Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 16 - Good Luck, We're All Counting On You

[IanBru]

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Edinburgh & Glasgow Warriors

A Not So Brief History of Time-Wasting:

Guinness Pro12

Guinness Pro12 Website
Edinburgh Rugby (Pro12 Website)
Glasgow Warriors (Pro12 Website)
Guinness Pro12 2016/17 Overview (Ultimate Rugby)

Playlist of all of Edinburgh's Pro12 highlights here.
Playlist of all of Glasgow's Pro12 highlights here.

Europe

European Rugby Website

CHAMPIONS CUP
QUARTER FINAL
SARACENS v GLASGOW WARRIORS
Sun, Apr 2, 13:00, Allianz Park

CHALLENGE CUP
QUARTER FINAL
EDINBURGH v LA ROCHELLE
Fri, March 31, 19:00, Murrayfield Stadium


"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."

[RDW]

So the Treviso match report was finally posted on Edinburgh social media this morning but seems to have disappeared both on facebook and twitter - maybe the PR people have given up just like the players!

[EST]

So the Treviso match report was finally posted on Edinburgh social media this morning but seems to have disappeared both on facebook and twitter - maybe the PR people have given up just like the players!

If anything, the social media/PR team at Edinburgh are worse at their jobs than the players.

[RDW]

That is very true. To be fair it is probably farmed at to a part time 16 year old, or at least that's what the quality of their content would suggest.

[Hazel Sapling]

Not even Malcolm Tucker would be able to spin that result. Edinburgh need to do a Glasgow. Play the guys who have not had a chance to see who is worth keeping (if anyone is at this point)

McCallum, Hunter, Berghan, Carmichael, Bresler (C), Mata, Watson, Bradbury (is he fit? if not Mata at 8 with Ritchie at 6)
SHC, Weir, Helu (if fit, if not Brown), Burleigh, Ras, Hoyland, Scholes

Cochrane, Cosgrove, whatever prop is left, Toolis, Ritchie (if starting, Fihaki), Kennedy, Tovey, Bryce

CDP and Gilchrist should be wrapped in cotton wool until the Glasgow game unless Edinburgh play well next game. Need to find out if Ras can play effectively outside Burleigh if he can't play 12 and Scholes deserves a run as starting full back to show why he was a coup at the start of the season. Dean could do with being given the rest of the season off as he has played a lot (underservingly). There is a real lack of options at 12 behind Burleigh and Dean if Ras can't play there.

[furra_linee]

Edinburgh PR should steer clear of Scott Hastings. He clearly fancies himself as a bit of a raconteur. He's the Arthur Daley of Banter Merchants.

I remember him describing the Commonwealth Games prizes at Ibrox as "Gold Silver, and Brown".

Now I'm not saying I'd do much better as a commentator - I'm terrible with names in real time which can make things very tricky in the workplace - but he doesn't do too much to inspire faith in the long-term consequences of head injuries.

[furra_linee]

And I'm not seriously suggesting that Edinburgh Rugby should be moved out of the city.

I'm glad they're out of the National Stadium and into a place they can settle into more, much as I would be for any rootless young prodigal. I think that stadiums in general are an overlooked intangible factor on performance.
If Glasgow can succeed in the *relatively* leafy surrounds of Scotstoun (I used to live on Dumbarton Road, Scotstoun) then Edinburgh can do the same in Colinton/Merchiston, (also used to live on Colinton Road!)

[Nematode]

The big issue for Edinburgh is that their style of play is just the wrong fit.

The key players (when fit/in form) are Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Second Row, Watson, Bradbury, Du Preez and SHC, which really suits a forward dominated game plan.

In the past, with NdL, Scott, Visser, Rennie and Laidlaw Edinburgh could really attack well. They just don't have that ability now.

The sooner Edinburgh switches from copying Glasgow to being more forward orientated, the better.

[RDW]

The big issue for Edinburgh is that their style of play is just the wrong fit.

The key players (when fit/in form) are Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Second Row, Watson, Bradbury, Du Preez and SHC, which really suits a forward dominated game plan.

In the past, with NdL, Scott, Visser, Rennie and Laidlaw Edinburgh could really attack well. They just don't have that ability now.

The sooner Edinburgh switches from copying Glasgow to being more forward orientated, the better.

Problem is that's what we did with Solomons and look where that got us! Forward power is the starting point for any team but we can't forgot about the backs like Solomons did.

