Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval

My prediction is victory for Australia overall....

Should be a really entertaining tournament!

[robbo277]

D/L puts Englands 166-3 after 30 as the par score chasing 325. I'm sure England would love to push that to 330/340 with the batting still to come.

[Gooseberry]

D/L puts Englands 166-3 after 30 as the par score chasing 325. I'm sure England would love to push that to 330/340 with the batting still to come.

That was pretty optimistic even before Roots wicket. But yes theres a difference betwene could get and should get. Still hoping for 300+ but theres a danger of getting bowled down to the tail (10/11)

[alfie]

NZ fighting back with the useful golden arm Anderson getting the two big wickets...but the run rate remains good and Buttler is surely due for a score ?
Still a few useful "tailenders" to follow too.

NZ need another wicket soon or they're going to be chasing lots...

[Gooseberry]

Might revise that lkast comment with the way Stokes is going....looks like it might be one of those days where he just gold. Back to the no fear England.
England do need to up that run rate with DL likely to screw them

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Really need Stokes to go big here - after Hales and Root both wasted their starts.

NZ well behind the over rate - like seriously behind. Do they do penalty runs still or will it just be suspensions for the captain?

[VTR]

NZ fighting back with the useful golden arm Anderson getting the two big wickets...but the run rate remains good and Buttler is surely due for a score ?
Still a few useful "tailenders" to follow too.

NZ need another wicket soon or they're going to be chasing lots...

He got 65 not out in the 2nd ODI vs South Africa, so that was just a couple of games ago, one of which he didn't get to bat in, the other was the 20-6 aberration. England looking well placed but equally NZ can check a potential large score with a couple of wickets as England start to take more risks

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Really need Stokes to go big here - after Hales and Root both wasted their starts.

NZ well behind the over rate - like seriously behind. Do they do penalty runs still or will it just be suspensions for the captain?

Stokes gone.

It's all on the Captain nowadays

[alfie]

Hmm. Stokes gone now...

Everyone getting in and then getting out. Should still have fun in the last ten but one of these two at least needs to bat through now.

Credit to NZ - they don't panic , keep varying their attack...restricting the batsmen and profiting from impatience.

[VTR]

NZ do strike and that keeps England in check. Hales, Root and Stokes all failing to go on. Remains to be seen if it will be costly for England, as we are now down to the final pair of big hitters

[dummy_half]

Hmm.  Stokes gone now...

Everyone getting in and then getting out.  Should still have fun in the last ten but one of these two at least needs to bat through now.

Credit to NZ - they don't panic , keep varying their attack...restricting the batsmen and profiting from impatience.  

So far one of those days where we are just losing wickets at the wrong time to get a really big score - keep getting into strong positions and then getting pegged back a bit.

As an aside, 15 at a run a ball from Buttler at the moment. Wonder when he last did that without a boundary?

[alfie]

NZ fighting back with the useful golden arm Anderson getting the two big wickets...but the run rate remains good and Buttler is surely due for a score ?
Still a few useful "tailenders" to follow too.

NZ need another wicket soon or they're going to be chasing lots...

He got 65 not out in the 2nd ODI vs South Africa, so that was just a couple of games ago, one of which he didn't get to bat in, the other was the 20-6 aberration. England looking well placed but equally NZ can check a potential large score with a couple of wickets as England start to take more risks  

Yeah I know he got the sixty odd against SA - though even that wasn't his most fluent innings. But he hasn't been at his best for a while now. The way he plays he will of course sometimes not come off ; but I think it would be a very good day for him to pull out one of his "specials". He has had time to play himself in now so this last ten could be his stage...

[Gooseberry]

Cant help feeling I have commentators curse at the moment, but 300 is still on.
Also Ive saved Roys career in my earlier post ...Aus are doomed.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Trent Boult proves that fast bowlers can be excellent fielders, superb catch to dismiss Moeen

[Gooseberry]

Wheres that rain

[alfie]

Moeen gone too now (top catch by Boult ) so the later order might have to do some work today . Anderson picking up wickets , albeit at a cost.

