Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 17 - Almost Legal

[Hazel Sapling]

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Glasgow Warriors & Edinburgh

The Histories:

Guiness Pro 12
Edinburgh Rugby
Glasgow Warriors

Edinburgh Rugby Highlights 2016/2017
Glasgow Warriors Pro 12 Highlights 2016/2017  

[Welly]

Any good?

IMO yes, had a injury last season but the games he played in he looked very good in.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Holy Moley, I'm away for a couple of weeks and Schiz is back

Yes so best of order you rabble !

According to EWT Spoons Ryan Wilson is our worst player. Dream on Luvvie Boy - if you had even one player that had RW's determination and will to win you just may not be perpetual bottom feeders.

Any way starting 15 for Dragons tomorrow is :-

Starting 15 -
Jackson
Jones
Grigg
Sam J
Rozza
Hastings
Wee Horne
Ashe - Fuzzy - Wynne
Big Brian - Cummings
Bhatti - Malcolm - Rae

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Ahh see BigG beat me to it . Apologies !

[EWT Spoons]

Holy Moley, I'm away for a couple of weeks and Schiz is back

Yes so best of order you rabble !

According to EWT Spoons Ryan Wilson is our worst player.   Dream on Luvvie Boy - if you had even one player that had RW's determination and will to win you just may not be perpetual bottom feeders.

Any way starting 15 for Dragons tomorrow is :-

Starting 15 -
Jackson
Jones
Grigg
Sam J
Rozza
Hastings
Wee Horne
Ashe - Fuzzy - Wynne
Big Brian - Cummings
Bhatti - Malcolm - Rae

Not questioning his determination or will to win, just his ability.

[BigGee]

Ryan Wilson does get a bad press from the Edinburgh fans on here, but he does seem to be rated by those that count, mainly BVC, Toonie and now Dave Rennie not to mention many thousands of Warriors fans!

[EWT Spoons]

Ryan Wilson does get a bad press from the Edinburgh fans on here, but he does seem to be rated by those that count, mainly BVC, Toonie and now Dave Rennie not to mention many thousands of Warriors fans!

I'm just on the wind up really. Hence my wee winking face thing when I first suggested he was Glasgow's worst player, I wasn't totally being serious.

I think he's ok, probably a decent player for Glasgow, but I don't think he's good enough for Scotland. Much like Roddy G was. Total commitment for Edinburgh, leader etc, but not really worthy of a Scotland place.

Hopefully Wilson has been made Glasgow captain and they don't expect him to be away with Scotland much.

[BigGee]

Ryan Wilson does get a bad press from the Edinburgh fans on here, but he does seem to be rated by those that count, mainly BVC, Toonie and now Dave Rennie not to mention many thousands of Warriors fans!

I'm just on the wind up really.  Hence my wee winking face thing when I first suggested he was Glasgow's worst player, I wasn't totally being serious.

I think he's ok, probably a decent player for Glasgow, but I don't think he's good enough for Scotland.  Much like Roddy G was.  Total commitment for Edinburgh, leader etc, but not really worthy of a Scotland place.

Hopefully Wilson has been made Glasgow captain and they don't expect him to be away with Scotland much.

I would not totally disagree with that, in that he does fall just a little bit short of true international class. We have better OS's and BS's but lack a really consistent No.8 to carry the ball. That is probably not RW best position in the backrow but the one he most often fills as no-one else really steps up for Scotland consistently and this is really holding us back as an international team. We really need one of the incumbents such as CDP, Strauss, Ashe or Dents to rediscover their mojo or one of the kids Bradbury, Millar or Fagerson to step up. I suspect over the next year or so, it may well be the later.

Until then, RW is going to keep on accumulating caps, as he gives it everything and rarely has what you would call a bad game and the coaching staff certainly appreciate what he brings to the party.

[jimbopip]

Interesting that Eck Dunbar isn't featuring.

