Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

First topic message reminder :

Results

Scotland 27 - Ireland 22
France 22 - Scotland 16  
Scotland 29 - Wales 13  
England 61 - Scotland 21  
Scotland 29 - Italy 0  

Some stats:

- First time with 3 wins since 2006
- First opening round win and win over Wales in over a decade
- 14 tries scored - our best ever
- Our highest points tally (in 2014 we scored 45 points   )
- Up to 5th in the World Rankings


Verdict
Bar Twickenham this was a fantastic 6N where we won our games playing great rugby.  It was a huge monkey off our back to beat Wales and the Ireland game was a huge result for us.  The Twickenham game was a complete embarrassment but I'd like to think that was a freak result for this team as opposed to a sign that our wins over Wales and Ireland were 'lucky'.  It should keep the players grounded going forward, which is no bad thing.

All in all I'll give our 6N a 8/10

Lions hopefuls?

Pr - can't see any travelling
H Fraser Brown stands an outside chance, and could be injury cover
L - Jonny or Richie Gray stand a chance in the most competitive position
BR - I don't see any of our backrows going
SH - Laidlaw is down the list in terms of ability at 9 but may be picked as a good tourist/leader for the squad
FH - Finn Russell certainly divides opinion but personally I don't think he will travel
C - Dunbar and Jones are outside bets in what isn't actually a great position of depth for the Lions, but again may find themselves as injury cover
FR - Hogg is a near certainty and I can see another winger getting picked, probably Seymour

My prediction:

J Gray, Hogg, Seymour in the squad, Brown, Laidlaw and Jones as first choice injury cover.

jimbopip wrote:Thunderthighs, welcome to the house of fun (except when Gwlad is pissing on the sandwiches).
Yes I am a proud product of Cowcaddens and yes Glasgow Warriors are the 1872 Cup holders.
Apart from a recent blip, mainly due to over confidence/contempt, it has been an annual slaughter. I love the way AdminBoy didn't even try to deny that The MFL are over so slightly effeminate but rather  attempted an Orwellian "Denton, early SHC era" whitewash. He's fooling no-one. Least of all big Agnes on the Men's Grooming counter at Jenners who's on first name terms with most of the first team squad.
Not that it counts for anything, but I like the way you express yourself and it would be a shame if you don't become a regular here. I'm sure Bru would love to hear your opinion on Moneyball versus Last Of The Mohicans as the best film of all time.

You're too kind.  Once I've learned to avoid posting anything that attracts the attention of , it'll be fine.  I think the trick is to let him have the last word, then he'll be as happy as any other 10 year old.

Getting back to rugby - Rory Hutchinson, who's now at Northampton, used to be at one of the local teams here.  I've seen him a few times, looked like a decent 10 to me although he seems to play mostly at centre for Saints.  If he and Hastings can get some gametime, we could have proper competition at flyhalf in a couple of years time  .  They'll never be Lions material, of course, but might be good enough for us.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without being too pedantic Tim Visser is very much a left winger and you'd both put him on the right...(yes there is a difference!)

I'm waiting for the laymans terms explaination.

If you put a left winger on the right wing then when they want to cut infield, they actually run off the side of the pitch.

highland_scot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without being too pedantic Tim Visser is very much a left winger and you'd both put him on the right...(yes there is a difference!)

I'm waiting for the laymans terms explaination.

If you put a left winger on the right wing then when they want to cut infield, they actually run off the side of the pitch.

Left wingers arent expected to tackle as much. Hence Jeremy Corbyn

Gooseberry wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without being too pedantic Tim Visser is very much a left winger and you'd both put him on the right...(yes there is a difference!)

I'm waiting for the laymans terms explaination.

If you put a left winger on the right wing then when they want to cut infield, they actually run off the side of the pitch.

Left wingers arent expected to tackle as much. Hence Jeremy Corbyn

Definitely suits Visser!

