The 6th Place Trophy - The 2017/18 Premier League Thread

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

The fixtures have been released, players have been signed and summer is already a bit boring, so here's the Premier League 2017/18 season thread.

Opening fixtures:

Arsenal v Leicester City
Brighton & Hove Albion v Manchester City
Chelsea v Burnley
Crystal Palace v Huddersfield Town
Everton v Stoke City
Manchester United v West Ham United
Newcastle United v Tottenham Hotspur
Southampton v Swansea City
Watford v Liverpool
West Bromwich Albion v Bournemouth

[Fernando]

Arsenal 5-1 Everton in the last game

Ramsey hat trick
Mkhitaryan 3 assists
Aubameyang scores on debut.
Koscielny too

Good day

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Harry Kane out there showing how your main striker takes penalties in a World Cup year

[No name Bertie]

I hope those penalty decisions given to Tottenham are reviewed - they both looked like clear dives when viewed in slow motion.

[No name Bertie]

Hmmm although they looked like clear dives to me - there are several tv commentators saying there was "contact" and the players had a "right" to go down.  Yet sometimes the "contact" is initiated by the player diving - either through dangling their foot (Kane's dive in my opinion) or in backing into someone (lamela's dive in my opinion).  Yet even with tv replays there are differences of opinion - which shows as things are the VAR system isn't going to resolve many issues.  Incidentally tv commentators are saying the first penalty should not have been given because it was offside, but that Kane didn't dive because there was "contact".

[Fernando]

It genuinely worries me people thinking Virgil kicking Lamela isn't a penalty.

[No name Bertie]

It genuinely worries me that there are people driving around who need to have their eyes tested.

[Fernando]

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Van Dijk is rubbish hence why he's perfect for Liverpool

[Guest]

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Linesman did amazingly on that second one, and I think it sounds like he was doing his job on the offside of the first but Moss overruled.

Fair result and certainly the penalty aspects were all called correctly

[Fernando]

On sky ye could hear him say he couldn't say for sure if was Lovren that touched it hence why it was overruled by the tub of lard.

[compelling and rich]

neither were pens for me, VVD barely touched him and lamela threw himself to the ground looking for a pen. in no way was lamela actually impeded

the sooner we get away from players purposely throwing themselves to the ground to win fouls the better football will become. its become a non contact stop start boring game

[Fernando]

Barely touched him...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

You can say "players shouldn't throw themselves to the ground" but it's nonsense. We see time and again if they don't do that, the referees won't give a penalty. If Lamela doesn't go down there, he loses his team a crucial point.

Until refs start giving penalties to honest players, it won't stop

[GSC]

Rather than consistently finding excuses, maybe Klopp should look at why Liverpool are consistently defensively frail in key moments

[lfc91]

Rather than consistently finding excuses, maybe Klopp should look at why Liverpool are consistently defensively frail in key moments

Would be almost certain it is something he is looking at behind closed doors, regardless of what he says to the media to protect his players. Like you say, consistently frail. No one could argue with that as far as im concerned. The fact that it is still such a prevalent issue is the responsibility of all involved.

As for the match, I think the first one should never of been a pen. Second one I can understand why that is given. Clearly my opinion is more than a bit biased though. Shame really, all the controversy takes the shine of what was a great game. Spurs good value for the draw overall, definitely in the ascendancy for the majority of the second half after Liverpool controlled the first.

Although to lose to points to a dubious 95th minute penalty will never be an easy pill to swallow for any fan...

[LivinginItaly]

To be honest if the roles were reversed I would have been claiming both penalties for Liverpool.

The real problem was that Liverpool allowed Spurs back into the game in the second half as we stopped pressing as much, down to tiredness and two strange substitutions.

[Born Slippy]

The second one yesterday was a totally stonewall penalty. If you kick a player in the leg, even if your actual intention was to kick the ball, then that’s going to be a foul.

The first one shouldn’t be a penalty (as a sensible offside rule should apply). However, on the basis of the actual rule in plac, Kane wasn’t offside and was then clipped.

Basically, both decisions were correct.

[Ent]

Think Kane dived for the first and the way the offside rule is written has been incorrectly interpreted by the officials.