This probably means that he won't play against the Craggies. Schiz said he wasn't at the Stains' game. Hmmm. I wonder if he's injured or if he and Renzo have got off on the wrong foot. Furra Linee is on the bench along with Paddy Kelly. You know, injuries permitting I think Johnson will start at 12 with Grigg at 13 and Furra Linee covering 10/12 in Galway. I wonder if Renzo is using Dunbar to make a point: no-one gets picked on reputation.
Also of note; Stafford McDowell is on the bench. He can play centre/full back and hold the distinction of being Ayr's youngest ever Player of the Year. So another and obviously incredibly World Class.
Fagerson2 and Ashe both featuring again so I'd pencil them in against the Craggies as well.
It's looking good.

[RuggerRadge2611]

to be fair as a captain he can't make that much of an impact from the sin bin. Very much in the Hartley mould. Rennie is laying down a marker about the sort of team he wants the soap dodgers to be.

[EWT Spoons]

Ryan Wilson does get a bad press from the Edinburgh fans on here, but he does seem to be rated by those that count, mainly BVC, Toonie and now Dave Rennie not to mention many thousands of Warriors fans!

I'm just on the wind up really.  Hence my wee winking face thing when I first suggested he was Glasgow's worst player, I wasn't totally being serious.

I think he's ok, probably a decent player for Glasgow, but I don't think he's good enough for Scotland.  Much like Roddy G was.  Total commitment for Edinburgh, leader etc, but not really worthy of a Scotland place.

Hopefully Wilson has been made Glasgow captain and they don't expect him to be away with Scotland much.

I would not totally disagree with that, in that he does fall just a little bit short of true international class. We have better OS's and BS's but lack a really consistent No.8 to carry the ball. That is probably not RW best position in the backrow but the one he most often fills as no-one else really steps up for Scotland consistently and this is really holding us back as an international team. We really need one of the incumbents such as CDP, Strauss, Ashe or Dents to rediscover their mojo or one of the kids Bradbury, Millar or Fagerson to step up. I suspect over the next year or so, it may well be the later.

Until then, RW is going to keep on accumulating caps, as he gives it everything and rarely has what you would call a bad game and the coaching staff certainly appreciate what he brings to the party.

I think you’re probably right, he’s probably going to continue picking up caps at least in the short term.  I think he’s benefiting from being versatile and there not being a load of established players in those positions.

However, Ritchie, Ashe, Bradbury & Fagertwo are all hopefully going  to be pushing for a place in the next year or so.

EDIT - I've just realised I've pretty much just repeated what you said. Nearly word for word.

[BigGee]

Ryan Wilson does get a bad press from the Edinburgh fans on here, but he does seem to be rated by those that count, mainly BVC, Toonie and now Dave Rennie not to mention many thousands of Warriors fans!

I'm just on the wind up really.  Hence my wee winking face thing when I first suggested he was Glasgow's worst player, I wasn't totally being serious.

I think he's ok, probably a decent player for Glasgow, but I don't think he's good enough for Scotland.  Much like Roddy G was.  Total commitment for Edinburgh, leader etc, but not really worthy of a Scotland place.

Hopefully Wilson has been made Glasgow captain and they don't expect him to be away with Scotland much.

I would not totally disagree with that, in that he does fall just a little bit short of true international class. We have better OS's and BS's but lack a really consistent No.8 to carry the ball. That is probably not RW best position in the backrow but the one he most often fills as no-one else really steps up for Scotland consistently and this is really holding us back as an international team. We really need one of the incumbents such as CDP, Strauss, Ashe or Dents to rediscover their mojo or one of the kids Bradbury, Millar or Fagerson to step up. I suspect over the next year or so, it may well be the later.

Until then, RW is going to keep on accumulating caps, as he gives it everything and rarely has what you would call a bad game and the coaching staff certainly appreciate what he brings to the party.

I think you’re probably right, he’s probably going to continue picking up caps at least in the short term.  I think he’s benefiting from being versatile and there not being a load of established players in those positions.

However, Ritchie, Ashe, Bradbury & Fagertwo are all hopefully going  to be pushing for a place in the next year or so.

EDIT - I've just realised I've pretty much just repeated what you said.  Nearly word for word.

Its good to be vindicated by an Edinburgh fan!

