Mayweather vs Ortiz

First topic message reminder :

It's on. Sept 17th for Ortiz's WBC title. Thoughts?

Thing to consider is for all his many gifts sheer concussive power at welter is not one in Floyd's arsenal. Personally because of this I don't feel there is too much to infer from the Maidana result, because whatever else you can say for Marcos, the guy can bang a bit.

For me this is, outside of the obvious, as good a match up as can be made at welter. Ortiz has ability and is obviously coming off the back of a great fight and win.

Shantel

Just been across there to see your link and thought i'd have a look at the main boxing page... seen you claiming it's the best forum out there... really?

25 comments or so vs 40,000+ here and literally all the old boxing board members are here to boot. Yup, that's real quality there.

By all means go there and "debate" with D4 who has finally appeared to get the message that no-one wanted to debate with him here.

Mind the door on the way out sunshine!

No odds on the FMJ fight yet, i'm fully expecting FMJ to win but by what method? Ortiz has always been easy to hit but has he finally got his head sorted (family problems apparently cleared up and it did show how he walked through walls against Berto) to last getting picked off with power shots like Hatton did?

Personally i think FMJ either wins by very late stoppage or by UD

Absolutley agree with Sugar boy sweetie. I dont pay much attention to the out of ring soap opera stuff but what Floyd does with the gloves on i dont think we have owt to come close at the moment. Obviously the Floyd & Manny debate will rage forever but in terms of style & watching knowledge & skill then PBF is right up with modern day greats.

This is a dangerous fight & obviously Ortiz will raise his game again but i think Floyd has shown even if they do get through his defence then his chin can stand it. I just hope neither Manny or Floyd make any disastrous mistakes in their fights.

Coxy0001: No odds on the FMJ fight yet, i'm fully expecting FMJ to win but by what method?
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I'm backing him by clear UD all day long. Not powerful enough or a big enough risk taker to ko Ortiz. Unless victor literally walks face first onto a money shot in hatton style I see floyd being happy to get 12 rounds under his belt and prod and pick his way to a decision.

Re: D4, well I wondered where he'd disappeared to these last few weeks - although doesn't look like there's much debate going on at ja606 boxing wise. He'll be back here soon enough - this news is just the excuse he needs to write a barrage of anti mayweather - pro manny articles (which will then get merged and spoil his fun ha ha). Don't really see how anyone can knock mayweather for this though, pacquiao signed to fight Marquez about a week after the mosley fight - presumably in an attempt at repairing his damaged rep after that farce, which leaves Ortiz as the highest ranked welter available.

I can't see Ortiz beating Floyd he did well against Berto but was floored a couple of times. This is to much of a jump up in class for Ortiz I thought he would have had any easy first defence.

Berto is wide open and comes forward without any invitation. Floyd loves fighting guys like him they play to his strengths.

This a legitmate fight and much better than all of Pacquio's recent opponents to be fair.

I respect Floyd for this fight, Pac goes for a fat/old lightweight and Floyd takes on a young hungry champion who is just coming off of a career best win!
Where's D4 nowadays? I would love to hear him say how Ortiz is rubbish and JMM is the absolute beast at 147lbs!

Peacehaven whilst I can see the obvious amusement in seeing how D4 tries to spin his way out of giving Floyd any respect for this, be careful what you wish for.

Rowley, I know he annoys some people but I find his posts soooooo funny! He is off his head!

I think he would say how JMM is the toughest and most brutal puncher that is fighting at WW. Remember how he said Manny was the most devastating puncher in history at WW! lmfao! How many men has Manny stopped at 147 again?? 0! lol

peacehaven

Europe wouldn't want to see the black plague again, the same applies for this board and D4.

If you wish to debate with him because he's "sooooo funny" then by all means go to ja606.com or whatever it is and entertain yourself with him there.

When Floyd returned from his initial 2 year lay-off, I predicted he would be matched with Berto for the WBC strap. Just curse my rotten luck that it's the wrong time and the wrong fighter...but I was close (ish)

Coxy, take a deep breath mate. Does he really get on your jubblies that much?

Floyd will dominate the southpaw Ortiz just like he will when he meets Pac.

So what you are telling us Dave is you got both the time and the fighter wrong. Got to be honest think you would have an uphill struggle getting the bookies to pay out on that one.

Peacehavenboy wrote:Coxy, take a deep breath mate. Does he really get on your jubblies that much?

Floyd will dominate the southpaw Ortiz just like he will when he meets Pac.

