Ulster 2016/2017

by Redman Fri 28 Apr 2017, 5:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Redman wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Any inside info on Dom Ryan yet? 27 and the only IQ backrower not tied up for next year. Where do you put his out of interest in a pecking order? Better or worse than Clive Ross? My hunch is better, but I've not really ever watched him closely.

Has to be better. I looked him up before and he has something like 100 or so caps for Leinster. Ross has about 50 for us, and it's got to be tougher to get a cap for Leinster than it is for Ulster in the backrow - even allowing for international call ups.

Dryan ®, as he shall be known if he signs, also has 20 or so U20 caps.

That said, I haven't seen him play.

by marty2086 Tue 09 May 2017, 9:43 pm

toml wrote:Humhpreys isn't pulling up any trees in Gloucester... they finished 9th behind Newcastle this year. I think he knew his stock was as high as it was going to be and got out. I don't think we are missing much.

Fingers crossed for Gibbes

Well to be fair he won the Challenge Cup in his first season and they are in the final again this year

by toml Tue 09 May 2017, 10:47 pm

Depends on your measure of success.. if we had won the ECC this season it would still have been a dud year

by toml Tue 09 May 2017, 11:17 pm

Thornley in the Times:

Ruan Pienaar’s enforced departure hits so many wrong notes
In essence, gifted South African has been treated as a mere commodity by the IRFU

An emotional Ruan Pienaar after his last game for Ulster against Leinster at the Kingspan Stadium. Photograph: Darren Kidd/Presseye/Inpho
An emotional Ruan Pienaar after his last game for Ulster against Leinster at the Kingspan Stadium. Photograph: Darren Kidd/Presseye/Inpho

Gerry Thornley
about 16 hours ago

Well, Ruan Pienaar’s hugely emotional farewell proved it, as if it needed proving.

Too choked with tears to even put into words how he felt in the immediate aftermath of his final competitive game for Ulster, after his father, wife Monique and their two children Lemay and Jean-Luc joined him on the sidelines, Pienaar’s IRFU-enforced departure went way beyond a mere rugby related decision.

There was and remains a human element to Pienaar’s eviction from Ulster, against his and his province’s wishes, and on this score the optics of Saturday’s farewell reflected poorly on the IRFU.

Pienaar, like every other professional rugby player affiliated to Irish rugby, is not just a commodity, but in this case he has been treated merely as such.

Yes, there is an argument for moving Pienaar on. In his seven seasons at Ulster, the province failed to develop another indigenous scrumhalf, as they had been repeatedly asked to do. But just because he is moving on now doesn’t necessarily mean that, like mushrooms, one is suddenly going to sprout from the ground.

Yes, the IRFU’s high performance manager David Nucifora has to see the wider picture and help to determine the Ireland team’s long-term succession planning in every position, and in this he is doing a very good job. Much to Leinster’s chagrin, Nucifora revealed that on foot of Ian Madigan’s departure, and a season beforehand that of Jimmy Gopperth, they had requested permission to sign an overseas outhalf as back-up to Johnny Sexton.

No doubt his and the union’s decision not to grant this request contributed to the emergence of Joey Carbery, and indeed Ross Byrne and Cathal Marsh. Otherwise, they would not have seen as much game time as they have.

Nucifora’s stance in the protracted wrangling over Munster’s desire to sign Wallabies hooker and captain Stephen Moore has also been vindicated in the emergence of Niall Scannell.

And so on, and so on.

The retirement of BJ Botha assuredly opened the door for John Ryan, although Ryan would be the first to admit that Botha played a huge role in his own development, and this is a familiar refrain, be it John Langford’s influence over Donncha O’Callaghan and other Munster locks, ditto Brad Thorn on Devin Toner and co at Leinster, Felipe Contepomi on Johnny Sexton, Isa Nacewa over the outside backs and many others in Leinster, and Pienaar himself on Paddy Jackson.

Rightful limitations

Even in Craig Clarke’s brief stay at Connacht before concussion issues forced him to retire, John Muldoon has said he learned more from the former Waikato Chiefs’ captain about leadership than anyone else. In this too, one could go on and on, and on.