[EWT Spoons]

Happy to help

[jimbopip]

Happy to help

Apparently that is being considered as the new club motto. As in,

"Welcome to Myreside, welcome to 5 points, Happy to help"

Of course it'll be embroidered in silk on the, limited edition, tartan rugs draped across the supporters' laps. In Aramaic. probably.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Having said all that, in the season finale v Edinburgh at Scotstoun they did not have to up their game as we were utterly woeful from start to finish. With the exception of Stuart Hogg the players looked like they needed a long rest. Most of them didn't get one.

[RDW]

Having said all that, in the season finale v Edinburgh at Scotstoun they did not have to up their game as we were utterly woeful from start to finish.   With the exception of Stuart Hogg the players looked like they needed a long rest.  Most of them didn't get one.  

Glasgow were really bad - they made Weir look good and let Bryce even score a try!

[jimbopip]

Ah! That was it: rugby's answer to the sympathy fecc.

Sorry you have to leave lads but we'll give you one game to look good then it's back to normal.

[tigertattie]

how do I go about getting one of these sympathy feccs?

[RDW]

how do I go about getting one of these sympathy feccs?

How rich are you?

[jimbopip]

Careful Tattie, they can backfire on you, these sympathy gestures.
I once worked with a lad who bowled for Essex. Just after Malcolm Marhall died he was telling me what a "diamond geezer" Malcolm was. Said he always enjoyed batting against him.
I pointed out that by his own admission he was a dreadful batsman, in fact he used to wear TWO boxes to protect his crown jewels.
"Ah Jim, my Scottish mate. The bowlers' union! We look after each other. Like Freemason. Every match, he'd bowl a dolly first ball and I'd take an easy single. Then he'd bowl me out. No bouncers, no intimidation. Everyone was happy. Then afterwards we'd have a brandy in the clubhouse. He loved a brandy did Malcolm. Except, just the once; dunno why but he was in a bad mood. First ball, like a rocket, off the turf and into my box. OOh. Now in those days it wasn't the fine, breatable mesh things you get nowadays. Nah, hard plastic with holes drilled in for ventilation. And I was wearing two of them, as usual. Well, he came steaming in again and my eyes were watering something awful, didn't see it, and whack, in the box again. Of course, what I hadn't realised was that the first blow had driven the box into my wossits and all the soft tissue was pushed into the holes. The second blow made he top box turn through ninety degrees. I was lying at the crease and the umpire lifted the waistband of my trousers, looked in, kinda grimaced and said "ambulance, I think." But other than that one time Malcolm was a real gentleman, loved playing against him I did. "

[RDW]

Careful Tattie, they can backfire on you, these sympathy gestures.
I once worked with a lad who bowled for Essex. Just after Malcolm Marhall died he was telling me what a "diamond geezer" Malcolm was. Said he always enjoyed batting against him.
I pointed out that by his own admission he was a dreadful batsman, in fact he used to wear TWO boxes to protect his crown jewels.
"Ah Jim, my Scottish mate. The bowlers' union! We look after each other. Like Freemason. Every match, he'd bowl a dolly first ball and I'd take an easy single. Then he'd bowl me out. No bouncers, no intimidation. Everyone was happy. Then afterwards we'd have a brandy in the clubhouse. He loved a brandy did Malcolm. Except, just the once; dunno why but he was in a bad mood. First ball, like a rocket, off the turf and into my box. OOh. Now in those days it wasn't the fine, breatable mesh things you get nowadays. Nah, hard plastic with holes drilled in for ventilation. And I was wearing two of them, as usual. Well, he came steaming in again and my eyes were watering something awful, didn't see it, and whack, in the box again. Of course, what I hadn't realised was that the first blow had driven the box into my wossits and all the soft tissue was pushed into the holes. The second blow made he top box turn through ninety degrees. I was lying at the crease and the umpire lifted the waistband of my trousers, looked in, kinda grimaced and said "ambulance, I think." But other than that one time Malcolm was a real gentleman, loved playing against him I did. "

How do you go from sympathy shags to Cricket??