He drove posters away from both this and the old 606

I don't care if you think he's amusing because what he says is "off his head" esque. I for one am beyond happy he's gone.

I'd rather discuss all things boxing rather than the same subject over and over.

rowley wrote:So what you are telling us Dave is you got both the time and the fighter wrong. Got to be honest think you would have an uphill struggle getting the bookies to pay out on that one.

True...however, the way I look at it is this...Mayweather is once again returning from a long lay-off....and he would have been facing Berto (and thus I would have gotten away with it) if it hadn't been for that pesky Ortiz kid!

Again, I agree with your original assessment that I was completely wrong but I'm putting a positive spin on it

coxy0001 wrote:

Peacehavenboy wrote:Coxy, take a deep breath mate. Does he really get on your jubblies that much?

Floyd will dominate the southpaw Ortiz just like he will when he meets Pac.

He drove posters away from both this and the old 606

I don't care if you think he's amusing because what he says is "off his head" esque. I for one am beyond happy he's gone.

I'd rather discuss all things boxing rather than the same subject over and over.

Coxy, take a deep breath mate. Does he really get on your jubblies that much?

Floyd will dominate the southpaw Ortiz just like he will when he meets Pac.
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Mayweather couldn't break an egg and he's in with a relentless banger who will go for him from the get go, if this fight goes ahead its a monumental risk imo for a fighter who fights once every 2 years. The Pacquiao talk is getting boring now, Manny's in his head big time, but let's talk Ortiz v Mayweather

Mayweather couldn't break an egg....

Mayweather will win a UD. Might be a bit rusty early, but Ortiz is easy to hit with a right hand and Mayweather has a very accurate one.

Young_Towzer wrote:Coxy, take a deep breath mate. Does he really get on your jubblies that much?

Floyd will dominate the southpaw Ortiz just like he will when he meets Pac.
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Mayweather couldn't break an egg and he's in with a relentless banger who will go for him from the get go, if this fight goes ahead its a monumental risk imo for a fighter who fights once every 2 years. The Pacquiao talk is getting boring now, Manny's in his head big time, but let's talk Ortiz v Mayweather

A relentless banger!!??

He has a good punch, thats a given, but I think you are rippin the @rse out of Ortiz slightly.

The Berto fight showed that Ortiz wanted to put the "quitter" label behind him, which he did.

But he is going to be on the biggest platform he will EVER be on and against a fighter like no other out there at the minute or the immediate future.

Ortiz has no experience at the top of the P4P tree and this will be a massive ask. But one that he will surely fall short of. If Maidana and Berto can knock him about like a wet lettace, imagine the fun that Floyd will have with him.

The thing about Mayweather's lay offs is they make people forget exactly what kind of animal he is. Ortiz is too easy to hit and is vunerable. Mayweather is not. Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide UD to Mayweather. Mayweather has been in with bigger punchers and made them look silly. Same will happen here.

The thing about Mayweather's lay offs is they make people forget exactly what kind of animal he is. Ortiz is too easy to hit and is vunerable. Mayweather is not. Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide UD to Mayweather. Mayweather has been in with bigger punchers and made them look silly. Same will happen here.
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Will it? I don't think it will, Mayweather hasn't been in with a bigger banger than Ortiz at LWW or WW you're talking rubbish, Ortiz will give him a much harder fight than a fat lightweight in Marquez and past it Mosley, so i'm all for it, would love Ortiz to destroy him and him be humbled. PS Ortiz has always been relentless in the way he attacks guys, he's vulnerable also but he's always exciting. Can see Mayweather having to get off the floor whatever happens

On the basis that one can't expect Floyd to come straight back and fight Manny, can't complain about this fight and look forward to seeing Floyd back in action with some real hope that this is a prelude to a fight with Manny early next year.

Can't help thinking that Manny's rather sluggish performance against Shane may have helped influence Floyd that it was a good time to return.

