NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
24 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on [Sky Sports HD]

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

38 Played 38
29 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 29
634 Points 345

B. Recent Form

9 July 2005
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 19 to New Zealand

2 July 2005
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 13 to New Zealand

26 June 1993
Athletic Park, Wellington
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983
Carisbrook, Dunedin
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND

01. Joe Moody (25)
02. Codie Taylor (16)
03. Owen Franks (91)
04. Brodie Retallick (61)
05. Samuel Whitelock (85)
06. Jerome Kaino (78)
07. Sam Cane (41)
08. Kieran Read (97)

09. Aaron Smith (59)
10. Beauden Barrett (50)
11. Rieko Ioane (2)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (34)
13. Ryan Crotty (26)
14. Israel Dagg (62)
15. Ben Smith (61)

16. Nathan Harris (5)
17. Wyatt Crockett (59)
18. Charlie Faumuina (47)
19. Scott Barrett (5)
20. Ardie Savea (13)
21. TJ Perenara (30)
22. Aaron Cruden (47) / Lima Sopoaga (7)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (10)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  

15. Liam Williams – Scarlets, Wales, #833
14. Anthony Watson – Bath Rugby, England, #816
13. Jonathan Davies – Scarlets, Wales, #778
12. Ben Te’o – Worcester Warriors, England, #815
11. Elliot Daly – Wasps, England, #822
10. Owen Farrell – Saracens, England, #780
09. Conor Murray – Munster, Ireland, #790

01. Mako Vunipola – Saracens, England, #787
02. Jamie George – Saracens, England, #819
03. Tadhg Furlong – Leinster, Ireland, #818
04. Alun Wyn Jones – Ospreys, Wales, #761
05. George Kruis – Saracens, England, #817
06. Peter O’Mahony (capt) – Munster, Ireland, #832
07. Sean O’Brien – Leinster, Ireland, #796
08. Taulupe Faletau – Bath Rugby, Wales, #779

16. Ken Owens – Scarlets, Wales, #829
17. Jack McGrath – Leinster, Ireland, #827
18. Kyle Sinckler – Harlequins, England, #814
19. Maro Itoje – Saracens, England, #825
20. Sam Warburton – Cardiff Blues, Wales, #800
21. Rhys Webb – Ospreys, Wales, #820
22. Johnny Sexton – Leinster, Ireland, #791
23. Leigh Halfpenny – Toulon, Wales, #775

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hooker is a problem. George looks a shadow of the player he is coming from the bench, he's not a good starter at this level as we thought.

Best and Owens can't hit a barn door......did Gatland miss a trick and not bring Hartley?

No, Hartley has looked very sluggish for 6-8 months now.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:From our forwards we need break down and gain line dominance first rather than attacking lines.  

If you have players taking you 10/15 yards up the field it negates those problems to an extent

I don't think George is a starter and didn't coming in and think we are seeing that, he is better utilised against tiring legs where spaces open up and using him to get you down the field and creating a more attacking platform when we will likely need it

I appreciate again there are some who want to absolve all blame from best. It's a case mainly.for Itoje and best though. Lifters much less so. For me despite wanting some balance to the comments on one man scrums and this lineout among others; best has been the best hooker on tour.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I appreciate again there are some who want to absolve all blame from best. It's a case mainly.for Itoje and best though. Lifters much less so. For me despite wanting some balance to the comments  on one man scrums and this lineout among others; best has been the best hooker on tour.

No absolving 7.5, I thought Owens was the man to start coming in with George as the bench option but the lineout is a toss up between them all at the minute. I think the scrum has underperformed so the need for Best to strengthen it especially up against Taylor, the same for the backrow and Best offers a big help there. I do think the blame lies with Marler and especially Sincklair and he's a natural leader. Its just a shame Poite is reffing the final test rather than 2nd because the two of them has a great relationship

No 7&1/2 wrote:I appreciate again there are some who want to absolve all blame from best. It's a case mainly.for Itoje and best though. Lifters much less so. For me despite wanting some balance to the comments  on one man scrums and this lineout among others; best has been the best hooker on tour.

