Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[Guest]

Too early?!  Never mind.

So, big changes are afoot at Dave Parade.  There's been loads of arguments about the best way forward, the pros and cons of regional v club rugby, and I'm sure there'll be many more to come.  But what's done is done and, for now, we have a pro team at Dave Parade to support next year.  A few weeks ago even that was in jeopardy.  So moving forward...

Ownership:
So the WRU has taken over the reigns.  I'll add updates here as and when we know them, but the formal split from Newport RFC should mean 'cleaner' or more straightforward to understand revenue streams.  

Pitch:
A new one is being laid as we speak.  This original pitch has been part and parcel of the problems at RP for a number of years.  A BBC report showed it to be up there as the most used pitch pro pitch in the UK.  Something had to be done.  A fully synthetic pitch was mooted and preferred by some, a al Blues, Saracens, Glasgow, et al.  However, FA rules state that football clubs cannot play on these surfaces (probably since the AstroTurf days of Luton Town, etc.).  So it looks like a compromise has been agreed with a 4g semi-synthetic pitch, like those used by many football clubs, Swansea City/Ospreys, Millennium Stadium, Aviva Stadium, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Cardiff City stadium, etc.  A weave of synthetic fibres and real grass meaning it's easier to maintain, less prone to weather damage, but still sort of like the real thing.  This will be a real move forward and should improve the product on the field.  A bit.

Personnel:
New coach - Huw Jackman.  Comes with a good reputation for hard work and attacking rugby.  Good stuff.
Gavin Henson - I'm happy with this.  Despite his knockers, so to speak, he is still a classy club player and performed well in the English Prem with Bristol, when not injured.  Which is the crux of the issue.  Hopefully we can keep him fit for an extended run of games.
Zane Kirchner - On paper a quality player but as with a lot of good players, when they are in the twighlight of their careers and join a 'lesser' club more often than not they do not perform as expected.  Let's hope he is an exception to the rule.  Did Jackman and Kirchner play together at Leinster?


Transfers In:

Bernard 'No Pudding' Jackman - coach
Gavin Henson
Zane Kirchner

Transfers Out:
Shaun Knight
Nick Crosswell
Tom Prydie
Geraint Rhys Jones
Darren Harris
Craig Mitchell


New Badge:

[Guest]

[mikey_dragon]

Left the old thread behind already have we?

[Guest]

Yeah, we usually have a new one for each season. And as we're going to have a new name, etc. Why not!

[ScarletSpiderman]

I heard that puddings are being removed from the menu

[RiscaGame]

Still early days yet, so not got too much to say. Whilst I am happy just to have the name streamlined and for a welcome kick up the backside for the region, I am still a little underwhelmed from last season and unsure of the direction we will take.

The new logo I didn't see the point of, when they could've just kept the tail as it was and not redesigned it by adding a shield and the Dragons writing. There has been stock with just that tail on, so does that now go to waste?

Henson I am pretty excited to see, if he remains fit. I am unsure of Kirchener. I quite like the sound of Jackman's attacking mindset, but was disappointed to see him name drop Dorian Jones as one of our tens and that he would be keen to see how the current squad performs under new management. I assume he must be aware of what positions we badly need strengthening.

[GavinDragon]

Was at the meeting.

Jackman spoke well. Big on discipline and getting the environment right to get the best out of the players. Will work with what he has this season, get the environment right off the field which will hopefully turn a few of those narrow losses into wins. - Interestingly when asked about players he is looking forward to working with, the response was Blake and Leon Brown.

The direction is clear. It is a Gwent region and the team's name is the Dragons. Martyn Phillips actually asked those on tables in the room to give their views on how we can fill Rodney Parade for first game of the season by enticing fans from all around the region. A bus from Ebbw Vale down through the valley will no doubt be looked into for first game of the season. One game this year will also be played away from RP this year.

The pitch will be ready by 2nd game of season and the improved condition will help the type of rugby we are looking to play.

New logo. Personally, and initially, I would have preferred something more radical and a colour scheme change, but it did grow on me as I continued to look at it on screen.

As the logo has changed, I think the kit may not be ready for first game of the season. Sadly it is still likely to be Gilbert, but fingers crossed for next year.

[GavinDragon]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15358909.As_it_happened__Jackman_s_first_press_conference/

[RiscaGame]

At least they have a genuine excuse for the kit this season though, rather than arguing over who was more incompetent/to blame.