Young_Towzer wrote:The thing about Mayweather's lay offs is they make people forget exactly what kind of animal he is. Ortiz is too easy to hit and is vunerable. Mayweather is not. Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide UD to Mayweather. Mayweather has been in with bigger punchers and made them look silly. Same will happen here.
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Will it? I don't think it will, Mayweather hasn't been in with a bigger banger than Ortiz at LWW or WW you're talking rubbish, Ortiz will give him a much harder fight than a fat lightweight in Marquez and past it Mosley, so i'm all for it, would love Ortiz to destroy him and him be humbled. PS Ortiz has always been relentless in the way he attacks guys, he's vulnerable also but he's always exciting. Can see Mayweather having to get off the floor whatever happens

Ortiz looked good against Berto as he had a fighter standing in front of him with no real defence. What will Ortiz do when he realises that he can't hit his opponent. His relentless banging will be useless as hitting thin air doesn't win you rounds. And just for the counter-arguement, Beating Berto doesn't make Ortiz the next Mike Tyson. I would expect Marquez to give Ortiz fits and win as Ortiz would be tailor made for a sharp counterpuncher. And he is gonna be in against the best of his generation.

On the basis that one can't expect Floyd to come straight back and fight Manny, can't complain about this fight and look forward to seeing Floyd back in action with some real hope that this is a prelude to a fight with Manny early next year.

Can't help thinking that Manny's rather sluggish performance against Shane may have helped influence Floyd that it was a good time to return.
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Pacquiao wasnt at his best last time, but still dropped a guy with a quality chin, won every round and remained unbeaten since 2005, an awful night, eh?. However, i think Mayweather handpicks guys at will, but i give him credit where its due here, he's fighting a good quality fighter who is young and hungry and who will trouble him imo.

Ortiz looked good against Berto as he had a fighter standing in front of him with no real defence. What will Ortiz do when he realises that he can't hit his opponent. His relentless banging will be useless as hitting thin air doesn't win you rounds. And just for the counter-arguement, Beating Berto doesn't make Ortiz the next Mike Tyson. I would expect Marquez to give Ortiz fits and win as Ortiz would be tailor made for a sharp counterpuncher. And he is gonna be in against the best of his generation.
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Mayweather can be hit and imo his reflexes are slowing, Mosley caught him and nearly knocked him spark out, if Ortiz catches him he'll be able to pull the trigger, he's not Pernell Whitaker or Marlon Starling defence wise, he can be hit, and hit well. Ortiz isn't the next Tyson and thank god, imagine him getting sparked off Baldomir in a defence ie Douglas!. And he isn't fighting Pacquiao ie best of his generation

Young_Towzer wrote:Coxy, take a deep breath mate. Does he really get on your jubblies that much?

Floyd will dominate the southpaw Ortiz just like he will when he meets Pac.
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Mayweather couldn't break an egg and he's in with a relentless banger who will go for him from the get go, if this fight goes ahead its a monumental risk imo for a fighter who fights once every 2 years. The Pacquiao talk is getting boring now, Manny's in his head big time, but let's talk Ortiz v Mayweather

Steady on fella. I remember you being quite convinced that Degale would have Groves out of there early...

Whilst this isn't the fight that I really, really want to see Mayweather in (that distinction belongs to Pacquiao at Welterweight or Martinez at Light Middleweight) this is still a good match up.

Provided that Mayweather hasn't slowed down to a ridiculous degree during his layoff I can see him winning a wide UD or late TKO, as per the majority of posters here are predicting. However, even without his speed he could dominate/compete for a long time against any Top 10 Welterweight due to his skills - similar to Hopkins in this respect. I give Ortiz a puncher's chance, nothing more, nothing less. He might make it interesting in spots, which you couldn't say about the Mosley fight.

DAVE667 wrote:When Floyd returned from his initial 2 year lay-off, I predicted he would be matched with Berto for the WBC strap. Just curse my rotten luck that it's the wrong time and the wrong fighter...but I was close (ish)

Floyd must really love the WBC belt for some reason; throughout all the weight divisions he's won titles it's always the WBC belt he's captured, with the one-time exception of the IBF belt he picked up from Zab Judah. It does kind of make a mockery of his statement before the Mosley fight that belts were worthless and just gather dust - if this is the case why fight for it?

Steady on fella. I remember you being quite convinced that Degale would have Groves out of there early...
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Yeah, i always hold my hands up when im wrong, i think Mayweather will win the Ortiz fight and be dropped on the way to a points win. I hope Ortiz wins because i hate everything Mayweather does/is, however ie DeGale, i thought he'd blow him out, so what.

I also said Crolla would stop Watson
El Maachi would win prizefighter
Burns would beat Martinez
and many others

with the one-time exception of the IBF belt he picked up from Zab Judah
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What they gave Judah an IBF title even though Baldomir the journeyman had just battered him, don't laugh!

Can't see Ortiz doing it. Mayweather will box him to pieces. I agree, late stoppage or wide UD with Ortiz paying a fair few visits to the canvas throughout.

