Rest of the World

First topic message reminder :

I figure a thread for cricket stuff from around the world that doesn't warrant a series-thread is useful

It was wonderful bowling from Abbas.  The pitch was a relatively "fair for all" one for this part of the world ; and he showed his class (admittedly against some poor Australian batting) to get such exceptional results.  
The Australian seamers weren't rubbish (though the tiredness from match one showed through , especially on being forced back into the field so quickly second time around ) but couldn't wreak the same sort of damage.
Interesting : although Australia was supposedly considering playing three pace men at one time , they actually handed a far higher proportion of the bowling work to their spinners than did Pakistan. Lyon was indeed their main threat ; but I'd say Holland has played his last Test...he was consistently ineffective. Labuschagne showed some promise with the ball ; but he will need to lift his game with the bat if he's to get many future chances. He did look OK in the last innings so he may possibly start in the home series ? Heaven knows Australia have issues picking a batting lineup to play India ...

India has gone with a weakened batting lineup......Jadeja, Dhoni and Pant being between 7&5

and have been casual in their bowling on a pitch that has little for spinners and something for seamer
New 19 year old left arm khaleel ahmed has prospect as he can hit 140kph but bowls too short and is not strong enough to sustain speed in second spell

he has to build endurance to bowl fast and full for longer

India could lose this one today

Shimron Hetmyer hammers the fastest ever ODI century by a West Indian against India. This boy is a sensational talent

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Shimron Hetmyer hammers the fastest ever ODI century by a West Indian against India. This boy is a sensational talent

I don't take anything away from him...but the guy s a slogger...who was allowed tot get away by a casual and loose India

If you think Roach is fast, the Big burly bicepy Shain Thomas is a yard faster
Built like Ngidi but faster

Virat Kohli puts on an absolute clinic as he reaches his 36th ODI century. He's fast approaching 10,000 ODI runs as well. Incredible to think he's not yet 30 years old

KP_fan wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Shimron Hetmyer hammers the fastest ever ODI century by a West Indian against India. This boy is a sensational talent

I don't take anything away from him...but the guy s a slogger...who was allowed tot get away by a casual and loose India

You realize Hetmyer was an outstanding u19 player? In fact he was the u19 world cup winning captain for West Indies. He's not really suitable for Test cricket just yet, but he's a quality ODI/T20 player

Kohli was awesome today....toyed with the bowling

India's top 3 are a class apart from the rest of world cricket in Odis. Dhawan, Sharma and Kohli have 70 centuries combined.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:India's top 3 are a class apart from the rest of world cricket in Odis. Dhawan, Sharma and Kohli have 70 centuries combined.

Kohli wins 1 in 4 games on his own
Dhawan+ Rohit together win 1 in 4 games on their own
so top 3 are winning 2 in 4 games....but the rest are barely winning 1 in 4
so India's overall record is about 3 in 4
That part in bold is India's Achilles heel

Virat Kohli cements himself as the greatest ODI of all time by obliteraing Sachin Tendulkar's record as the fastest man to 10,000 runs, in a mere 205 innings - 54 fewer than Tendulkar. Kohli went from 9,000 to 10,000 in 11 innings, incredible domination

Kohli is a freak abnormality to ODIs no less than Bradman was to tests
10,000 runs at average 60 and strike rate of nearly 100%
The enormity of his stats will dawn upon the cricketing community truly once he is gone

meanwhile WI in the game chasing 321

Hetmyer You Brute
73* 51 1 7 143.13

Hetmeyer being a lefthander If he shows more consistency he would fit in the slot of Gayle

He is another one on the long line of Big, Brute West Indian hitters....Gayle, Lloyd, Greenidge.....one in every generation

If Kohli keeps up his form, he might eventually surpass Ryan ten Doeschate as the real ODI GOAT - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/content/records/282911.html

Hetmeyers run is pretty amazing, hes really stepped up this series form a guy who who'd a few against rubbish sides to the stand out batting talent in the Windies side against the second best side in the world in their own back yard.
As for consistency ... scores of 52, 125, 30, 106, 94 are pretty Root like at the minute. I guess what you mean though is if he can sustain anything like this, it is still very early days for him. But smacking all these runs against India shows he at least has the big game attitude...and currently his stats are way better than Gayles. Windies do suddenly look like they have half a side for the world cup, but far too much dross on the edges.