[RiscaGame]

I did like this explanation from Jackman

Last season the Irishman annoyed a section of the Grenoble squad by banning pudding from the menu at the training ground while some felt his regime was too demanding.

“The dessert issue for me was because there were a lot of players in our squad who didn’t have acceptable body fat levels,” said Jackman.

“I did ban desserts – part of the reason was I was eating them all myself! – but I want the team I coach to be unbelievably detailed in their level of excellence and search to be professional.

“If there are people who don’t agree with that then obviously we will have conflict. I wouldn’t drop my standards.

“I wanted the club to become a top-six side but unfortunately there were a group of players who were happy to stay as a team that played to stay up every year.

“For me that’s not exciting, I want players and coaches who want to get better. If that means sacrifices in certain areas then so be it.”

[ScarletSpiderman]

All the right noises. Come Christmas, we will hopefully see signs of things coming through too.

[Guest]

I'm not expecting miracles, but I just want to see some 'W's next to our name in the league as a short term aim. If we can get some more home wins then that might get the crowds a bit more boisterous and make RP a bit more hostile, like it was a few seasons ago. Lately the rugby has been so drab that the crowd (me included) has been rather tepid and 'fortress Rodney Parade' is somewhat of a joke name. I want it to be a place where the top teams struggle to get a win. We used to have that not too long ago because the crowd and the atmosphere used to give the players an extra few percent. I often cite the season where (I think) we won all home league games but lost all away ones! But now the home games are just as likely to be losses unfortunately.

A medium term aim for me would be to try to finish in the top 8. Say, in the next 3 years or so. The issue with this, of course, is that for us to move up the table someone else has to move down. So our immediate targets are the two Italian teams (should be doable), Edinburgh and Connacht. Obviously those two will also be looking to finish top 8 so it won't be easy. but that's where we need to start and then build on that. It's going to be a long road.

[mikey_dragon]

I did like this explanation from Jackman

Last season the Irishman annoyed a section of the Grenoble squad by banning pudding from the menu at the training ground while some felt his regime was too demanding.

“The dessert issue for me was because there were a lot of players in our squad who didn’t have acceptable body fat levels,” said Jackman.

“I did ban desserts – part of the reason was I was eating them all myself! – but I want the team I coach to be unbelievably detailed in their level of excellence and search to be professional.

“If there are people who don’t agree with that then obviously we will have conflict. I wouldn’t drop my standards.

“I wanted the club to become a top-six side but unfortunately there were a group of players who were happy to stay as a team that played to stay up every year.

“For me that’s not exciting, I want players and coaches who want to get better. If that means sacrifices in certain areas then so be it.”

That's great, he can ban desserts at Rodney Parade too.

[Kingshu]

I have said for so many years what I think Dragons fans want is more home wins to build on. This is the first year it looks like an improvement from the year before will one made.

Finishing below an Italian team and being right down with them the year before, things are at an all time low for Dragons.

But things are looking up Jackman is a great addition and is making the right noises. For the first time in a long time things are looking positive.

However for Dragons to climb the table they will need to improve above Treviso, Edinburgh and Connacht.

Edinburgh and Connacht have both got new coaches as well, and are looking to push on, meaning Dragons will have to improve more than they do to catch up and I don't think Dragons will improve that much this year.

I think this year will see an improvement in the Dragons side, but the teams around them are also improving. hopefully it will generate a much closer league with everyone capable of beating anyone at home.

In all while I see Dragons still being in the bottom 2/3, I thing they will win more than 4 games and the top team will lose more than 3 this season, and hopefully that trend continues.

[LordDowlais]

However for Dragons to climb the table they will need to improve above Treviso, Edinburgh and Connacht.

There is no reason why Dragons are not achieving exactly that anyway, on paper they have just as good players as those teams, trouble is, they have been mismanaged for far too long.

We can only live in hope that the WRU will change the ethos behind the squad from now on and going forward I hope to see performances akin to when Mike Ruddock was in charge down there.

[GavinDragon]

Realistic aims for me this season:-

Pro 12: 9th
AW: Knock out
ECC: Knock outs
BIC: Knock outs

[PhilBB]

Realistic aims for me this season:-

Pro 12: 9th
AW: Knock out
ECC: Knock outs
BIC: Knock outs

Any aims on the business side of the set up, Gavin? I see the "it wasn't a land grab" has already started with the clubhouse area up for sale so it will be interesting to see what price is achieved on the acreage for that site.

With the other three forensically inspecting what the WRU are spending on Dragons then these are interesting times.