[RDW]

Lots of 'leaked' Lions squads coming out with very little mention of any Scottish players - again I'm expecting no more than 3 or 4 players, with another 1 or 2 being called up as injury cover over the tour.

[tigertattie]

It's highly possible that only Hogg will be named to tour

Dicko and nel could have gone but injuries

Either Gray could have gone, with Jonny first shout but 2nd row is tough right now in the NH

Afraid Russell is still too inconsistent to be a contender

Worthy of a call up are Watson, Seymour and one of Visser or Maitland, but they don't play for Wales so will probably be overlooked

laidlaw could yet be in with a shout to tour as a midweek captain

[EST]

I expect Hogg and one of Maitland/Seymour will travel, with Watson as an outside bet.  I personally think the Jonny Gray has played himself out of a spot, given the quality of competition, and that Ford/Bigger will go over Russell, who has shown his current limitations against England and Sarries. 

To be honest, If I were picking the squad as objectively as possible, I wouldn't have too many more of our lads in the touring party - I think 5 would be a fair reflection of where we are.

[BigGee]

I don't think there is going to be to much for us to be getting excited about tomorrow. We had some players that are deserving of selection this time around and I don't think they will be given a fair chance. No-one was expecting us to make up any sizeable contingent, but it is meant to be a British and Irish Lions squad!

On the form of Wales over the past year, it is hard to see how you could justify 10 Welsh players getting picked as is being predicted!

[EST]

I don't think there is going to be to much for us to be getting excited about tomorrow. We had some players that are deserving of selection this time around and I don't think they will be given a fair chance. No-one was expecting us to make up any sizeable contingent, but it is meant to be a British and Irish Lions squad!

On the form of Wales over the past year, it is hard to see how you could justify 10 Welsh players getting picked as is being predicted!

I'd agree that there is little to justify the likes of Roberts, Halfpenny or Biggar going. It's unfortunate that in areas of strength for us, our reps are either injured (Nel/Jones), or the Lions have very strong options (2/4/5/7/10). 

I'm afraid the England games will have been the deciding factor in many of the 50/50's.

[tigertattie]

It's a real shame as I think the Lions rugby brand is being destroyed.

Sir Clive of Woodward started it and now that dunderhead Gatland has taken over the mantle!

I still maintain that a neutral couch needs to be selected for the Lions. Jake White, Nick Mallet, etc. I'd even go as far as saying that someone who once coached on of the home nations like Andy Robinson or Sir Woodward could be considered now, but a current home nations coach, or one who has left as a coach in the last two or three years shouldn't be picked as head coach!

[EST]

It's a real shame as I think the Lions rugby brand is being destroyed.

Sir Clive of Woodward started it and now that dunderhead Gatland has taken over the mantle!

I still maintain that a neutral couch needs to be selected for the Lions. Jake White, Nick Mallet, etc. I'd even go as far as saying that someone who once coached on of the home nations like Andy Robinson or Sir Woodward could be considered now, but a current home nations coach, or one who has left as a coach in the last two or three years shouldn't be picked as head coach!

I love the lions, but I do think the governance needs some sort of reform - I wouldn't go down the quota route, but you are right, something needs to be done regarding how coaching appointments are made, to make it as fair and balanced as possible.

For all the fuss that has been made regarding the squad, fundamentally it doesn't really matter. Whoever devised the touring schedule has seen to that. It has made a hugely difficult task, all but impossible - it's a completely bonkers arrangement.

[R!skysports]

All you soap dodgers should stop pishing on Edinburgh while we're on fire! (as in the club is burning in flames, not that we're on a hot streak of form)

Why?

1. It's not very sporting
2. We don't even deserve to be pished on!

But seriously though, it's because Edinburgh have been so dire that Glasgow are going to miss out on the play offs! If Edinburgh were doing better in the league then maybe, just maybe, Glasgow wouldn't be having to give up quite as many players in the international windows. In previous years you've been able to fall back on your imports like Naka and Niko to hold things steady while a chunk of your squad is away with Scotland.

Now that you don't have as many imports to hold you up and that fact that even more of your players have been on Scotland duties, you've struggled to compete with your less established players!

For the sake of Glasgow's future success, you really should be hoping Edinburgh get fixed soon!

We do, we really do

It is not fun anymore. We want to have 2 teams battling it out and pushing players on. This will increase the recognition of Rugby in Scotland AND increase the number of players good enough to play for Scotland

At the moment, there are a number of Edinburgh players that I think should just be cut loose - some of the big names included.