Mayweather makes Ortiz miss most of the fight and cruises to a wide UD. Unless Victor gets lucky I can't see much else happening (maybe accumulation of punches forcing the ref's intervention)...

Whatever happens kudos to Ortiz. I'm sure he could have had an easier first defence of his title. Always liked him even after the whole Maidana debacle and he seems willing to fight the best.

As for the fight can only see a PBF ud but with Ortiz giving it a good go. But with his lack of a jab to set things up and easiness to hit can see him losing nearly every round. If Maidana can land that looping right of his I dread to think how many times Flyod will land when he does actually bother to throw a punch.

Young_Towzer wrote:Steady on fella. I remember you being quite convinced that Degale would have Groves out of there early...
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Yeah, i always hold my hands up when im wrong, i think Mayweather will win the Ortiz fight and be dropped on the way to a points win. I hope Ortiz wins because i hate everything Mayweather does/is, however ie DeGale, i thought he'd blow him out, so what.

I also said Crolla would stop Watson
El Maachi would win prizefighter
Burns would beat Martinez
and many others

Yeah, I know you held your hand up-I gave you credit when you did...it was just a reminder that you sometimes get a wee bit carried away.

Mosley had proven he was a bigger puncher than Ortiz, stopping the iron chinned Margarito is no mean feat and whilst Ortiz looks to have decent power it's nothing for Mayweather to worry about as he simply wont get caught flush by him.

As for the fight can only see a PBF ud but with Ortiz giving it a good go. But with his lack of a jab to set things up and easiness to hit can see him losing nearly every round. If Maidana can land that looping right of his I dread to think how many times Flyod will land when he does actually bother to throw a punch.
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I think the speed of Ortiz paves the way for many shots on that chin of Mayweather, if he never seen a 38 year old nearly lay him clean out he's gonna be troubled by the speed of Ortiz imo.

Mosley had proven he was a bigger puncher than Ortiz, stopping the iron chinned Margarito is no mean feat and whilst Ortiz looks to have decent power it's nothing for Mayweather to worry about as he simply wont get caught flush by him.
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If a finished Mosley caught him flush, Ortiz will

Mosley still had the hand speed and accuracy to do so, Ortiz doesn't punch as hard so doubt he'll buckle the legs of Mayweather in the same way

Mosley still had the hand speed and accuracy to do so, Ortiz doesn't punch as hard so doubt he'll buckle the legs of Mayweather in the same way
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lets wait and see, sept 17th, be there or be circle

You have to give Ortiz some credit. he has shown some serious huevas is taking this fight after the berto FOTY candidate. I believe it will be a wide UD for Floyd. The first couple of rounds will be shared until Floyd steps on the gas. Ortiz will present a far stiffer test than Pac who is absolutely made for a fighter like Floyd. The overblown hype machine will get peppered and I believe Floyd will go out there to punish him.

Floyd will win after a couple of tough moments early. Hopefully will display the slightly more aggressive style he showed against Mosley.

I think the speed of Ortiz paves the way for many shots on that chin of Mayweather, if he never seen a 38 year old nearly lay him clean out he's gonna be troubled by the speed of Ortiz imo.
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Ortiz is quick but hes not that quick and he can be quite wild with his punches. He also loads up on nearly every punch which makes it easier for PBF to make him miss and frustrate him.

I hope you're right would love to see Ortiz give him a fight. Said it before but fair play to him he'll fight anyone.

You have to give Ortiz some credit. he has shown some serious huevas is taking this fight after the berto FOTY candidate.
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Of course, getting the biggest payday of his career probably doesn't factor into the equation does it?

You have to give Ortiz some credit. he has shown some serious huevas is taking this fight after the berto FOTY candidate. I believe it will be a wide UD for Floyd. The first couple of rounds will be shared until Floyd steps on the gas. Ortiz will present a far stiffer test than Pac who is absolutely made for a fighter like Floyd. The overblown hype machine will get peppered and I believe Floyd will go out there to punish him.
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If he fought Pacquiao, Mayweather, he'd quit on his stool ala Don Curry, with a broken nose and heartbroken. Who's an hype machine? either way you sound daft if it's Ortiz he's just battered a genuine WBC champ in foty, or Pacquiao, he's only a 6 weight world champ or whatever it is and the best boxer in the world. Mayweather's made for Manny, lazy and no hunger to fight the best.