Are you expecting more supporter income, more sponsor income and the magic break even?

[GavinDragon]

I am sorry, did I hear something? Sounded like the whining of irrelevance.....

[PhilBB]

I am sorry, did I hear something? Sounded like the whining of irrelevance.....

Hmm. A typical answer.

After labelling others as selfish today it's good that you've gone full rogue on this one. The hypocrisy is outstanding but at least you've lost the shame about being a cuckoo.

Enjoy your rugby, Gavin, whilst its still fresh to you. Good to note you couldn't answer the questions, of course

[RuggerRadge2611]

So how do dragons fans feel about these changes and what the future holds for rugby in that region of Wales?

[Cardiff Dave]

Realistic aims for me this season:-

Pro 12: 9th
AW: Knock out
ECC: Knock outs
BIC: Knock outs

Any aims on the business side of the set up, Gavin? I see the "it wasn't a land grab" has already started with the clubhouse area up for sale so it will be interesting to see what price is achieved on the acreage for that site.

With the other three forensically inspecting what the WRU are spending on Dragons then these are interesting times.

Are you expecting more supporter income, more sponsor income and the magic break even?

Maybe Gav's hoping for not quite so many elephants?

[Cardiff Dave]

I am sorry, did I hear something? Sounded like the whining of irrelevance.....

Nott announcing another "rugby decision" perhaps?

[GavinDragon]

So how do dragons fans feel about these changes and what the future holds for rugby in that region of Wales?

Optimistic.

The structure will be put in place to get the best out of the players this region has to offer.

Are we going to see marquee signings? No.

Are we going to see a massive increase in playing budget? Unless private investors come on board, and Martyn Phillips did say he was talking to a few, no.

But what we will see is a revamp off the field and investment and access to facilities that will allow the business to be run professionally - something which has been sorely lacking and transferred itself into the off field rugby environment.

Obviously, given my political leanings I am delighted with the outcome and new direction for the region, but I think anyone can agree the fudge that went before it was hampering any progress.

Already having extremely positive talks with clubs around Gwent. For games that are played on Fridays, and, like Ulster, the aim is to make Friday night, Dragons night, they will turn up to support.

Bernard Jackman says all the right things, and the same things that many have said before, but listening to him I sense an intensity and standards that were quite clearly lacking in predecessors.

The future is bright. The future is Gwent!

#suftmog

[mikey_dragon]

I am sorry, did I hear something? Sounded like the whining of irrelevance.....

Hmm. A typical answer.

After labelling others as selfish today it's good that you've gone full rogue on this one. The hypocrisy is outstanding but at least you've lost the shame about being a cuckoo.

Enjoy your rugby, Gavin, whilst its still fresh to you. Good to note you couldn't answer the questions, of course

You're a boi in you Phil.

[mikey_dragon]

So how do dragons fans feel about these changes and what the future holds for rugby in that region of Wales?

Optimistic.

The structure will be put in place to get the best out of the players this region has to offer.

Are we going to see marquee signings? No.

Are we going to see a massive increase in playing budget? Unless private investors come on board, and Martyn Phillips did say he was talking to a few, no.

But what we will see is a revamp off the field and investment and access to facilities that will allow the business to be run professionally - something which has been sorely lacking and transferred itself into the off field rugby environment.

Obviously, given my political leanings I am delighted with the outcome and new direction for the region, but I think anyone can agree the fudge that went before it was hampering any progress.

Already having extremely positive talks with clubs around Gwent. For games that are played on Fridays, and, like Ulster, the aim is to make Friday night, Dragons night, they will turn up to support.

Bernard Jackman says all the right things, and the same things that many have said before, but listening to him I sense an intensity and standards that were quite clearly lacking in predecessors.

The future is bright. The future is Gwent!

#suftmog

How would investment work Gav? Assuming we still have the same salary cap in place I can't see it making a difference. The truth is we need several established players who can come into key positions and make an immediate impact. With this salary cap that just wouldn't happen. No chance of marquee signings ever, if this is the case. I'm all for bringing through players we can develop but that takes a lot of time, and a lot of tears, but the next Ollie Griffiths is around the valleys somewhere I bet.

[GavinDragon]

We are nowhere near the salary cap. We weren't even at the salary minimum as stated by RSA.

The Dragons, I believe, will be a new Company owned by WRU. But an investor could still come in, invest money, and take part ownership.

Or they could just invest in a player I suppose, or sponsor. That way they get benefits without any liability.

