Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 17 - Almost Legal

[Hazel Sapling]

First topic message reminder :



Glasgow Warriors & Edinburgh

The Histories:

Guiness Pro 12
Edinburgh Rugby
Glasgow Warriors

Edinburgh Rugby Highlights 2016/2017
Glasgow Warriors Pro 12 Highlights 2016/2017  

[R!skysports]

Is this a safe place? Are was safe from the dreaded letters J A W (not in that order).

[George Carlin]

George, when were you talking with MrsPip?

Reminds me of the heckle from some punter to Johnny Vegas:

- Drunken Bamstick:"My girlfriend hates you, you fat f*cker".
- Vegas: "Your girlfriend hates me? That's because I left this morning without saying goodbye".

[RDW]

Is this a safe place? Are was safe from the dreaded letters J  A  W (not in that order).

You're in a safe place R!sky!

[RuggerRadge2611]

According to a Twitter source, Cockers management style is already ruffling feathers. Apparently he has brought every player into a one on one session and torn new ring pieces for the bulk of the squad....

[RDW]

Name your source Radge!

[George Carlin]

Name your source Radge!

[jimbopip]

George, when were you talking with MrsPip?

Reminds me of the heckle from some punter to Johnny Vegas:

- Drunken Bamstick:"My girlfriend hates you, you fat f*cker".
- Vegas: "Your girlfriend hates me? That's because I left this morning without saying goodbye".

- Angry woman at a Male Strip Club: "I thought this was a schlong show!"
- Compere: "Don't worry madam, they get longer as the evening progresses."
- Angry woman: "In that case I'll be back tomorrow night."

[jimbopip]

According to a Twitter source, Cockers management style is already ruffling feathers. Apparently he has brought every player into a one on one session and torn new ring pieces for the bulk of the squad....

Yes and for the really underperforming ones he made them read Schiz's critiques of their performances.

[RDW]

I feel sorry for Grant Gilchrist - his review can't have been pleasant.

[Hazel Sapling]

According to a Twitter source, Cockers management style is already ruffling feathers. Apparently he has brought every player into a one on one session and torn new ring pieces for the bulk of the squad....

Not sure what most of them were expecting. Newport were almost better than them and they have 1-2 squad internationals. Cockers is used to winning and having a mentally tough squad. By next February, they will be capable of beating Scarlets rather than losing by a point.

[Eejit]

Big Chewie has signed for London Scottish.

[des]

According to a Twitter source, Cockers management style is already ruffling feathers. Apparently he has brought every player into a one on one session and torn new ring pieces for the bulk of the squad....

Not sure what most of them were expecting. Newport were almost better than them and they have 1-2 squad internationals. Cockers is used to winning and having a mentally tough squad. By next February, they will be capable of beating Scarlets rather than losing by a point.

We beat the Scarlets last year.  

That was Weir's one good league game though.  When Liam Williams made a mess of fielding a kick.  He didn't look like a lion that night.

Anyone else noticed the correlation between our move to Myreside and a massive slump in home form?  I'm not saying we were good just that training on a reasonable quality, flat pitch isn't particularly good prep for playing at Myreside.

[RuggerRadge2611]

I tried but GC's profanity has bounced this thread on the work's firewall

[George Carlin]

I tried but GC's profanity has bounced this thread on the work's firewall

[RDW]

Interesting and honest interview with Cockerill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_xv86RVo-o&feature=em-uploademail

[jimbopip]

Richard Cockers, "...an identity! Which we need to find; because , clearly, no one can tell me what that is."

Schiz, Bru, GC, Big Gee et al, "WE ARE  Warriors , we are Warriors"

Discuss.

[RDW]

Interesting that he says 'most' players have bought into the new regime - I suspect the ones that haven't won't last long!

He strikes me as a coach players will be scared getting on the wrong side of - much more like VC in that regard. I don't think Hodge could scare anyone and Solomons was like a nice grandfather who was just proud to see you having a good runabout in the fresh air.

[BigGee]

Richard Cockers, "...an identity! Which we need to find; because , clearly, no one can tell me what that is."

Schiz, Bru, GC, Big Gee et al, "WE ARE  Warriors , we are Warriors"

Discuss.

