Residency

by Allty Wed 10 May - 8:36

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39868065

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:00

Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales Whistle

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 16:04

marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:05

123456789 wrote:
Cyril wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming.
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

I'm ashamed to say Scotland did this with Nel, put it this way, it's not a coincidence that Nel became eligible around the time Euan Murray retired. It's a very deliberate process. Look at Scotland's depth behind Berghan. Pretty sure Ireland did it with Payne too. If you look at the countries that have project players in their national squads there tends not to be a lot of competition around those positions.

There's several allegations regarding France and the Pacific Islands, even a club setting up a Fijian academy. Not entirely sure on the specifics but I remember it appearing distinctly dodgy.

I wouldn't use the word slavery in the case of Scotland and Ireland but the French way, which I probably don't know quite enough about to make a concrete allegation, comes across very shady.

All Irelands NIQ players need the sign off from the IRFU, I don't think Payne was targeted as being a potential 13 as he came to Ulster to play 15 though that's not to say they didn't have an eye on him as a potential cap in the future, I think Quinn Roux may have been identified but the worst case is Michael Bent who was IQ and was flown in and capped right away

by LordDowlais Wed 10 May - 16:06

123456789 wrote:There's several allegations regarding France and the Pacific Islands, even a club setting up a Fijian academy. Not entirely sure on the specifics but I remember it appearing distinctly dodgy.

That is Brive.

Also, check out what the Australian rugby league are doing, and the rugby union with Fijians/Tongans/Samoans/Cook Islanders ect...

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:07

Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in Rolling Eyes

by Cyril Wed 10 May - 16:08

LordDowlais wrote:
Cyril wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming.
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

It is all on the WWW. Check it. Players being brought over, and just being treated like slaves ect.

Like forcing George North to speak Welsh and renounce his Norfolk roots. Scandalous!

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 16:10

marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

Big talk, please spell out the corrupt practices you are referring to.

by LordDowlais Wed 10 May - 16:11

marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere. Very Happy

by Cyril Wed 10 May - 16:13

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

Yeah, but if you're going to forever besmirch the name of Welsh rugby couldn't you have found some better ones?

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:15

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 16:16

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

You wish...just waiting for you to trot out your little story about granny gate as if not one has ever heard it before. Dull. Rolling Eyes

by LordDowlais Wed 10 May - 16:19

marty2086 wrote:As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

TBH Marty, I do not take what most people say on here too seriously.

But lets be fair here, if we take out all this Welsh players are all English bullsh!t, as we know besides Tomos Francis they have all lived here(Wales) for practically all their lives, Wales are probably the least offenders in the world when it comes to the residency or grandparent rule or project player nonsense.

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:20

Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

You wish...just waiting for you to trot out your little story about granny gate as if not one has ever heard it before. Dull.

Spot the party pooper

When Ireland get the 2023 RWC please don't come visit, you'll kill the craic Rolling Eyes

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 10 May - 16:22

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

TBH Marty, I do not take what most people say on here too seriously.

But lets be fair here, if we take out all this Welsh players are all English bullsh!t, as we know besides Tomos Francis they have all lived here(Wales) for practically all their lives, Wales are probably the least offenders in the world when it comes to the residency or grandparent rule or project player nonsense.

Argentina would be top. South Africa about on a par with Wales (they've capped a handful of Zimbabweans).

I understand Johnny McNicol is keen to play for Wales when he's qualified. Though frankly he's not that good so hopefully Wales can do better

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:24

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

TBH Marty, I do not take what most people say on here too seriously.

But lets be fair here, if we take out all this Welsh players are all English bullsh!t, as we know besides Tomos Francis they have all lived here(Wales) for practically all their lives, Wales are probably the least offenders in the world when it comes to the residency or grandparent rule or project player nonsense.

Sure half the Irish squad weren't born on the island, didn't people have different ideas on nationality and you'll never please everyone

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 16:24

marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

You wish...just waiting for you to trot out your little story about granny gate as if not one has ever heard it before. Dull.

