Lions reinforcements (or why we should learn to love Roberts)

by Gwlad Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Since we're all being so nice to each other and we haven't had one for a while, i thought we needed to relieve some tension with a new Lions thread.

We know that by the 1st test there will be at least 15-20% casualties so we'll lose up to 8 players. Its likely we'll lose a couple before the squad even leaves and unlike the boyos at Rorke's Drift Gatland can call on reinforcements to swell the ranks to hold off the All Black hordes. With the club games and well documented All Black perceptions of what is and what isn't foul/dangerous play, it could get messy.

I expect the following to get the nod in this order. I've picked players who should have been in the squad, are leaders, or who are former Lions and can make an impact.

Props: Healy, Jenkins, Evans,
Props: Nel, Lee, Francis
Hookers: Hartley, Brown, Hibbard
Locks: Launchbury, Ryan, R Gray, Charteris,
Flank: Watson, Lydiate, Wobshaw
8: Heaslip, ?
9: Care, Davies
10: Ford, Russell.
Centre: Roberts, Ringrose
back 3: Kearney. Never Mike Brown

Fire at will.

by Guest Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:04 pm

Gwlad wrote:

Point is as a replacement he'd be outstanding. Only last summer he created a try from nowhere after an intercept and 60M jog against NZ. His timing to take the pass and score the winning try in Oz on his last winning Lions tour years ago equally outstanding. As a solid replacement with lions pedigree he has no equal.

He came on against Italy and did nothing.

He came on against England and was targeted with ball in hand. His first action, he took the ball into his chest (rather than, say, catching it cleanly) out wide, and was rushed by the defender. This made him in turn rush his pass, and he just got it away as he was smashed in the tackle. It was a poor ball, and the receiving player received it well above his head.

He came on against Scotland and did nothing.

He came on against Ireland and was the player closest to the ball charged down by Faletau, and scored a try uncontested.

He came on against France and was poor.

Whilst, as Robbo says, in the context of needing a replacement on short notice late in the Tour, Roberts would be great. He's of the right 'stock' required to be a squad player in the closing weeks, with no hope of making the Test team, but doing an adequate job in and around the squad, and being experienced enough to not be daunted by the midweek games, if not a fantastic Rugby player.

But don't delude yourself, Gwlad.

I know you want to play the 'bullied Welsh' card, and the best way to get 'haters' is to throw a red rag to the forum, but honestly, I mean this sincerely, maybe give 606 a bit of a miss for a while? Or at least, stop the troll comments/baiting. I doubt it's really making you happy, and it's really not enjoyable for the rest of the forum.

by Breadvan Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:12 pm

Roberts defines Gatlandball. He's the epitome of it. Crash bang bash it up the middle. That aside, WG has chosen his predecessor in Teo. If he was unfortunately to get injured, I'd expect him to call on Scot Williams. A player held back be Gats obsession with the good Dr..

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:21 pm

The Lions usually hope to play the same gameplan across midweek and weekend sides. Quite a few commentators have noticed this will be hard to do if Farrell is chosen at inside centre, since no-one other player can do that. Biggar could, but it makes no sense logistically since we wouldn't have enough tens.

Either the weekday/weekend midfield will play differently, or Farrell is seen as the number two 10, in which case the centres will probably be some pairing from Henshaw, Te'o, Davies, Joseph, Daly & Payne.

When you think about potential replacements, you probably have to think about what contingencies you want to cover. Christian Wade didn't fit any pattern Gatland had in mind in 2013, so he just ended up in one midweek match, when the main aim was to protect the weekend match 23.

The only way you can guarantee rest for your first choice 23 is if you have a back-up 23. 41 players isn't quite enough, so someone is always going to be doing double duty.

Initially, that's good, because you want everyone to have game time. However, as the tour moves on, you have to ration your top players, which means you just need fodder to throw into the weekday fixtures.

That's how Tim Payne and Tom Court got to be front row Lions.

There's not usually time for a replacement to burst into the Test side because they just haven't spent long enough with the patterns to be trusted. Corbisiero was the breakthrough replacement in 2013 but he was playing by the 4th match. Any later than that, and your chances look slim.

by robbo277 Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:28 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:The Lions usually hope to play the same gameplan across midweek and weekend sides. Quite a few commentators have noticed this will be hard to do if Farrell is chosen at inside centre, since no-one other player can do that. Biggar could, but it makes no sense logistically since we wouldn't have enough tens.

