Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

First topic message reminder :

AdamT wrote:I don't care about him calling out Floyd lol. He can't move up a division, but will move down to fight a smaller man.

You all cream yourselves over him, so yes that suggests you think he is great.

Who "creams themselves" over him? Do you have any examples of this gushing praise? Any articles claiming he's "top ten definitely" etc.?

Ward and Hopkins both called Floyd out, too. It's because they'd make a fortune to fight a guy who couldn't pop a balloon.

The fact you say that shows how blind and brainwashed you are BF88.

BoxingFan88 wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:https://youtu.be/5o0WjGqY7Fo

https://youtu.be/GMXCsy7cCYA

Hahaha, I thought you guys didn't believe in video analysis?

Precise is the best analyst out there

I have learned a lot about boxing from him

Well that explains a lot

BoxingFan88 wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:https://youtu.be/5o0WjGqY7Fo

https://youtu.be/GMXCsy7cCYA

Hahaha, I thought you guys didn't believe in video analysis?

Precise is the best analyst out there

I have learned a lot about boxing from him

Best out there? Really?

The guys a tool!

AdamT wrote:Any version of Pacquiao and Marquez are better than Kov too.

What is this tripe?

Kovalev has been life and death with the best P4P fighter outside of Floyd. He's lost a close decision and a very dubious stoppage. Pacquiao got outclassed by the P4P best quite clearly and Marquez while being a great fighter - lost to Pacquiao and Mayweather. You cannot compare Kovalev with anyone around Welterweight. You can only compare him with MW and above. There's a very different dynamic between the two weights in terms of KO's and the way the fights go.

I mean I thought Ward won the second fight. It was very very close, but this time as much as it stuck in my throat I would have given it to Ward until the stoppage. Kovalev had the first one though. Ward didn't do enough to turn over the deficit he had after 6 rounds and as the challenger he really had to be a class above. He wasn't - hence the contentious decision and the rematch.

Why is Floyd being brought up anyway? What relevance does a very hard hitting LHW have to do with a powder punching welter? If you're comparing Floyd to Ward well that's a natural comparison except they're different fighters. Floyd is rapid and evasive, Ward is a spoiler and inside fighter. May as well compare him to Bhop.

No-one was comparing them as fighters Jabby. The debate was whether Ward had eclipsed manny and Floyd as the fighter of his generation... so it moved to best wins which is where kov and his record came in...

http://www.boxingscene.com/abel-sanchez-open-training-sergey-kovalev-door-open--118717

If Tony Weeks has admitted he didn't see the shots were low(bullsh1t by the way) and that he wouldn't have stopped the fight if he HAD seen they were low then surely the NSAC has to go back on what they initially said and make this a no contest?

We going to go back and retrospectively change numerous results then or just this one?

Certainly not like you I'd hate to see that but this is one of those rare exceptions for me

Why is this an exception? There have been multiple poor decisions by both the judges and referees.

Because photographic evidence indisputably shows that the blows were low and the referee(despite photographic evidence that shows Weeks was in clear view of the action) made an incorrect(and appalling) decision

Why not change the result of a few Pernell Whitaker fights while you're at it or say Abril against Rios or Molina's disqualification against Kirkland?

I didn't see Molina against Kirkland but I will now take a look at some point, thanks.

Obviously the result needs to be changed before they fight again. Once either of them fight you'd imagine it'd be too late.

It's not going to be changed nor should it, the referee has always been the one who has the final decision, might as well do away with judges if we start retrospectively changing results.

The referee has admitted he made a mistake and didn't see something that was three feet away from him and which he was in clear view of

We're not going to agree on this one, I think it should be ruled a no contest

It seem illogical to want to change one single fight and ignore all the others.

The others have already boxed again, Kovalev and Ward haven't..

I don't see what difference that makes or is the truth that Kovalev is a favourite of yours?

Let's not get childish the fight shouldn't have been stopped about 99.9% of fans agree the other 0.1% must be nation of islam or something lol

Random made up stats and casual racism to back it up, Kovalev fan then.

lol I fail to see any racism on my post

Says it all.

You could start an argument in an empty room couldn't you

Herman Jaeger wrote:You could start an argument in an empty room couldn't you

Ignore the troll

When losing and argument and providing absolutely no valid points or making any sense

Play the race card

Probably says far more about him, than it does about us

Herman Jaeger wrote:Let's not get childish the fight shouldn't have been stopped about 99.9% of fans agree the other 0.1% must be nation of islam or something lol

How is that not racial?

You got to be islam if you think that was a fair outcome lol

You think that's an acceptable comment?

Lighten up you no nce

Take the racial crap out of it boys as you've made an interesting point that could have made a good discussion.

There is no reason that the fight can't be labelled a N/C and a rematch ordered BUT if this was going to be the case then it would have to go across the board from now on (can't really go back and retroactively change everything) that means all commissions and belts would have to agree with it and alas we all know our sport still has it's murky offerings so that's not gonna happen.

Ref's make mistakes and admit it all the time in loads of sports but the decision is final. It's a hell of a precedent to set to start no contesting every time it happens.

I think the result stands and it just becomes another 'controversial' result and talking point... that should help create demand for a third fight.

