier england and have just equalled the tier 1 winning streak. Now the result of that comparison may well be they're not as good as either but it is a valid one nonetheless.

Oh.. well that's ok then. In that case, I reckon the Lions side should simply be the England side, as that's the best chance of winning in NZ.

Still not sure if you're serious bit I don't think you get the comparison thing if you are.

It's a while since they lost to the all blacks *casual whistle*


I reckon this side could beat anyone on their day

Gooseberry wrote:It's a while since they lost to the all blacks *casual whistle*


I reckon this side could beat anyone on their day

So do I. The point England have to prove is its not a flash in the pan.

18 games isn't a flash in the plan whatever happens from now. We are one loss from the team being written off though, such is the fickle nature of analysis.

I understand fully the comparisons being drawn up in the media. They are drafted to infer that England, man for man, is the equal to the All Blacks.

As I say, English arrogance rules ...

Pity you have to play Ireland next week and lose that winning streak. If not, a tour to Germany or Spain would have done you well to actually beat the All Blacks record. Then think what the conclusion of the media's comparison would have shown..

No9 wrote:I understand fully the comparisons being drawn up in the media. They are drafted to infer that England, man for man, is the equal to the All Blacks.

Just stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.

What's the saying .. I'd rather be lucky than....

Ah. Cheers. Now I know you're wumming!

Scottrf wrote:18 games isn't a flash in the plan whatever happens from now. We are one loss from the team being written off though, such is the fickle nature of analysis.

Sorry, I didn't make my point very clearly. England have been consistently good, but they have only been excellent a couple of times. Against Australia in the summer and against us.

You have to admit, they haven't played well all tournament until Saturday. Saturday was the best I have EVER seen England play. To beat the all blacks they'll need to bring that type of game.

On Saturday England did look like a team that could beat anyone. You can't say that about their other performances this tournament

What do you expect, with OP like this..

.. Oh sorry..

Yes, England are the best side ever. They really deserve the title, actually I don't think there's need playing next week, Ireland obviously aren't up to it, so lets just give the Grand Slam to the best side in the world..

Sorry, guys. Post opening threads as arrogant as this, and you need to be able to take criticism as well.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:18 games isn't a flash in the plan whatever happens from now. We are one loss from the team being written off though, such is the fickle nature of analysis.

Sorry, I didn't make my point very clearly. England have been consistently good, but they have only been excellent a couple of times. Against Australia in the summer and against us.

You have to admit, they haven't played well all tournament until Saturday. Saturday was the best I have EVER seen England play. To beat the all blacks they'll need to bring that type of game.

On Saturday England did look like a team that could beat anyone. You can't say that about their other performances this tournament

Spot on... and isn't that what I said...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah. Cheers. Now I know you're wumming!

Why... for pointing out that England has had one good game this 6 Nations ...

You've just posted that you were wumming so you can't really dial it back!

No 7&1/2 wrote:You've just posted that you were wumming so you can't really dial it back!

Where ? Point that out to me please...

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:18 games isn't a flash in the plan whatever happens from now. We are one loss from the team being written off though, such is the fickle nature of analysis.

Sorry, I didn't make my point very clearly. England have been consistently good, but they have only been excellent a couple of times. Against Australia in the summer and against us.

You have to admit, they haven't played well all tournament until Saturday. Saturday was the best I have EVER seen England play. To beat the all blacks they'll need to bring that type of game.

On Saturday England did look like a team that could beat anyone. You can't say that about their other performances this tournament

New Zealand also play poorly and pull wins out of the bag. Admittedly not very often. Yes, it was a poor start to the tournament and maybe shows that despite the strength in depth we missed a few of the top players.

I think England are a very strong team who although don't perform like last weekend every game will be incredibly tough for anyone to beat (including New Zealand). Yet we will lose and will remain a very strong team. That's why I take an issue with flash in the pan. We wont win every game to the next world cup and the backlash will be huge when the loss comes.