Either the weekday/weekend midfield will play differently, or Farrell is seen as the number two 10, in which case the centres will probably be some pairing from Henshaw, Te'o, Davies, Joseph, Daly & Payne.

When you think about potential replacements, you probably have to think about what contingencies you want to cover. Christian Wade didn't fit any pattern Gatland had in mind in 2013, so he just ended up in one midweek match, when the main aim was to protect the weekend match 23.

The only way you can guarantee rest for your first choice 23 is if you have a back-up 23. 41 players isn't quite enough, so someone is always going to be doing double duty.

Initially, that's good, because you want everyone to have game time. However, as the tour moves on, you have to ration your top players, which means you just need fodder to throw into the weekday fixtures.

That's how Tim Payne and Tom Court got to be front row Lions.

There's not usually time for a replacement to burst into the Test side because they just haven't spent long enough with the patterns to be trusted. Corbisiero was the breakthrough replacement in 2013 but he was playing by the 4th match. Any later than that, and your chances look slim.

Good post. Would add that Twelvetrees and Barritt also got late calls in 2013.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:40 pm

Poorfour wrote:Genuinely astonished that anyone is touting Fagerson as a serious prospect for a callup. He looks like a prospect and was very much thrown in at the deep end - but he was also clearly out of his depth in the matches I saw.

Other than that, most of the suggestions are sensible. I have to say, though, that even as a Quins fan, Dr Roberts looks well off his best and I can't see him getting the call.

Fagerson gets the nod from me because we don't have too many to choose from, Cole and Furlong are by some distance the beat choices, there aren't too many uninjured options behind them.

Also on the topic of Roberts/Henshaw/Teo and any other purveyors of fine crash ball running, it's worth bearing this in mind; to beat the All Black's I think we'll need to score more than 30 points. We won't do that by smashing it up the middle.

by Gwlad Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:25 pm

miaow wrote:
Gwlad wrote:

Point is as a replacement he'd be outstanding. Only last summer he created a try from nowhere after an intercept and 60M jog against NZ. His timing to take the pass and score the winning try in Oz on his last winning Lions tour years ago equally outstanding. As a solid replacement with lions pedigree he has no equal.

He came on against Italy and did nothing.

He came on against England and was targeted with ball in hand. His first action, he took the ball into his chest (rather than, say, catching it cleanly) out wide, and was rushed by the defender. This made him in turn rush his pass, and he just got it away as he was smashed in the tackle. It was a poor ball, and the receiving player received it well above his head.

He came on against Scotland and did nothing.

He came on against Ireland and was the player closest to the ball charged down by Faletau, and scored a try uncontested.

He came on against France and was poor.

Whilst, as Robbo says, in the context of needing a replacement on short notice late in the Tour, Roberts would be great. He's of the right 'stock' required to be a squad player in the closing weeks, with no hope of making the Test team, but doing an adequate job in and around the squad, and being experienced enough to not be daunted by the midweek games, if not a fantastic Rugby player.

But don't delude yourself, Gwlad.

I know you want to play the 'bullied Welsh' card, and the best way to get 'haters' is to throw a red rag to the forum, but honestly, I mean this sincerely, maybe give 606 a bit of a miss for a while? Or at least, stop the troll comments/baiting. I doubt it's really making you happy, and it's really not enjoyable for the rest of the forum.

its my thread, suggest you get off it

I like Roberts as a replacement. His running lines are excellent and only last summer, v the ABs, he created a beautiful try doing everything he is supposed not to be able to do so stick that in your superior pipe and insert it in your anatomical filing cabinet, there's a good rhymes with cat thumbsup

by Gwlad Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Breadvan wrote:Roberts defines Gatlandball. He's the epitome of it. Crash bang bash it up the middle. That aside, WG has chosen his predecessor in Teo. If he was unfortunately to get injured, I'd expect him to call on Scot Williams. A player held back be Gats obsession with the good Dr..

thats the perception - was used to beat England at RWC.

But suggest you watch him v ABs last summer to see a very different set of skills creating a try.

Makes no sense that Gats would call on SW as a replacement on a Lions tour instead of double lion, winning lion and MVP Lion in 09

by Scottrf Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:58 pm

Ffs doesn't matter if he's captain 50 winning Lions tours if he's no good now. It's not a CV contest it's a rugby match.