Because of the rightful limitations placed on the number of overseas players in the Irish system, their currency becomes even more valuable. Hence, the higher the quality and amount of their performances, the more they buy into the province, the longer they stay and the greater legacy they leave, the better. Pienaar ticked all those boxes.

One can’t help but feel that with Eoin Reddan and Isaac Boss retiring, Leinster were understandably granted permission to sign an overseas scrumhalf, cue the arrival of Jamison Gibson-Park, and that the ripple effect was the decision regarding Pienaar.

But as events have transpired, Luke McGrath and Kieran Marmion have both come on a ton this year, and helped steer Ireland to victory over England. Besides, retaining Pienaar in a quasi coaching role might actually have helped Ulster develop an indigenous scrumhalf under his guidance.

For Nucifora to stand in the way of Pienaar being granted a new contract would be akin to the IRFU not allowing Leinster to re-sign their captain Isa Nacewa for another season after his seven years with the province, during which time his three children were also all born in Ireland.

It would have been equally wrong on so many levels. No doubt it’s been noted up north that when he was head coach of the Auckland Blues, Nucifora gave Nacewa his Super Rugby debut. Yet imagine the furore had that happened. It would have been understandable as well.

It’s also worth noting the IRFU bankroll the provinces, but the fallout from this decision are significant, and go beyond even Ulster losing Pienaar as and from next season onwards, which is considerable in itself. The loss of his composure in the heat of battle, decision-making and skill execution will leave a huge void. While they have made some good, badly needed signings up front, were Pienaar’s void to contribute to another underwhelming Ulster season, that will do no-one any good.

Iconic figure

His team-mates are evidently disappointed, witness Luke Marshall’s brave comments admitting their annoyance and incomprehension over the decision. Historically, the union has never taken kindly to any of their employers stepping out of line publicly. The Ulster supporters clearly feel annoyed and betrayed at the loss of such an iconic figure.

Most of all perhaps, it simply sends out the wrong message; that playing brilliantly, buying into a province’s culture and setting down roots (even building a family here) as Pienaar has done, doesn’t preclude the IRFU determining that a player will be surplus to requirements.

Mercenaries need only apply.

Ultimately, it’s just such a shame to see a high-class player and bloke, who had rejected more remunerative options abroad when opting to stay with Ulaster, and who had become such an innate part of the Ulster fabric, being forced to move on against his and Ulster’s wishes.

On a human level, as Saturday showed, it’s all wrong.

gthornley@irishtimes.com

by marty2086 Wed 10 May 2017, 7:37 am

[quote="toml"]Depends on your measure of success.. if we had won the ECC this season it would still have been a dud year[/quote

No it wouldn't have, we would have revelled in winning our first trophy for 10 years

by Don Alfonso Wed 10 May 2017, 10:09 am

Lez sez: gonna make an effort next year, guys.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/ill-be-putting-pressure-on-myself-to-get-it-right-next-year-kiss-35694247.html

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 10 May 2017, 10:19 am

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 10 May 2017, 10:24 am

Question - since we lost Bakarat, Clarke and Doak, will we be getting a new defence and forwards coach as well as Gibbes?

by marty2086 Wed 10 May 2017, 10:31 am

Don Alfonso wrote:Lez sez: gonna make an effort next year, guys.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/ill-be-putting-pressure-on-myself-to-get-it-right-next-year-kiss-35694247.html

Think we should be worried reading the bottom half of that article, he talks about filling Ruans shoes, Marshall who they mention has signed an extension for next year so looks like it is just a year, Shanahan being a slow burner, getting Cairns more time at 9, Stewart and O'Donnell coming through yet no mention of Lloyd?

by marty2086 Wed 10 May 2017, 10:32 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question - since we lost Bakarat, Clarke and Doak, will we be getting a new defence and forwards coach as well as Gibbes?

Why would we bring in a forwards coach Rory? That'll be part of Gibbes remit, its a defence coach we need

by Pete330v2 Wed 10 May 2017, 11:17 am

marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question - since we lost Bakarat, Clarke and Doak, will we be getting a new defence and forwards coach as well as Gibbes?