Identity is what Glasgow have had that Edinburgh patently have not. The whole squad have bought into it and get it. Stuff like the arch and 'whatever it takes' clearly has worked and has made a lot of players at Glasgow into better players than they otherwise might have been. It brought them a desire to play well, to continue to improve and most of all to win.

If Edinburgh can find something of the same, that works for them, then they will finally be able to travel down the same road and Cockers may just be the man to take them along that route. You can see why they have brought him in and he clearly has a brief to shake things up and to start afresh not necessarily worrying about a few casualties along the way.

There were a few very telling phrases in the interview that he was not afraid to say 'most players have bought into the culture' was very revealing, implying that a few have not. 'Everything has been taken off the walls' implies a complete break with anything that went on before consigned to history and 'no-one can tell me what the culture of the team is' is also fairly damming of the old regime.

It does sound like there was a lot of just turning up to play. Cockers is a details man, timekeeping, appearance, attitude are all extremely important to him as are building foundations. No quick fixes here, this is a challenge that will run for some time and if he can't achieve something with this group of players (who are fundamentally decent rugby players) then you really do wonder who can!

It is going to be an interesting ride this year for sure.

[RDW]

It will be interesting to hear what identity they come up with.

Answers on a postcard please Glasgow fans...

[BigGee]

Interview with Jason O'Halloran from the Glasgow website. Note how many times he refers to the existing culture and atmosphere at Glasgow and how that leads to concepts like peer coaching.

You would hope after a few years under Cockers we might be hearing similar noises coming out of the Edinburgh setup!



Jason O’Halloran and Dave Rennie go back a long way. The pair first met in 2000 when Jason won the ITM Cup playing for Wellington and Dave was his head coach.

They have also coached together at Manawatu Turbos for four years where Rennie was head coach and O’Halloran was his assistant, before O’Halloran took over in 2012 when Rennie moved to the Chiefs.

They’re about to work together again, when Rennie moves to Glasgow next month to take up the position of head coach at the Warriors, with O’Halloran having already joined from the Scotland set-up.Jason O'Halloran helping out at pre-season training

The Glasgow squad are into their fifth week of pre-season training and New Zealander O’Halloran says they’ve gone back to basics in order to help improve their accuracy.

Speaking to Warriors TV he said: “We’ve had a real focus on executing our skills. We feel the ambition that Glasgow play with is fantastic, but we want to marry that with a little bit more accuracy, so we can convert our chances in games. There has been a big focus on catch-and-pass, ball carrying and defence.

“We’ll obviously wrap the physicality of those aspects up in this second block, but we feel we need to get back to basics to start with and the players have been open to the new ideas, so it has been really productive to date.

“They’ve worked hard and they are a really honest bunch, so I’m very happy with the way they’re progressing.

"We need to reintroduce the boys to rugby again after a couple of weeks off, so it’s just about getting reacquainted and then we’ll certainly give it a good nudge in week two and three and take them to places they haven’t been before, in terms of their physical capacity.”

O’Halloran says they are looking to build on the foundations the previous coaches have put in place at Scotstoun and he doesn’t expect radical changes to the way they play.

He added: “We will endeavour to play rugby. Gregor (Townsend) created a fantastic atmosphere here and a really good culture of expressing themselves, so there won’t be much change in that regard but we want to be slightly more accurate than we have been over the last season or maybe season and a half.

“I believe your tactical scope is based around your skillset, so the more skills you have, the more tactics you can deploy. That is why we’re focussing on skills initially, so we can then have more tactics and we can play a wide variety of games depending on conditions, opposition and our own XV that is going out there.”

O’Halloran, who will be focusing on attack, has been working with Jonathan Humphreys and Kenny Murray, along with the Strength and Conditioning team to prepare the players for the long season ahead.

The New Zealander admits that the opportunity to work with an exciting group of players at Scotstoun was one of the reasons he decided to join Rennie’s coaching team.

He explained: “I enjoy Scotland, I enjoy the Scottish way of life. A few generations back my family is from Cambuslang, so coming to Glasgow was always an ambition, so to be able to work with our Scotland internationals is huge.

O'Halloran says the Warriors are going back to basics

“One of the big reasons I came here is a great number of the Scotland team play for Glasgow, particularly in the backs. Having Finn Russell, Hoggy, Alex Dunbar and those sorts of guys coming back, along with Peter Horne and Henry Pyrgos, who are great leaders amongst this group, is going to be really good.

