Solomona declares allegiance to England

First topic message reminder :

Sale star Denny Solomona has declared that he wants to represent England after he completed his 3 years of residency.

This doesn't sit well with me, just months after saying

“But my heart’s not here, it’s not for England. I play in Super League but my heart is for New Zealand and Samoa and that’s who I’ll be representing if they ask. I’d love to represent Samoa while my grandparents are alive, it would mean a lot to do that, but it would be good if New Zealand came calling. I would be open to any option.”

Not an England bashing thread, but it's one of the strongest examples of why the residency, and cross code representation needs looking at ASAP.

Gwlad wrote:i dont get it

England are just doing what they bitched and moaned at NZ for years about, whats the problem?

Pro rugby is a business. Its not about being born in the country you play for its about how much wedgeola you can stuff up your shirt while you can. NZ have been importing their stars for ages and we all knew it, now England are just doing the same thing in their bid to become No 1. They broke their rule about foreign coaches and now they're bringing in Mercs and badging them with the Red Rose, everyone's a winner especially the game and 'England' right

We do try and ensure that our Kiwis are properly qualified though. There are certain standards to uphold.

majesticimperialman wrote:Just because he was born in NZ and played for Samoa in rugby league. and as done 3 years residency does not mean he will walk in to the England rugby team/squad/


Eddie Jones will wan't to make sure that he proves himself ( plays better )  than any other winger that England all ready have.

 Jones/Gatland  would be mad not to select him, He's the best wing in the UK let alone England. he may not come cheap though.

SecretFly wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Just because he was born in NZ and played for Samoa in rugby league. and as done 3 years residency does not mean he will walk in to the England rugby team/squad/

...

Though given past precedents it's the way to bet

Are you suggesting he'll jog in rather than walk?

Neither. He'll be carried head high with rose petals strewn about his feet and given a company chariot….. someone has obviously already got to him after his remarks about playing for Samoa

No mate, become English, literally everyone's doing it these days.

Gwlad, its ok bud, I know you have to watch Cuthbert line up for Wales but you don't have to take it out on England being able to select a better class of winger

Gwlad wrote: become English, literally everyone's doing it these days.

Please dont

Gwlad wrote:i dont get it

England are just doing what they bitched and moaned at NZ for years about, whats the problem?

Pro rugby is a business. Its not about being born in the country you play for its about how much wedgeola you can stuff up your shirt while you can. NZ have been importing their stars for ages and we all knew it, now England are just doing the same thing in their bid to become No 1. They broke their rule about foreign coaches and now they're bringing in Mercs and badging them with the Red Rose, everyone's a winner especially the game and 'England' right

I generally don't mind blokes who aren't good enough for NZ heading off to play for someone else (Payne, Ascombe, Maitland, ...). It reinforces my belief in the superiority of our development system (and the benefits of having a quarter of a million ethnic Pacific Islanders living in South Auckland   ). And it means that talentless hack Stephen Jones of the Times has to come up with a new line to hate on NZ rugby

Did solomona get any pro games in either rugby in nz or was his education in Britain?

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Gwlad wrote:i dont get it

England are just doing what they bitched and moaned at NZ for years about, whats the problem?

Pro rugby is a business. Its not about being born in the country you play for its about how much wedgeola you can stuff up your shirt while you can. NZ have been importing their stars for ages and we all knew it, now England are just doing the same thing in their bid to become No 1. They broke their rule about foreign coaches and now they're bringing in Mercs and badging them with the Red Rose, everyone's a winner especially the game and 'England' right

I generally don't mind blokes who aren't good enough for NZ heading off to play for someone else (Payne, Ascombe, Maitland, ...). It reinforces my belief in the superiority of our development system (and the benefits of having a quarter of a million ethnic Pacific Islanders living in South Auckland   ). And it means that talentless hack Stephen Jones of the Times has to come up with a new line to hate on NZ rugby

They are good enough, they just aren't good enough to compete with your PI import system

No 7&1/2 wrote:Did solomona get any pro games in either rugby in nz or was his education in Britain?

He played for the first XV at St Peter's College Auckland (the school has also produced 8 All Blacks), then went into the Melbourne Storm's (NRL) academy, & spent a year in their senior squad before being cut and moving to London Broncos

So no then.