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:44 am

You clearly know nothing about the guy just on the Gatlandball bandwagon. he was outstanding v NZ last season.

by **LondonTiger** Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:21 am

Rugby Fan wrote:The Lions usually hope to play the same gameplan across midweek and weekend sides. Quite a few commentators have noticed this will be hard to do if Farrell is chosen at inside centre, since no-one other player can do that. Biggar could, but it makes no sense logistically since we wouldn't have enough tens.

During the team announcement, and in interviews following, it was made very clear that Farrell had been selected as a 10.

by mikey_dragon Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:26 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Players I think ought to be on the cover list (with the cheeky set of players that for various reasons as a NZ fan I'd love to see called up in brackets )
Props: Healy, Evans,
Props: Nel, Fagerson, (Vickery - plenty left in those legs)
Hookers: Hartley, Brown, Hibbard (R Ford)
Locks: Launchbury, Ryan, R Gray, J Gray, (Ball - 7/10)
Flank: Robshaw, Watson,Haskell (Lydiate)
8: Heaslip, (T Wood)
9: Care, Laidlaw. (Phillips)
10: Russell, Ford (Gopperth)
Centre: Ringrose, Dunbar. (Woodward)
back 3: Brown, Maitland. (Cuthbert)

Jake Ball is good at running around and wrecking opposition; I take it that's what you're referring to?

A couple of years back that useless hack Andy Howell at WOL did a Wales vs NZ preview and incompetently rated both team's players out of ten. Jake Ball and reigning world player of the year Brodie Retallick were both rated as 7/10. So hence "Seven out of Ten" has become Ball's nickname on a couple of rugby FB groups I'm in. I did say the bracketed players were ones I'd enjoy seeing, not why I'd enjoy seeing them.

Ah right I see. Andy still getting a few bites then? 7/10 was probably fair for Ball, but Retallick was likely a straight 10.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:32 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Players I think ought to be on the cover list (with the cheeky set of players that for various reasons as a NZ fan I'd love to see called up in brackets )
Props: Healy, Evans,
Props: Nel, Fagerson, (Vickery - plenty left in those legs)
Hookers: Hartley, Brown, Hibbard (R Ford)
Locks: Launchbury, Ryan, R Gray, J Gray, (Ball - 7/10)
Flank: Robshaw, Watson,Haskell (Lydiate)
8: Heaslip, (T Wood)
9: Care, Laidlaw. (Phillips)
10: Russell, Ford (Gopperth)
Centre: Ringrose, Dunbar. (Woodward)
back 3: Brown, Maitland. (Cuthbert)

Jake Ball is good at running around and wrecking opposition; I take it that's what you're referring to?

A couple of years back that useless hack Andy Howell at WOL did a Wales vs NZ preview and incompetently rated both team's players out of ten. Jake Ball and reigning world player of the year Brodie Retallick were both rated as 7/10. So hence "Seven out of Ten" has become Ball's nickname on a couple of rugby FB groups I'm in. I did say the bracketed players were ones I'd enjoy seeing, not why I'd enjoy seeing them.

Ah right I see. Andy still getting a few bites then? 7/10 was probably fair for Ball, but Retallick was likely a straight 10.

To be honest I think he's losing his edge. Other "professional" WUMs (Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones, Chris Rattue, Mark Reason, Neil Francis, ...) around the world earn a living from deliberately pushing controversial/wacky opinions. Howell seems to have started believing his own BS which impacts its quality. It's a weird one, as Simon Thomas at WOL is a pretty good journo IMO, odd to see such a contrast at one publication

by mikey_dragon Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:34 am

I feel I should also say that I wouldn't have taken Roberts or JD2 to NZ - both much bigger than the ABs midfield yet last summer Barrett danced through them a few times to score tries and set up some more. I can see why JD2 is selected although I can't see him making the test team.

by mikey_dragon Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:36 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Players I think ought to be on the cover list (with the cheeky set of players that for various reasons as a NZ fan I'd love to see called up in brackets )
Props: Healy, Evans,
Props: Nel, Fagerson, (Vickery - plenty left in those legs)
Hookers: Hartley, Brown, Hibbard (R Ford)
Locks: Launchbury, Ryan, R Gray, J Gray, (Ball - 7/10)
Flank: Robshaw, Watson,Haskell (Lydiate)
8: Heaslip, (T Wood)
9: Care, Laidlaw. (Phillips)
10: Russell, Ford (Gopperth)
Centre: Ringrose, Dunbar. (Woodward)
back 3: Brown, Maitland. (Cuthbert)

Jake Ball is good at running around and wrecking opposition; I take it that's what you're referring to?