“Along with that I get the opportunity to work with some really good young talent as well, who are very hungry to make their mark and understand they need to make their mark in pre-season because once the internationals get back there is going to be heated competition."

O’Halloran says he has enjoyed working with the players and believes the current group will have a big role to play when the internationals return over the next few weeks.

“It’s going to be interesting to see how the guys who have been here transfer the information we’ve given them around some of the new skills we’re trying to develop,” he said.

“It’ll be interesting to see how the peer coaching comes along and that is a big driver for Dave (Rennie) using players to coach players at times, so I’ll be really interested to see how that dynamic works when the Scotland internationals come back.

“I’ve been really impressed with the overall attitude of the players, which is credit to the Gregor and his staff for what they created here in terms of the culture of the group.

“Having Pat MacArthur, Chris Fusaro and some of those senior players really driving that culture has made it very productive and so much easier for us as new coaches.

“That is the biggest thing which I’ve taken out of it, is what a great culture there is existing here and the pressure that puts on the young guys to really step up and be accountable for their performance straight away.”

[George Carlin]

It will be interesting to hear what identity they come up with.

Answers on a postcard please Glasgow fans...

[des]

So I've just taken the plunge and bought my Edinburgh season ticket.

My third daughter is due on the 21st of September so I'm likely to miss the start of a few games getting the other 2 to bed.  It's probably for the best given we only seem to wake up in the last 20 minutes.

I'm also guessing there'll be some sort of player revolt against Cockerill and we'll crash after a reasonably solid 1st quarter of the season.  The high and lows of following Edinburgh.

[RDW]

So I've just taken the plunge and bought my Edinburgh season ticket.

My third daughter is due on the 21st of September so I'm likely to miss the start of a few games getting the other 2 to bed.  It's probably for the best given we only seem to wake up in the last 20 minutes.

I'm also guessing there'll be some sort of player revolt against Cockerill and we'll crash after a reasonably solid 1st quarter of the season.  The high and lows of following Edinburgh.

That's commitment - you have a completely valid reason not to buy a ST where your conscience would be clear, but you still got one!

Also, 3 daughters will be fun to deal with...!

[George Carlin]

So I've just taken the plunge and bought my Edinburgh season ticket.

My third daughter is due on the 21st of September so I'm likely to miss the start of a few games getting the other 2 to bed.  It's probably for the best given we only seem to wake up in the last 20 minutes.

I'm also guessing there'll be some sort of player revolt against Cockerill and we'll crash after a reasonably solid 1st quarter of the season.  The high and lows of following Edinburgh.

Three girls Desmond? Good luck with the new arrival.

Reminds me of the Ronnie Barker poem:

Money talks,
And that's no lie,
I heard it once,
It said "goodbye".

[jimbopip]

There are a few allegations that could be thrown Cocker's way (he was a prop so there must be a long charge sheet somewhere) but purchasing/using men's grooming products would not be one of them.
The same can not be said for a large percentage of the present Luvvies' squad. I predict a few rapid departures, a fall in takings for Jenners' Male Cosmetics counter, and an increase in the number of yellow cards dished out at Myreside. It'll be interesting to see where Blair Kinghorn fits in here; he's an outstanding prospect but can appear slightly, well slightly MFL-ish to be honest. Will he discover his inner Neanderthal and stay?

[jimbopip]

So I've just taken the plunge and bought my Edinburgh season ticket.

My third daughter is due on the 21st of September so I'm likely to miss the start of a few games getting the other 2 to bed.  It's probably for the best given we only seem to wake up in the last 20 minutes.

I'm also guessing there'll be some sort of player revolt against Cockerill and we'll crash after a reasonably solid 1st quarter of the season.  The high and lows of following Edinburgh.

Three girls Desmond? Good luck with the new arrival.

Reminds me of the Ronnie Barker poem:

Money talks,
And that's no lie,
I heard it once,
It said "goodbye".

Oh the weddings, the weddings.

[RDW]

Was Cockers not a hooker?

[jimbopip]

Was Cockers not a hooker?