Second was an obvious penalty.

[sirfredperry]

neither were pens for me, VVD barely touched him and lamela threw himself to the ground looking for a pen. in no way was lamela actually impeded

the sooner we get away from players purposely throwing themselves to the ground to win fouls the better football will become. its become a non contact stop start boring game

The only way to stop players diving or going down under very slight contact is to get refs to book players EVERY time they go down in the box. Eventually players will realise that they are more likely to get booked than get a penalty and they will try to stay on their feet.
   At present what we are seeing is a forward through on the goalkeeper, kicking the ball past him and then going down over the keeper's arms. Invariably, a penalty is given. How many times do you see a player trying to take the ball around the goalkeeper? Diving is endemic. Some players are serial divers. Everyone does it occasionally. I'd rather see some stonewall penalties denied if it helped stamp it out. Dele Ali should have had a penalty at Wembley v Man U last week but refs are now wise to his antics and it was judged not a foul on his reputation (and I'm a Spurs fan).He was deservedly booked at Anfield last night.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

You want penalties denied to stop people diving? Now that is an interesting take.

[Ent]

Is bakayoko really this bad? Anyone see much of him before he joined Chelsea? Looks like an Ali dia style imposter.

[Guest]

Remember watching him for Monaco vs Juventus, and he was appalling. Rio Ferdinand said he wasn’t ready at the time, and he would be surprised if anybody poached him. Conte did for £40m, and will probably pay for it with his job.

Probably fear for Chelsea getting a top 4. Negative atmosphere there right now, might see Luis Enrique earlier than expected.

[Ent]

Whilst matic hasn't been pulling up trees for united swapping him for bakayoko looks to be up there with the all time worst transfer strategies.

[JDizzle]

Feels like the Conte era is over.

Don’t profess to know much of Baka pre-Chelsea, but he had a nasty knee injury over the summer - so prepared to give him another season after a full pre season.

[GSC]

Antonio, HR would like a word...

[Ent]

Feels like the Conte era is over.

Don’t profess to know much of Baka pre-Chelsea, but he had a nasty knee injury over the summer - so prepared to give him another season after a full pre season.

Does a knee injury stop you from controlling the ball or being able to pass it 15 yards to a team mate?

I'm not sure I've seen a worse player in the PL and fellaini plays for my team...

Conte got over the top credit last year for chelseas title win so I assume it is now all his fault Chelsea are gash.

[JDizzle]

Not being able to control the ball or pass to a teammate didn’t stop Kante from winning PotY last year...

And if your fitness/sharpness, call it what you like, is off and everything is happening too quickly for you then yes, it will affect your ability.

[Ent]

Not when you aren't under pressure, guys who are retired 10 years still have their touch - it's the last thing to go.

[No name Bertie]

It genuinely worries me people thinking Virgil kicking Lamela isn't a penalty.  

Fernando you wilfully decided to ignore the argument of my comment and disingenuously infer I condone kicking when I explain in my comment the action replay shows V van Dijk retracting his leg before contact, such that either there is no contact or there is a minimal contact.  And there is certainly nothing there to explain Lamela throwing himself to the ground.  The picture you showed doesn't show contact because it is at the wrong angle - if you had studied art or geometry you would know about foreshortening effects.

This video shows there was NO contact despite what the commentator is saying in real time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6iS5V0t8x4

[lfc91]

It genuinely worries me people thinking Virgil kicking Lamela isn't a penalty.  

Fernando you wilfully decided to ignore the argument of my comment and disingenuously infer I condone kicking when I explain in my comment the action replay shows V van Dijk retracting his leg before contact, such that either there is no contact or there is a minimal contact.  And there is certainly nothing there to explain Lamela throwing himself to the ground.  The picture you showed doesn't show contact because it is at the wrong angle - if you had studied art or geometry you would know about foreshortening effects.

This video shows there was NO contact despite what the commentator is saying in real time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6iS5V0t8x4

From that video it does certainly look like there was zero contact and VVD pulled out at the last minute. Just adds to the frustration.

[Fernando]

It genuinely worries me people thinking Virgil kicking Lamela isn't a penalty.  