Thunderthighs wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Thunderthighs, welcome to the house of fun (except when Gwlad is pissing on the sandwiches).
Yes I am a proud product of Cowcaddens and yes Glasgow Warriors are the 1872 Cup holders.
Apart from a recent blip, mainly due to over confidence/contempt, it has been an annual slaughter. I love the way AdminBoy didn't even try to deny that The MFL are over so slightly effeminate but rather  attempted an Orwellian "Denton, early SHC era" whitewash. He's fooling no-one. Least of all big Agnes on the Men's Grooming counter at Jenners who's on first name terms with most of the first team squad.
Not that it counts for anything, but I like the way you express yourself and it would be a shame if you don't become a regular here. I'm sure Bru would love to hear your opinion on Moneyball versus Last Of The Mohicans as the best film of all time.

You're too kind.  Once I've learned to avoid posting anything that attracts the attention of , it'll be fine.  I think the trick is to let him have the last word, then he'll be as happy as any other 10 year old.

Getting back to rugby - Rory Hutchinson, who's now at Northampton, used to be at one of the local teams here.  I've seen him a few times, looked like a decent 10 to me although he seems to play mostly at centre for Saints.  If he and Hastings can get some gametime, we could have proper competition at flyhalf in a couple of years time  .  They'll never be Lions material, of course, but might be good enough for us.

Well since you shoot your bolt pretty quickly and can't keep your powder dry for a minute I expect you'll be pretty all the time

Gwlad wrote:

Thunderthighs wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Thunderthighs, welcome to the house of fun (except when Gwlad is pissing on the sandwiches).
Yes I am a proud product of Cowcaddens and yes Glasgow Warriors are the 1872 Cup holders.
Apart from a recent blip, mainly due to over confidence/contempt, it has been an annual slaughter. I love the way AdminBoy didn't even try to deny that The MFL are over so slightly effeminate but rather  attempted an Orwellian "Denton, early SHC era" whitewash. He's fooling no-one. Least of all big Agnes on the Men's Grooming counter at Jenners who's on first name terms with most of the first team squad.
Not that it counts for anything, but I like the way you express yourself and it would be a shame if you don't become a regular here. I'm sure Bru would love to hear your opinion on Moneyball versus Last Of The Mohicans as the best film of all time.

You're too kind.  Once I've learned to avoid posting anything that attracts the attention of , it'll be fine.  I think the trick is to let him have the last word, then he'll be as happy as any other 10 year old.

Getting back to rugby - Rory Hutchinson, who's now at Northampton, used to be at one of the local teams here.  I've seen him a few times, looked like a decent 10 to me although he seems to play mostly at centre for Saints.  If he and Hastings can get some gametime, we could have proper competition at flyhalf in a couple of years time  .  They'll never be Lions material, of course, but might be good enough for us.

Well since you shoot your bolt pretty quickly and can't keep your powder dry for a minute I expect you'll be pretty all the time

Gwlad, judging by the infantile metaphors, you're now fantasising about my capabilities (or lack of) in the sack. You're a deeply disturbing character.

jimbopip wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Thunderthighs, welcome to the house of fun (except when Gwlad is pissing on the sandwiches).
Yes I am a proud product of Cowcaddens and yes Glasgow Warriors are the 1872 Cup holders.
Apart from a recent blip, mainly due to over confidence/contempt, it has been an annual slaughter. I love the way AdminBoy didn't even try to deny that The MFL are over so slightly effeminate but rather  attempted an Orwellian "Denton, early SHC era" whitewash. He's fooling no-one. Least of all big Agnes on the Men's Grooming counter at Jenners who's on first name terms with most of the first team squad.
Not that it counts for anything, but I like the way you express yourself and it would be a shame if you don't become a regular here. I'm sure Bru would love to hear your opinion on Moneyball versus Last Of The Mohicans as the best film of all time.

Is there not a certain amount of irony here, you're calling out the Edinburgh players for being on first name terms with a lady who you know the first name of.....