A couple of years back that useless hack Andy Howell at WOL did a Wales vs NZ preview and incompetently rated both team's players out of ten. Jake Ball and reigning world player of the year Brodie Retallick were both rated as 7/10. So hence "Seven out of Ten" has become Ball's nickname on a couple of rugby FB groups I'm in. I did say the bracketed players were ones I'd enjoy seeing, not why I'd enjoy seeing them.

Ah right I see. Andy still getting a few bites then? 7/10 was probably fair for Ball, but Retallick was likely a straight 10.

To be honest I think he's losing his edge. Other "professional" WUMs (Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones, Chris Rattue, Mark Reason, Neil Francis, ...) around the world earn a living from deliberately pushing controversial/wacky opinions. Howell seems to have started believing his own BS which impacts its quality. It's a weird one, as Simon Thomas at WOL is a pretty good journo IMO, odd to see such a contrast at one publication

I wouldn't know, but I understand you're more glued up in the world of journalism? I tend to see a WOL headline, think to myself "delusional tripe" and avoid it.

by TightHEAD Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:38 am

mikey_dragon wrote:I feel I should also say that I wouldn't have taken Roberts or JD2 to NZ - both much bigger than the ABs midfield yet last summer Barrett danced through them a few times to score tries and set up some more. I can see why JD2 is selected although I can't see him making the test team.

Can you?

What I've seen of him this season he is a shadow of the player he was.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:46 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Players I think ought to be on the cover list (with the cheeky set of players that for various reasons as a NZ fan I'd love to see called up in brackets )
Props: Healy, Evans,
Props: Nel, Fagerson, (Vickery - plenty left in those legs)
Hookers: Hartley, Brown, Hibbard (R Ford)
Locks: Launchbury, Ryan, R Gray, J Gray, (Ball - 7/10)
Flank: Robshaw, Watson,Haskell (Lydiate)
8: Heaslip, (T Wood)
9: Care, Laidlaw. (Phillips)
10: Russell, Ford (Gopperth)
Centre: Ringrose, Dunbar. (Woodward)
back 3: Brown, Maitland. (Cuthbert)

Jake Ball is good at running around and wrecking opposition; I take it that's what you're referring to?

A couple of years back that useless hack Andy Howell at WOL did a Wales vs NZ preview and incompetently rated both team's players out of ten. Jake Ball and reigning world player of the year Brodie Retallick were both rated as 7/10. So hence "Seven out of Ten" has become Ball's nickname on a couple of rugby FB groups I'm in. I did say the bracketed players were ones I'd enjoy seeing, not why I'd enjoy seeing them.

Ah right I see. Andy still getting a few bites then? 7/10 was probably fair for Ball, but Retallick was likely a straight 10.

To be honest I think he's losing his edge. Other "professional" WUMs (Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones, Chris Rattue, Mark Reason, Neil Francis, ...) around the world earn a living from deliberately pushing controversial/wacky opinions. Howell seems to have started believing his own BS which impacts its quality. It's a weird one, as Simon Thomas at WOL is a pretty good journo IMO, odd to see such a contrast at one publication

I wouldn't know, but I understand you're more glued up in the world of journalism? I tend to see a WOL headline, think to myself "delusional tripe" and avoid it.

The "seven out of 10" thing is one of those minor jokes that's developed a life of its own - a bit like the Phil Vickery retirement gag

Wise of you Mikey Smile

. Thomas is perhaps the exception to the WOL rule - I don't often go to WOL articles, but it's often a case of looking at the byline before deciding whether to read for amusement (laughing at not with) or to take it seriously.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:48 am

TightHEAD wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I feel I should also say that I wouldn't have taken Roberts or JD2 to NZ - both much bigger than the ABs midfield yet last summer Barrett danced through them a few times to score tries and set up some more. I can see why JD2 is selected although I can't see him making the test team.

Can you?

What I've seen of him this season he is a shadow of the player he was.

He's not as good as he was 4 years ago. But there wasn't exactly a host of centres screaming "pick me" in the 6N, especially once Huw Jones got injured

by TightHEAD Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:58 am

So why pick one based on past glories?

That has been the whole issue with Gatland and the Welsh Lions.