[des]

Careful Tattie, they can backfire on you, these sympathy gestures.
I once worked with a lad who bowled for Essex. Just after Malcolm Marhall died he was telling me what a "diamond geezer" Malcolm was. Said he always enjoyed batting against him.
I pointed out that by his own admission he was a dreadful batsman, in fact he used to wear TWO boxes to protect his crown jewels.
"Ah Jim, my Scottish mate. The bowlers' union! We look after each other. Like Freemason. Every match, he'd bowl a dolly first ball and I'd take an easy single. Then he'd bowl me out. No bouncers, no intimidation. Everyone was happy. Then afterwards we'd have a brandy in the clubhouse. He loved a brandy did Malcolm. Except, just the once; dunno why but he was in a bad mood. First ball, like a rocket, off the turf and into my box. OOh. Now in those days it wasn't the fine, breatable mesh things you get nowadays. Nah, hard plastic with holes drilled in for ventilation. And I was wearing two of them, as usual. Well, he came steaming in again and my eyes were watering something awful, didn't see it, and whack, in the box again. Of course, what I hadn't realised was that the first blow had driven the box into my wossits and all the soft tissue was pushed into the holes. The second blow made he top box turn through ninety degrees. I was lying at the crease and the umpire lifted the waistband of my trousers, looked in, kinda grimaced and said "ambulance, I think." But other than that one time Malcolm was a real gentleman, loved playing against him I did. "

Genuinely excellent story. Love it.

Slightly related question, why is Scotland so bad at cricket when so many people play it. Do we just like playing it in a noncompetitive sense?

[jimbopip]

See that's why Schiz and Bru won't drink with you.

Your thought process is linear, it's like the Luvvies attacking masterplan; pick up ball run in straight line-run straight into nearest defender.

Now your west coast conversationalist is more like Dancer. Pick up the thread of the conversation, look as if you are going to continue that chain of thought, drop a shoulder and sidestep onto the nearest tangent.
Much more entertaining.
Do try to keep up.

[RDW]

Careful Tattie, they can backfire on you, these sympathy gestures.
I once worked with a lad who bowled for Essex. Just after Malcolm Marhall died he was telling me what a "diamond geezer" Malcolm was. Said he always enjoyed batting against him.
I pointed out that by his own admission he was a dreadful batsman, in fact he used to wear TWO boxes to protect his crown jewels.
"Ah Jim, my Scottish mate. The bowlers' union! We look after each other. Like Freemason. Every match, he'd bowl a dolly first ball and I'd take an easy single. Then he'd bowl me out. No bouncers, no intimidation. Everyone was happy. Then afterwards we'd have a brandy in the clubhouse. He loved a brandy did Malcolm. Except, just the once; dunno why but he was in a bad mood. First ball, like a rocket, off the turf and into my box. OOh. Now in those days it wasn't the fine, breatable mesh things you get nowadays. Nah, hard plastic with holes drilled in for ventilation. And I was wearing two of them, as usual. Well, he came steaming in again and my eyes were watering something awful, didn't see it, and whack, in the box again. Of course, what I hadn't realised was that the first blow had driven the box into my wossits and all the soft tissue was pushed into the holes. The second blow made he top box turn through ninety degrees. I was lying at the crease and the umpire lifted the waistband of my trousers, looked in, kinda grimaced and said "ambulance, I think." But other than that one time Malcolm was a real gentleman, loved playing against him I did. "

Genuinely excellent story. Love it.

Slightly related question, why is Scotland so bad at cricket when so many people play it.  Do we just like playing it in a noncompetitive sense?

I don't think you could really say 'so many'. I don't know what the actual numbers are but if people think rugby is a posh boys sport played only in private schools, which isn't overly fair, then it generally is for cricket. I'd be surprised if you found a state school with a cricket team, and there's certainly far more rugby pitches than cricket ones!

[jimbopip]

26 minutes gone and Glasgow 14-10 up. tries for Rozza and Rhuaridh. Sounds a good game, young Cummings putting Jacko away with "a peach of a pass in midfield".

[RDW]

Why are the playing on a Friday afternoon?