EWT,

Actually I was at a "meeting" the other day and Big Agnes stood up and said,
"My name is Agnes and I am an alcoholic. As some of you know I used to be called Roger, back when I was in the Scots Guards. Back then I drank because I couldn't face the fact that I was Agnes trapped in a Regimental Sergeant Major's body. Since the surgery I have been sober for seven years and have even formed a long distance relationship with a Welsh pen-pal. He says when I go down in the valleys I'll be "feeling  Gwlad all over" as the old song has it. But I digress. I have found that my job advising scruffy straight men with their grooming problems has helped keep me off the sauce,my sense of  self-worth rockets every time I see my blonde locks and perma- tanned complexion beside their peely-wally pusses. However, recently a group of Chippendale, gym bunny types have started frequenting my counter. I feel like Nicola Sturgeon's body double stood beside them. In no time at all my sense of my own femininity was destroyed and I was back pouring Kahlua on my Cornflakes (thanks Schiz). "

There was more, but that's how come I'm on first name terms with the woman who's on first name terms with...You get it.

Actually, Thunderthighs, there does seem to be a distinctly sexual subtext to Gwlad's trolling. (But I'll leave it to our own 606 Niles Crane lookalike (the Brumeister) to explain what could possibly be behind(oo-er) that.)
May I suggest that from now on the standard response to anything from Gwlad is (Gladys?)
"What's up Honey? Has Agnes left you for another man?"

p.s. On the subject of "Feeling Gwlad all over" I believe the original was recorded in the 1960's by a beat combo called The Easybeats. After the Scotland -Wales match at Murrayfield there was a cover version recorded by Fatboy Gats and The Easybeats.

jimbopip wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Thunderthighs, welcome to the house of fun (except when Gwlad is pissing on the sandwiches).
Yes I am a proud product of Cowcaddens and yes Glasgow Warriors are the 1872 Cup holders.
Apart from a recent blip, mainly due to over confidence/contempt, it has been an annual slaughter. I love the way AdminBoy didn't even try to deny that The MFL are over so slightly effeminate but rather  attempted an Orwellian "Denton, early SHC era" whitewash. He's fooling no-one. Least of all big Agnes on the Men's Grooming counter at Jenners who's on first name terms with most of the first team squad.
Not that it counts for anything, but I like the way you express yourself and it would be a shame if you don't become a regular here. I'm sure Bru would love to hear your opinion on Moneyball versus Last Of The Mohicans as the best film of all time.

Is there not a certain amount of irony here, you're calling out the Edinburgh players for being on first name terms with a lady who you know the first name of.....

EWT,

Actually I was at a "meeting" the other day and Big Agnes stood up and said,
"My name is Agnes and I am an alcoholic. As some of you know I used to be called Roger, back when I was in the Scots Guards. Back then I drank because I couldn't face the fact that I was Agnes trapped in a Regimental Sergeant Major's body. Since the surgery I have been sober for seven years and have even formed a long distance relationship with a Welsh pen-pal. He says when I go down in the valleys I'll be "feeling  Gwlad all over" as the old song has it. But I digress. I have found that my job advising scruffy straight men with their grooming problems has helped keep me off the sauce,my sense of  self-worth rockets every time I see my blonde locks and perma- tanned complexion beside their peely-wally pusses. However, recently a group of Chippendale, gym bunny types have started frequenting my counter. I feel like Nicola Sturgeon's body double stood beside them. In no time at all my sense of my own femininity was destroyed and I was back pouring Kahlua on my Cornflakes (thanks Schiz). "

There was more, but that's how come I'm on first name terms with the woman who's on first name terms with...You get it.

Actually, Thunderthighs, there does seem to be a distinctly sexual subtext to Gwlad's trolling. (But I'll leave it to our own 606 Niles Crane lookalike (the Brumeister) to explain what could possibly be behind(oo-er) that.)
May I suggest that from now on the standard response to anything from Gwlad is (Gladys?)
"What's up Honey? Has Agnes left you for another man?"

p.s. On the subject of "Feeling Gwlad all over" I believe the original was recorded in the 1960's by a beat combo called The Easybeats. After the Scotland -Wales match at Murrayfield there was a cover version recorded by Fatboy Gats and The Easybeats.

Humour will always beat spite.
Actually, why do we assume it's male? As you suggest, it could easily be short for Gwladys.

I had a girlfriend at Uni with thunder thighs, terrible attention seeker.

