Warrenball - feeling the pressure already Mr Gatland?

http://bbc.in/2rKmESz

Who put this guy in charge, cracks are appearing already. Lol :

Its you and the other failed Lions supporters who've cracked; if you really have spent your kids inheritance on an organized tour to NZ which according to you will end in dismal failure and which you seem unable to support, then I guess that emoji suits you pretty well.

Im glad Kiwis give Shag their full support.

We probably need to wheel Borthwick out as the experienced guy to deal with the media.

I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

Our attack never took any real shape due to the many unforced turnovers and handling errors from experienced test players. You can't blame that on a coach that's been with them a few weeks. Very little heads up rugby from starting halfbacks.

We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

As much as people in a stadium should get behind players and be vocal supporters to try and help get the best out of them discussing both positives and negatives and basically having your 2p s worth is what a forum is about.

Completely agree munkian when most moves stop as a pass is thrown 2 foot behind or ahead of where a player is going to be and the unfortunate knock ons no coach is going to be able to help. Seem to remember that game in Hong Kong was similar in grotty sweaty conditions. Handling got better.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Completely agree munkian when most moves stop as a pass is thrown 2 foot behind or ahead of where a player is going to be and the unfortunate knock ons no coach is going to be able to help. Seem to remember that game in Hong Kong was similar in grotty sweaty conditions.  Handling got better.

I could be wrong but I think the schedule was a lot kinder on the last Lion's tour and they had more time together.

If Laidlaw can't spot an'uge gap in front of him and dishes out hospital passes instead any team would struggle to get anything together. There lots of other missed opportunities by other players but that one stood out for me.

Was going to post the same, Munkian. You can't blame Gatland for the slow delivery from scrum half, for the awful play from Sexton, for the balls delivered high or low or behind, for the forward pass from Hogg that was a definite try, or when players do not look up and spot big gaps for a sniping run. Don't say that is Wales/Gatland tactics as his scrum halves such as Webb, Davies and Phillips have been making breaks from scrum half throughout Gatland's tenure.

And no, it's not a pop at individual nationalities. I just think it's far too early to criticise the gameplan when individual errors stopped all momentum the Lions were building. Also, give the opposite some credit - Hogg has been beating players for fun all season and has been given a lot of space to do so (by his teammates and the opposition I guess). The opposition on Saturday closed down his space and his fellow backs didn't really put him in space much. Again, not down to gameplan, IMO, but individuals not performing the basics well enough.

Eddie O'Sullivan seems to think that Gatland is fighting the wrong battles and putting the Lions under unnecessary pressure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40168134

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Do you guys actually read what I typed or read what you think I typed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

I didn't blame Gatland, and said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also blamed the long trip, rustiness and nerves.

Mistakes were made by key players.

AWJ never showed up, probably lacking match fitness.
Warburton looked very rusty.
Hogg again looked rusty and maybe a wee bit unfamiliar with Watson hence the butchered 2 on 1.
Sexton I personally think is still injured.
Farrell scudded the post from an easy kick by his standards.
Henderson looked jaded.
I cannot recall JJ getting the ball at all.

None of that is Gatland's fault, and if you read what I posted I my reasoning was the long flight, lack of game time etc. So please don't just jump down my throat at perceived Wales bashing, because it is getting really boring seeing you pull out the victim card left right and centre.

However what can be blamed on the coaching staff is how our attack disintegrated into Teo and Faletau doing 1 up direct running rugby with the ball rarely getting into JJ's hands as I mentioned in my list above.

I appreciate Gatland will be playing his cards close to his chest but I can't be the only one who was bitterly disappointed with the performance on Saturday.

Griff wrote:Was going to post the same, Munkian. You can't blame Gatland for the slow delivery from scrum half, for the awful play from Sexton, for the balls delivered high or low or behind, for the forward pass from Hogg that was a definite try, or when players do not look up and spot big gaps for a sniping run. Don't say that is Wales/Gatland tactics as his scrum halves such as Webb, Davies and Phillips have been making breaks from scrum half throughout Gatland's tenure.