All front rows conform to Thomas Hobbes' description of life in a state of nature, "nasty, brutish and short".
Hooker, tight head, loose head you wouldn't want one in your sleeping bag.
And I speak as one who occasionally filled in at hooker.

[des]

So I've just taken the plunge and bought my Edinburgh season ticket.

My third daughter is due on the 21st of September so I'm likely to miss the start of a few games getting the other 2 to bed.  It's probably for the best given we only seem to wake up in the last 20 minutes.

I'm also guessing there'll be some sort of player revolt against Cockerill and we'll crash after a reasonably solid 1st quarter of the season.  The high and lows of following Edinburgh.

Three girls Desmond? Good luck with the new arrival.

Reminds me of the Ronnie Barker poem:

Money talks,
And that's no lie,
I heard it once,
It said "goodbye".

Oh the weddings, the weddings.

Pretty sure father's of the bride(s) don't have to pay the full amount anymore?  My father in law certainly didn't. Straight 3 way split between me and my wife and both sets of parents.

That's still 1 full wedding though.  

Luckily neither of the current ones are of the princes variety.  One is a art/gaming/lego nerd that comes to the occasional rugby game with me and the other one is a grade "A" ninja with the ability to inflict pain 1/2 a second before you expect it.  I think she's hacked the simulation, there's no other explanation.

They'll definitely change but if they're anything like their mother, they'll be fine teenagers.  If they're anything like me, I'll just "think" they're fine teenagers.

Ignorance is definitely bliss.

[BigGee]

Glasgow sell out their season tickets in a few days, 4,500 sold. That's very impressive and confirms suspicions that putting up the prices would not dampen down demand.

Not going to be easy getting a ticket to Scotstoun next season.

We are going to need more capacity at some stage in the not to distant future!

[George Carlin]

Right, so what do we expect from the teams this season? 

I like Cockerill a lot - he is a passionate rugby man who is well aware of what 'excellent' looks like. He is a winning coach and much about the Tigers culture is sorely needed at Edinburgh. I think that placing 6th would be a very good start. 

In terms of the soapdodgers, it still doesn't look like a complete squad to me. Rennie's Chiefs are in the quarters of Super Rugby - they play the Stormers on Sunday in Cape Town. I would back them to win although obviously from a Glasgow perspective I hope that they don't and we get the boss over here quickly. Glasgow's squad was shown up for depth last year and the reserves didn't get the job done - albeit in difficult circumstances. I think that we need a tighthead, a loose forward and a good fullback who can play wing.

[RDW]

Baby steps GC - I think if we can get more consistent performances the league position will sort itself out. For every win over Glasgow or Scarlets there were losses to Zebre and Blues - we really need to sort that out.

Mid table mediocrity 7th will do me for the first season - would certainly show progress at least!

[Hazel Sapling]

Not sure about what positions to choose GC. Need to see if it goes to conferences and who plays with whom.

If it were to stay with the present 12, Edinburgh will likely be 7th ahead of the Italians, Newport, Cardiff and probably Connacht. They have the quality to do more however, it will take longer to instill a culture than a full pre-season. Their pack should slowly dominate with a return to form for CDP and building a unit that plays well together (rather than only 2/3 playing well at any one time). For Edinburgh to finish higher, they need a solid kicker. Whether Weir or Tovey are capable of developing that remains to be seen. Anything more than building a pack and solid tackling around the park is will be ahead of the curve.

Glasgow are short a 3rd/4th choice TH and a 6 (L Jones and Seymour can provide cover at FB). The loose forward situation may not be as bad if Wynne and Fagerson develop. One is 20 and the other is 19 (as of today) respectively. Both are developing physically with a full pre-season ahead. TH for me is the big one. Either way, barring an injury crisis, Glasgow need to be targeting a home playoff spot, a QF berth in the Heino and funding to expand Scotstoun permanently above 10k.

[BigGee]

I probably agree with GC that the Glasgow squad is not quite there yet.

A TH surely must be essential as we currently only have two, plus Adam Nicol, who is a prospect but can hardly be expected to jump right in.

Another back row would be desirable but we need to go for quality there, we seem to have plenty of squad players already in that position. A bit of a make or break season for Adam Ashe now as well, who really needs to step up now and make himself a starter. He has not really fulfilled his early promise, though injuries have played a big part in that.