Buttler can still see England to a good total but NZ are really testing them despite the excellent platform set by Hales and Root. Though perhaps this is not quite as easy a pitch for stroke play as some we've seen recently ? Three hundred - if they get there - may prove better than we think.

Of course the weather is the joker...

[Pal Joey]

Wheres that rain

Pouring here. Gosh we need it!

NZ craftily clawing their way back. England are going to have to start to go for it now... the rain is making things a little more difficult.
More luck like that last shot off the helmet from Buttler and they might approach 300.

I'll go 298.

[alfie]

They'll be off soon , surely ? Looking pretty wet out there...

[Gooseberry]

Rashid gone as well....England will either need a lot of rain or quick wickets at the top here. If they go off now DL will really screw them.

[alfie]

Running out of wickets...

Buttler just not really finding any rhythm yet...he can still marmalize them in the last few overs if he finds his touch.

They have still managed twenty eight off the last three overs so the wickets aren't exactly slowing them. But they might stifle the big finish.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

3 of the last 5 overs will from Southee/Boult, the other 2 need to come from Milne/Anderson/Neesham

[VTR]

Buttler is starting to motor - if he's still there at the end, 330 could be on

[alfie]

Buttler finding his mojo near the end...goes to his fifty with another six

Still time for some fireworks...

[alfie]

Plunkett no mug either...over 300 with a six and they're finishing very well...

[Gooseberry]

They are running about half an hour behind due to poor over rate from NZ. Before KPF and other start whinging when this gets rained off that should be considered too.

[GSC]

England haven't batted well and still pass 300. Could be a decent score still

[alfie]

Plunkett gone after a useful cameo...309/8

One over to get to 320 ?

Edit : maybe not ...duck for Wood.

[GSC]

If Buttlers on strike for this over , 330 might be closer...

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

They are running about half an hour behind due to poor over rate from NZ. Before KPF and other start whinging when this gets rained off that should be considered too.  

Williamson could be banned for the Bangladesh game at this rate

[alfie]

If Buttlers on strike for this over , 330 might be closer...

He's at the wrong end , alas.

All out 310 ! Good finish from Southee.

But I fancy England to defend that . If the weather allows an innings that is.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

310 all out as Southee cleans up the tail.


Could make for some interesting DLS adjustments later

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

That was really poor from wood and ball, really poor

[VTR]

That was really poor from wood and ball, really poor

Yep - easy to say from behind a keyboard but all they had to do was make some non-aerial contact (or even miss the ball) and run like hell to the other end. Both plopping up catches is pretty poor

[Pal Joey]

Not easy conditions to bat on at all.
310 runs is a pretty decent score from England considering the inclement weather.
Now NZ will have to contend with the rain squalls with intermittent patches of sunlight... here and there... just like home I suppose. I hope no D/L is required.
England have those runs on the board; I'd much rather be in their position than trying to chase down 311 runs in the afternoon.

[robbo277]

England post a competitive 310 all out, but if a well set Hales, Root or Stokes had shared Rashid, Plunkett, Woakes and Ball's 23 deliveries, plus the 3 deliveries that went begging at the end, would they have scored more than the 27 our tail added?

NZ came back into it well and finish with their tails up. England will need early wickets, and without Woakes we're quite reliant on Wood in the powerplay. We really need Ball to show up, if not as a wicket-taker he at least needs to keep it tight.

[guildfordbat]

England haven't batted well and still pass 300. Could be a decent score still

Hmmm. Maybe. Cardiff's a fairly small ground though. Admittedly being on the greedy side but when we had about 13 overs left I was looking for us to push towards 350. Really needed two of Stokes, Buttler and Moeen to properly fire for that to happen. That didn't prove to be the case.

Feel we're under par despite Hales' comments on Sky.