They are damaged goods now and have had chances enough

The one unforgivable thing in my book, is not giving it your all (or even trying). You may be a limited player, but your heart can make you great.

[tigertattie]

Wonder if Shlong fancies a shot at some sort of coaching capacity at Edinburgh?

He's the epitome of a limited player bursting his lungs to do what he can for the shirt on his back!

[George Carlin]

Anyone want to start a thread about the summer tour?

Gets me to focus on something other than this bloody Lions non-annoucement about picking a number of Welsh octagenarians who travel to NZ to get massacred by provincial sides.

[EWT Spoons]

With Edinburgh I’m not totally sure it’s a lack of effort, I think it’s primarily down to them having no clue what is being asked of them & poor quality in key positions.

At 9 & 10 Edinburgh are really struggling just now, SHC is a shadow of his former self, Fowles is an ok player but not great and has been overlooked/injured (really hard to tell with Edinburgh’s non existent fan engagement) in recent weeks.  Kennedy has struggled for form ever since he came back to Edinburgh.

At 10 Weir is terrible, no ifs or buts, flat out terrible.  It still amazes me folk on the Edinburgh forum saying how good he is, because I’ve seen nothing to support this view.  Tovey is no better, he offers more of a running game, but it’s limited to him running and then c*cking up.  This could be due to him not having support, but this comes back to the players not knowing what they should be doing.

Given at these 2 positions we struggle then everything after the forwards is in trouble/non existent, as they generally don’t see the ball unless it’s watching the opposition carry it or kick it back.

In terms of  moves/play/general clue as to what they do with the ball, it just doesn’t seem to exist.  It’s similar to how a former international described playing under Andy Robinson, basically there was no gameplan or attack moves, and it seems Hodge has followed this path.

Players can work themselves into the ground, but if they don’t know how they should be lining up or where they should be in attack/defence then they are going to get split open time and again, and mess up when they attack.  This comes down to coaching and leadership, neither of which Edinburgh seem to have at the moment.  If there is no gameplan then the captain should be getting the players around him and organising them or at least making sure they all defend/attack in the same way, but our two club captains can’t get into the team currently.

I’m not totally ruling out the players not working hard enough, but they need to be working hard in the right way, rather than just for the sake of it.

[EWT Spoons]

Anyone want to start a thread about the summer tour?

Gets me to focus on something other than this bloody Lions non-annoucement about picking a number of Welsh octagenarians who travel to NZ to get massacred by provincial sides.

I think there already is one GC

https://www.606v2.com/t65382p100-scotland-2017-6n-debrief-and-lions-summer-tour-lookahead#3546249

[tigertattie]

Anyone want to start a thread about the summer tour?

Gets me to focus on something other than this bloody Lions non-annoucement about picking a number of Welsh octagenarians who travel to NZ to get massacred by provincial sides.

I think there already is one GC

https://www.606v2.com/t65382p100-scotland-2017-6n-debrief-and-lions-summer-tour-lookahead#3546249

We could make a new one

"Scotland (including many players who should be away with the Lions but aren't because Warran Gatland loves his Welsh chums too much to leave them behind) Tour to down under - Tour and match discussion thread to keep Mini Modder distracted from the utter pish being spouted in relation to the Lions sqaud"

[EST]

Big Brian has signed on at Glasgow for another two years - what a signing.

[BigGee]

Big Brian has signed on at Glasgow for another two years - what a signing.

At least one bit of good news today!

[EST]

Big Brian has signed on at Glasgow for another two years - what a signing.

At least one bit of good news today!

Very true.  I really think he could turn into a very special player with the Warriors - there are not many blokes with his athleticism, size and work rate.

[tigertattie]

Big Brian has signed on at Glasgow for another two years - what a signing.

At least one bit of good news today!

Very true.  I really think he could turn into a very special player with the Warriors - there are not many blokes with his athleticism, size and work rate.

If only he had the skillz of Big Al

[EST]

Big Brian has signed on at Glasgow for another two years - what a signing.

At least one bit of good news today!

Very true.  I really think he could turn into a very special player with the Warriors - there are not many blokes with his athleticism, size and work rate.

If only he had the skillz of Big Al

Big Al's skills can be acquired, through diligent ruck pointing sessions.

[jimbopip]

Big Brian has signed on at Glasgow for another two years - what a signing.

At least one bit of good news today!