I think the criticism of Best's throws are fine however he has easily been the best hooker on tour. He is t least partially to blame. Cant understand though how George is selected over him. I can see the ABs dominating the Lions pack again.

You can definitely make a case for best to start; obviously not gatland cup of tea though. I tend to doubt any arguments saying that george isn't strong in the scrum or that he offers nothing in the loose though. You can be well within your rights to say that as he's got great footwork and speed for a big guy he may be better coming off the bench as owens in particular is a hard carrier but then we are starting vunipola for that reason. If we want to improve the scrum the argument should be less about george starting and more mako.

Makos a tough one, theres times hes great in the scrum and other times he seems like he can't be bothered trying

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I appreciate again there are some who want to absolve all blame from best. It's a case mainly.for Itoje and best though. Lifters much less so. For me despite wanting some balance to the comments  on one man scrums and this lineout among others; best has been the best hooker on tour.

I think the criticism of Best's throws are fine however he has easily been the best hooker on tour. He is t least partially to blame. Cant understand though how George is selected over him. I can see the ABs dominating the Lions pack again.

I don't see masses of difference between the 3 hookers (hence why the debate is dragging on, everyone's blinkers put their own man ahead), and the 2 NZ ones. Sadly none of them are Dane Coles

George had the 2nd highest tackle count with 17.

Didn't lose a lineout did he?

More reliable than both Best and Owens at lineout time.

Take out George and potentially the lineout will wobble (it already did.... )

No 7&1/2 wrote:You can definitely make a case for best to start; obviously not gatland cup of tea though. I tend to doubt any arguments saying that george isn't strong in the scrum or that he offers nothing in the loose though. You can be well within your rights to say that as he's got great footwork and speed for a big guy he may be better coming off the bench as owens in particular is a hard carrier but then we are starting vunipola for that reason. If we want to improve the scrum the argument should be less about george starting and more mako.

He is no better or worse than Best in the scrum, the issue is the breakdown and gain line Best offers a lot more. Best is also very good with ball in hand, probably better.

I think george is outstanding ball in hand to be honest but tends not to be needed.in the close quarter carries. Breakdown yes best is the best on tour. It wouldn't help with peyper as he let's players get away with protecting the ball by going off their feet more than some other refs. The breakdown will be better for us in games 2 and 3 even if the same.players are picked. No doubt Warburton will.come.in not affect the game a great deal, Breakdown will be cleaner anyway and he'll get plaudits...

George - better carrying, lineout
Best - better at breakdown

I'd rate their scrum and tackling at a similar level. I'd also say Best was a stronger starter.

Personally, I'd have Hartley starting ahead of both of them. Strong basics and leadetship at a time we don't seem to have any.

Yip, Hartley would have been useful yesterday when it kicked off instead of letting the Canes player know not to be a prat he would have been a bigger prat and bit, kicked, punched or headbutted him

Best is just too passive. It's almost like he's apologising to the ref and the NZ players for being on the same pitch.

He sums up Ulster of the season just gone.

At least Hartley would have gone down swinging.

That really hurt him in Chicago, also funny that most Ulster fans said we could have done with more of his leadership last season as there are so few in the team

Its always great to antagonise a referee and get on the wrong side of them

I would have selected Hartley over Best for this tour. From what I can gather from the England threads the fans believe Hartley won't be in the starting jersey come next season, and this is based on his unspectacular performances against Argentina...

marty2086 wrote:That really hurt him in Chicago, also funny that most Ulster fans said we could have done with more of his leadership last season as there are so few in the team

Its always great to antagonise a referee and get on the wrong side of them

I don't think Ulster fans are very good judges though

Hartley's behaviour and captaincy for England has been impeccable. 19/20 is a pretty good record. He's really good at chatting with refs. Firm but fair, unlike Mr meek and mild.

Didn't care about the tour before and don't care about it anymore now.

Ive seen about two minutes play of the whole tour.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Didn't care about the tour before and don't care about it anymore now.

Ive seen about two minutes play of the whole tour.