The simple fact on nz players coming to the UK is that if they state any (PI) allegiance other than for the ABs then securing a professional contract is unlikely.

AP clubs that choose to subsequently hire these players don't do so in the hope they qualify for England - it is probably the exact opposite.

The five year rule has been held up for far too long by the usual suspects and World Rugby has missed an opportunity to scrap the grandparents qualification as well.

No idea if the player in question will be selected but if he is then it will be on merit and within the current rules, such as they are.
Project players are a completely different (and cynical) scenario.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So no then.

 He would have been under a professional contract with the Storm, so yes then

Recwatcher16 wrote:

The five year rule has been held up for far too long by the usual suspects and World Rugby has missed an opportunity to scrap the grandparents qualification as well.

No idea if the player in question will be selected but if he is then it will be on merit and within the current rules, such as they are.
Project players are a completely different (and cynical) scenario.

Yes, we're back to the myth of RFU never talking with PRL behind the scenes and not having mutual benefits in such informal conversations to discuss All things pertinent to Club needs and Union needs.

So ideally how long should the term be, Rec?

Nah Laurie had to come here to get those pro games and contract. It'll happen more and more with the lack of money over there. Youre basically our feeder nation now. Or samoa is ours now seeing as out of the choice of 3 nations he's turned you down twice.

SecretFly wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:

The five year rule has been held up for far too long by the usual suspects and World Rugby has missed an opportunity to scrap the grandparents qualification as well.

No idea if the player in question will be selected but if he is then it will be on merit and within the current rules, such as they are.
Project players are a completely different (and cynical) scenario.

Yes, we're back to the myth of RFU never talking with PRL behind the scenes and not having mutual benefits in such informal conversations to discuss All things pertinent to Club needs and Union needs.

So ideally how long should the term be, Rec?

Are you suggesting Sale were told by the RFU to hire this player ??
Five years should be the minimum - wouldn't object if it was higher.
I suppose if it was higher term that might actually benefit other nations. AP clubs will still hire players based on merit - obviously as opposed to Pro12 Union owned sides.

Recwatcher16 wrote:


Are you suggesting Sale were told by the RFU to hire this player ??
Five years should be the minimum - wouldn't object if it was higher.
I suppose if it was higher term that might actually benefit other nations. AP clubs will still hire players based on merit - obviously as opposed to Pro12 Union owned sides.

I'm suggesting English Club rugby and English Union (RFU) have a mutual interest in making each other successful. So they'll chat about everything - Everything. You seem to keep suggesting they don't even have each other's phone numbers

Five years or higher? Okay... so five years isn't so bad after all. It's a start at least. The usual suspects will be happy.

And Pro12 have never hired players based solely on merit? The foreign lads who never qualified for project player status will be disappointed their merit has been unappreciated.

I have no idea who talks to who and have not suggested otherwise but your conspiracy theory is weak to say the least.
Ha - their merit is based on a willingness to be a project player but by all means keep twisting the logic.

Recwatcher16 wrote:I have no idea who talks to who and have not suggested otherwise but your conspiracy theory is weak to say the least.
Ha - their merit is based on a willingness to be a project player but by all means keep twisting the logic.

It's no conspiracy theory - it's the club version and the International version of Rugby Union administration in the one Nation talking to each other - throughout the year - through any number of avenues;- phone, text, e-mail, formal meetings, informal meetings, tele-conferencing, underground secret bunkers protected by Russian trained commandos - ok the texting was a little over the top there.

I bow to your superior inside knowledge Secret.

Recwatcher16 wrote:I have no idea who talks to who and have not suggested otherwise but your conspiracy theory is weak to say the least.
Ha - their merit is based on a willingness to be a project player but by all means keep twisting the logic.

there you go, give it the conspiracy theory tag and it must be imagined when in fact the opposite is true.

Just because you aren't switched on enough to understand that 'negotiations' and 'promises' are being made constantly doesn't make it a conspiracy that it occurs.

If there was ever an Old Boys network it is in rugby, particularly amongst management and owners. Young talented and totally unqualified players enter this arena with little or no experience and advice to manage it.