Very true.  I really think he could turn into a very special player with the Warriors - there are not many blokes with his athleticism, size and work rate.

If only he had the skillz of Big Al

Big Al's skills can be acquired, through diligent ruck pointing sessions.

Look, don't get me started...I've just had a training day and at exactly 8:54am Bloom's Taxonomy was on the whiteboard. And yes, it was being pointed at by a little red dot.

Bri may become the outstanding second row we think he will be, he may even learn a great deal about being a "real" rugby player from Cap'n Kellock (just like Jonny did) but I will bet Bru's stones that he will never be overheard discussing the efficacy of men's moisturising products. So no move east for him, ever.

p.s. In a quote which will endear him even more to the Warrior Nation The Legend That Is said, "I have looked up the flights to Italy but I just can't bring myself to book them!"
As you know I love the deliberate and subtle use of ambiguity and I feel this could be read two ways; either he can't bear the thought of leaving the once and future champions OR he's like Schiz in a pub; he's seen the price list but can't bear the idea of cracking open the wallet.

[funnyExiledScot]

It's a good deal re-signing Big Brian. He works well with Jonny Gray/Tim Swinson and seems to have settled nicely at The Warriors.

I was away in Morayshire over the weekend and had ignored the rugby results. I should do that more often.

Did anyone see/listen to the Treviso game? This is the match report below:

A hardy, physical Treviso side proved too strong for Edinburgh tonight in north Italy, securing a 21-6 victory at Stadio di Monigo.

Tries from Robert Barbieri and Angelo Esposito gave the Italians a solid platform to build, with stand-off Ian McKinley proving exceptional with the boot and adding a further 11 points from the kicking-tee.

Edinburgh’s points came from the boot of McKinley’s opposite number, Jason Tovey, who kicked two penalties for six points.

The loss for Hodge’s charges sees them retain ninth spot in the table. However Dragons and tonight’s opposition, Treviso, have closed the gap in the standings and now trail Edinburgh by two and four points respectively going into the penultimate round of championship fixtures.

Edinburgh dominated possession in the opening exchanges, but found it difficult to break down a resolute home defence.

Damien Hoyland came close to making the breakthrough on 24 minutes, collecting the ball in the backfield and making a scintillating break through the guts of the opposition, only to be brought down metres from the line.

His efforts, however, were rewarded as Treviso were penalised at the next phase and Tovey slotted the kick to put Edinburgh ahead (0-3).

McKinley provided his side’s reply with a successful penalty just two minutes later, before putting the Italian outfit ahead with another strike from the tee on the half-hour mark (3-6).

With momentum in their favour, the home-side started to crank up the pressure on their visitors as the interval approached.

A series of scrum penalties on Edinburgh’s line eventually provided the home-side the platform to score the first try of the game on 35 minutes, with number eight Robert Barbieri picking the ball from the back of the scrum and pouncing over the whitewash. McKinley made no mistake with the conversion to give his side a 13-3 lead.

HALF-TIME | Treviso 13 – 3 Edinburgh Rugby

McKinley maintained his 100% kicking record as he slotted a further penalty immediately after the break (16-3).

Edinburgh rallied in the following ten minutes, building possession within metres of the opposition line. A Phil Burleigh break nearly resulted in a try, yet the final offload to the supporting Glenn Bryce was intercepted bringing an abrupt end to the promising attack.

Edinburgh were awarded a penalty at the subsequent phased and Tovey duly kicked his second penalty of the game to close the gap to 10-points in the favour of the home side.

The half-back’s effort was soon nulled, however, as Treviso’s reply came through a well-worked team try, which was finished out wide by wing Esposito. McKinley failed to convert as the game entered the final quarter (21-6).

Both sides had attacking chances as the game became fraught, yet neither were able to capitalise on possession as the error count continued to rise.

The referee, Frank Murphy, referred two Treviso touchdowns to the TMO in the final ten minutes, both of which were disallowed; initially for a lack of grounding and secondly for a forward pass in the build-up to the player crossing the whitewash.

FULL-TIME | Treviso 21 – 6 Edinburgh Rugby

[funnyExiledScot]

I'm disappointed that the match report didn't include the following words:

- abject
- useless
- pathetic
- directionless
- excrement

[EWT Spoons]

Edinburgh's social media team living up to expectations, only 6 days after the BBC, they have finally announced manu is leaving. What is the [Insert swear word here] point!

