UK General Election/Politics

Here's a possible thread for it all, despite the lack of political input from me to start it!

Mods if you want to/can cut and paste the recent obviously political "discussions" from the Anything Goes, here might serve?

It's June - anything but May!

Do any of you live in a marginal constituency?

Never lived in one which would be even close to changing hands. While I have a lot of respect for MPs, have never had one represent me that I would cross the street to pi.. on if he was on fire!

Nice job Teresa, a strong and steady start to hacking off the rest of Europe. I take it Super will be telling her to take her tin hat off, it's quite the conspiracy she's spinning today.

My constituency has changed party over the last 35 years, but I expect that's nothing unusual. Here are the election results I found on Wikipedia. There have been a couple of boundary changes in this period because I distinctly remember having an MP who has been in Parliament since the late 80's but he's not mine now.
1982 - Con
1987 - Con
1992 - Con
1997 - Lab
2001 - Lab
2005 - Con
2010 - Con
2015 - Con

Same Tory MP for 20 years in my constituency, Tim Loughton. He regularly slags of the people he represents on Twitter. He's an utter cockwomble.

Diggers wrote:Nice job Teresa, a strong and steady start to hacking off the rest of Europe. I take it Super will be telling her to take her tin hat off, it's quite the conspiracy she's spinning today.

She's been reading too many US election FBI dossiers.

She's quite mad if you ask me.

The problem is that most of England will lap up stories about the Europeans trying to screw them over. What is funny now is that all the people in England who must have mocked the Americans for following Trump are now fully behind an equally batshit politician.

I see Abbot is going to train Police Officers for £30 each. Can't wait to see them.

I have to agree that Abbot is a complete liability, she is apparently a very good local MP, that's what she should stick to.

McLaren wrote:The problem is that most of England will lap up stories about the Europeans trying to screw them over.  What is funny now is that all the people in England who must have mocked the Americans for following Trump are now fully behind an equally batshit politician.

Totally agree with your 1st sentence.
Don't agree with the 2nd one. I don't think May is crazy but she's just massively out of her depth and doesn't know what to say or do. She's being out-manoeuvred at every step.

Ok, nobody is as equally batshit as Trump, but the comparison does still stand.

Also, don't you mean Britain not England?

raycastleunited wrote:

McLaren wrote:The problem is that most of England will lap up stories about the Europeans trying to screw them over.  What is funny now is that all the people in England who must have mocked the Americans for following Trump are now fully behind an equally batshit politician.

Totally agree with your 1st sentence.
Don't agree with the 2nd one. I don't think May is crazy but she's just massively out of her depth and doesn't know what to say or do. She's being out-manoeuvred at every step.

Six year as Home Secretary, it's not like she doesn't have top job experience - shes actually meant to be a really tough negotiator. I agree though, last night making that statement she just looked anxious, like she was trying to convince herself. Very worrying, no deal beckons - was that on the ballot sheet for Brexit, was that on the side of any buses?

Ray

Isn't #Brexit a problem made by English nationalists? I could be wrong but I doubt those ticking the leave box in England gave a second thought to Wales, NI or Scotland.

You could reverse that too Mac couldn't you. Do you think the people voting Remain gave a toss about those who wanted to leave? Why would you?

Super

I meant that those voting remain in England were probably more concerned about the idea of English nationalism rather than a nationalism associated with the UK/Britain as a whole. That is not to say they don't care about people in Wales, Scot, NI but that those nations don't form part of their nationalistic ideals.

Some thinking of some English was probably based on "why should we be ruled/run by a central (European) government that we have insufficient power in" whilst at the same time failing to see the parallels with those Welsh/Scottish etc nationalists thinking broadly the same thing about UK/Westminster.

However, the Welsh/Scottish etc nationalists appear, somewhat conversely, to have thought "why should we be ruled/run by a central (British) government that we have insufficient power in" and yet be firmly in favour of being ruled and run by a bigger and more distant central European government in which they would (if independent) have significantly less sway in.

