Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Too early?!  Never mind.

So, big changes are afoot at Dave Parade.  There's been loads of arguments about the best way forward, the pros and cons of regional v club rugby, and I'm sure there'll be many more to come.  But what's done is done and, for now, we have a pro team at Dave Parade to support next year.  A few weeks ago even that was in jeopardy.  So moving forward...

Ownership:
So the WRU has taken over the reigns.  I'll add updates here as and when we know them, but the formal split from Newport RFC should mean 'cleaner' or more straightforward to understand revenue streams.  

Pitch:
A new one is being laid as we speak.  This original pitch has been part and parcel of the problems at RP for a number of years.  A BBC report showed it to be up there as the most used pitch pro pitch in the UK.  Something had to be done.  A fully synthetic pitch was mooted and preferred by some, a al Blues, Saracens, Glasgow, et al.  However, FA rules state that football clubs cannot play on these surfaces (probably since the AstroTurf days of Luton Town, etc.).  So it looks like a compromise has been agreed with a 4g semi-synthetic pitch, like those used by many football clubs, Swansea City/Ospreys, Millennium Stadium, Aviva Stadium, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Cardiff City stadium, etc.  A weave of synthetic fibres and real grass meaning it's easier to maintain, less prone to weather damage, but still sort of like the real thing.  This will be a real move forward and should improve the product on the field.  A bit.

Personnel:
New coach - Huw Jackman.  Comes with a good reputation for hard work and attacking rugby.  Good stuff.
Gavin Henson - I'm happy with this.  Despite his knockers, so to speak, he is still a classy club player and performed well in the English Prem with Bristol, when not injured.  Which is the crux of the issue.  Hopefully we can keep him fit for an extended run of games.
Zane Kirchner - On paper a quality player but as with a lot of good players, when they are in the twighlight of their careers and join a 'lesser' club more often than not they do not perform as expected.  Let's hope he is an exception to the rule.  Did Jackman and Kirchner play together at Leinster?


Transfers In:

Bernard 'No Pudding' Jackman - coach
Gavin Henson
Zane Kirchner

Transfers Out:
Shaun Knight
Nick Crosswell
Tom Prydie
Geraint Rhys Jones
Darren Harris
Craig Mitchell


New Badge:

[Stone Motif]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Plus, if they're any good they will be plucked from your squad with minimal recompense for much of the season to do Crossfit.

[marty2086]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

It can be entertaining watching his unbalanced logic unfold

Yet you have never been able to score one point against it or show where it's unbalanced. Funny that. All whilst you couldn't even add up to 23.

In your mind maybe not, to everyone else that's a different story

[marty2086]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

[Guest]

A good article and interview with Ed Jackson here, recovering slowly from breaking his neck and damaging his spine in a swimming pool dive. While still very disabled he's regaining some function. A very long road to go. He'll never play pro rugby again and may not even walk properly. But very lucky that it's not worse. Here's hoping to a full if not miraculous recovery:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40420550

[Stone Motif]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

It can be entertaining watching his unbalanced logic unfold

Yet you have never been able to score one point against it or show where it's unbalanced. Funny that. All whilst you couldn't even add up to 23.

In your mind maybe not, to everyone else that's a different story

Hello McFly...Phil's pretty much owned you in every exchange. You're embarrassing yourself now.

[Stone Motif]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Entirely different to the organisation having the threat of being thrown on the scrap heap in three years time

[Stone Motif]

A good article and interview with Ed Jackson here, recovering slowly from breaking his neck and damaging his spine in a swimming pool dive. While still very disabled he's regaining some function. A very long road to go. He'll never play pro rugby again and may not even walk properly. But very lucky that it's not worse. Here's hoping to a full if not miraculous recovery:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40420550

He's bloody lucky. Best wishes Ed

[marty2086]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

It can be entertaining watching his unbalanced logic unfold

Yet you have never been able to score one point against it or show where it's unbalanced. Funny that. All whilst you couldn't even add up to 23.

In your mind maybe not, to everyone else that's a different story

Hello McFly...Phil's pretty much owned you in every exchange. You're embarrassing yourself now.

Really? I forgot the salary cap is gone because someone told him so me being owned

[marty2086]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Entirely different to the organisation having the threat of being thrown on the scrap heap in three years time

So someone with a two year contract has to worry about 3 years time?

[Guest]

So Marty, what's your hopes for the Dragons' 17/18 season?

[marty2086]

So Marty, what's your hopes for the Dragons' 17/18 season?

More home wins and the Dragons begin to roar

[Guest]

So Marty, what's your hopes for the Dragons' 17/18 season?

More home wins and the Dragons begin to roar

How we do that is the big question. Doesn't look like we'll get any additional funding for players, although I'm hopeful that we can at least spend to the minimum for once. We've lost a few players but only replaced them with Henson and Kirchner. Hopefully space for a few more additions before the start of the season. Not much time left though.

[Stone Motif]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Entirely different to the organisation having the threat of being thrown on the scrap heap in three years time

So someone with a two year contract has to worry about 3 years time?

What's the point in signing for a team that will be dead in three years?