Why would we bring in a forwards coach Rory? That'll be part of Gibbes remit, its a defence coach we need

Gibbes for the forwards, Peel for the backs and dare I say it, Kiss, the ex-international defence specialist for defence coach?
I hope not, another year of failed choke tackle after failed choke tackle. Kiss should slip into the DOR role in truth which would leave us looking for a defence coach only. Not a huge ask is it?

by Pete330v2 Wed 10 May 2017, 11:40 am

Don Alfonso wrote:Lez sez: gonna make an effort next year, guys.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/ill-be-putting-pressure-on-myself-to-get-it-right-next-year-kiss-35694247.html

That does not reflect at all well. Was every effort not being made this season?? If not then why not?

by marty2086 Wed 10 May 2017, 12:05 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question - since we lost Bakarat, Clarke and Doak, will we be getting a new defence and forwards coach as well as Gibbes?

Why would we bring in a forwards coach Rory? That'll be part of Gibbes remit, its a defence coach we need

Gibbes for the forwards, Peel for the backs and dare I say it, Kiss, the ex-international defence specialist for defence coach?
I hope not, another year of failed choke tackle after failed choke tackle. Kiss should slip into the DOR role in truth which would leave us looking for a defence coach only. Not a huge ask is it?

The choke tackle wasn't a big problem with our defence, it was the passivity in defence and the drift defence which teams exploited too easily especially when our back row was so poor at the breakdown gifting quick ball. The dog leg we used against Leinster seemed more suited to that problem even though we were improved at the breakdown

by geoff999rugby Wed 10 May 2017, 12:13 pm

Agreed choke tackle was not the problem
Passive drift defence, passive inside shoulders and an horrendous number of tackle just plain missed e.g. Diack, Olding
Add that players too slow to get into line in time i.e. Black, Warwick and Herbst, McCloskey and his turning circle, Piatau not being arsed - I could go on.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 10 May 2017, 12:28 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question - since we lost Bakarat, Clarke and Doak, will we be getting a new defence and forwards coach as well as Gibbes?

Why would we bring in a forwards coach Rory? That'll be part of Gibbes remit, its a defence coach we need

Gibbes for the forwards, Peel for the backs and dare I say it, Kiss, the ex-international defence specialist for defence coach?
I hope not, another year of failed choke tackle after failed choke tackle. Kiss should slip into the DOR role in truth which would leave us looking for a defence coach only. Not a huge ask is it?

I completely forgot about Peel. Thanks.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 10 May 2017, 12:30 pm

I think the choke tackle is a problem in terms of tackle technique. Often players will try to tackle high and just completely fall off the tackle. Henderson has been guilty of that more often than he should be. In fact, I don't think I've seen him attempt any other sort of tackle for a while. Similar story with McCloskey.

by Pete330v2 Wed 10 May 2017, 1:14 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think the choke tackle is a problem in terms of tackle technique. Often players will try to tackle high and just completely fall off the tackle. Henderson has been guilty of that more often than he should be. In fact, I don't think I've seen him attempt any other sort of tackle for a while. Similar story with McCloskey.

That's the problem I have with it too. An upright defender is easier to flatten, it's just physics. Teams know how Ulster love the choke and attack accordingly. Maybe it's my paranoid imagination but do opposition attackers tend to go in quite low against Ulster to negate the choke?
As you said Marty our passivity in defence leaves us very vunerable and the linespeed against Leinster was a little more like how we should be doing things. I think it took them very much by surprise for that matter.

by geoff999rugby Wed 10 May 2017, 2:27 pm

The choke tackle has indeed been largely ineffective but it has not been not be THE problem defensively

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 10 May 2017, 5:33 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:The choke tackle has indeed been largely ineffective but it has not been not be THE problem defensively

Yeah I agree with that - it doesn't account for how passive and unstructured our defence has been in general. Plus just shocking individual tackling at times.

by Sin é Fri 12 May 2017, 9:58 am

Interview with Angus Lloyd in Independent today. It doesn't sound like he is going back to Ulster. He mentions that he had a 1 year contract with Ulster.