And no, it's not a pop at individual nationalities. I just think it's far too early to criticise the gameplan when individual errors stopped all momentum the Lions were building. Also, give the opposite some credit - Hogg has been beating players for fun all season and has been given a lot of space to do so (by his teammates and the opposition I guess). The opposition on Saturday closed down his space and his fellow backs didn't really put him in space much. Again, not down to gameplan, IMO, but individuals not performing the basics well enough.

Gatland is to blame for picking Laidlaw who though has his qualities dynamism is not one and an unfit Sexton.

AWJ - who is lucky to be on tour with J.Gray and Launchbury missing out.

Can't expect the best performance when you don't get selections spot on.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Do you guys actually read what I typed or read what you think I typed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

I didn't blame Gatland, and said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also blamed the long trip, rustiness and nerves.

Mistakes were made by key players.

AWJ never showed up, probably lacking match fitness.
Warburton looked very rusty.
Hogg again looked rusty and maybe a wee bit unfamiliar with Watson hence the butchered 2 on 1.
Sexton I personally think is still injured.
Farrell scudded the post from an easy kick by his standards.
Henderson looked jaded.
I cannot recall JJ getting the ball at all.

None of that is Gatland's fault, and if you read what I posted I my reasoning was the long flight, lack of game time etc. So please don't just jump down my throat at perceived Wales bashing, because it is getting really boring seeing you pull out the victim card left right and centre.

However what can be blamed on the coaching staff is how our attack disintegrated into Teo and Faletau doing 1 up direct running rugby with the ball rarely getting into JJ's hands as I mentioned in my list above.

I appreciate Gatland will be playing his cards close to his chest but I can't be the only one who was bitterly disappointed with the performance on Saturday.

Guys ?

munkian wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Do you guys actually read what I typed or read what you think I typed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

I didn't blame Gatland, and said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also blamed the long trip, rustiness and nerves.

Mistakes were made by key players.

AWJ never showed up, probably lacking match fitness.
Warburton looked very rusty.
Hogg again looked rusty and maybe a wee bit unfamiliar with Watson hence the butchered 2 on 1.
Sexton I personally think is still injured.
Farrell scudded the post from an easy kick by his standards.
Henderson looked jaded.
I cannot recall JJ getting the ball at all.

None of that is Gatland's fault, and if you read what I posted I my reasoning was the long flight, lack of game time etc. So please don't just jump down my throat at perceived Wales bashing, because it is getting really boring seeing you pull out the victim card left right and centre.

However what can be blamed on the coaching staff is how our attack disintegrated into Teo and Faletau doing 1 up direct running rugby with the ball rarely getting into JJ's hands as I mentioned in my list above.

I appreciate Gatland will be playing his cards close to his chest but I can't be the only one who was bitterly disappointed with the performance on Saturday.

Guys ?

Ok Glwad.

Love how you paint all Welsh posters with the same brush then throw out the 'victim card' rubbish.

Are we basing 'AWJ' not showing up on him being clattered after that absolute hospital pass from Laidlaw ?

Yeah, I was just answering the OP to be honest.

However this line did make me sit up: "However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny."

There were zero Welsh backs starting and only a scrum half that came on later. It was those players on the field playing dirge. I didn't see a Wales gameplan there. I just saw players making basic mistakes.

Just to add another point, we got over the try line something like 4 times. However, there seemed no urgency or desire to make a big effort to ground it. I reckon we could have had a few tries if they'd really tried harder there. It was like they got over the try line and just went limp hoping that gravity would work its magic. I want to see a player wrestling to get the ball down (while obviously not doing a double movement).

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Isn't some of the criticism being levelled at Gatland (and Howley) the very same that Welsh fans have been complaining about with Team Wales ie slow, stodgy play, picking favourites and/or out of form players?

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Isn't some of the criticism being levelled at Gatland (and Howley) the very same that Welsh fans have been complaining about with Team Wales ie slow, stodgy play, picking favourites and/or out of form players?

One rusty game, Cyril, FFS! Why is anything being levelled at Gatland and the gameplan after that? It was a warm up.

Griff wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Isn't some of the criticism being levelled at Gatland (and Howley) the very same that Welsh fans have been complaining about with Team Wales ie slow, stodgy play, picking favourites and/or out of form players?