Fernando you wilfully decided to ignore the argument of my comment and disingenuously infer I condone kicking when I explain in my comment the action replay shows V van Dijk retracting his leg before contact, such that either there is no contact or there is a minimal contact.  And there is certainly nothing there to explain Lamela throwing himself to the ground.  The picture you showed doesn't show contact because it is at the wrong angle - if you had studied art or geometry you would know about foreshortening effects.

This video shows there was NO contact despite what the commentator is saying in real time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6iS5V0t8x4

From that video it does certainly look like there was zero contact and VVD pulled out at the last minute. Just adds to the frustration.

Again i shall post this. It's quite clear there is contact weather minimal or not you can't do that anywhere on the pitch without being penalized.

[compelling and rich]

why is a photo better evidence than the actual video of the incident. im by no means a liverpool fan, in fact i was laughing when it was given. still doesn't mean its a pen. the contact if there is any at all is so minimal that it does not effect lamela from carrying on at all i.e actually impedes him so its a foul). the only thing that stops lamela is lamela trying to con the ref

should give one game bans to anyone found over exaggerating contact to try and con the ref, should be a 3 game ban for anyone going to ground under no contact whatsoever. we'd soon see a stop to it even if a few do get harshly done.

watching football is embarrassing these days. it is after all supposed to be still a contact game

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It was a pen, people have gone mental with this whole thing about contact now. Impeding someone is a foul, doesn't matter if he only nudges him. Especially as he can see a leg swinging at him, he's gonna be preparing for contact. 

I thought Kane was fouled too. I always think of it as this: if someone lunges in at you and is about to crush your ankle, and you jump to avoid that, you have been impeded. If a keeper flies out and would take someone out were they not to jump, why am I inviting people to risk injury?

Three game bans are for serious offences. Dangerous play is a serious offence. You're gonna have to start sending people off for intentional "tactical" fouls too. And appealing for throw-ins that you know you haven't won is deceiving the ref too.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Oh, we're signing Evra. That'll save us

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Lacazette's arsenal career is as good as over. He was no more than a panic buy. He lacks the quality and he's essentially 5th or 6th choice for Les Bleus. Wenger wouldn't have spent £60m on P-EA if lacazette wasn't a mistake.

[Ent]

Good to see ozil celebrating his bumper new sea by taking the day off.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The ludicrously entertaining and sickening drama of the relegation battle, always the most interesting story of the Premier League every single season, has seen Stoke miss a last minute penalty to beat fellow fighters Brighton, whilst the Swansea resurgence continues by beating a Burnley team who look to me to be settled with what they've got.

[sirfredperry]

Second big-six match running at Wembley in which Spurs should have won far more comfortably. Apart from Man City, the teams this season are not that outstanding. Be interesting to see how far the English sides go in the Champs League.

[Ent]

Diabolical yet again so far from united.

[Guest]

Diabolical yet again so far from united.

Beyond awful. Praying we hold on

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Mourinho heading the way of Wenger. What a shocking defeat to the fat Spanish waiter

[Dolphin Ziggler]

10 points from the relegation zone to 7th. 6 points between 10th and 19th

[Ent]

Such a poor poor team.

Newcastle deserves that, united a shambles yet again.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If City win their next six games, they’re champions. That 6th game is against Manchester United

[Ent]

They'll be crowned before that, no chance united are winning their next 5 games.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Smalling though

[Ent]

Smalling though

He's a shambles of a Ayer, also an idiot - he shares that in common with most of this united squad.

[Ent]

Comedy error in the Southampton game and Liverpool go 1 up early.

[No name Bertie]

There is a good chance that Southampton will be relegated. They have the most difficult remaining fixtures in terms of having to play 7 away fixtures and four home fixtures. Considering the remaining fixtures I have WBA, Stoke and Southampton as favourites for relegation (and they just happen to now occupy the three relegation spots). Of course a lot can change from now until the end of the season. But all things being equal they are the favourites. I also have Watford and Bournemouth comfortably staying up.

Relegation favourites: WBA, Stoke, Southampton.
In Danger: Huddersfield, Newcastle, Palace, Brighton, Swansea, West Ham

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