FB/Wing, I actually think we are ok now that Thompson has signed. I suspect that we will be seeing more of him at FB than at FH.

I live in hope that a couple more players are already lined up and will come over with DR at the end of the Super Rugby season and that they did not want to announce them while it is still going on. There were rumours about Liam Messan a while back. I think I could live with that one!

[George Carlin]

Just to include some more posters in this:
https://www.606v2.com/t66069-2017-18-season-how-well-has-your-team-recruited

[whocares]

Apparently Jonny G has been visiting Toulouse training camps on Tuesday. Maybe just paying a visit to his brother or well... you know if contract run till next year

[RDW]

Really good interview with Robbie Freaun - he's certainly been through a lot with his heart condition and understandably Edinburgh gave him a very thorough medical to put it mildly.

https://twitter.com/MarkPalmerST/status/886515981593522178

The other key point is that Edinburgh won't stand in his way for representing Samoa, which will mean playing four 7s tournaments next season.

Certainly a big risk for Edinburgh but hopefully one that pays off!

[jimbopip]

Is my interweb broken?
Is this a record for the longest silence on the exfoliator/soapdodger love in?

So, Danearis is squatting in an empty in Dragonstone. Which co-incidentally happens to be built on a mountain of Dragonglass.

Samwell and Gilly are still lurking in a library. Gilly has learned to read, probably through osmosis. They don't know that the Red Priestess has prophesised that it will take the blood of a King's child to guarantee victory in the war. (Stannis knew that and burnt his daughter at the stake, but he wasn't really a king so he lost anyway) Which is what they, co-incidentally, are child-minding.

Cersei has given up on her children and needs a man now that Jamie has renounced incest in favour of unrequited love with the only woman in the world who's a "better swordsman" than he.
Cersei, practical as ever, arranges a job interview with Euron Greyjoy, who arrives with his fleet. I think he will get the position; I'm sure I heard her say, "Hello sailor, you're on."
Arya, poisoned half the Frey clan and felt pretty smug; then met Ed Sheeran and realised she had used all the poison.

SOMEONE POST SOMETHING ABOUT RUGBY OR I'LL CONTINUE WITH THIS.

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

SOMEONE POST SOMETHING ABOUT RUGBY OR I'LL CONTINUE WITH THIS.

Point taken.

New Pro14 tournament!

Two conferences of 7 teams. 1 Scots, 1 Italian, 1 Saffer and 2 Irish and Welsh teams in each conference.

Quite a season for our teams to have new management.

The fixture list this season should be interesting....

[jimbopip]

Aye Mesmeric, but that only gives each team 12 matches as opposed to the current 22. So there will have to be games against teams from the other conference to fill out the fixtures.
You know the episode in The Sopranos where one of Tony's capos is constipated and has a brain seizure and dies on "the can", as they say in Noo Joisey, well I think we'll be like that trying to work out who we'll be playing. Or who we want to play.

[jimbopip]

Or who has the easier fixtures. Or which Conference is the easier. Or whether the Bokkies are worse than the Italians. Or whether anyone is worse than the Luvvies.

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

The conference phase is "Stage 1". After the 12 games there's a bit of jiggery pokery and a "Stage 2" starts which is the top teams from each conference fighting it out for Champions Cup and play-off places. Or something to that effect. Bit like the Super Rugby format.

It'll be interesting to see the groups. I can imagine one of them is going to be a brutal group to win.

For example:
Glasgow, Leinster, Munster, Ospreys, Scarlets, Kings and some pizza.
^^ Tough as old boots.

Edinburgh, Ulster, Connacht, Cardiff, Dragons, Lions and some pasta.
^^ Ulster/Cardiff/Lions and possibly even Edinburgh to compete. Dragons may improve from recent seasons, but i'll believe it when i see it.

I do not believe the Italian sides will improve. Conor O'Shea is going a solid job but he doesn't exactly have the tools to work with. Saying that, the Italian u20s looked sharp this year.

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

And I am quietly confident about Edinburgh. Richard Cockerill is a hard nosed coach and the squad is not half bad. I reckon Edinburgh have had the right players for a couple of seasons but its the tactics and execution that have been hot and cold. Stunning one day, then amateur the next.