A nice boost as well for New Zealand that we didn't bat all our overs. Only 3 balls but still a waste.

Not New Zealand's game at this stage but we are going to have to bowl and field well. Probably will need all 10 wickets for the win.

[Gooseberry]

To my mind every run over 300 was a bonus and using your wickets in some ways is as important as using your overs, it was a well structured innings even if they didnt really get into fifth gear.

Advanatge slightly with NZ as they will almost certainly have a reduced number of overs, but with the rain having held off more than forecast they wont be as certain of the revised target as they may have been. A decent total always brings pressure and early wickets will swing it back Englands way.

Very much all to play for, if they get the chance.

[Gooseberry]

The weather forecast has actualkly improved markedly from this morning, looks like there will only be minimal rain and enough time for a full 50 overs (or close ...if they need it!) despite the slow over rate and probable delay to start.

Just as well KPF isnt in charge of the ICC or wed be on a 35 over match.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Santner was getting some grip towards the end there - hopefully that continues for Moeen and Rashid

[robbo277]

Santner was getting some grip towards the end there - hopefully that continues for Moeen and Rashid

And Root

[guildfordbat]

The weather forecast has actualkly improved markedly from this morning, looks like there will only be minimal rain and enough time for a full 50 overs (or close ...if they need it!) despite the slow over rate and probable delay to start.

Just as well KPF isnt in charge of the ICC or wed be on a 35 over match.

And if I was a spectator at the ground, I'd be at the Cardiff ticket office wanting 30 per cent of the cost of my ticket back.

[robbo277]

The weather forecast has actualkly improved markedly from this morning, looks like there will only be minimal rain and enough time for a full 50 overs (or close ...if they need it!) despite the slow over rate and probable delay to start.

Just as well KPF isnt in charge of the ICC or wed be on a 35 over match.

And if I was a spectator at the ground, I'd be at the Cardiff ticket office wanting 30 per cent of the cost of my ticket back.

In fairness to him, if you see one team bat 50 and the next team bat 17, that's 67 overs for no result, but you won't be getting a partial refund, despite missing a third of your game.

Restart pushed back for rain during the interval, with more rain starting to come now.

[guildfordbat]

The weather forecast has actualkly improved markedly from this morning, looks like there will only be minimal rain and enough time for a full 50 overs (or close ...if they need it!) despite the slow over rate and probable delay to start.

Just as well KPF isnt in charge of the ICC or wed be on a 35 over match.

And if I was a spectator at the ground, I'd be at the Cardiff ticket office wanting 30 per cent of the cost of my ticket back.

In fairness to him, if you see one team bat 50 and the next team bat 17, that's 67 overs for no result, but you won't be getting a partial refund, despite missing a third of your game.

Restart pushed back for rain during the interval, with more rain starting to come now.

Doesn't stop me asking, Robbo!

[Gooseberry]

Oh wow cracking start .

Just what they needed. Ronchi is the one in the top order who gest the score going for them, the only 3 real decent batsmen in the side are relatively pedestrian by modern standards.
If they get bogged down or if England take more wickets in the first 10 its going to be a big mountain to climb.

[Gooseberry]

The weather forecast has actualkly improved markedly from this morning, looks like there will only be minimal rain and enough time for a full 50 overs (or close ...if they need it!) despite the slow over rate and probable delay to start.

Just as well KPF isnt in charge of the ICC or wed be on a 35 over match.

And if I was a spectator at the ground, I'd be at the Cardiff ticket office wanting 30 per cent of the cost of my ticket back.

In fairness to him, if you see one team bat 50 and the next team bat 17, that's 67 overs for no result, but you won't be getting a partial refund, despite missing a third of your game.

Restart pushed back for rain during the interval, with more rain starting to come now.