DAVE667 wrote:You have to give Ortiz some credit. he has shown some serious huevas is taking this fight after the berto FOTY candidate.
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Of course, getting the biggest payday of his career probably doesn't factor into the equation does it?

That will help soothe the numerous bumps he will get. If Floyd comes knocking, people answer. he is Money!!! Ortiz will take all tests asked of him without making feeble excuses.

Young_Towzer wrote:You have to give Ortiz some credit. he has shown some serious huevas is taking this fight after the berto FOTY candidate. I believe it will be a wide UD for Floyd. The first couple of rounds will be shared until Floyd steps on the gas. Ortiz will present a far stiffer test than Pac who is absolutely made for a fighter like Floyd. The overblown hype machine will get peppered and I believe Floyd will go out there to punish him.
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If he fought Pacquiao, Mayweather, he'd quit on his stool ala Don Curry, with a broken nose and heartbroken. Who's an hype machine? either way you sound daft if it's Ortiz he's just battered a genuine WBC champ in foty, or Pacquiao, he's only a 6 weight world champ or whatever it is and the best boxer in the world. Mayweather's made for Manny, lazy and no hunger to fight the best.

Kid, I think you should go study for your gcses. Study hard as you're not doing very well so far.

But, why would he quit on his stool? Ortiz is well aware that if he loses but puts up a decent performance, his stock would rise higher than if he rematched Berto and won.

Pac's style is made for a sharpshooter like Floyd. If JMM could beat Pac twice, Floyd will school him with absolute ease. It would be a shut out before Floyd ktfo of him by R9.

Why is the supposed best p4p fighter fighting Floyd's leftovers with alarming regularity?

You have to give Ortiz some credit. he has shown some serious huevas is taking this fight after the berto FOTY candidate.
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Of course, getting the biggest payday of his career probably doesn't factor into the equation does it?
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Cynical as always Dave ay.? I'm sure Ortiz could have made a couple of easier defences, made decent money and nursed his title a bit but jumped straight in with Flyod. Obviously the money helps but hes young and had loads of time to make his money. Seems genuinely interested in fighting anyone. Credit where its due.

Kid, I think you should go study for your gcses. Study hard as you're not doing very well so far.

But, why would he quit on his stool? Ortiz is well aware that if he loses but puts up a decent performance, his stock would rise higher than if he rematched Berto and won.

Pac's style is made for a sharpshooter like Floyd. If JMM could beat Pac twice, Floyd will school him with absolute ease. It would be a shut out before Floyd ktfo of him by R9.

Why is the supposed best p4p fighter fighting Floyd's leftovers with alarming regularity?
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i didn't know Mayweather had fought Cotto, Clottey, Margarito. I know he said he'd fight all 3 at various times, but definitely ducked Cotto and Margarito.

PS, Is it a wind up why your a MOD lol?

Young_Towzer wrote:Kid, I think you should go study for your gcses. Study hard as you're not doing very well so far.

But, why would he quit on his stool? Ortiz is well aware that if he loses but puts up a decent performance, his stock would rise higher than if he rematched Berto and won.

Pac's style is made for a sharpshooter like Floyd. If JMM could beat Pac twice, Floyd will school him with absolute ease. It would be a shut out before Floyd ktfo of him by R9.

Why is the supposed best p4p fighter fighting Floyd's leftovers with alarming regularity?
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i didn't know Mayweather had fought Cotto, Clottey, Margarito. I know he said he'd fight all 3 at various times, but definitely ducked Cotto and Margarito.

PS, Is it a wind up why your a MOD lol?

Oh I know Floyd hasn't fought them. Clottey? Dont make me laugh kiddo. Cotto and Marg had weight stips so I put an asterix on them.

Oh I know Floyd hasn't fought them. Clottey? Dont make me laugh kiddo. Cotto and Marg had weight stips so I put an asterix on them.
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Baldomir and Judah over Cotto/Marg when he said he'd fight them

You a MOD, d4thincarnation will be next!

The thing you have to remember is at the time he fought Baldy and Judah the DLH fight was on the horizon and his welterweight fights at the time were very much to legitimise the chances of him squaring off against Oscar in fans mind and to give him the opportunity to feel his way into the weight without the risk of blowing the Oscar pot of gold out of the water.

As a fan I would much rather him have fought Cotto but you're being very naive about the business side of the game to think any fighter would risk such a mega fight getting bashed up against tough fighters. Is not ideal but it is realistic and we are kidding ourselves if we think anyone else would have done any differently in the cirumstances.