"I played a Munster 'A' game against Ulster 'A' and that went well, and there was the coming in of the new management team at Munster and I fell through the cracks there.

"But thankfully after that Ulster signed up for a development contract for a year before I moved to Munster in November."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/blackrock-boy-thrilled-to-earn-his-time-in-the-red-jersey-35705472.html

I was under the impression he was just a loan from Ulster, but it looks like Ulster are not taking him back!

by toml Fri 12 May 2017, 10:04 am

If you were him would you rather win big games and leaen from Connor Murray or not and learn from Ruan, sorry I mean Paul Marshall

by marty2086 Fri 12 May 2017, 10:07 am

Maybe Ulster are now the development province, as the only province not to win anything in the last decade it would make sense and explain why Ruan got the boot, they are getting Cooney more game time before sending him back to Leinster. Its be one of our centres to Munster next, just wait and see

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 12 May 2017, 10:12 am

marty2086 wrote:Maybe Ulster are now the development province, as the only province not to win anything in the last decade it would make sense and explain why Ruan got the boot, they are getting Cooney more game time before sending him back to Leinster. Its be one of our centres to Munster next, just wait and see

Sure that's already happened with Arnold and Farrell.

by marty2086 Fri 12 May 2017, 10:22 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Maybe Ulster are now the development province, as the only province not to win anything in the last decade it would make sense and explain why Ruan got the boot, they are getting Cooney more game time before sending him back to Leinster. Its be one of our centres to Munster next, just wait and see

Sure that's already happened with Arnold and Farrell.

Don't think we can claim to have lost Farrell to Munster but now you mention Arnold they'll probably take two centres and give us him back Rolling Eyes

by clivemcl Fri 12 May 2017, 10:24 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Maybe Ulster are now the development province, as the only province not to win anything in the last decade it would make sense and explain why Ruan got the boot, they are getting Cooney more game time before sending him back to Leinster. Its be one of our centres to Munster next, just wait and see

Sure that's already happened with Arnold and Farrell.

We are even developing Internationals for Scotland. We are super duper at annoying young lads enough that it spurs them on to become great elsewhere.

by geoff999rugby Fri 12 May 2017, 4:19 pm

Talk of many players being let go when they were offered perfectly good contracts so not really the case.

Arnold wasn't good enough and neither he or Farrell fancied the competition.
As for Seymour he wanted to play for Scotland and there was no way we were going to use a NIQ slot on a winger who was, at best, 4th choice at the time.
Very well though we have done would we swap him for Piatau now - I doubt it.

Unless the new Project looks really good, with Black leaving, our next NIQ could well be a LH if not a Lock, meaning no NIQ player in the backs

by Pete330v2 Mon 15 May 2017, 11:55 am

Where did it all go wrong?
Uncertainty once again cloaks the future of Ulster rugby - despite all the positive words

Brendan Fanning
May 14 2017 5:00 PM

"In the future, the dream ticket for Ulster is that we are the world's best and people are coming here from around the world to see how we do it. Also that we are thriving in our clubs and schools, that the Ulster side is winning trophies, that our coaches and players are in demand in New Zealand and Australia and that we are recognised as doing things the best way - and also in a straight, honest and enduring manner."
Shane Logan, Ulster CEO, February 2015

On an October night in 2010 we ended up as the sole southern representative at a table of Ulster hacks. It was in Biarritz, balmy enough, and despite the second-half collapse of their team earlier that day the group was lively and upbeat. Change was underway, for the better. After a long road with no turn, they could see good times around the corner.

We got to discussing the relative merits of the provinces, and, given that Munster and Leinster between them had picked up three of the previous five Heineken Cups, you could see what direction the conversation was going. At one point a colleague arrested it to make plain something he felt needed clarifying.

"It's all very fine for you in Dublin writing from a distance about Munster and Leinster and Ulster," he said. "But this is our team. These guys represent who we are!"

It stayed with us, that line, for while the Brave and the Faithful were dominating the fan-zones of Europe they were a recent phenomenon. Ulster's politics would always mean that the bond between team and supporters - by extension those who wrote about them - would be a longer and closer affair.