One rusty game, Cyril, FFS! Why is anything being levelled at Gatland and the gameplan after that? It was a warm up.

Why? Because the betting handicap was to win by 30 odd and we won by 6. However, agree that it's not all on him.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

munkian wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Do you guys actually read what I typed or read what you think I typed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

I didn't blame Gatland, and said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also blamed the long trip, rustiness and nerves.

Mistakes were made by key players.

AWJ never showed up, probably lacking match fitness.
Warburton looked very rusty.
Hogg again looked rusty and maybe a wee bit unfamiliar with Watson hence the butchered 2 on 1.
Sexton I personally think is still injured.
Farrell scudded the post from an easy kick by his standards.
Henderson looked jaded.
I cannot recall JJ getting the ball at all.

None of that is Gatland's fault, and if you read what I posted I my reasoning was the long flight, lack of game time etc. So please don't just jump down my throat at perceived Wales bashing, because it is getting really boring seeing you pull out the victim card left right and centre.

However what can be blamed on the coaching staff is how our attack disintegrated into Teo and Faletau doing 1 up direct running rugby with the ball rarely getting into JJ's hands as I mentioned in my list above.

I appreciate Gatland will be playing his cards close to his chest but I can't be the only one who was bitterly disappointed with the performance on Saturday.

Guys ?

Ok Glwad.

He who thinks everything is about Wales? Even if you don't mention Wales you'll be accused of being anti Welsh. If you criticize Warren (who is from New Zealand) you are labelled a Wales hater.

In this logic, each time I've seen you criticize Scotland or Vern Cotter for picking Ryan Wilson at 8 or Duncan Weir at 10, I should have labelled you a traitor to the nation and insisted that you hand over your passport after being deposited on a bleak, unforgiving wilderness. Like Port Talbot!

tigertattie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

munkian wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Do you guys actually read what I typed or read what you think I typed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

I didn't blame Gatland, and said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also blamed the long trip, rustiness and nerves.

Mistakes were made by key players.

AWJ never showed up, probably lacking match fitness.
Warburton looked very rusty.
Hogg again looked rusty and maybe a wee bit unfamiliar with Watson hence the butchered 2 on 1.
Sexton I personally think is still injured.
Farrell scudded the post from an easy kick by his standards.
Henderson looked jaded.
I cannot recall JJ getting the ball at all.

None of that is Gatland's fault, and if you read what I posted I my reasoning was the long flight, lack of game time etc. So please don't just jump down my throat at perceived Wales bashing, because it is getting really boring seeing you pull out the victim card left right and centre.

However what can be blamed on the coaching staff is how our attack disintegrated into Teo and Faletau doing 1 up direct running rugby with the ball rarely getting into JJ's hands as I mentioned in my list above.

I appreciate Gatland will be playing his cards close to his chest but I can't be the only one who was bitterly disappointed with the performance on Saturday.

Guys ?

Ok Glwad.

He who thinks everything is about Wales? Even if you don't mention Wales you'll be accused of being anti Welsh. If you criticize Warren (who is from New Zealand) you are labelled a Wales hater.

In this logic, each time I've seen you criticize Scotland or Vern Cotter for picking Ryan Wilson at 8 or Duncan Weir at 10, I should have labelled you a traitor to the nation and insisted that you hand over your passport after being deposited on a bleak, unforgiving wilderness. Like Port Talbot!

Or Scotland!

Griff wrote:Yeah, I was just answering the OP to be honest.

However this line did make me sit up: "However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny."

There were zero Welsh backs starting and only a scrum half that came on later. It was those players on the field playing dirge. I didn't see a Wales gameplan there. I just saw players making basic mistakes.

Just to add another point, we got over the try line something like 4 times. However, there seemed no urgency or desire to make a big effort to ground it. I reckon we could have had a few tries if they'd really tried harder there. It was like they got over the try line and just went limp hoping that gravity would work its magic. I want to see a player wrestling to get the ball down (while obviously not doing a double movement).

I'm glad you mentioned that Griff. Because the Welsh centre combination of Williams and Davies looked dire for Wales too. However for the Scarlets they were electric as the pro12 was wrapped up.