Players are mere chattels and are constantly being courted by one or other interested party, until, when their usefulness as a commodity expires they end up farmed out and taking 1 year contracts where they can while their knees can still take it.

What is going on in pro rugby now, especially in the PI with their total lack of funding, is nothing more than when rugby union players left the sport to play pro in league back in the day. The market drives demand for a commodity and barriers to entry are reduced to an almost laughable extent in order to move product. England have cashed in on what NZ have been doing for years, offering a future to PI players who otherwise would have none.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah Laurie had to come here to get those pro games and contract. It'll happen more and more with the lack of money over there. Youre basically our feeder nation now. Or samoa is ours now seeing as out of the choice of 3 nations he's turned you down twice.

Strange comment

You say NZ and Samoa are basically feeder nations to England, as if with pride, but it's admitting English rugby is sub-standard and that you need to be fed with quality players to be successful. 7.5, you can have all the fake Englishmen you like because the more you take the weaker the essence of English rugby will become and it'll eventually blow up in your face.

FYI, NZ is a feeder nation to Samoa and not the other way round.

Lol. Poor wum.

ebop wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah Laurie had to come here to get those pro games and contract. It'll happen more and more with the lack of money over there. Youre basically our feeder nation now. Or samoa is ours now seeing as out of the choice of 3 nations he's turned you down twice.

Strange comment

You say NZ and Samoa are basically feeder nations to England, as if with pride, but it's admitting English rugby is sub-standard and that you need to be fed with quality players to be successful. 7.5, you can have all the fake Englishmen you like because the more you take the weaker the essence of English rugby will become and it'll eventually blow up in your face.

FYI, NZ is a feeder nation to Samoa and not the other way round.

NZ rugby exists because of the PI PLayers who formed its foundations and upon whose shoulders it now stands. (Lauaki aside that is and a bit of So'oialo)

It's not a wum 7.5, why is that your default response, is it because you don't like the truth?

Lol. You should look back on ghosts past glories much better than you

Lol, you can't handle the truth

A few good men. Ironically all you ll have left when we get our poaching properly together.

Haha

We will then be demanding Engish hakas

ebop wrote:We will then be demanding Engish hakas

Pah! We're been doing them for years. Fear us! 

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah Laurie had to come here to get those pro games and contract. It'll happen more and more with the lack of money over there. Youre basically our feeder nation now. Or samoa is ours now seeing as out of the choice of 3 nations he's turned you down twice.

 Hey its not just you guys, if we're not supplying players then  its coaches and trainers as well. soon every country will be doing a Hakas.

Are you trying to claim eddie Jones now as well?
No wonder Gatlands embaressed by your arrogance.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah Laurie had to come here to get those pro games and contract. It'll happen more and more with the lack of money over there. Youre basically our feeder nation now. Or samoa is ours now seeing as out of the choice of 3 nations he's turned you down twice.

 Hey its not just you guys, if we're not supplying players then  its coaches and trainers as well. soon every country will be doing a Hakas.

Get rid of the Haka! And Australia and Ireland's second anthem.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/26/10/2CC7A0F900000578-3249916-image-a-37_1443261143384.jpg

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/26/10/2CC7A0F900000578-3249916-image-a-37_1443261143384.jpg

What does that prove? England schools development system isnt very good if thats the best it can produce?

Hey its not just you guys, if we're not supplying players then its coaches and trainers as well. soon every country will be doing a Hakas

Ok Ok so you are bloody good at rugby - we get it.

However WE on the other hand are really good at...

Do you want some middle aged men that punch police horses?

Recwatcher16 wrote:The simple fact on nz players coming to the UK is that if they state any (PI) allegiance other than for the ABs then securing a professional contract is unlikely.

AP clubs that choose to subsequently hire these players don't do so in the hope they qualify for England - it is probably the exact opposite.

The five year rule has been held up for far too long by the usual suspects and World Rugby has missed an opportunity to scrap the grandparents qualification as well.

No idea if the player in question will be selected but if he is then it will be on merit and within the current rules, such as they are.
Project players are a completely different (and cynical) scenario.