[Stone Motif]

So Marty, what's your hopes for the Dragons' 17/18 season?

More home wins and the Dragons begin to roar

How we do that is the big question.  Doesn't look like we'll get any additional funding for players, although I'm hopeful that we can at least spend to the minimum for once.  We've lost a few players but only replaced them with Henson and Kirchner.  Hopefully space for a few more additions before the start of the season.  Not much time left though.

Some pro standard strength and conditioning and nutrition will help. And I'm not talking about Crossfit Cement either.

[marty2086]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Entirely different to the organisation having the threat of being thrown on the scrap heap in three years time

So someone with a two year contract has to worry about 3 years time?

What's the point in signing for a team that will be dead in three years?

The same is true of all of the regions these days, the WRU are investing in RP and want and need the Dragons to stay a float so will fight to keep it going for as long as they can.

The Italians were able to recruit in the face of uncertainty but as I said most players have little guaranteed beyond two years anyway

[marty2086]

So Marty, what's your hopes for the Dragons' 17/18 season?

More home wins and the Dragons begin to roar

How we do that is the big question.  Doesn't look like we'll get any additional funding for players, although I'm hopeful that we can at least spend to the minimum for once.  We've lost a few players but only replaced them with Henson and Kirchner.  Hopefully space for a few more additions before the start of the season.  Not much time left though.

I think they could be important short term signings, especially if they can keep Henson fit. Some star power to draw in casual fans or those on the fence about attending the odd game here or there.

They'll also help some of the young players and maybe compensate for the lack of quality in depth that has hurt the team, with their experience you may close out games a bit better.

[Stone Motif]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Entirely different to the organisation having the threat of being thrown on the scrap heap in three years time

So someone with a two year contract has to worry about 3 years time?

What's the point in signing for a team that will be dead in three years?

The same is true of all of the regions these days, the WRU are investing in RP and want and need the Dragons to stay a float so will fight to keep it going for as long as they can.

The Italians were able to recruit in the face of uncertainty but as I said most players have little guaranteed beyond two years anyway

That's horsesh1t, McFly. The situation with the Dragons is unique and far more precarious in that they have no financial support from private business. The WRU's obligation only lasts until their current contractual obligations. The day after the Dragons can be shut down and he ground flogged if hey so desire. That's not the case with the other three, this isn't Ireland FFS.

[marty2086]

Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

[Guest]

Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

[PhilBB]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

It can be entertaining watching his unbalanced logic unfold

Yet you have never been able to score one point against it or show where it's unbalanced. Funny that. All whilst you couldn't even add up to 23.

In your mind maybe not, to everyone else that's a different story

You comfort yourself with that, Champ. To many more people than you will ever realise, you epitomise a large element of the stupidity and ignorance on this board. You're quite the man.

[PhilBB]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Erm, Dowlais mentioned 'long term'. That's the context, not your 2 year offering. See? He wrote it.

And a company that is no longer trading doesn't have to fulfil a contract, because it can't. It's bust.

So well done on two really particularly stupid things to write.

[PhilBB]

Really? I forgot the salary cap is gone because someone told him so me being owned

Simon Thomas confirmed it. In writing. So not just 'because someone told' me.

There's yet another example of you being owned. When will you learn?

[PhilBB]

The same is true of all of the regions these days, the WRU are investing in RP and want and need the Dragons to stay a float so will fight to keep it going for as long as they can.

The Italians were able to recruit in the face of uncertainty but as I said most players have little guaranteed beyond two years anyway

They only need the Dragons to stay afloat until 2020 or until they can get RGC sorted. You realise this, right?

[PhilBB]

Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They aren't investing money into the Dragons. They are investing money into a £6m+ asset they bought for less than half the price and has a tenant for at least the next 5 years.

What on earth does this mean: "Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions"?

[PhilBB]

https://cf10rugbytrust.org/blog/level-playing-field

That should be an interesting read to Dragons fans and some interlopers.

[marty2086]

Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

If I'm not mistaken there isn't a board or Chief Exec in place yet?

It wouldn't be wise to make big commitments on that front if you haven't a board, my guess is once they are in place there'll be a review and then a plan put in place for improving the business on all fronts.

It probably means that this season will have to be a write off in terms of getting the proper foundations across the club. Hopefully it doesn't take too long getting a board in otherwise everything else will drag on.

[marty2086]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Erm, Dowlais mentioned 'long term'. That's the context, not your 2 year offering. See? He wrote it.

And a company that is no longer trading doesn't have to fulfil a contract, because it can't. It's bust.

So well done on two really particularly stupid things to write.

Not really because a company isn't 'bust' because you say it is, it has to go bankrupt or into liquidation and has to meet legal criteria to do so. Stupid me for knowing that

[marty2086]

Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They aren't investing money into the Dragons. They are investing money into a £6m+ asset they bought for less than half the price and has a tenant for at least the next 5 years.

What on earth does this mean: "Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions"?

They now have a fiduciary duty to the club rather than a contractual commitment

[PhilBB]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Erm, Dowlais mentioned 'long term'. That's the context, not your 2 year offering. See? He wrote it.