Or, in Ghostbusters parlance, am I crossing the streams here...

McLaren wrote:Ray

Isn't #Brexit a problem made by English nationalists? I could be wrong but I doubt those ticking the leave box in England gave a second thought to Wales, NI or Scotland.

But Wales voted to leave too.

Diggers wrote:Nice job Teresa, a strong and steady start to hacking off the rest of Europe. I take it Super will be telling her to take her tin hat off, it's quite the conspiracy she's spinning today.

Yeah. How dumb is that? Must be some form of brinksmanship, but I don't see it helping us come whatever deal results.

Diggers wrote:I have to agree that Abbot is a complete liability, she is apparently a very good local MP, that's what she should stick to.

She's a hypocrite and a moron.

McLaren wrote:Ray

Isn't #Brexit a problem made by English nationalists? I could be wrong but I doubt those ticking the leave box in England gave a second thought to Wales, NI or Scotland.

Think you'll find Wales voted 'out' as well. Also, I don't think all those life-long Labour voters who voted 'out' would normally be considered as 'English nationalists'.

McLaren wrote:Super

I meant that those voting remain in England were probably more concerned about the idea of English nationalism rather than a nationalism associated with the UK/Britain as a whole.  That is not to say they don't care about people in Wales, Scot, NI but that those nations don't form part of their nationalistic ideals.

You're over-simplifying to a huge degree, but I'm sure there were some whose reasons were that sort of thing.

Just been to cast my local council vote, suffice to say no queue!
Will be interesting how much of an influence these results will have, I know normally they are glossed over, but these could be seen as a bit of an early slighter for how people are feeling, a really big poll if you like.

Did any of you vote in the council elections yesterday?

I went for Greens, Labour then Lib Dems.

Tories winning in Scotland, who would have thought it?

It is beyond my comprehension why people vote Tory, let alone voting for this particular incarnation of the Tory party.

I don't know how a party can con a whole nation for so long.

Mac, I think you could say that for every party in the UK. None of them are worthy of a vote right now. None of them are doing anything which will make we vote for them. Did you vote yesterday in the plastic election? I didn't bother.

See above on whether I voted or not.


But at least the Lib dems, Greens and to some extent Labour and the SNP have policies aimed at helping those who need it. The goal of those parties is decent welfare state and publicly owned NHS. Some of their other policies may or may not be optimal but at least their (ok, maybe not quite for the SNP) core philosophies are about making sure all of society has a chance.

The conservatives and UKIP clearly have an agenda of screwing large segments of society over with no admirable core philosophies. Yet people vote for them in droves like Turkeys voting for christmas.

I wonder what level of wealth you need to have to do ok under a Tory regime and what proportion of the population in general and the people voting Tory actually achieve that wealth level. I reckon a very small proportion, which is just baffling.

Mac, you seem to be dead against people who are wealthy. Why do you despise them so much and begrudge them their hard work and endeavour?

UKIP are dead, which is good. But they are only dead because the Tories are basically UKIP. It would seem that UKIP supporters were just (further) right wing tories, now happy to return.

Is anyone against the wealthy? Or are people against the wealthy that tax dodge and treat people like sh*t. Something really needs to be done about it, but wont.

Mac seems to think there's something inherently wrong with having money, that somehow you're a traitor to the common man and he doesn't seem to be happy for anyone that's pulled themselves out of the mire and that somehow having money automatically makes you a Tory supporter.

Probably the politics of envy.

Plenty peasants treat people like sh*t too, I don't hear Mac moaning about them though. As usual, only sees one side of the story.

beninho wrote:UKIP are dead, which is good. But they are only dead because the Tories are basically UKIP. It would seem that UKIP supporters were just (further) right wing tories, now happy to return.

Is anyone against the wealthy? Or are people against the wealthy that tax dodge and treat people like sh*t. Something really needs to be done about it, but wont.