So you object to project players and 3 year rule on moral grounds?

TrailApe wrote:

Hey its not just you guys, if we're not supplying players then  its coaches and trainers as well. soon every country will be doing a Hakas

Ok Ok so you are bloody good at rugby - we get it.

However WE on the other hand are really good at...

Do you want some middle aged men that punch police horses?

Ah Ape man....we're Geordies...the Kiwis couldn't handle us! Even Hitler feared the Geordies!

Gooseberry wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/26/10/2CC7A0F900000578-3249916-image-a-37_1443261143384.jpg

What does that prove? England schools development system isnt very good if thats the best it can produce?

Good question. I think it proves the culprit who posted it is stupid, I don't see the point myself personally, other than to bitch about Wales which is what you posters usually get up to?

All of players in the image were developed in Wales, except for Francis. Arguably Cuthbert and Ball, and arguably not as they kick started their pro careers in Wales with Welsh teams. Birth place argument is a bit petty and it only seems Englanders bring it up.

mikey_dragon wrote:Birth place argument is a bit petty and it only seems Englanders bring it up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37589853

Gooseberry wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Birth place argument is a bit petty and it only seems Englanders bring it up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37589853

"asked 1000 people" Too bad you stooped to the moron's resort. FYI, I was referring to Englanders on here. Seeing as you can't discuss the OP like adults I'll give it a go. Good examples being Denny and good old Nathan Hughes. Another being Andries Pretorious. It's cheapening international caps IMO and the qualification laws should be reviewed and then changed. Many unions are taking advantage of it and will continue to do so up until something is done, unless we're happy for the pacific islands and South Africa to run out of players and for the development of the smaller unions to be hindered. I'm sure all of this can be discussed without slagging off Wales which seems to happen on every single thread?

EDIT - is there any indication that the YouGov representatives on this occasion were Welsh? Might they have been English?

Probably cos it's easy to say everyone is willing to play to the rules barring France now and possibly England in the future.

mikey_dragon wrote:

EDIT - is there any indication that the YouGov representatives on this occasion were Welsh? Might they have been English? [/quote]

Thats a good point. The 1000 Welsh people surveyed in Wales might not have been Welsh, they were probably born somewhere else.

I guess Im too much of a moron to resort to personal insults or read the article.

Gooseberry wrote:



EDIT - is there any indication that the YouGov representatives on this occasion were Welsh? Might they have been English?

Thats a good point. The 1000 Welsh people surveyed in Wales might not have been Welsh, they were probably born somewhere else.

I guess Im too much of a moron to resort to personal insults or read the article.
[/quote]

The people working for YouGov, were they English? That might prove my point that it's you Englanders obsessing again . Maybe you should keep away from stats .

I don't disagree with your last statement.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:



EDIT - is there any indication that the YouGov representatives on this occasion were Welsh? Might they have been English?

Thats a good point. The 1000 Welsh people surveyed in Wales might not have been Welsh, they were probably born somewhere else.

I guess Im too much of a moron to resort to personal insults or read the article.

The people working for YouGov, were they English? That might prove my point that it's you Englanders obsessing again . Maybe you should keep away from stats .

I don't disagree with your last statement. [/quote]

Its true, Englanders are too stupid to even use the quote function properly.

Gooseberry wrote:

Its true, Englanders are too stupid to even use the quote function properly.

Moron's resort btw, was not an insult aimed at anyone in particular. However if you choose to utilise that resort then it's your choice.... The quote function however is vastly underutilised.

Gooseberry wrote:Are you trying to claim eddie Jones now as well?
No wonder Gatlands embaressed by your arrogance.

 Come on Goose you know that Eddie is Japanese.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Its true, Englanders are too stupid to even use the quote function properly.

I'm a moron. The quote function however is vastly underutilised.

Fair

Ah Ape man....we're Geordies...the Kiwis couldn't handle us! Even Hitler feared the Geordies!

To be fair to the wassock, the horse WAS from Leeds - and we do have history with that lot!

Gooseberry wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Its true, Englanders are too stupid to even use the quote function properly.

I'm a moron. The quote function however is vastly underutilised.

Fair

Once again you're rather stupidly not using the quote function properly.