All I'm pointing out is that skillful and talented players appear to look hapless in the company of Rob Howley...

I'm being facetious of course, however I do hope things improve rapidly, because the Kiwi press look like they are going to bait Gatland all tour long.

Hopefully Gatland is just following Sun Tzu's advice. Appear weak when you're strong, and strong when you're weak.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We don't stand a chance if this is what people like ruggeradge call support. Get off your Mylittlepony and support the guy ffs.

I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Do you guys actually read what I typed or read what you think I typed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm willing to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt. The Lions will always have my full support. Gatland has my full support too (for now).

However the fact remains, our shapeless attack on Saturday was so reminiscent of the dirge Wales served up in the 6N it was uncanny.

Players who had been electric all season Watson, Seymour and Hogg all of a sudden looked ponderous and indecisive.

I'm reserving judgement for now and putting the blame on a long trip, rust and a wee bit of nerves, but we really need to see improvements over the next couple of games or the tour is in danger of spiralling into a farce.

I didn't blame Gatland, and said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also blamed the long trip, rustiness and nerves.

Mistakes were made by key players.

AWJ never showed up, probably lacking match fitness.
Warburton looked very rusty.
Hogg again looked rusty and maybe a wee bit unfamiliar with Watson hence the butchered 2 on 1.
Sexton I personally think is still injured.
Farrell scudded the post from an easy kick by his standards.
Henderson looked jaded.
I cannot recall JJ getting the ball at all.

None of that is Gatland's fault, and if you read what I posted I my reasoning was the long flight, lack of game time etc. So please don't just jump down my throat at perceived Wales bashing, because it is getting really boring seeing you pull out the victim card left right and centre.

However what can be blamed on the coaching staff is how our attack disintegrated into Teo and Faletau doing 1 up direct running rugby with the ball rarely getting into JJ's hands as I mentioned in my list above.

I appreciate Gatland will be playing his cards close to his chest but I can't be the only one who was bitterly disappointed with the performance on Saturday.

I BLAME GATLAND.

No one forced him to pick Howley as attack coach.

Rugby has moved on, Gatland, Howley and Welsh tactics have not.

Good attacking players looked like they were playing by percentages and scared to try anything different.
Blaming it on jet lag is rubbish, The backrow players didn't look jet lagged although I accept their game plan is a little easier to execute.

I am just worried Gatland will likely start Moriarty vs the ABs.

Looks like he'll worm his way into the starting line up.

Howley is the bigger problem as you say Ruggerradge.

Most important thing Gatland can do is get selection right - if he keeps Biggar,Halfpenny and Moriarty out of the 23 vs ABs he's on the right track.

Farrell Sr isn't known for his backs either - every team he seems to coach he generally restricts the backs - whether it's Saracens,England or Ireland.

With him out of the picture, the teams have scored more tries generally.

Even Farrell Jr has become a more attacking player when not coached by his father IMO.

beshocked wrote:I am just worried Gatland will likely start Moriarty vs the ABs.

Looks like he'll worm his way into the starting line up.

Howley is the bigger problem as you say Ruggerradge.

Most important thing Gatland can do is get selection right - if he keeps Biggar,Halfpenny and Moriarty out of the 23 vs ABs he's on the right track.

Farrell Sr isn't known for his backs either - every team he seems to coach he generally restricts the backs - whether it's Saracens,England or Ireland.

With him out of the picture, the teams have scored more tries generally.

Even Farrell Jr has become a more attacking player when not coached by his father IMO.

Worm??? Surely you mean "play" his way into the starting line-up, and would it be the worst thing if a form player got picked?

Moriarty is this year's Lydiate.

Gwlad wrote:
I really believe that some so called Lions supporters on here would actually like to see us fail just so they can be right in their pathetic assumptions about Gatland and anything Welsh

Looks like others are feeling the pressure too.

Maybe picking so many players and coaches from a team that finished 5th in the 6 nations was the first major and possible fatal mistake the Lions made on this tour.

Ireland showed how to beat NZ only last year, it really wasn't rocket science but 'OUR' Lions headcoach decided he knew best and on the evidence so far doesn't look like his diverted away from his one and only gameplan. (Big 12 running up the middle.)