Spot the party pooper

When Ireland get the 2023 RWC please don't come visit, you'll kill the craic

Craic my #$%^

I've been, it was dull and I won't be back. SA now that's a totally different proposition.

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:26

Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

You wish...just waiting for you to trot out your little story about granny gate as if not one has ever heard it before. Dull.

Spot the party pooper

When Ireland get the 2023 RWC please don't come visit, you'll kill the craic

Craic my #$%^

I've been, it was dull and I won't be back. SA now that's a totally different proposition.

Lets be honest, you got turned down by the Irish women but pretended you were Irish in SA

It happens to plenty of others don't worry about it thumbsup

by LordDowlais Wed 10 May - 16:27

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:I understand Johnny McNicol is keen to play for Wales when he's qualified. Though frankly he's not that good so hopefully Wales can do better

Wales would have to be in serious trouble to cap him, especially with the youngsters we have coming through at fullback/wing.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Argentina would be top. South Africa about on a par with Wales (they've capped a handful of Zimbabweans).

Argentina might well be top, but haven't they capped/been capping a few Uruguayans? Also, South Africa have more than a handful of Zimbabweans on their books, and Namibians, I think.

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 16:28

marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

You wish...just waiting for you to trot out your little story about granny gate as if not one has ever heard it before. Dull.

Spot the party pooper

When Ireland get the 2023 RWC please don't come visit, you'll kill the craic

Craic my #$%^

I've been, it was dull and I won't be back. SA now that's a totally different proposition.

Lets be honest, you got turned down by the Irish women but pretended you were Irish in SA

It happens to plenty of others don't worry about it

I bet it happens to you every weekend Laugh

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 16:29

Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

Are we sure about that though? We do know theres some previous there with Wales

REALLY? I'd never heard this, how original, do tell....

Jeez, someones a little touchy almost like they don't like being reminded of some of the corrupt practises their team engages in

The whole grannygate/grandadgate era under Graham Henry is an embarrassment to Welsh rugby, although, in saying that, we did just lose two generations of players to league, so we seriously needed to find players from somewhere.

As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

You wish...just waiting for you to trot out your little story about granny gate as if not one has ever heard it before. Dull.

Spot the party pooper

When Ireland get the 2023 RWC please don't come visit, you'll kill the craic

Craic my #$%^

I've been, it was dull and I won't be back. SA now that's a totally different proposition.

Lets be honest, you got turned down by the Irish women but pretended you were Irish in SA

It happens to plenty of others don't worry about it

I bet it happens to you every weekend

That stings LD! Crying or Very sad

by LordDowlais Wed 10 May - 16:45

marty2086 wrote:That stings LD! Crying or Very sad

What does ? Headscratch

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 16:49

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:That stings LD! Crying or Very sad

What does ?

Well apparently he ahem, 'slipped' on a cactus....gotta sting.

by marty2086 Wed 10 May - 17:00

Gwlad wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:That stings LD! Crying or Very sad

What does ?

Well apparently he ahem, 'slipped' on a cactus....gotta sting.

Making jokes about a very traumatic incident there, just not on Shocked

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 17:08

marty2086 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:That stings LD! Crying or Very sad

What does ?

Well apparently he ahem, 'slipped' on a cactus....gotta sting.

Making jokes about a very traumatic incident there, just not on

Not on, but definitely in

by Guest Wed 10 May - 17:36

Some p1ss poor 'banter' here.

With all this talk of project players, why is no one talking about Sam Burgess as a possible injury replacement for the Lions? We all know the RWC was a bit too soon for him, and I personally haven't seen much of him since then, but it was widely accepted that he'd have 'learnt' Union by this Summer, and therefore would be a viable option. Better than Jamie Roberts, surely?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 10 May - 17:39

He's playing league miaow so not available.

by Gwlad Wed 10 May - 17:51

miaow wrote:Some p1ss poor 'banter' here.