What's up hun? Has Agnes left you for another man?

Right everyone's had their fun - can we move on before the thread is completely side tracked?

Gwlad wrote:I had a girlfriend at Uni so, so many issues lying beneath the surface in that clause. with thunder thighs, terrible attention seeker. Yes you are.

After the , "I had a girlfriend" comment everytime I see Gwlad's name I shall hear Roxy Music's "In Every Dreamhome A heartache."

After the "at Uni" I shall always read Gwlad's posts hearing Peter Cook's "Icould have gone to university, I could have been a High court judge, if it hadn't been for the Latin."

Well it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all, as they say...

On a more serious note. Who could ever have envisaged Tonks getting more international caps?

Scotland 7's came back from 21-0 to beat the All Blacks 21-24. apparently the Blackness had 8 players on the pitch at one point.



Speechless

No-one and I do mean no-one beats Scotland 39 times in a row!

We're in the final!

I missed the game because none of my usual streams worked - if someone could PM me one for the final that would be super!

So, having watched it now, with Jack Cuthbert and Glen Bryce on the pitch we beat New Zealand.

BigGee wrote:No-one and I do mean no-one beats Scotland 39 times in a row!

anyone got a link for the 7s?

I have a link - who wants it?

Joubert the ref...

Joubert's ruck penalties against us are unfathomable

Yah beautie, yah beezer, what a brammer

and other couthie expressions from my youth.

we won, we won.

Yeeeeees!

What kind of engine has George Horne got, going forward or backward and speed to go with it. He really could be some special kind of player. I can't wait to see him playing for Glasgow next season.

That. Was awesome.

Lovely work from the 7's boys. Didn't catch it but will be on the hunt for highlights.

Was Jack Cuthbert the star of the show?

All the squad played their part - Bryce and Cuthbert weren't our key players but did well when they came on.

Robertson, Horne and Fleming were the real stars with White, Farndale and Fife putting in good shifts too.

George Horne is electric.

RDW_Scotland wrote:All the squad played their part - Bryce and Cuthbert weren't our key players but did well when they came on.

Robertson, Horne and Fleming  were the real stars with White, Farndale and Fife putting in good shifts too.

George Horne is electric.

Is Horne not a scrum half at 15-a-side?

jimbopip wrote:Yah beautie, yah beezer, what a brammer

and other couthie expressions from my youth.

we won, we won.

not bad at all considering the SRU were planning on ditching the 7s team a while back!

Yep - he's a 9. Will keep fringe defences honest!

Well he'll be an interesting addition to the Glasgow stable of 9s. Ali Price is a pretty handy and exciting player, and Pyrgos has good game management skills. He's got two good role models to learn from, and his brother at 10/12.

Obviously we'd have welcomed such an exciting young scrum half at Edinburgh, but we have Nathan Fowles.....

With Archie Russell playing 13 at U20 level, we have the prospect of a Glasgow/Scotland backline of Horne-Russell-Horne-Russell...

IanBru wrote:With Archie Russell playing 13 at U20 level, we have the prospect of a Glasgow/Scotland backline of Horne-Russell-Horne-Russell...

It would be a skillful yet tiny backline!

I've been very impressed with Horne Jnr, for my money he has been one of the standout players on the 7's circuit since his introduction, and his brief cameo for Glasgow (against Connacht?) was also mightily impressive. I think he will be pushing Price/Pyrgos very hard next season.

Remains to be seen how good Horne's game management and tactical kicking is but he's certainly got great attributes for a 9.

With Horne Jnr showing promise then would a reshuffle be required with the 9s?

With Frodo moving to Clermont (apparently on big bucks too) he's surely going to be the incumbent 9 for Scotland leading up to the next World cup at least.

This means even during international windows, Horne will be fighting it out with Pyrgos for game time at Glasgow. With Price being away with Scotland also.

I'm not writing Sam H-C off yet but wouldn't it make more sense to have one of Horne, Pyrgos or Price move to Edinburgh next season?

SHC, Kennedy and Fowles have all signed new deals with Edinburgh so can't see any movement happening!