Next thing you know people will be saying Irelands win in the US was a flash in pan and they are infact a fairly avaerage NH side

You wanted to wum back to a wum no 9. You said so above. Fair enough.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You wanted to wum back to a wum no 9. You said so above. Fair enough.

That doesn't make any sense at all....

I have not said my comment was a WUM at any point.

I have not admitted to a WUM at any point.

And, if (as I think you are referring to), my response referring to the OP. If that's a WUM (the OP), as your suggesting, it doesn't mean my response was one.

My response was genuine, so for clarity sake.

1. Congratulations England. Won the title, really lucky to do so, but well done never the less.
2. Comparing England with the All Blacks - bit premature, shouts arrogance and a fall is likely soon (within a week).

Think, I've made my point here... cant see the point of further discussions, so will let you rip my comments apart and bask in the glory and England's greatness.

Oh.. one final thing. Before my last note is also put up as a WUM, suggest you Google "Sarcasm"...

No9 wrote:2. Comparing England with the All Blacks - bit premature, shouts arrogance and a fall is likely soon (within a week).

Surely if we lose then it's fair to compare us with the All Blacks? Except their loss wasn't in Dublin...

Alright.. I said it was my last word..

But just take a look at this thread..

https://www.606v2.com/t65335-how-will-england-evolve-before-they-next-play-new-zealand

How will England evolve before they next play New Zealand?
Post by DaveM on Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:04 pm
England next play NZ in the autumn of 2018. We can be confident that they will be ranked 2 and 1 in the world, but England will have home advantage. I expect this will be one of the most hyped games in the history of rugby.

We have a summer tour, autumn internationals and another 6 Nations before then, but as the poster says... "We can be confident that they will be ranked 2 and 1 in the world"...

Arrogance ?

I rest my case...

Gooseberry wrote:Next thing you know people will be saying Irelands win in the US was a flash in pan and they are infact a fairly avaerage NH side

Ireland fans are saying that.

No9 wrote:We have a summer tour, autumn internationals and another 6 Nations before then, but as the poster says... "We can be confident that they will be ranked 2 and 1 in the world"...  

Arrogance ?

I rest my case...

Who knows. What's remarkable about the rankings currently is that if England played the #4 ranked team at home we would gain no points for a 50 point win.

Arrogance of some posters has nothing to do whether a comparison to nz or the 03 is valid. It is as this team has achieved a winning streak quality or beyond them. As I said previously comparing 2 teams doesn't necessarily result in the belief the 2 or 3 etc teams are equal. There's nothing arrogant in that comparison in itself.

I quite like the attempts to compare different England teams across the years, and Guscott's article is a fun read.

I think this England side is a very strong one, and whilst I would argue that this vintage is a little earlier in the side's trajectory than the 2003 side (which was about 6-12 months past its best, to be frank), I think the raw materials in this England side are just as good as in 2003 (in fact I think the backline could be better). The coach is certainly an upgrade....

funnyExiledScot wrote:The coach is certainly an upgrade....

Fashionable to poke at SCW but he was quite ahead of his time in terms of professionalism IMO. And probably a bit early to judge EJ.

Its a shame we will have to wait until November to see NZ v England. That would be a very interesting match.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a shame we will have to wait until November to see NZ v England. That would be a very interesting match.

June.

Scottrf wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:The coach is certainly an upgrade....

Fashionable to poke at SCW but he was quite ahead of his time in terms of professionalism IMO. And probably a bit early to judge EJ.

I know, but I've been having a dig at Sir Clive "Winning" Woodward long before it became fashionable....

I feel pretty comfortable judging EJ. He's been a successful international coach for 15+ years.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:The coach is certainly an upgrade....

Fashionable to poke at SCW but he was quite ahead of his time in terms of professionalism IMO. And probably a bit early to judge EJ.

I know, but I've been having a dig at Sir Clive "Winning" Woodward long before it became fashionable....

I feel pretty comfortable judging EJ. He's been a successful international coach for 15+ years.

There are certainly mixed opinions on his coaching exploits, at least in club rugby. For the England team he's done well so far but the real challenge will be in the next stages.