England's tour of Argentina was where it was at. Two fantastic games.

It was like the opposite of Gatlandball. Players enjoying themselves and getting the results

OK, so lets make a decision then.

Who get thrown on the scrapheap with all the other Welsh players on this tour ?

Best or George ?

LordDowlais wrote:OK, so lets make a decision then.

Who get thrown on the scrapheap with all the other Welsh players on this tour ?

Best or George ?

George Best?

LordDowlais wrote:OK, so lets make a decision then.

Who get thrown on the scrapheap with all the other Welsh players on this tour ?

Best or George ?

Ken Owens

Keep both George and Best

Cyril wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:OK, so lets make a decision then.

Who get thrown on the scrapheap with all the other Welsh players on this tour ?

Best or George ?

George Best?

To coin an old song "Nice one Cyril".

Cyril wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Didn't care about the tour before and don't care about it anymore now.

Ive seen about two minutes play of the whole tour.

England's tour of Argentina was where it was at. Two fantastic games.

It was like the opposite of Gatlandball. Players enjoying themselves and getting the results

I have been mostly focused on England yes...however I just cant get motivated for this Lions tour at all. I had no interest before the start of it, couldn't care who was picked and don't care now.

Ive always been interested in the past so not sure why this time I so uninterested.

Cyril wrote:He's really good at chatting with refs. Firm but fair, unlike Mr meek and mild.

"Wayne Barnes you're a f'ing cheat"

Scottrf wrote:

Cyril wrote:He's really good at chatting with refs. Firm but fair, unlike Mr meek and mild.

"Wayne Barnes you're a f'ing cheat"

haha yeah refs love Hartley.

Cyril wrote:
At least Hartley would have gone down swinging.

Swinging, gouging and biting you mean.

rodders wrote:

Cyril wrote:
At least Hartley would have gone down swinging.

Swinging, gouging and biting you mean.

If you can't beat them...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Didn't care about the tour before and don't care about it anymore now.

Ive seen about two minutes play of the whole tour.

England's tour of Argentina was where it was at. Two fantastic games.

It was like the opposite of Gatlandball. Players enjoying themselves and getting the results

I have been mostly focused on England yes...however I just cant get motivated for this Lions tour at all. I had no interest before the start of it, couldn't care who was picked and don't care now.

Ive always been interested in the past so not sure why this time I so uninterested.

It is a bit over hyped and marketed for me. The Landrover and Skysports heavy media involvement drains the life out of it a bit.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/93907183/official-all-blacks-birth-certificates-launched

A bit much?

Does this mean that NZRU have a monopoly on all NZ kids now?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/93907183/official-all-blacks-birth-certificates-launched

A bit much?

Should give them to the ABs, or maybe not since so many where born elsewhere

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Didn't care about the tour before and don't care about it anymore now.

Ive seen about two minutes play of the whole tour.

England's tour of Argentina was where it was at. Two fantastic games.

It was like the opposite of Gatlandball. Players enjoying themselves and getting the results

I have been mostly focused on England yes...however I just cant get motivated for this Lions tour at all. I had no interest before the start of it, couldn't care who was picked and don't care now.

Ive always been interested in the past so not sure why this time I so uninterested.

It is a bit over hyped and marketed for me. The Landrover and Skysports heavy media involvement drains the life out of it a bit.

20 years to the day since the Lions won the series in SA. It's sad the way the game has gone.

Its a bit like the Heineken cup. It hasn't been the same since the PRL and BT got their grubby hands on it and shat all over it.

God damn better coverage.

No 7&1/2 wrote:God damn better coverage.

BT, Sky sports, same shoite.

Nah BT s a level up. Both have improved sports coverage though to be fair.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah BT s a level up. Both have improved sports coverage though to be fair.

They've both destroyed it, spending more on it but making it less accessible isn't improvement.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a bit like the Heineken cup. It hasn't been the same since the PRL and BT got their grubby hands on it and shat all over it.

You mean since Irish teams stopped winning it

The coverage is great. What don't you like about it?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a bit like the Heineken cup. It hasn't been the same since the PRL and BT got their grubby hands on it and shat all over it.