Nothing against the wealthy. Bit worried about the toff todger suckers who have to defend the poor dears though.
I only have contempt for those who make a fortune from the public purse or use their power to corrupt the less fortunate.

Oh and the lickspittles who defend the poor dears.

Super

Not sure what my like or dislike of the wealthy has to do with my comment above. The point is that many people in the country are casting votes for a party that has polices that will harm those less well off or who need welfare from the state in one form or another. I don't care if there are wealthy people out there, but I would like to know why those that are not wealthy and who will need a public NHS or welfare from the state are voting Tory?

Do they have a complete ignorance of what is going on or does the lure of the Tories non financial right wing policies like hard brexit and anti immigration supersede obliteration of government services?

As I said above it is like Turkeys voting for Christmas or like rednecks voting for the GOP in the US.

Why don't' you ask them Mac instead of just surmising why they are voting Tory?

Super

Ok then, I will ask you.

Why do you vote Tory?

Seems strange that a council seat was decided on the drawing of straws, which decided the overall control of a council. CLICK HERE

McLaren wrote:Super

Ok then, I will ask you.

Why do you vote Tory?

I've never voted Tory Mac.

McLaren wrote:Did any of you vote in the council elections yesterday?

I went for Greens, Labour then Lib Dems.

Nope.

Super

So who do you vote for?

I told you Mac, I didn't vote in the pointless council elections.

You clearly know I meant who have you voted for in all past elections that you have voted in.

I don't really understand why a local election is pointless. It's not like they are without power, in some ways you may feel the influence of local councils more than you do national government, it's just that you aren't as aware of it happening.
For me it's a, "I can't be arsed" scenario - which is fine. Let's just not pretend it's anything deeper than that.

Diggers wrote:I don't really understand why a local election is pointless. It's not like they are without power, in some ways you may feel the influence of local councils more than you do national government, it's just that you aren't as aware of it happening.

McLaren wrote:You clearly know I meant who have you voted for in all past elections that you have voted in.

Last general election I voted Lib Dem Mac.

Diggers wrote:I don't really understand why a local election is pointless. It's not like they are without power, in some ways you may feel the influence of local councils more than you do national government, it's just that you aren't as aware of it happening.
For me it's a, "I can't be arsed" scenario - which is fine. Let's just not pretend it's anything deeper than that.

No, I would be bothered to vote if I felt that local councils did anything which I thought was worth a vote. I don't really care about the party which claims it will pick up my rubbish more often.

In Scotland we have MP's, then MSP's then Councillors. The decisions left to a third level of politics will not be worth much to me. Perhaps in England where you don't have the waste of space of the Scottish Parliament, but I've never had much call to bother a council.

Diggers wrote: in some ways you may feel the influence of local councils more than you do national government

Totally agree with this Diggers. And to turn it on its head, you have a lot more chance of influencing/changing decisions at a local level. I'm lobbying my local council to change the parking fees to the way I and a club I belong to want it, not the way they originally proposed. We have a trial going on which hopefully will be a success (in our favour) and will be confirmed permanently.

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:I don't really understand why a local election is pointless. It's not like they are without power, in some ways you may feel the influence of local councils more than you do national government, it's just that you aren't as aware of it happening.
For me it's a, "I can't be arsed" scenario - which is fine. Let's just not pretend it's anything deeper than that.

No, I would be bothered to vote if I felt that local councils did anything which I thought was worth a vote. I don't really care about the party which claims it will pick up my rubbish more often.

In Scotland we have MP's, then MSP's then Councillors. The decisions left to a third level of politics will not be worth much to me. Perhaps in England where you don't have the waste of space of the Scottish Parliament, but I've never had much call to bother a council.

So you don't care whats built around you? You don't care about how the repairs to your roads are carried out? You don't care about how social housing ratios? You don't care about how green spaces are maintained and developed? You don't care about how social services in your area are ran?