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Very much a last gasp of close season arrangement at Ebbw Vale coz Dragons getting a new pitch - at last.

[tigertattie]

Firstly, Jimbo! WTH????

I asked how I could get my hole and you start talking about cricket balls to the nuts!!! That's like walking into a Chinese restaurant and ordering a pizza!

Secondly, I heard a rumour that there are more cricket players in Scotland than there are rugby players! There could even be more cricket grounds than rugby ones!!!

[BigGee]

Very much a last gasp of close season arrangement at Ebbw Vale coz Dragons getting a new pitch - at last.  

Hopefully this one will last better than the previous ones!

[des]

Careful Tattie, they can backfire on you, these sympathy gestures.
I once worked with a lad who bowled for Essex. Just after Malcolm Marhall died he was telling me what a "diamond geezer" Malcolm was. Said he always enjoyed batting against him.
I pointed out that by his own admission he was a dreadful batsman, in fact he used to wear TWO boxes to protect his crown jewels.
"Ah Jim, my Scottish mate. The bowlers' union! We look after each other. Like Freemason. Every match, he'd bowl a dolly first ball and I'd take an easy single. Then he'd bowl me out. No bouncers, no intimidation. Everyone was happy. Then afterwards we'd have a brandy in the clubhouse. He loved a brandy did Malcolm. Except, just the once; dunno why but he was in a bad mood. First ball, like a rocket, off the turf and into my box. OOh. Now in those days it wasn't the fine, breatable mesh things you get nowadays. Nah, hard plastic with holes drilled in for ventilation. And I was wearing two of them, as usual. Well, he came steaming in again and my eyes were watering something awful, didn't see it, and whack, in the box again. Of course, what I hadn't realised was that the first blow had driven the box into my wossits and all the soft tissue was pushed into the holes. The second blow made he top box turn through ninety degrees. I was lying at the crease and the umpire lifted the waistband of my trousers, looked in, kinda grimaced and said "ambulance, I think." But other than that one time Malcolm was a real gentleman, loved playing against him I did. "

Genuinely excellent story. Love it.

Slightly related question, why is Scotland so bad at cricket when so many people play it.  Do we just like playing it in a noncompetitive sense?

I don't think you could really say 'so many'. I don't know what the actual numbers are but if people think rugby is a posh boys sport played only in private schools, which isn't overly fair, then it generally is for cricket.  I'd be surprised if you found a state school with a cricket team, and there's certainly far more rugby pitches than cricket ones!

Nope, there are loads. Between the private schools (mainly, but not only Edinburgh), Paisley and Aberdeen there are loads. We punch well below our weight. My state high school had a cricket team but no football one.

[RDW]

Well I'll be dammed - according to Google it is fairly even at around 17,000 adults playing regularly.

Who knew!

I definitely stand by my claim that hardly any state schools play it - certainly not in Edinburgh at least.

[jimbopip]

Which state school was that? Hogwarts or Mallory Towers?

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

14-13 to us at ht. 2 converted tries Hughes and Jacko

[jimbopip]

Henners and Horne replace Horne and hastings at the start of the second half. Will Furra Linee play 10 or will Jacko slot in there?

[jimbopip]

16-21 to Glasgow. Furra Linee slips through and puts Grigg in, then adds conversion. Sibling rivalry, doncha love it.

[jimbopip]

They’ve scored again from the restart, with substitute wing Lelia Masaga, fresh from playing for the Chiefs in Super Rugby bouncing off two would-be tacklers.
Glasgow powered forward with impressive lock Scott Cummings showing an impressive turn of speed to race in at the corner for an unconverted try.

Tht's what Wales OnLine said. I wonder how Hugh Dan the Heedrumhodrum Man would have put it.

[jimbopip]

33-16
Sam Johnson scores and normal service has been resumed.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Tryyyyyyyyyy ! WE ARE WARRIORS - Paddy Kelly - well played young man

[jimbopip]

TRY Glasgow! 16-40
Rephrase that, it’s embarrassing with Glasgow nowhere near being at full-strength. Academy centre Patrick Kelly gets their sixth try. That means the Dragons have conceded 32 tries in four matches, and there’s still minutes to play.