So we observed with interest the scene last weekend in Kingspan Stadium as Ulster's season ended prematurely, again. On the surface the full house waved cheerfully and clapped as their hero, Ruan Pienaar, signed off his last competitive game in a winning performance against Leinster.

Barely below that surface, however, was a level of discontent among the fans that has been matched within the squad. Its epicentre was the coaching staff, two of whom, Neil Doak and Allen Clarke, were, like Pienaar, on their last lap.

From all sources we spoke to last week the relationship between director of rugby Les Kiss, Doak and Clarke was dysfunctional. 'Toxic' was a word used by three separate people to describe the atmosphere in the Ulster camp. Clarke's unpopularity with the players was seemingly widespread. Sources close to the centre say he didn't get on with Doak, and that Doak in turn couldn't operate under Kiss, who he felt was invading his space on the field. That may have been because Kiss, as the boss, wanted to mark his own territory, and was not enamoured of Doak's reaction to the shift in power. Either way the dynamic was awful, and badly managed.

The circumstances in which these three men were thrown together are themselves reflective of an operation running up its own backside.

You could say the decline started after Ulster fell asleep at the wheel in the wake of the European Cup win in 1999. Or you could choose a point almost eight seasons later when Mark McCall resigned, a season and a half after delivering the province's only Celtic League title. Perhaps the stripes he got on his back during that three and a half years in charge in Ravenhill have shaped the highly successful coach he is today, but certainly they looked painful at the time. The vitriol that attended his demise illustrated a fan-base with crazy expectations from an organisation who weren't tooled up to deliver.

Thereafter Ulster roller-coasted, with the lows more memorable than the highs. The constant themes have been the power of the dressing-room, whose influence was greater off the pitch than on it, and the poor choices made in the boardroom.

The nadir has a place on YouTube, albeit with a surprisingly low hit-rate. In February 2012 then operations director David Humphreys faced the press to explain why coach Brian McLaughlin was being shunted sideways into the Academy. McLaughlin was in his third season in a job he had been given in unusual circumstances.

Since McCall's departure Ulster had, after caretaker coach Steve Williams, been through 17 months of Matt Williams. They wanted someone to settle a listing ship. McLaughlin had a long career behind him as a schools coach, had worked as a skills coach with Eddie O'Sullivan's Ireland set-up, and was Ulster through and through. Humphreys thought he would be ideal to give the young Ulster squad some direction. For how long, though, was a different matter.

To give McLaughlin some comfort for abandoning his school gig in RBAI for the capricious world of pro sport, the sweetener was a guaranteed place somewhere in the Ulster set-up when the natural life of the senior coaching role expired. Agreeing what was natural was another issue.

Having drawn blanks at the business end of Europe ever since they won it in '99, McLaughlin had overseen back-to-back qualification for the knock-outs. The natives were more than bullish. But some powerful voices in the dressing-room reckoned he wasn't the man to complete the job, and Humphreys evidently agreed. The press conference to announce the shift was Punch and Judy without the contact.

To compound the public relations disaster, Ulster turned to Mark Anscombe as his successor. A self-styled straight shooter, the New Zealander must have winged a few of the wrong cowboys in the dressing-room, because they cut him short as well. Oh, almost forgot: Humphreys, who had recruited Anscombe, jumped ship to Gloucester in June 2014. He had barely got his feet under the desk at Kingsholm when Anscombe got shafted back in Belfast.

That's where Les Kiss came in. Showing a sharp eye for a gap, Ulster wedged themselves into the space between Kiss and his duties as Ireland defence coach. It was seen at the time as a coup, for Kiss is highly regarded. Initially he left assistants Doak, Clarke and Jonny Bell in charge while he served out his time with Ireland, and looked in on Ulster. As soon as the World Cup was over, Kiss rode north in earnest. A new era began.

It is unclear exactly when the relationship began to sour. The lads had enjoyed the freedom of the gaff when Kiss was in absentee landlord mode, and Ulster were competitive without picking up anything to show for it. The next season was more of the same: good in Europe without being good enough, and invited to the end-of-season party in the PRO12, but not asked to stay over.