And a company that is no longer trading doesn't have to fulfil a contract, because it can't. It's bust.

So well done on two really particularly stupid things to write.

Not really because a company isn't 'bust' because you say it is, it has to go bankrupt or into liquidation and has to meet legal criteria to do so. Stupid me for knowing that

Good God. Have you no sense of context at all? Do you think rugby businesses that are not losing money just randomly shut?

[PhilBB]

They now have a fiduciary duty to the club rather than a contractual commitment

No. They have both.

FFS.

[marty2086]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

Well considering most players only ever get 2 year contracts most futures aren't guaranteed long term, not to mention if Dragons offered them a contract the Dragons would have to fulfil that contract, though I suppose I should clarify Im excluding things like retirement for the pedants out there and the Dragons would have to pay financial compensation if they released them

Erm, Dowlais mentioned 'long term'. That's the context, not your 2 year offering. See? He wrote it.

And a company that is no longer trading doesn't have to fulfil a contract, because it can't. It's bust.

So well done on two really particularly stupid things to write.

Not really because a company isn't 'bust' because you say it is, it has to go bankrupt or into liquidation and has to meet legal criteria to do so. Stupid me for knowing that

Good God. Have you no sense of context at all? Do you think rugby businesses that are not losing money just randomly shut?

Whats that got to do with anything?

[marty2086]

They now have a fiduciary duty to the club rather than a contractual commitment

No. They have both.

FFS.

Sorry I forgot to include the just before 'a contractual commitment', forgot who I was dealing with

[PhilBB]

Whats that got to do with anything?

You clearly don't understand the context here.

The WRU is to set up a separate company to run the Dragons. That company can receive no more from the RSA than is paid to the other three. If that company loses money, it will go bust as the sole shareholder won't capitalise it further to cover losses.

That's the context.

The nuDragons cease to exist. Bust. Dead as a parrot. Dead as the old Gwent Dragons were in November 2003.

[PhilBB]

They now have a fiduciary duty to the club rather than a contractual commitment

No. They have both.

FFS.

Sorry I forgot to include the just before 'a contractual commitment', forgot who I was dealing with

You mean you forgot to include the word that changed the entire context of your previous post? Yeah, words are kind of key.

[marty2086]

They now have a fiduciary duty to the club rather than a contractual commitment

No. They have both.

FFS.

Sorry I forgot to include the just before 'a contractual commitment', forgot who I was dealing with

You mean you forgot to include the word that changed the entire context of your previous post? Yeah, words are kind of key.

Yip changes the context if you also ignore what I previously said which you like to do to try to make yourself seem intelligent, feel free to post your little witty comeback unfortunately now Ive blocked you I won't see it

[Luckless Pedestrian]

.

[PhilBB]

I've run away now because I'm a complete coward but at least I've finally had the required dose of self awareness to understand that I've been getting owned for months, so the best route to stop this happening is to be yellow

Bye now.

[mikey_dragon]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

[PhilBB]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Harris and Landman are now Welsh qualified, too.

[RiscaGame]

I think Meyer is as well. Also, we've lost Crosswell. I suspect we are doing nothing mind, bar hoping Blake develops this season.

[mikey_dragon]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Harris and Landman are now Welsh qualified, too.

I'd like to see more recruitment done but I'm not sure it will be happening. Jackman will have his hands tied with such a thin squad.

[PhilBB]

There must be some more arrivals because the loss of Kingsley jnr, Prydie, Crosswell, Jackson, Mitchell and co can't be matched just by Kirchner and Henson and Otten.

And that's before you consider the salary floor.

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah it was a thin squad before this season's departures, surely they have something in mind. Umm is that Scott Otten?

[Guest]

There must be some more arrivals because the loss of Kingsley jnr, Prydie, Crosswell, Jackson, Mitchell and co can't be matched just by Kirchner and Henson and Otten.

And that's before you consider the salary floor.

Any idea why we haven't hit the salary floor? My theory was that the £x million that we get from the WRU (as do all regions) - perhaps some of that was being used to service loan debt; pay for the constant pitch work every summer; being directed somewhat into funding costs associated with Newport RFC, etc. I struggled to make this out from the financial reports. My hope is that with the formal separation from Newport RFC and fewer pitch costs more of the money can be spent on what its meant to be spent on.

[Stone Motif]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Don't think there's much of a coincidence to a former Pooler boi returning to his Gwent roots recently

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Morgan Allen?

It's still a shame Jack Condy slipped through the net.

[Stone Motif]

Morgan Allen?

It's still a shame Jack Condy slipped through the net.

Yeah. Not sure either would have developed with us mind

[mikey_dragon]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Don't think there's much of a coincidence to a former Pooler boi returning to his Gwent roots recently

We've already got Henson, it would be foolish to take on another player with that injury track record.

[RiscaGame]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Don't think there's much of a coincidence to a former Pooler boi returning to his Gwent roots recently

Agreed, although I thought similar when Ieuan Jones did.

[Stone Motif]

With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Don't think there's much of a coincidence to a former Pooler boi returning to his Gwent roots recently

Agreed, although I thought similar when Ieuan Jones did.

Another potential gem lost

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