I hope I'm wrong as I've spent a fortune on kit and to watch them.

Well, he has a real bee in his bonnet about Moriarty - and seems to believe coaches pick a team for reasons other than they think it is the best one to win a game.

If Moriarty is selected for the tests it will be because Gats and the other coaches (including the former messiah Borthwick) believe he is the best man available for the job. We may disagree with that assertion, but there will be no ulterior motive behind his selection.

Londontiger for once you can't accuse me of Saracens bias because there are no Saracens backrowers missing out. Billy obviously is but that's injury.

Not even you can argue with Borthwick's pretty impressive coaching record so far despite being relatively new.

I just don't understand the Moriarty hype. Hasn't got the workrate of others, he's not as powerful as others and doesn't make the turnovers. I am not sure what he actually offers over the likes of POM,Robshaw,Stander,Faletau as a 6 or as a 8.

no 7 & 1/2 did you rate Lydiate? He's another player I thought was overrated.

robbo277 okay I could say sneak into the team. He's just not as good as some people think.

Dan Lydiate was world class......

EoS, just another bitter Irishman on the same high horse as their booing fans. When Gatland walks out of his job with his tail between his legs then perhaps Eddie will have a leg to stand on.

Both Lydiate and moriarty were / are excellent defensive flankers imo beshocked. Lydiate wasn't fit last time and shouldn't have gone. Moriarty this time, I wouldn't have picked him but gatland I think wants to contain nz.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Moriarty is this year's Lydiate.

Apart from the fact that he can carry the ball...

I'm hoping to see this if he does get in the tests munkian. I've been told I'm wrong that his carrying is underpar by wales and glaws fans. Maybe I'm looking too much at his 6ns.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Both Lydiate and moriarty were / are excellent defensive flankers imo beshocked. Lydiate wasn't fit last time and shouldn't have gone. Moriarty this time, I wouldn't have picked him but gatland I think wants to contain nz.

The difference being that Moriarty, despite his relative lack of experience, is in form and played well on his first outing; so far he's done all he could to justify his selection. Lydiate wasn't fit and visibly struggled through much of the 2013 tour.

mikey dragon Welsh fans don't seem to care how Wales have stagnated in the last 3-4 years. I doubt you'll get rid of Gatland - that 1 win vs England in the 2015 RWC means he has kept his job.

Coaches have a sell by date - Gatland's ideas are stale and generally not successful vs SH sides.

I wouldn't actually mind a strong Wales but with Gatland and Howley looking after Wales you'll pick up some wins vs NH sides but still struggle vs the SH sides.

Whether you like Jones or Schmidt they've picked up notable wins vs the SH sides.

no 7 & 1/2 I think both are limited players, I think the comparison with Lydiate is accurate. I think they show a negative mindset based on stopping the opposition and not being positive.

You can't contain NZ for the full 80 - if the rare wins over NZ show anything it's that you have to play aggressive and attack the ABs.

Moriarty might well look good vs weaker opposition but NZ are the best team in the world.

Did BS even watch that first outing?

Oh there's a surprise BS shows up again and starts dragging it off topic

beshocked wrote: mikey dragon Welsh fans don't seem to care how Wales have stagnated in the last 3-4 years. I doubt you'll get rid of Gatland - that 1 win vs England in the 2015 RWC means he has kept his job.

Coaches have a sell by date - Gatland's ideas are stale and generally not successful vs SH sides.

I wouldn't actually mind a strong Wales but with Gatland and Howley looking after Wales you'll pick up some wins vs NH sides but still struggle vs the SH sides.

Whether you like Jones or Schmidt they've picked up notable wins vs the SH sides.

no 7 & 1/2 I think both are limited players, I think the comparison with Lydiate is accurate. I think they show a negative mindset based on stopping the opposition and not being positive.

You can't contain NZ for the full 80 - if the rare wins over NZ show anything it's that you have to play aggressive and attack the ABs.

Moriarty might well look good vs weaker opposition but NZ are the best team in the world.

I know you're a stats man first and foremost, but where is your proof?

Topic is about Gatland.