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:13 am

Gwlad wrote:
its my thread, suggest you get off it

It's everyone's forum. Possessiveness over it, as well as someone 'making your day' with a comment on here, suggests you're invested in it to an unhealthy level. That's fine, of course, do what you want, but when the end result is dreadful content due to perpetual squabbling over nothing more than ego, then it needs challenging. Go outside this evening. Go for a walk. Go to the pub with some friends. Maybe even watch- and discuss- the rugby with them instead of 606. I'm not trying to offend you, just get a bit of perspective, then come back and use the forum. Trolling like you are- unintelligent nationalistic WUMming- suggests serious disgruntlement with the world. You won't find happiness in it, only a short term shot to the ego. Hug

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:20 am

Gwlad wrote:
Breadvan wrote:Roberts defines Gatlandball. He's the epitome of it. Crash bang bash it up the middle. That aside, WG has chosen his predecessor in Teo. If he was unfortunately to get injured, I'd expect him to call on Scot Williams. A player held back be Gats obsession with the good Dr..

thats the perception - was used to beat England at RWC.

But suggest you watch him v ABs last summer to see a very different set of skills creating a try.

Makes no sense that Gats would call on SW as a replacement on a Lions tour instead of double lion, winning lion and MVP Lion in 09

That's 8 years ago, FFS.

by Breadvan Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:56 am

A single try in a dire test series. Roberts doesn't start for Wales and struggles with Quins. Hardly Lions call up material, altho I wouldn't be surprised if he was called up by Howler & Gatland.
JD2 is a good player imo, its just his end product needs work. Too many miss passes and grubbers into touch..

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:59 pm

miaow wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
its my thread, suggest you get off it

It's everyone's forum. Possessiveness over it, as well as someone 'making your day' with a comment on here, suggests you're invested in it to an unhealthy level. That's fine, of course, do what you want, but when the end result is dreadful content due to perpetual squabbling over nothing more than ego, then it needs challenging. Go outside this evening. Go for a walk. Go to the pub with some friends. Maybe even watch- and discuss- the rugby with them instead of 606. I'm not trying to offend you, just get a bit of perspective, then come back and use the forum. Trolling like you are- unintelligent nationalistic WUMming- suggests serious disgruntlement with the world. You won't find happiness in it, only a short term shot to the ego.

Miaow not sure who you think you are, it was you advocating i leave the forum so i suggest that before you give yet another sanctimonious lecture you remember that. Stop trying to derail this thread with your unsolicited advice. Your eternal essays which nobody reads suggests you have very little else to do with yourself.

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:39 pm

I said take a break, Gwlad, not leave. Take a break and come back when you're a little less...cantankerous. Everyone's tired of you, and those who actually engage with you on this forum are laughing at you.

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:52 pm

miaow wrote:I said take a break, Gwlad, not leave. Take a break and come back when you're a little less...cantankerous. Everyone's tired of you, and those who actually engage with you on this forum are laughing at you.

Tired of me and bored to tears of you.

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:48 pm

I've clearly hit a nerve. Take it as the helpful advice it is, not a reason for you to make (yet more) personal attacks on posters of this forum.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:04 pm

With respect Miaow, 'take a break and come back when you're a little less...cantankerous' is advice (whether helpful or not), but 'everyone's tired of you, and those who actually engage with you on this forum are laughing at you' is not.

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:05 pm

miaow wrote:I've clearly hit a nerve. Take it as the helpful advice it is, not a reason for you to make (yet more) personal attacks on posters of this forum.

No, it seems all i do is hit a nerve with you, hence your constant personal attacks on me

by majesticimperialman Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Gwlad wrote:You clearly know nothing about the guy just on the Gatlandball bandwagon. he was outstanding v NZ last season.

One good game v the All Blacks in ten years. Does not mean he is good enough "NOW" Does it?

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:45 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Gwlad wrote:You clearly know nothing about the guy just on the Gatlandball bandwagon. he was outstanding v NZ last season.

One good game v the All Blacks in ten years. Does not mean he is good enough "NOW" Does it?

After his outstanding performance last year, as a replacement Lion, absolutely.

England haven't even played them for 3 years.

by RuggerRadge2611 Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:48 pm

I personally don't think Roberts is the answer. If you are looking for a big bruiser currently playing well and not already on the tour take Dunbar.

Although I have to be honest, I don't think we'll beat the all blacks by relying purely on physicality. Hence I'm hoping Farrell starts at 12, with Henshaw coming on from the bench.