[George Carlin]

Telegraph is leading with the fact that Gatland is taking 40 players and Hogg is the only Scot. Be honest with me. I'm not turning into some spoiled old hippy, but that is absolutely ridiculous isn't it?

A bunch of Welsh has-beens on a ludicrous touring schedule against an upsurgent and rock solid NZ rugby nation whose Chiefs B team spanked the Wales national side less than a year ago. How can that possibly go well?

[RDW]

It would be utterly ridiculous.

The one that annoys me the most is Keith Earls - what the feck has he done to justify selection??

[BigGee]

It is beyond ridiculous. If that is true then Gatland has totally trashed the Lions brand and the only positive thing that has come out of this is that this will surely be his last involvement. The brand may never recover though.

Hard to see how any Scottish fan could really get behind a squad like this. It is going to be a bit like me and English football. I am not going to be cheering for them to lose, but I won't be one bit bothered if they do!

[RDW]

Needless to say there is a near certainty that we're going to be disappointed with the selection - I suspect the Lions thread will be a no-go zone for Scots (unless you're very brave) so feel free to use this thread as a safe sanctuary to vent.

[MacKnocked-on]

Could be some pretty morale destroying results on this tour, imagine playing outside Roberts and Davies for example? As any token Scots who do get selected will probably be regarded as dirt-trackers by Gatland (Hogg probably behind Halfpenny in his thinking) perhaps in retrospect missing out won't be the worst thing that could happen.

[tigertattie]

some mates have suggested that if Hogg is the only Scot selected that he should decline to go and stick with his buddies in the Scotland squad!

Would you turn down a lions spot in principle?

[RDW]

I'm trying my best on the Lions thread but there is only so much patience I can have...

[IanBru]

Needless to say there is a near certainty that we're going to be disappointed with the selection - I suspect the Lions thread will be a no-go zone for Scots (unless you're very brave) so feel free to use this thread as a safe sanctuary to vent.

Oh believe me, I'll be venting like Mount St Helens come 12 o'clock.

[RuggerRadge2611]

1 tourist?

Surely not, I've seen WUM teams on here with more balance.

He sat in the stands at Murrayfield and watched Scotland beat ireland and Wales!!!!

[EST]

If we only get one Scot as part of an enlarged touring squad, then I will really struggle to get behind the team.

[RuggerRadge2611]

If we only get one Scot as part of an enlarged touring squad, then I will really struggle to get behind the team.  

I seriously believe if Hogg is the only one selected he'll reject the call, tour with Scotland and it will actually be the death of the lions as a concept.

[RDW]

OK I'm done with that thread

Radge - I'll leave you to it!

[RuggerRadge2611]

OK I'm done with that thread

Radge - I'll leave you to it!

Despite being a former tighthead I don't have the stomach for it. I'll leave it untill the squad is announced, if we have more than one tourist I'll comment if not I really couldn't care less.

[EST]

I've posted a couple of times, but i'm not sure of the point. We are the most realistic bunch on this forum, but this 1/40 nonsense is too much. It's a farce if true, and I won't be paying much attention to the tour if it turns out to be the case.

[EWT Spoons]

I'm giving the whole thing a wide berth, I fully expected us to have very little representation, ever since Gatland came out saying that without a scottish coach we would struggle. I mean it's not like he has eyes or could see for himself how players are playing.

I'm happier with our players going to Oz with Townsend, keep building as a squad.

[tigertattie]

Will anyone care if Scots fans turn away from the Lions?

no!

Will they care if the Irish turn away from it?

Not really!

They only care that the population of England get behind it as that's where the numbers are for sponsorship!

Deep down, no one would really care if Wales turned away from it, but because the Welsh have a weird grip over rugby in the media, they make enough noise to make sure that they are at least given consideration.

#TheLionsCoachShouldBeNeutral

[EST]

I am a believer in the concept of the Lions in the modern era, but if the squad suggested was picked, it would stretch that faith.

I wonder if we will see are response from the SRU today, if only Hogg is selected?

[RuggerRadge2611]

Forget the SRU response, how would Hogg feel? Being the only player from Scotland to tour?!!

#Awkward

[EST]

I just wonder if they will ban player call ups, so that Toonie can have his whole squad together? It would obviously set a precedent, and may be be unpopular with their own players. I suppose it depends on how annoyed the players are with this.

[EST]

But yes, I wonder how Hogg will feel. Might he come out and say something? I just feel that if this is the party chosen, there will be a backlash of sorts.

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