Incredibly close game, real shame they couldnt pull off a win.

Looking at Jdizzles link what really stands out is Michael Bevan ... you have to go all the way down to Tendulkar to find a player whos career properly overlapped with his. for his era he was further ahead of the curve than Kholi is now.
But in terms of sheer weight of runs, and bearing in mind how long he could still keep playing, it is fair to say Kholi is way ahead of anyone and a true legend of the game....even if these Pakistanis and mr Ten Dosechete can match his average they wont play anywhere near the volume of games he has.

The century today looks very unusual, a remarkably low number of boundaries for what was a fairly brisk scoring rate. And that shows what sets him apart, he can pick up runs off almost every ball without taking undue risks. Maybe he doesnt have the power of the England top order...but he more than makes up for that in classy technique, much like Tendulkar.

JDizzle wrote:If Kohli keeps up his form, he might eventually surpass Ryan ten Doeschate as the real ODI GOAT - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/content/records/282911.html

I noticed India's current top 5 are on that all time list of highest batting averages

Gooseberry wrote:Hetmeyers run is pretty amazing, hes really stepped up this series form a guy who who'd a few against rubbish sides to the stand out batting talent in the Windies side against the second best side in the world in their own back yard.
As for consistency ... scores of 52, 125, 30, 106, 94 are pretty Root like at the minute. I guess what you mean though is if he can sustain anything like this, it is still very early days for him. But smacking all these runs against India shows he at least has the big game attitude...and currently his stats are way better than Gayles. Windies do suddenly look like they have half a side for the world cup, but far too much dross on the edges.

Incredibly close game, real shame they couldnt pull off a win.

Looking at Jdizzles link what really stands out is Michael Bevan ... you have to go all the way down to Tendulkar to find a player whos career properly overlapped with his. for his era he was further ahead of the curve than Kholi is now.
But in terms of sheer weight of runs, and bearing in mind how long he could still keep playing, it is fair to say Kholi is way ahead of anyone and a true legend of the game....even if these Pakistanis and mr Ten Dosechete can match his average they wont play anywhere near the volume of games he has.

The century today looks very unusual, a remarkably low number of boundaries for what was a fairly brisk scoring rate. And that shows what sets him apart, he can pick up runs off almost every ball without taking undue risks. Maybe he doesnt have the power of the England top order...but he more than makes up for that in classy technique, much like Tendulkar.

when you look at the high averages 2 additional factors should be considered in my view
1) batting position:
Likes of Bevan, Dhoni and Hussey bear in mind they all batted at nos 5 thru 7 in finisher's roles....most of their careers
And have the benefit of many not-outs....on the back of 20s and 30s to finish off an inning...
While finishing an inning and earning a n.o is a skill........batting in the top 3 and finishing with a high average is more difficult in my view

another way of looking at this......  how many runs per ODI game do these high averaging guys get?
while Kohli might be closer to 50, the likes of Bevan, Dhoni & Hissey more in the 25-30 range I would guess

2) Era:
The pitches, rules, and overall evolution of the skills in Limited over games have all evolved in batsman's favor as decades have progressed
Hence I would look very closely and with great reverence the averages of Zaheer Abbas, Glen Turner.....and Viv Richards
Especially Richards playing his cricket in 1970s and 80s..... 7,000 runs  averaging 47 then at SR of 90%

Kohli went from 9,000 to 10,000 runs in 11 innings. 11! What a freak

That's a cracking link from JD. I would never have guessed that Ryan ten Doeschate was anywhere near the top of those averages!