Wales are 8th in the world. Weren't they 4th in 2012?

5th in the 6 nations 2017, 1st in 2012.

Still dragging it off topic with incorrect references.

*and still avoids questions he can't answer.

beshocked wrote:Topic is about Gatland.

Wales are 8th in the world. Weren't they 4th in 2012?

5th in the 6 nations 2017, 1st in 2012.

Mikey is right, clearly they haven't stagnated.

That's freefall not stagnation.

beshocked wrote:mikey dragon Welsh fans don't seem to care how Wales have stagnated in the last 3-4 years. I doubt you'll get rid of Gatland - that 1 win vs England in the 2015 RWC means he has kept his job.

Coaches have a sell by date - Gatland's ideas are stale and generally not successful vs SH sides.

I wouldn't actually mind a strong Wales but with Gatland and Howley looking after Wales you'll pick up some wins vs NH sides but still struggle vs the SH sides.

Whether you like Jones or Schmidt they've picked up notable wins vs the SH sides.

no 7 & 1/2 I think both are limited players, I think the comparison with Lydiate is accurate. I think they show a negative mindset based on stopping the opposition and not being positive.

You can't contain NZ for the full 80 - if the rare wins over NZ show anything it's that you have to play aggressive and attack the ABs.

Moriarty might well look good vs weaker opposition but NZ are the best team in the world.

Moriarty got plaudits from all over for his performance against England in the 6 Nations

munkian wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Moriarty might well look good vs weaker opposition but NZ are the best team in the world.

Moriarty got plaudits from all over for his performance against England in the 6 Nations  

Youre right that was a stupid statement, of ocurse england are stronger opposition that New Zealand

munkian wrote:

beshocked wrote:mikey dragon Welsh fans don't seem to care how Wales have stagnated in the last 3-4 years. I doubt you'll get rid of Gatland - that 1 win vs England in the 2015 RWC means he has kept his job.

Coaches have a sell by date - Gatland's ideas are stale and generally not successful vs SH sides.

I wouldn't actually mind a strong Wales but with Gatland and Howley looking after Wales you'll pick up some wins vs NH sides but still struggle vs the SH sides.

Whether you like Jones or Schmidt they've picked up notable wins vs the SH sides.

no 7 & 1/2 I think both are limited players, I think the comparison with Lydiate is accurate. I think they show a negative mindset based on stopping the opposition and not being positive.

You can't contain NZ for the full 80 - if the rare wins over NZ show anything it's that you have to play aggressive and attack the ABs.

Moriarty might well look good vs weaker opposition but NZ are the best team in the world.

Moriarty got plaudits from all over for his performance against England in the 6 Nations  

That he did, but Howley didn't hence why he took him off.

Not really. Gatland should be feeling the pressure. They just beat the weakest side they will face by only a few points. It's worrying.

He has access to very good players, better than he has with Wales alone too. Getting cohesion isn't easy but a scratch rookie England side beat a very experience Ba Bas side.

Surely a team with the best of 4 nations should be doing better!

Hogg had an excellent 6 nations yet under Gatland and Howley he's been poor so far - is it really just Hogg's fault?

Good coaches bring out the best in players, bad coaches bring out the worst.


Moriarty did face a thrown together backrow of Itoje,Clifford and Hughes whilst he was with the much more experienced Tipuric and Warburton.

Not going to seriously compare that English backrow that day to NZ....

Gooseberry wrote:

munkian wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Moriarty might well look good vs weaker opposition but NZ are the best team in the world.

Moriarty got plaudits from all over for his performance against England in the 6 Nations  

Youre right that was a stupid statement, of ocurse england are stronger opposition that New Zealand

We'll never know until Eddie mans up and actually plays them.

Scottrf wrote:

beshocked wrote:Topic is about Gatland.

Wales are 8th in the world. Weren't they 4th in 2012?

5th in the 6 nations 2017, 1st in 2012.

Mikey is right, clearly they haven't stagnated.

That's freefall not stagnation.

2017 Gats wasn't Wales coach, therefore an incorrect reference. I didn't say Wales have not stagnated, freefalled, etc.

Why are the English so intent on ruining the Lions with their wumming and lack of unity?