This season, however, was a studied exercise in failure. Hobbled by a freakish number of injuries, especially up front, gradually the waft of internal unrest began to spread. When it was announced that Clarke and Doak would be moving on, there was a mixture of relief and disappointment among those close to the scene: glad the charade was coming to an end, and certainly in Doak's case sad that a coach with a lot to offer was no longer wanted. Clarke will be with the Ospreys next season; Doak will, initially at any rate, coach in Queen's University.

Kiss in the meantime will be picking up the pieces, knowing that if they fall again he won't get a chance to explain. It helps that neither of his new wingmen, Jono Gibbes and Dwayne Peel, have any connection with the province. So no history, no baggage. But both should be aware of the scale of the task: they will inherit a squad short of forward power but big on passing the buck. The best player, Pienaar, is en route to France, and there is no queue of local lads looking for his shirt.

At that press conference in 2012 to shift McLaughlin sideways, Humphreys explained it as a knock-on effect of IRFU policy. Head office, he said, were demanding optimum performance from Ulster's Academy. The pressure was hot to increase the crop of home-growns, and McLaughlin was the man to do that. McLaughlin left a year later. And despite all the moaning over Pienaar being exiled from Ulster, there are still great big gaps where the young players are supposed to be. No sign of the bus-loads rolling up to Ravenhill to learn the Ulster Way, either.

On Friday evening, Shane Logan issued the following statement:
"There's no doubt that it has been a hugely frustrating season for us but I believe the pillars of success are in place at Ulster Rugby. We have a loyal supporter base, excellent facilities, a talented playing squad, an improving Academy programme and a strong management/back-room team. This will all contribute to the long-term and sustainable future of Ulster Rugby."

Sunday Indo Sport

by Pete330v2 Mon 15 May 2017, 11:55 am

Comments Gentlemen and Ladyfolk please.

by marty2086 Mon 15 May 2017, 12:12 pm

Seems like someones pinched most of what geoff and a few others have said and made an article out of it all

by **rodders** Mon 15 May 2017, 1:23 pm

Fake news.

by clivemcl Mon 15 May 2017, 1:56 pm

The last Logan quote - I get so fed up hearing rhetoric. What is the point in quoting somebody if you know there is no chance he is going to say anything other than his same old script. Logan may as well stop talking to the press...

Thoroughly fed up with the notion that we have the bare bones, the building block, the pillars in place....
Wasted breath at this stage.

by The Great Aukster Mon 15 May 2017, 2:02 pm

The fact that Neil Doak is going to Queens says it all about Ulster Rugby.

Shane Logan has done a fantastic job managing the commercial side of the business, but he is removed from the rugby side (probably a good thing). Far too much say in the rugby management lies with the Ulster Branch and that is where things need to change - at grass roots.

by geoff999rugby Mon 15 May 2017, 2:10 pm

I largely agree with that article except the bit about Anscombe getting shafted.
No he wasn't he was conducting himself in a totally unacceptable manner and was sacked.
As a aside he was also a man who had his favourites - not good for the team as a whole.

The comments on player power are fair but again two caveats.
1 - When McCall was the victim of player power the players got more backing from the CEO than McCall did - blame him.
2 - When McGlocks was in charge the player power was controlled and manged brilliant by Muller because everything respected him and he was a class act.
Take the class act away and anarchic ensues, throw in a weak Head Coach and other Coaches out of their depth and get you get last year.

We need a coach running the place with a rod of iron next year, hopefully that is Gibbes.
No one is too big to be kicked out if they don't buckle under, in the long term we will benefit

by Don Alfonso Mon 15 May 2017, 2:30 pm

So I see that Virginia RFC won the Ulster U16s Cup Final.

Expansion of the sport at underage levels. All to the good.

by rapidsnowman Tue 16 May 2017, 7:09 am

One thing that surprises me, if the Ulster dressing room has been so toxic and unsavory over the last number of years, why has someone like Pienaar who is obviously a decent upright bloke and has seen things done in a professional way in other places been so keen to stay at Ulster.

Is the Northern Ireland actually the big draw for him rather than Ulster rugby?

by geoff999rugby Tue 16 May 2017, 9:52 am

Well it wasn't toxic whilst Muller was here as he kept control.