I think Paddy Kelly will be one to keep an eye on. Next season could be his big breakthrough year.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

23-40 final score. Encouraging signs peeps

[RDW]

To be fair it was against the Dragons who have been absolutely horsed in every pre-season game so far...

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Uhh huh - and until the last 15 mins hardly a 1st choice Warrior on the pitch. So tbf a bloody good result.

[BigGee]

Good win for Glasgow, they will be pretty happy how pre-season has gone, especially with so many players still to come back.

I was following at work on my twitter feed and on the subject of Scottish rugby playing brothers noticed some more to add to the Gray's, Horne's, Fagerson's and Bradbury's. There is yet another Bulumakau brother, Seva, who is gong to join his brothers from the bench for Doncaster Knights in their pre-season game tonight. He is younger than the other two and is getting exposure to a decent level at a young age, so might be one to watch for the future.

It is still pretty unusual for three brothers all to be on the pitch for one side in the professional era though. Though maybe we will see it in the future with the Fagerson's for Glasgow.

[jimbopip]

You know what I was saying about Eck Dunbar having to find his A game pretty soon?
Johnson, Grigg, Kelly and Horne all scored today.
You were at the Stains game and it seems all the centres who played did well. So, Schiz, who do you see being the three centres in the 23 at Galway? ( I still think Furra Linee will be benching as 10/12 cover.)

I think if I was a Warrior and was not involved in these two matches I would be wondering what I needed to do in training this week.
The wheels could come off, spectacularly, in wet windy Galway but the Renzo Period seems to be shaping up nicely.

[RDW]

15' Duncan Weir dances his way through the defence, but the ball goes forward in the tackle. Good continuity in attack! #EDIvNEW (3-0)

[jimbopip]

Cockers...what a coach.

[Hazel Sapling]

Both club teams win. Edinburgh beat a (on paper) handy looking Newcastle team. Glasgow beat up the Dragons in the 2nd half (bit concerned about the failure to break them down in the first).

I am hoping to go to the Cardiff vs Edinburgh game on the 1st. It could be an indicator for how the season is going to go. Cardiff are one of the two sides Edinburgh are fighting for European qualifications with in the 3rd/4th spots (really worried about Ulster's halfbacks, no depth).

On the Glasgow centres, Dunbar has played quite a bit of international rugby this past year and Johnson has not. If Johnson/Grigg are playing well enough, I have no problem with Dunbar finding his form in training. Personally, I would still prefer him at 13 outside Johnson to corral Aki (who I assume is healthy) in the opener. Horne is not on the same level as Johnson or Dunbar at 12. He may just be a good club player who can beat up the lower half of the table.

[jimbopip]

Hazel, I think you are being slightly unfair to Furra Linee. Like most people I assumed that Dunbar-Bennett was by far the better centre pairing at Glasgow. However, if we go all Moneyball in our analysis then two things emerge; in the season Glasgow won the title Horne-Vernon played more matches than any other pairing, secondly they had a better win ratio than any other pairing that season. this wasn't primarily because they were being fielded against weaker teams, both Dunbar and Bennett missed quite a few matches due to injuries, but rather because they were actually a very effective pairing. Individually, Dunbar and Bennett are way more talented than Horne and Bennett but it does seem that the latter pair make a better (as in more likely to win) than the more fancied pairing.
Apparently, Johnson stood at first receiver quite often today; this suggests a 10-12-13 of Horne-Johnson-Dunbar could have a lot to recommend it.
I actually like the idea that there seem to be lots of players demanding a start. I just wonder how long Renzo can keep the squad this competitive.

[EWT Spoons]

Just back from the game. Edinburgh looked pretty decent throughout, very attacking and near constant pressure on Newcastle. We were helped by some some terrible handling from Newcastle though. Players were very vocal, lots of talking to each other which was probably lacking last season.

[RDW]

Sounds like a full blooded contest tonight against a good Newcastle team - important to get the win.

From following on twitter it sounds like we had a lot of possession and territory but struggled to do much with it. Sounds familiar!

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