They shat on their hands?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/93907183/official-all-blacks-birth-certificates-launched

A bit much?

Does this mean that NZRU have a monopoly on all NZ kids now?

Yep. New World Rugby directive. We plan on rolling it out to the rest of the Pacific soon


More seriously, I don't know how many people will pay extra for a pretty picture on a birth certificate. Whether it's an AB one or one of the other options. But I suppose if it helps fund the DIA ...

rodders wrote:

Cyril wrote:
At least Hartley would have gone down swinging.

Swinging, gouging and biting you mean.

That only tends to happen against Irish sides (and you know how annoying they are).

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a bit like the Heineken cup. It hasn't been the same since the PRL and BT got their grubby hands on it and shat all over it.

You mean since Irish teams stopped winning it

The Irish teams will be fine, there were two in the semis this year and Leinster will win it in the next two years. Booting the Italians out and decreasing their funding stinks of greed IMO. The competition was much better before.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a bit like the Heineken cup. It hasn't been the same since the PRL and BT got their grubby hands on it and shat all over it.

You mean since Irish teams stopped winning it

The Irish teams will be fine, there were two in the semis this year and Leinster will win it in the next two years. Booting the Italians out and decreasing their funding stinks of greed IMO. The competition was much better before.

Last time I checked there was still an Italian team, and they were still rubbish.

Retaining them is doing more to damage the competition than getting rid of the would.

Let noone accuse the Irish of arrogance, I got panned for that for picking up a similar remark regarding an all Ireland Pro12 final....

Scottrf wrote:

Cyril wrote:He's really good at chatting with refs. Firm but fair, unlike Mr meek and mild.

"Wayne Barnes you're a f'ing cheat"

It seems the Irish and Dylan Hartley are finally reading from the same hymn sheet.

Yeah, of the things that are wrong with the current European Cup, I think the loss of the second Italian team would be a very long way down the list...

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You can definitely make a case for best to start; obviously not gatland cup of tea though. I tend to doubt any arguments saying that george isn't strong in the scrum or that he offers nothing in the loose though. You can be well within your rights to say that as he's got great footwork and speed for a big guy he may be better coming off the bench as owens in particular is a hard carrier but then we are starting vunipola for that reason. If we want to improve the scrum the argument should be less about george starting and more mako.

He is no better or worse than Best in the scrum, the issue is the breakdown and gain line Best offers a lot more. Best is also very good with ball in hand, probably better.

George is better with the ball at his feet.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Cyril wrote:He's really good at chatting with refs. Firm but fair, unlike Mr meek and mild.

"Wayne Barnes you're a f'ing cheat"

It seems the Irish and Dylan Hartley are finally reading from the same hymn sheet.

Makes a change from reading Dylans charge sheet

Gooseberry wrote:

Last time I checked there was still an Italian team, and they were still rubbish.

Retaining them is doing more to damage the competition than getting rid of the would.

Let noone accuse the Irish of arrogance, I got panned for that for picking up a similar remark regarding an all Ireland Pro12 final....

Well it was a pretty stupid comment in all fairness.

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a bit like the Heineken cup. It hasn't been the same since the PRL and BT got their grubby hands on it and shat all over it.

You mean since Irish teams stopped winning it

The Irish teams will be fine, there were two in the semis this year and Leinster will win it in the next two years. Booting the Italians out and decreasing their funding stinks of greed IMO. The competition was much better before.

Last time I checked there was still an Italian team, and they were still rubbish.

Retaining them is doing more to damage the competition than getting rid of the would.

Let noone accuse the Irish of arrogance, I got panned for that for picking up a similar remark regarding an all Ireland Pro12 final....

Both teams now gone until they start improving Pro12 performances. 7 / 6 / 6 and Challenge Cup winner now.

http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/qualification/index.php

In terms of getting an elite competition, it's for the best. In terms of Italy's development, perhaps not, but the national team and the clubs are going nowhere at the moment even with all the opportunities they could ask for.