Very true Milky but in a sport like boxing i think it's very doable but would obviously have to be done with caution. The ref could now rule the fight a n/c as there were illegal punches, shouldn't be much of a hassle really and the video evidence is clear, a third fight should then be set up and we as the fans win as we get another cracking fight, although it'd be open to massive abuse then to make more money.

Hmmmm lots to think about there really.

Fair points Derby, especially if the ref admits he got it wrong.

Thing that's unusual about this one a bit for me, is I think only the last punch was clearly below the belt, and he was on the verge of stopping it anyway. Kov was already doubled up which is why the punches were going around the belt line and hard to see from all angles.  If the last punch was legal he'd have likely have stopped it anyway.

It's beside the point really... he stopped it after an illegal punch so it was wrong full stop, but it's unusual.

With all due respect referees may be given back handers to say they made a mistake or strong armed by powerful promoters with too much influence if we start setting a precedent here..

Especially when it comes to big fights and percentages for a rematch.....

If the Champion is stopped and it is turned over.... he may be entitled to an even split instead of the challengers share for the second fight...

Referees may even help a promoter out by making a crap stoppage knowing it will be cancelled out.........

Think you're going down a slippery slope when you start over turning stuff....Where will it end......

As for another Ward v Kovo fight......Apparently the first two weren't profitable so I imagine there won't be a third..

Then again if Ward had been stopped like Kovo I doubt we'd be having this conversation anyway.

You know me Truss, i like to be positive so think none of that ever happens :-). To be honest i believe with any major change like that the whole of boxing needs a massive shakeup as them problems will follow no matter how we try to 'clean' it up.

Totally agree, think if it was the other way round this would have been wrapped up ages ago with little to no 'controversy' around it.

Alas Ward just comes across as arrogant and obnoxious and for some it means ignoring the talent that is quite clearly though. I don't like the guy in the slightest but think there's little arguments to his skill.

milkyboy wrote:Fair points Derby, especially if the ref admits he got it wrong.

Thing that's unusual about this one a bit for me, is I think only the last punch was clearly below the belt, and he was on the verge of stopping it anyway. Kov was already doubled up which is why the punches were going around the belt line and hard to see from all angles.  If the last punch was legal he'd have likely have stopped it anyway.

It's beside the point really... he stopped it after an illegal punch so it was wrong full stop, but it's unusual.

That was a fake twitter account, he didn't admit he was wrong

There is no way they will over turn that decision

Its a damn shame because there is a cloud over that W, whether anyone likes it or not

If Kovo had been stopped after the huge right that rocked him it just would have been a badly timed stoppage and we move on..

The low blows are a way of forgetting why Kovo was struggling on the ropes in the first place.

It hurts when your favorites lose.

The fact is results like Tyson v Ruddock..Chavez v Taylor 1 all stand and the refereeing was arguably more appalling in those fights.

It is a slippery slope to go down...With so much money in Boxing.

Kovalev was struggling but would have finished the round

It's a fallacy to say he was done

Derbymanc wrote:You know me Truss, i like to be positive so think none of that ever happens :-). To be honest i believe with any major change like that the whole of boxing needs a massive shakeup as them problems will follow no matter how we try to 'clean' it up.

Totally agree, think if it was the other way round this would have been wrapped up ages ago with little to no 'controversy' around it.

Alas Ward just comes across as arrogant and obnoxious and for some it means ignoring the talent that is quite clearly though. I don't like the guy in the slightest but think there's little arguments to his skill.

Positive you !!...You are all for multiculturalism but voted for Brexit..You moan because you can't get a few photos from your relatIves.

If you'd been around in the 40s I'd have had to learn German to debate you on here..

But not in the States we are number 1 because we invented positivity.

Ward 2 Kovo 0.
Kennedy 1 Kruschy 0
Reagan 1 Gorbachov 0.

Russians never learn.

Hee hee, not my relatives Truss, the missus, don't like it when people take the mick out of her and then try and take the high ground and multiculturalism is a massive scope of things not just Brexit. I got an F in German so no chance there.
I thought you lot invented freedom though :-)

Nother couple of local shows coming up in mancland if you fancy it (alas i'm at work protecting our shores so won't be there :-)

As long as you know enough German to get your face slapped..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Kovo had been stopped after the huge right that rocked him it just would have been a badly timed stoppage and we move on..

The low blows are a way of forgetting why Kovo was struggling on the ropes in the first place.

It hurts when your favorites lose.

The fact is results like Tyson v Ruddock..Chavez v Taylor 1 all stand and the refereeing was arguably more appalling in those fights.

It is a slippery slope to go down...With so much money in Boxing.

But he didn't and he was fighting back

Just like when Ward was on the verge of getting stopped in the first fight after actually getting dropped

Boxing isn't ended by, "Oh he got hurt once that means he is finished"

I wish we would have got a conclusive ending, but we didn't, if anyone thinks we did they are lying to themselves

All you need to do is look at the online community, most people aren't happy

So a response from Stevenson to Badou Jack but so far no public response to Andre Ward. Classic Stevenson said he wanted the winner of Ward/Kovalev but now it's Badou Jack. Yet Ward is the one the fans want to see:

http://www.boxingscene.com/adonis-stevenson-badou-jack-you-called-me-out-im-ready--120105