The bad periods were before his time and the last 18 months, since Kiss took charge, so reasonable to suggest Pienaer was committed to Ulster before it all went pear shaped.

Also the coaching changes for next year means he could have reasonably expected things to improve next year.

by Pete330v2 Tue 16 May 2017, 10:06 am

I think the article was well written although the author does fail to mention the disproportionate treatment doled out by the IRFU. It does however go some ways to inform the non-forum rugby fans out there about the problems Ulster Rugby created for itself like some kind of self-destructive sentient entity.
I really do hope things can change next season with the new coaches coming into the structure but I fear there's too much of the old, dead wood remaining with the head of the beast still in office.

by Redman Tue 16 May 2017, 1:07 pm

Happy for Stockdale and Treadwell. Massive fall from grace for Herring though. Unless he's injured I'd have bet he was nailed on for this tour 1-2 years ago. Can't really argue in form though.

by marty2086 Tue 16 May 2017, 1:29 pm

Herring was lucky making Ulsters bench never mind an Ireland squad, he was shocking in the second half of the season. John Andrew can feel hard done by not getting more game time and getting an opportunity to put his hand up

by Maine man Tue 16 May 2017, 4:16 pm

I've been impressed by John Andrew every time I've seen him this year. Would prefer to see him start over Herring at the start of next season. Also is there any news on the captaincy for next year? Please tell me they are getting rid of the duel role.

by marty2086 Tue 16 May 2017, 4:21 pm

Maine man wrote:I've been impressed by John Andrew every time I've seen him this year. Would prefer to see him start over Herring at the start of next season. Also is there any news on the captaincy for next year? Please tell me they are getting rid of the duel role.

No I've heard it's definitely pistols at dawn to get the job Whistle

by Maine man Tue 16 May 2017, 4:31 pm

Well played marty. Just spotted my spelling error. I blame a weekend drinking ipas in Edinburgh. If this was on an Ireland thread I'd blame Joe

by geoff999rugby Tue 16 May 2017, 4:47 pm

Agree Herring was 3rd/4th choice for Ireland a couple of years back - now about 8th and in many peoples view at the club falling behind John Andrew.

Andrew getting 3 not 2 years says a lot.

by Pete330v2 Wed 17 May 2017, 12:48 pm

Injury update:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39947456

When did Piutau get crocked? Leinster game?

Good news, if true about Olding.

Herbst is the perpetual sicknote now.

by Don Alfonso Wed 17 May 2017, 12:53 pm

Olding back before the start of next season apparently.

Delighted for Stockdale and Treadwell - just desserts. I think Reidy, on his performances, has earned a place ahead of TOD (and JOD on the back of this season, although JOD is younger and has a great deal of promise, so understandable that he's there).

Andrew showed a lot of promise this season I thought - bit of oomph and good work rate. If Herring doesn't get back to where he was, I'd want Andrew to leapfrog him.

by marty2086 Wed 17 May 2017, 3:09 pm

As the old saying goes, you don't know what you've got until it's gone. When Marcell Coetzee arrived in Ulster last summer with a knee injury sustained playing for his old side the Sharks, it was seen as a cruel twist of fate for the player, not an insurmountable obstacle to Ulster's 2016/17 ambitions.

With an optimistic return date set for around Christmas, and the injury only expected to rob him of half a season in a three-year deal, the abrasive flanker's absence was the cause of frustration rather than despair among the faithful.

But when the 26-year-old Springbok returned to action in February - with Ulster's season already hanging in the balance - he offered a tantalising glimpse of what he can bring to Les Kiss's back-row, showing exactly what had been absent throughout a lacklustre campaign.

For a player not known solely as a carrier in his homeland, he racked up 26 in his first hour wearing an Ulster jersey, bringing real balance to a loose-forward trio that was also set to contain Sean Reidy and Chris Henry.

As such, when he suffered another injury and required season-ending surgery, it was no longer an inconvenience but a disaster.

Any momentum it seemed had been building since his return, admittedly thanks to wins against sub-par opposition, dissipated into the Belfast air that March evening against Zebre, even as the hosts ran in 10 tries.