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:53 pm

I wouldn't start Roberts or JD2. I would barely bench JD2 right now though think hell rise to the occasion as long as he can learn to pass. Roberts is a replacement because of his pedigree and he has more recent form v NZ than anyone else posited. As someone else pointed out both are lumps and the likes of Barret dance round them.

I think the key area of physicality we have to concentrate on is tight 5, combined with tight 5 carrying, breakdown management and ball retention. If we get that right we have the finishers out wide. Problem is midfield, its an area of weakness. I like Farrell at 12 because he has excellent distribution skills but i think he is going as a 10.

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:45 pm

Breadvan wrote:A single try in a dire test series. Roberts doesn't start for Wales and struggles with Quins. Hardly Lions call up material, altho I wouldn't be surprised if he was called up by Howler & Gatland.
JD2 is a good player imo, its just his end product needs work. Too many miss passes and grubbers into touch..

Its funny, he was 10 days ago Headscratch

Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017
Post by miaow on Mon 17 Apr - 13:59

I'd be astonished if Roberts toured. He'd be a good call up late in the Tour because of his experience, personality, and work ethic etc.,

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:43 pm

And I posted this yesterday, Gwlad:

miaow wrote:
Whilst, as Robbo says, in the context of needing a replacement on short notice late in the Tour, Roberts would be great. He's of the right 'stock' required to be a squad player in the closing weeks, with no hope of making the Test team, but doing an adequate job in and around the squad, and being experienced enough to not be daunted by the midweek games, if not a fantastic Rugby player.

The key part there is nuance, and context.

No-one's going to take you seriously if you think Roberts was "superb" in New Zealand. Fortunately, we have things like evidence, and ways of recording history, to mitigate against brazenly over the top interpretations based on bias, which, in your case, is nationality. I think you've been reading too many newspapers, seeing how repeating something over and over to people who aren't really paying attention to the facts can slowly creep in and be accepted as truth. Roberts was pretty poor out in NZ, without being dreadful. He was shocking in the Autumn, and shocking in the Six Nations.

Roberts would be fine if we needed to call someone up to do a Christian Wade, i.e. pull the shirt on once, maybe twice, as he's a good egg in and around the squad. That, above his playing ability, is why he'd be a good replacement late in the tour. As someone who would receive a fair amount of game time with a view of being in with a chance to start a Test, i.e. coming in early on, or before departure? No way, horrible idea. You're depriving what already could be an 'unsettled' position if Henshaw (!?) or whoever Gatland's pencilled in for the Test series at 12 doesn't hit the ground running and they have to consider other combinations in the midfield. Aside from that fact, as mentioned, he's one of the worst footballers- in any position- in the Welsh team. Even if he were just playing midweek matches, his handling skills (that includes his "world class receiving") are incredibly poor. It would be dispiriting to see moves break down or become ineffective because of his quite obvious deficiencies, which he's been given more than enough opportunity to improve at Test level. His time is, thankfully, winding down. He seems like a very honest and likeable man, but he's in many worst a representative of the worst parts of Welsh Rugby since 2013.[/quote]

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:45 pm

And since you're clearly not going to take my advice re: investing too much time and effort into the forum by leaving 606 alone once in a while, enjoy trawling through my post history. Mad Friday for Gwlad

by Gwlad Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:53 pm

miaow wrote:And since you're clearly not going to take my advice re: investing too much time and effort into the forum by leaving 606 alone once in a while, enjoy trawling through my post history. Mad Friday for Gwlad

Didn't take long i can assure you Laugh

and which is it, i'm confused …..call up or dont call up? Can your left hand ask your right hand?

Too much time and effort, yes you're right i ought to write an essay in response to everything idea

by Taylorman Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:26 pm

Gwlad wrote: As someone else pointed out both are lumps and the likes of Barret dance round them.

Dont worry about Barrett. He dances around everyone here as well, he just manages to chuck in a couple of piroettes on these two.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:34 pm

miaow wrote:I've clearly hit a nerve. Take it as the helpful advice it is, not a reason for you to make (yet more) personal attacks on posters of this forum.

I could be wrong - and I apologise profusely if I am - but speaking of personal attacks on posters on this forum...are you that strange fellow who sent me abusive PMs after an argument on here when I first joined (as a 19 year old)?

As I said, if I am mixing you up with someone else, I apologise. You just seem vaguely familiar...

by Gwlad Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:19 am

Taylorman wrote:
Gwlad wrote: As someone else pointed out both are lumps and the likes of Barret dance round them.