[GavinDragon]

And what we need really is depth. How many matches over last two years have we lost by a few points because of a weak bench or naivety?

Henson, if he players more than 8 games, will be a good investment.

Don't underestimate how much a new pitch will help. We started last season playing good, high tempo rugby. Come December, that was all but impossible due to the state of the pitch.

[RiscaGame]

The future is bright, the future is Dragons (not Gwent) you little tinker haha

[GavinDragon]

I will continue to peddle my little agenda, don't mind me. ;-)

[PhilBB]

a) There is no salary cap
b) The WRU are budgeting for a private backer to invest close to a 7 figure sum
c) The land grab continues with the sale of the clubhouse area
d) What is happening in Newport is to be forensically examined by the other three as the RSA is clear in stating all signatories must be treated equitably.

[Guest]

Phil, serious question coming up: In your opinion do you feel it is/would be acceptable to bend or even break the RSA rules and regs to keep one of the pro sides going? Help a side out if they hit a little turbulence? And also, what do you think the stance is from the other 3? So basically, I'm asking your personal opinion but also how you feel the 4 pro sides feel on the same topic.

[marty2086]

When was the salary cap abolished by the Regions?

[Kingshu]

Can Dragons withdraw from the service agreement to work closer with the WRU?
It was a self imposed salary cap, so I suppose could be removed any time then wanted.

[PhilBB]

Phil, serious question coming up:  In your opinion do you feel it is/would be acceptable to bend or even break the RSA rules and regs to keep one of the pro sides going?  Help a side out if they hit a little turbulence?  And also, what do you think the stance is from the other 3?  So basically, I'm asking your personal opinion but also how you feel the 4 pro sides feel on the same topic.

The RSA was bent from its inception for the NGD as they never spent to their salary floor. They couldn't even produce a home ground that met the basic requirements of the league. It's been bent enough for them, for me.

And the stance of the other three is that they want a pound for every pound spent on the Drag-ons

[PhilBB]

Can Dragons withdraw from the service agreement to work closer with the WRU?
It was a self imposed salary cap, so I suppose could be removed any time then wanted.

No, they cannot withdraw.

They can impose their own salary cap, but they have to spend to the salary floor.

[marty2086]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

[PhilBB]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

[marty2086]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

Really? Where are they available?

[Kingshu]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

So there used to be a salary cap, are you able to provide a link that says this has been removed by the regions, as I cannot find proof of this online.

[marty2086]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

So there used to be a salary cap, are you able to provide a link that says this has been removed by the regions, as I cannot find proof of this online.

Give him a chance to write a blog saying it

[PhilBB]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

Really? Where are they available?

At Companies House.

[PhilBB]

So there used to be a salary cap, are you able to provide a link that says this has been removed by the regions, as I cannot find proof of this online.

Pass. I haven't looked for one. But we've had 2 AGMs since the cap went.

In 15-16, the Scarlets total wage bill was £7,015,866

[PhilBB]

Give him a chance to write a blog saying it

Pups, man up to your previous errors and try to wipe the slate clean. This silly act does you no favours.

[PhilBB]

So there used to be a salary cap, are you able to provide a link that says this has been removed by the regions, as I cannot find proof of this online.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/794814243451371521

[marty2086]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

Really? Where are they available?

At Companies House.

So the salary cap covers all staff?

[PhilBB]

I'm confused by this claim of no salary cap

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-rugby-regions-agree-10400451

Why are you? That's an 18 month old article. The figures spent in total are publicly available. There's no audit function beyond the minimum salary floor to be met, something the NGD never did.

It'll be interesting to see how the Drag-ons manage to, whilst not losing any money.

Really? Where are they available?

At Companies House.

So the salary cap covers all staff?

Nope. There is no salary cap.

[Kingshu]

PhilBB I think your the only Welsh poster who believes there isn't a self imposed salary cap still.
Doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things anyway, things are certainly looking more positive for the Dragons since the WRU takeover.

[GavinDragon]

Which is what this thread is all about. Away with you naysayers!

[Guest]

Yeah, another thread ruined by people from other clubs. Do one, you mongrels!

[marty2086]

Yeah, another thread ruined by people from other clubs. Do one, you mongrels!

Not very nice

Some people needed their BS pointed out, talking to a brick wall comes to mind though

Do hope Dragons can grow from the changes, Connacht and Glasgow showed what you can do with god coaching and without the need for signing marquee players

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