With all this talk of project players, why is no one talking about Sam Burgess as a possible injury replacement for the Lions? We all know the RWC was a bit too soon for him, and I personally haven't seen much of him since then, but it was widely accepted that he'd have 'learnt' Union by this Summer, and therefore would be a viable option. Better than Jamie Roberts, surely?

p1ss poor banter for sure

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 10 May - 18:16

miaow wrote:...why is no one talking about Sam Burgess as a possible injury replacement for the Lions?...

This is entirely the wrong thread for such a discussion but I've often thought about this. I reckon Eddie Jones would have loved Sam Burgess

I suspect he would have put him at centre, just as Lancaster did, because Jones did dabble with Burrell in Australia, and has also favoured Te'o. It's possible Mike Ford could have got Burgess operating as a forward and that might also have suited Jones, given he used Haskell to monster the breakdown.

There's no doubt Burgess prefers playing League, but I'm sure he would have fancied being part of England's tour to Australia, and potentially part of a Lions tour.

He should have switched codes earlier, or stayed longer.

by Exiledinborders Wed 10 May - 23:30

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:As they say, stuff happens, just seems some of your compatriots are a little oversensitive on the issue that was raised in jest

TBH Marty, I do not take what most people say on here too seriously.

But lets be fair here, if we take out all this Welsh players are all English bullsh!t, as we know besides Tomos Francis they have all lived here(Wales) for practically all their lives, Wales are probably the least offenders in the world when it comes to the residency or grandparent rule or project player nonsense.

My view is that the rules are daft and the granny rule should go too. Having said that all teams apply the rules as they are which is fair enough . At the last RWC Wales had one of the highest percentage of players born in other countries but I do not criticise them for it. However you cannot claim that other countries exploit the rules but when Wales do it somehow it does not count.

by Exiledinborders Wed 10 May - 23:33

Rugby Fan wrote:
miaow wrote:...why is no one talking about Sam Burgess as a possible injury replacement for the Lions?...

This is entirely the wrong thread for such a discussion but I've often thought about this. I reckon Eddie Jones would have loved Sam Burgess

I suspect he would have put him at centre, just as Lancaster did, because Jones did dabble with Burrell in Australia, and has also favoured Te'o. It's possible Mike Ford could have got Burgess operating as a forward and that might also have suited Jones, given he used Haskell to monster the breakdown.

There's no doubt Burgess prefers playing League, but I'm sure he would have fancied being part of England's tour to Australia, and potentially part of a Lions tour.

He should have switched codes earlier, or stayed longer.

Or even better not bothered at all.

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 0:13

munkian wrote:Poor Ireland

Why ???
we have only 2 players through Residency - CJ Stander and Payne worth considering

Other countries will be far more badly effected

by Cyril Thu 11 May - 0:19

Stander is your best player though.

I've no idea how Payne is on the Lions tour. That's really weird.

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 0:23

No he isn't

Sexton, Furlong, POM, Murray, Henshaw, Best, SOB would all make the team before him.
Infact, he is in a head to head with Heaslip for the no 8.
Bottom line is Ireland would not be seriously weakened without any residency, or indeed granny qualified players

McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, Heaslip, SOB
Murray, Sexton Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Zebo, Kearney

shows that

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 0:25

Cyril wrote:Stander is your best player though.

I've no idea how Payne is on the Lions tour. That's really weird.

Payne is outstanding at defence organisation, can play 13 and 15 and has knowledge of the game of the opponents

by Cyril Thu 11 May - 0:41

Payne is decent in most areas but not Lions quality.

Stander makes the difference with Ireland,

by Cyril Thu 11 May - 0:44

By the way I wasn't having a go at Payne. He's better than the likes of Earls, Zebo and Kearney. Just very surprised (yet not, as he's a Kiwi) that Gats selected him.