I also don't think it is guaranteed that Laidlaw will be playing much longer for Scotland - Townsend knows more than anyone what it is like to be resigned to the international scrapheap but on the basis that laidlaw will be 34 at the next world cup he's got a big decision to make on who his first choice 9 will be.

Laidlaw has been a great servant but I don't think it should be him.

Just because someone is old, doesn't mean they aren't good enough.

I think we have to wait and see how Laidlaw gets on at Clermont. The top 14 is a massive change in physicality from the PREM.

Just because he's getting older, I don't think is a reason to jettison Laidlaw. Having him start and bringing Price on is a great way to change the dynamic of a match.

Although I can't see Laidlaw muscling Barclay out of the Scottish captaincy, especially after his terrific performance against Leinster.

It's not because he is old it is because his style of play doesn't suit the Townsend way, and as he gets older he'll get even slower.

It is probably a long shot that he'll still be our first choice 9 by the next world cup and if we keep playing him for the next 2 years it will take gametime away from the other players who will be first choice by then.

It is difficult to say this as Laidlaw's been a great servant but you've got to make tough decisions in pro sport!

It will be one of Toonie's first big decisions, and an indication of the direction of his Scotland team.

Despite having been critical of aspects of Laidlaw's game, I think he brings a steadiness to the Scotland backline, and dare I say it, some Kellockian leadership. It's one of those intangibles, but I doubt our Twickenham humiliation would have been quite as extreme if he was wearing the 9 jersey.

EST wrote:It will be one of Toonie's first big decisions, and an indication of the direction of his Scotland team.

Despite having been critical of aspects of Laidlaw's game, I think he brings a steadiness to the Scotland backline, and dare I say it, some Kellockian leadership.  It's one of those intangibles, but I doubt our Twickenham humiliation would have been quite as extreme if he was wearing the 9 jersey.  

I fully agree, and that's not a slight on Price who could only really watch as his pack was dicked down at the cabbage patch. However I do think Laidlaw would have brought some composure and calmness that probably would have seen us shipping 30 points as opposed to 60.

I would like to see Laidlaw transition to a bench role. I think he is perfect for a close game to come on in the last 20 and take the pressure off Russell as he tires or off the back-up 10 with his boot (Jackson (whose main weakness is kicking off the tee) or Hastings). Price starts for the moment.

Horne has to prove himself at 15s before we start transitioning people to Edinburgh. I did moot Kennedy for Pyrgos as a decent swap but this is not on the SRU's radar. Price and Pyrgos are likely to spend considerable time in Scotland camps over November and Feb/March so Horne will get his chance against Hart (a candidate for the 7s).

EST wrote:It will be one of Toonie's first big decisions, and an indication of the direction of his Scotland team.

Despite having been critical of aspects of Laidlaw's game, I think he brings a steadiness to the Scotland backline, and dare I say it, some Kellockian leadership.  It's one of those intangibles, but I doubt our Twickenham humiliation would have been quite as extreme if he was wearing the 9 jersey.  

Don't you mean real leadership??

funnyExiledScot wrote:

EST wrote:It will be one of Toonie's first big decisions, and an indication of the direction of his Scotland team.

Despite having been critical of aspects of Laidlaw's game, I think he brings a steadiness to the Scotland backline, and dare I say it, some Kellockian leadership.  It's one of those intangibles, but I doubt our Twickenham humiliation would have been quite as extreme if he was wearing the 9 jersey.  

Don't you mean real leadership??

In many ways, Laidlaw and Kellock are quite similar. They both spend a lot of time standing beside rucks, pointing and waving their arms about.

Gray & Hidalgo-Clyne out of tour; Kennedy in :

http://thescotlandteam.com/2017/05/22/gray-and-hidalgo-clyne-ruled-out-of-scotland-tour/

demosthenes wrote:Gray & Hidalgo-Clyne out of tour; Kennedy in :

http://thescotlandteam.com/2017/05/22/gray-and-hidalgo-clyne-ruled-out-of-scotland-tour/

Got to be Toolis' time to shine surely?

We won't learn anything from having Tim and Jonny packing together so it's got to be Jonny and Toolis starting now???