Mind you, he's a canny operator and very streetwise. I saw him guide Essex to a 1 wicket win over Surrey in the CC match at the Oval last month. Morkel had been on fire and causing all sorts of problems to the batting side as they struggled to get over the finishing line but had bowled a longer spell than usual and clearly needed the rapidly approaching tea interval for a breather. Realising this, ten Do put his foot on the gas and went after Morkel and Dernbach at the other end. This meant a win - for whichever side - was imminent and so the umpires, correctly but still to Surrey's indignation, delayed the break for 30 minutes. That deprived Morkel any rest and helped Essex to get the win before the new time for tea. Impressive and clever play.

Very valid points as well from KP_f about Batting Position (I would guess that ten Do would often have been in the 5-7 range too and note that he chalked up a few not outs as well) and Era. Viv Richards would always be the first batsman's name in my all time ODI team - as KP_f suggests, you have to compare him against the best of his time to appreciate his dominance and superiority.

Although the cricinfo list requires a minimum of 20 appearances, the greatest respect probably belongs to those with not only a high average but who earned it over a sizeable number of games (plus also KP-f's points). Keith Fletcher's average of (almost) 40 was surprisingly high to me although I note he only had 22 knocks. Personally, I very much doubt if it would have stayed so high if he had batted in 350 ODIs like Inzi who is just below him in the averages.

MS Dhoni has been dropped from the Indian T20 side, the first time in his career he's been dropped for India in any format

I'd echo thoughts of others here that IVA would be the first name on my all time ODI side. Followed closely by compatriot Joel Garner - the best yorker I've ever seen.

A strike rate of 90 in the era Richards played, against the attacks he faced is just unbelievable. With modern equipment on flat tracks he would be quite something to see.

I was unaware that Zaheer Abbas had such outstanding ODI stats as well for his era. I knew of his first class exploits from his hugely influential time with Gloucestershire and his elegant test innings are well known. I didn't realise his ODI stats stood that highly though. A brilliant batsman to watch when in full flow.

king_carlos wrote:I'd echo thoughts of others here that IVA would be the first name on my all time ODI side. Followed closely by compatriot Joel Garner - the best yorker I've ever seen.

A strike rate of 90 in the era Richards played, against the attacks he faced is just unbelievable. With modern equipment on flat tracks he would be quite something to see.

I was unaware that Zaheer Abbas had such outstanding ODI stats as well for his era. I knew of his first class exploits from his hugely influential time with Gloucestershire and his elegant test innings are well known. I didn't realise his ODI stats stood that highly though. A brilliant batsman to watch when in full flow.

Hi Carlos,

Richards, Garner - agree with every word there.

I also share your surprise about Zaheer's ODI stats. Certainly influential with Gloucs and some truly elegast test innings. The first test I ever went to was England v Pakistan at Edgbaston in 1971 when he compiled 274.

Zaheer Abbas' ODI record can be taken with a grain of salt to be brutally honest. His average of 47 looks good but in reality it's a misleading statistic like Ryan ten Doescate's average. Abbas feasted against India in the early days of limited overs cricket. India didn't fancy ODI cricket in the early days. Kapil aside their bowling was pretty mediocre. Abbas dipped bread against that era's minnows Sri Lanka as well. Abbas decent player but no way near 20 in limited overs history

Yet more history for Virat Kohli as he becomes first Indian to score three consecutive ODI centuries, 38th overall and Kohli steaming towards Tendulkar's once thought of unbreakable 49 ODI centuries. Kohli also equals Jacques Kallis' 62 international centuries, just 38 behind Tendulkar...

guildfordbat wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I'd echo thoughts of others here that IVA would be the first name on my all time ODI side. Followed closely by compatriot Joel Garner - the best yorker I've ever seen.

A strike rate of 90 in the era Richards played, against the attacks he faced is just unbelievable. With modern equipment on flat tracks he would be quite something to see.

I was unaware that Zaheer Abbas had such outstanding ODI stats as well for his era. I knew of his first class exploits from his hugely influential time with Gloucestershire and his elegant test innings are well known. I didn't realise his ODI stats stood that highly though. A brilliant batsman to watch when in full flow.