He just seems, um ok.

by munkian Thu 11 May - 8:23

geoff999rugby wrote:No he isn't

Sexton, Furlong, POM, Murray, Henshaw, Best, SOB would all make the team before him.
Infact, he is in a head to head with Heaslip for the no 8.
Bottom line is Ireland would not be seriously weakened without any residency, or indeed granny qualified players

McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, Heaslip, SOB
Murray, Sexton Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Zebo, Kearney

shows that

Heaslip ? I know you Dublin lads were one eyed but Shocked

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 8:48

I'm not from Dublin or a Leinster supporter.
Stander looks very good on the ball but there is a lot in Heaslip game that is valuable.
Infact Stander on the bench to make a real impact in the last 30 mins has a lot going for it - may well be how the Lions use him.
The players I listed are not because they are better players but because in their positions the drop of to the next player is more significant

I think Payne is there for the simple reason he ticks the 3 boxes I mentioned and Gatland sees value in that

by TightHEAD Thu 11 May - 9:01

Just use these rules as it works so well for the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 9:06

Every country has similar.
Here in Northern Ireland the rules are different to the rest of the UK.
What I would insist upon is a requirement to stay in the country the majority of the time after qualifying - Flutey getting residency and then going in France was taking the piss out of the system

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 9:16

On a serious not is the stated date the date players must have completed their residence in order to qualify after 3 years or is it a date before which they can start a three year residency and as such qualify after the date?

Basically a player signed between 1 Jan 2018 till 31 Dec 2020 - do they need 3 years or 5 years of residency?

Pleased to see Japan and Argentina getting more voting rights

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 11 May - 9:29

geoff999rugby wrote:On a serious not is the stated date the date players must have completed their residence in order to qualify after 3 years or is it a date before which they can start a three year residency and as such qualify after the date?

Basically a player signed between 1 Jan 2018 till 31 Dec 2020 - do they need 3 years or 5 years of residency?

Pleased to see Japan and Argentina getting more voting rights

You'd need to have moved to the country before Jan 1 2018 to manage 3 years. That's why they've set the period then, basically it means that anyone who's signed to a European club for next season is still on 3 years

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 9:49

Good did not want to see a mad rush of signing next summer.
As most signings are already in place, for this summer, it minimises signings made just to beat the new deadline.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 11 May - 10:02

geoff999rugby wrote:Bottom line is Ireland would not be seriously weakened without any residency, or indeed granny qualified players

McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, Heaslip, SOB
Murray, Sexton Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Zebo, Kearney

shows that

I am interested to see what Wales and Scotland would look like without ny residency or grandparent players, so only qualifying via birth or parents.

England (trying as hard as possible to go with what EJ may pick): Marler, George, Cole, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Haskell, Clifford, Youngs, Ford, Daly, Farrell, Joseph, Watson, Brown (reps LCD, Genge, Sinckler, Launchbury/Lawes, Wood, Care, Slade, Nowell)

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May - 10:13

Doesn't Hartley qualify on his mother - I was picked up on this recently

Agreed seeing the respective teams with no residency and no grandparent qualification would be interesting

by No 7&1/2 Thu 11 May - 10:19

Yeah you'd suspect jones would have Hartley and te'o in there.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 11 May - 10:20

geoff999rugby wrote:Doesn't Hartley qualify on his mother - I was picked up on this recently

Agreed seeing the respective teams with no residency and no grandparent qualification would be interesting

That is very true, as does Te'o (and Clifford who I did remember)

by **LondonTiger** Thu 11 May - 10:22

I think Wales only lose Francis, Faletau and North from their 6Ns side, but not sure.

by munkian Thu 11 May - 10:38

LondonTiger wrote:I think Wales only lose Francis, Faletau and North from their 6Ns side, but not sure.

Nope, North's Mother is Welsh, he's also lived in Wales since he was two.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 11 May - 10:45

munkian wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I think Wales only lose Francis, Faletau and North from their 6Ns side, but not sure.

Nope, North's Mother is Welsh, he's also lived in Wales since he was two.

Mother saves him, but residency doe not. this was purely talking about birth or parent.

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