Certain players need to find their form again - Cornell de Preez and SHC in particular.

[Hazel Sapling]

The conference phase is "Stage 1". After the 12 games there's a bit of jiggery pokery and a "Stage 2" starts which is the top teams from each conference fighting it out for Champions Cup and play-off places. Or something to that effect. Bit like the Super Rugby format.

It'll be interesting to see the groups. I can imagine one of them is going to be a brutal group to win.

For example:
Glasgow, Leinster, Munster, Ospreys, Scarlets, Kings and some pizza.
^^ Tough as old boots.

Edinburgh, Ulster, Connacht, Cardiff, Dragons, Lions and some pasta.
^^ Ulster/Cardiff/Lions and possibly even Edinburgh to compete. Dragons may improve from recent seasons, but i'll believe it when i see it.

I do not believe the Italian sides will improve. Conor O'Shea is going a solid job but he doesn't exactly have the tools to work with. Saying that, the Italian u20s looked sharp this year.

In the long run, I think Ulster are as big a team as Munster and Leinster. If you swapped the Welsh teams around or put both SA in conference 2, it may work out a bit more even. Could we see 19 games plus playoffs or will they manage to get it to 20?

What are people's opinions on the South Africans? Are they better than the Italians?

[RDW]

The SA teams are (generally) competitive in super rugby so will surely be much better than the Italian teams.

They're also battle hardened so will likely start the season strongly.

[George Carlin]

This all starts the season after the current one, no?

Or does it all start this forthcoming September? Surely it cannot be - the Super franchises have just played a full season.

[RDW]

It is to start this season - the SA clubs would fold waiting so long to join the league!

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

The conference phase is "Stage 1". After the 12 games there's a bit of jiggery pokery and a "Stage 2" starts which is the top teams from each conference fighting it out for Champions Cup and play-off places. Or something to that effect. Bit like the Super Rugby format.

It'll be interesting to see the groups. I can imagine one of them is going to be a brutal group to win.

For example:
Glasgow, Leinster, Munster, Ospreys, Scarlets, Kings and some pizza.
^^ Tough as old boots.

Edinburgh, Ulster, Connacht, Cardiff, Dragons, Lions and some pasta.
^^ Ulster/Cardiff/Lions and possibly even Edinburgh to compete. Dragons may improve from recent seasons, but i'll believe it when i see it.

I do not believe the Italian sides will improve. Conor O'Shea is going a solid job but he doesn't exactly have the tools to work with. Saying that, the Italian u20s looked sharp this year.

In the long run, I think Ulster are as big a team as Munster and Leinster. If you swapped the Welsh teams around or put both SA in conference 2, it may work out a bit more even. Could we see 19 games plus playoffs or will they manage to get it to 20?

What are people's opinions on the South Africans? Are they better than the Italians?

It was merely a hypothetical example. Of course Ulster are a top team, but you can't have more than 2 teams from Ireland in a single conference. Whichever of the 3 big Irish teams isn't with the other two will surely be favourite for their conference. That's unless something crazy happens, right?

The Saffers will be a lot stronger than the Italians. Their only big problem that I can see will be fatigue - they've only just finished their Super Rugby season.

This all starts the season after the current one, no?

Or does it all start this forthcoming September? Surely it cannot be - the Super franchises have just played a full season.

Yup. It all kicks off in September.

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

Can't say I'm overly enthused by the conference system.

What about inviting other pro teams from Europe and create a second Pro12 division, possibly with relegation and promotion.

D1
4 Irish
4 Welsh
4 Scottish (yes, 2 more Scottish teams - ho ho ho)

D2
3 Italy
3 SA
3 Georgia
2 Romania
1 Spain (Bilbao is a rugby hotbed) or Germany

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Can't say I'm overly enthused by the conference system.

What about inviting other pro teams from Europe and create a second Pro12 division, possibly with relegation and promotion.

D1
4 Irish
4 Welsh
4 Scottish (yes, 2 more Scottish teams - ho ho ho)

D2
3 Italy
3 SA
3 Georgia
2 Romania
1 Spain (Bilbao is a rugby hotbed) or Germany

Have you slipped into whatever fantasy world Jimbo was gibbering on about earlier mesmeric?!

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