Yeah but the point is his system wouldve seen the length of the game dictated by the morning forecast, which proved wildly wrong (so far). Maybe youd have in play changes in which case england would have been told actually you need to bat 50 overs when they were nearing the end of their 35. Sure it may increase the chances of a result but it makes the impossible for teams to manage their scoring, bowlers and tactis and would send the DL forecasters into meltdown.

Maybe a better solution would be to split innings. Play 25, put the other side out for 50, then come back and resume where you left off. In theory that would also reduce the impact of the variations of conditions and advantages of knowing what youre chasing or defending. Where rain does affect the length of a gem its more likley that both teams woudl have their overs curtailed rather than just one, or at least a more even split of the effect.
Regardless I dont see any major overhal which further complicates and brings the rules lawyers in further being on the cards.

[alfie]

I'm with LD on this one ...310 is a handy score in these conditions .

Not a done deal at all - and of rain shortens the game it might be awkward. But I'd rather have those runs on the board than be chasing them today.

Good start by the oft - criticized , and admittedly expensive lately - Ball. Useful early wicket.

[VTR]

Very tight start - the NZ plan is to attack the spinners possibly?

[robbo277]

The weather forecast has actualkly improved markedly from this morning, looks like there will only be minimal rain and enough time for a full 50 overs (or close ...if they need it!) despite the slow over rate and probable delay to start.

Just as well KPF isnt in charge of the ICC or wed be on a 35 over match.

And if I was a spectator at the ground, I'd be at the Cardiff ticket office wanting 30 per cent of the cost of my ticket back.

In fairness to him, if you see one team bat 50 and the next team bat 17, that's 67 overs for no result, but you won't be getting a partial refund, despite missing a third of your game.

Restart pushed back for rain during the interval, with more rain starting to come now.

Yeah but the point is his system wouldve seen the length of the game dictated by the morning forecast, which proved wildly wrong (so far). Maybe youd have in play changes in which case england would have been told actually you need to bat 50 overs when they were nearing the end of their 35. Sure it may increase the chances of a result but it makes the impossible for teams to manage their scoring, bowlers and tactis and would send the DL forecasters into meltdown.

Maybe a better solution would be to split innings. Play 25, put the other side out for 50, then come back and resume where you left off. In theory that would also reduce the impact of the variations of conditions and advantages of knowing what youre chasing or defending. Where rain does affect the length of a gem its more likley that both teams woudl have their overs curtailed rather than just one, or at least a more even split of the effect.
Regardless I dont see any major overhal which further complicates and brings the rules lawyers in further being on the cards.

What if you got 30 overs into a game and the umpires then decided to haul you off if rain was still in the forecast - just as if it were raining at that moment?

E.g. if a team were 166-3 after 30, the umpires could take them off and say they've made 325. They could then adjust that down for a 30 over chase with all 10 wickets - so 200-odd? Or they could say the chasing side has up to 30 overs and they'll multiply their score out to make a 50 over score using duckworth lewis in the same way

The match referee could have an equation to work out the discreet point at which they would call the players in. Maybe once the batting team is passed 20 overs, the match referee uses forecasting software to calculate how many more overs play they are expecting and when the total would mean that you have a "level" game.

E.g. if after 20 overs the most likely outcome is 40 more overs play, you give the batting side another 10 then haul them off (unless the forecast changes in the meanwhile). That gives the batting second team around 30 themselves.

[robbo277]

Very tight start - the NZ plan is to attack the spinners possibly?

Possibly. At the end of the powerplay, both teams were 1 down, but England had 50 opposed to NZ's 40.

[robbo277]

NZ are 18 runs behind the Duckworth/Lewis par as we approach the magic 20 over mark. Any ideas on the forecast?

Coney on TMS has put England down as favourites based on how difficult it has been for NZ to get their runs. Still, the first 17 overs have all been pace, and England need to find at least 10 from their spinners. Rashid on now.

[robbo277]

Sounds like England have been close a couple of times, but these two settling in nicely for a 50 run partnership, closing the gap on D/L as well.

Wickets needed for England.

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