And for all the usual player proclamations that this is a sport in which injuries are inevitable, you have to imagine the squad felt it too as the season marched limply to a conclusion.

"It was such a disappointing year," Coetzee admitted.

"You had your four games and then all of a sudden that was it.

"It's been unfortunate, especially coming into the play-off run when there were a lot of big matches to be playing.

"We were building momentum, we had six wins in a row, then it all went a bit askew.

"It's been a frustrating season not just for me but for everyone. We have the players, we have the quality, we just have to build on that. We have to identify the mistakes that we made and put that right next season."

The good news for Ulster and their supporters is that Coetzee believes that, this time, he will be ready from the off.

His second knee injury of the past 12 months was not of the same severity as the first, with the damage being done to his medial meniscal cartilage rather than his surgically repaired ACL.

Indeed, he is already looking forward to the first pre-season friendly ahead of the new campaign.

"Everything is going well at the moment," he said.

"I'm off the crutches for over a month and the rehab group has been excellent.

"Next season, for pre-season, I'll be with the squad already and we're looking forward to it.

"I can't wait even for the friendlies, the hunger is there already. I'm really looking forward to it personally.

"Every time you pull on an Ulster jersey you want to do it justice and yourself justice. As a player, you want to contribute and give your best. There's so much to look forward to for me.

"If I have an injury free year, everything else will really be a bonus after the last few years. I just can't wait to play rugby again."

Things around Kingspan Stadium in his second season will be much different from the first, with several long-serving stalwarts making their exit.

There'll be no Ruan Pienaar or Roger Wilson in the dressing room, while coaches Allen Clarke and Neil Doak are to be replaced by Jono Gibbes and Dwayne Peel.

"Next season, we'll be building a new culture," added Coetzee. "There'll be a lot of changes with new management and some new players into the squad too. It's interesting times to see how that evolves."

One such arrival on the playing side will be Bulls back-rower Arno Botha, himself recently fit again after a knee complaint.

He and Coetzee are well acquainted - indeed when Botha was substituted late in his Springbok debut, it was Coetzee who replaced him - with their association going all the way back to their teenage years.

And Coetzee believes his compatriot can offer something the province have been lacking.

"We had a bit of a competition between ourselves in the junior ranks so it'll be interesting having him as a brother instead of an enemy," he said.

"We've spoken a lot about how I found Ulster, how I found Belfast and I just told him, 'look, you're making a very good decision, actually'. He's a great line-out option, he's a great guy to get you over the advantage line and that's what Ulster needs at the moment."

by johnnymonaghan Thu 18 May 2017, 8:11 am

So Botha has had his contract cancelled - Lets hope Jonno has someone else in mind....
http://m.sarugbymag.co.za

by Don Alfonso Thu 18 May 2017, 8:32 am

Apparently that's now irrelevant, anyway?

http://www.sportsclub.co.za/ulster-not-signing-arno-botha/

Jonny beat me to it. Please let us have someone else in mind. Please.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 18 May 2017, 8:35 am

To be brutally honest - I think that was a wise decision in the end. Coetzee has had enough injury troubles of his own. We don't need another sick note. But as said above, we will need to sign someone pretty fast.

Has to be said though, it sort of sums up UR. It was always going to be a risky signing, let's hope they had an emergency break glass signing. The reality is we are not going to get a top class player this late.

Dominic Ryan would be a welcome addition, he really would.

by johnnymonaghan Thu 18 May 2017, 8:51 am

Agreed. Would Love to see Dom Ryan but he's looking towards the Premiership apparently .... (Leicester are front runners I'm hearing on the grapevine). I'd be surprised if Ulster didn't have a plan "B" regarding Botha. Hopefully someone else has cropped up that represents better value....

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 18 May 2017, 8:52 am

johnnymonaghan wrote:Agreed. Would Love to see Dom Ryan but he's looking towards the Premiership apparently .... (Leicester are front runners I'm hearing on the grapevine). I'd be surprised if Ulster didn't have a plan "B" regarding Botha. Hopefully someone else has cropped up that represents better value....

I wouldn't.

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