Dont worry about Barrett. He dances around everyone here as well, he just manages to chuck in a couple of piroettes on these two.

Rather how i feel dealing with you Laugh

by Taylorman Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:27 am

Gwlad wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gwlad wrote: As someone else pointed out both are lumps and the likes of Barret dance round them.

Dont worry about Barrett. He dances around everyone here as well, he just manages to chuck in a couple of piroettes on these two.

Rather how i feel dealing with you

you need to be better than that if you want a shot a the title sonny.

Take the advice of others and have a snooze. Lions tour is still a while away and youre getting a wee bit too excited.

Chill.

by Gwlad Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:47 am

Taylorman wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gwlad wrote: As someone else pointed out both are lumps and the likes of Barret dance round them.

Dont worry about Barrett. He dances around everyone here as well, he just manages to chuck in a couple of piroettes on these two.

Rather how i feel dealing with you

you need to be better than that if you want a shot a the title sonny.

Take the advice of others and have a snooze. Lions tour is still a while away and youre getting a wee bit too excited.

Chill.

sonny?!!
smashed em again bro Laugh

by Guest Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:58 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
miaow wrote:I've clearly hit a nerve. Take it as the helpful advice it is, not a reason for you to make (yet more) personal attacks on posters of this forum.

I could be wrong - and I apologise profusely if I am - but speaking of personal attacks on posters on this forum...are you that strange fellow who sent me abusive PMs after an argument on here when I first joined (as a 19 year old)?

As I said, if I am mixing you up with someone else, I apologise. You just seem vaguely familiar...

No, not me. I have two PMs received- one for joining in 2011, another in 2014 which is non user specific- and have never sent a PM.

by Guest Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:00 pm

Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

by Rory_Gallagher Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:04 pm

miaow wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
miaow wrote:I've clearly hit a nerve. Take it as the helpful advice it is, not a reason for you to make (yet more) personal attacks on posters of this forum.

I could be wrong - and I apologise profusely if I am - but speaking of personal attacks on posters on this forum...are you that strange fellow who sent me abusive PMs after an argument on here when I first joined (as a 19 year old)?

As I said, if I am mixing you up with someone else, I apologise. You just seem vaguely familiar...

No, not me. I have two PMs received- one for joining in 2011, another in 2014 which is non user specific- and have never sent a PM.

Apologies for the mistake. I think it was a similar username and they had joined the same sort of time as me (2011).

by lostinwales Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:21 pm

miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

He's in Canada if I remember right. Nothing like the nationalistic self righteousness of the expat.

by Gwlad Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:33 pm

miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

pretty scary stalking miaow and nice try but, thankfully, we dont live in the same time zones. Would have thought your genius would have made that obvious Rolling Eyes

by Gwlad Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:19 pm

lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

He's in Canada if I remember right. Nothing like the nationalistic self righteousness of the expat.

says 'lostinwales', shame it hasn't rubbed off on you a bit. Rolling Eyes

by lostinwales Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:49 pm

Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

He's in Canada if I remember right. Nothing like the nationalistic self righteousness of the expat.

says 'lostinwales', shame it hasn't rubbed off on you a bit.

Not in wales anymore, and as an England supporter I actually have a team to be proud of (for now....)

by Gwlad Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:27 am

lostinwales wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

He's in Canada if I remember right. Nothing like the nationalistic self righteousness of the expat.

says 'lostinwales', shame it hasn't rubbed off on you a bit.

Not in wales anymore, and as an England supporter I actually have a team to be proud of (for now....)

How very nationalistic of you Rolling Eyes

Couldn't be prouder of Wales if i tried.

by Taylorman Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:53 am

lostinwales wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

He's in Canada if I remember right. Nothing like the nationalistic self righteousness of the expat.

says 'lostinwales', shame it hasn't rubbed off on you a bit.

Not in wales anymore, and as an England supporter I actually have a team to be proud of (for now....)

Makes two of us Lost, can't wait to meet thumbsup

by Gwlad Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:09 am

Taylorman wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:Up at 4am posting on 606 Gwlad?

He's in Canada if I remember right. Nothing like the nationalistic self righteousness of the expat.

says 'lostinwales', shame it hasn't rubbed off on you a bit.

Not in wales anymore, and as an England supporter I actually have a team to be proud of (for now....)

Makes two of us Lost, can't wait to meet

ah sweet, you belong together Hug

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