Hi Carlos,

Richards, Garner - agree with every word there.

I also share your surprise about Zaheer's ODI stats. Certainly influential with Gloucs and some truly elegast test innings. The first test I ever went to was England v Pakistan at Edgbaston in 1971 when he compiled 274.

Zaheer abbas was a delightful batsman to watch...have faint memories of having seen a bit of him in early 80s when i was beginning to watch cricket...and live B&W cricket on grainy TV sets beginning to be beamed in Indian homes
The closest I can put him to was Azharuddin...both powered by their wrist-works

Good Old days when India used to travel to & play in pak

WI put one through yesterday and so Ind has won only one out of 3 ODIs in this series and that's inpsite of 3 consecutive 100s from Kohli two of which were daddy 100s by ODI standards i. e 140 and 157*

That would imply minus kohli or even half of Kohli, India is easily beatable by even WI
where are India's problems?

1) same as in Eng...Ind does not have adequate batting in middle & lower middle order
whihc is because of Kohli's lopsided selections
after the top-3 there is none
Rayadu is probably OK
Dhoni is past expiry date
and India is missing Pandya.....who for ODIs is a pretty accomplished 7th batsman

2) Ind has left out a proper ODI batsman in Jadhav...who gives them 6 overs of useful spin also

3) Ind should bring in Jadhav for a seamer and replace Dhoni with another batsman like Pandey

4) Kohli fiddles with batting composition too muhc as he did in Eng and in SA before that

If it's not Kohli breaking records it's Rohit, the Indian opener scored his seventh 150+ score in ODIs today coupled with Rayudu smashing his third ODI century as the Indian piled up 377.

India seemingly has solved it's No. 4 problem for atleast couple of years now in Rayadu

Now move Jadhav of 5, Pant at 6 and Pandya at 7 when fit
No room for dhoni who is past expiry date

Australia rather predictably demolished in Perth by SA in the first of their ODIs. Meanwhile new coach Langer has earned Warne's disapproval and a touch of mockery by pasting up buzzwords in the dressing room.

"Elite Honesty " does , to be honest (elite or otherwise) , sound like a refugee from some new world business motivational b-s $700 per ticket gabfest...

Have the feeling few locals care much about these ODIs. Timing is not ideal and recent events have the cricket perhaps of less interest to the general public (as opposed to the cricket loving hardcore). Will be interesting to see how the Indian Tests are received. If - as I suspect - Australia are rather more competitive than a lot of the gloomier views have it , they might actually serve to rekindle some interest in (and even affection for ?) the national side. We shall see.

Anyone else mildly surprised to note that Zimbabwe have just wiped the floor with Bangladesh by 150 runs in a Test Match ?

alfie wrote:Anyone else mildly surprised to note that Zimbabwe have just wiped the floor with Bangladesh by 150 runs in a Test Match ?

Me. Especially considering that it was in Bangladesh.

Delighted for Zimbabwean cricket, their first away test win since 2001. They've been through so much, it's a superb achievement. Second test on Sunday, hope they can back it up with another win.

Would be a potentially incredible series win - considering how much England/Australia struggled touring Bangladesh in recent years.

Albeit Bangladesh missing Shakib and Tamim are weakened in the batting department

Do find South Africa's ODI side to be very perplexing - in the modern times to have an 8, 9, 10, 11 of Steyn, Rabada, Ngidi and Tahir is a real weakness as is being shown today.

Didn't need their bowlers to bat in Hobart...321 a big total ! However Australia have made a good chase of it - excellent hundred from Marsh
Gone now and it's down to Carey and Maxwell to finish : needing about twelve per over a tough task...

In fact much too tough. A good chase but it has faded out and SA win the series 2-1
I'm not sure it will be a big highlight in their trophy case

Too many meaningless ODI s . This more meaningless than most. Bring on India and some proper cricket ...

India has a meaningless Masala ODI series with NZ somewhere, before our Aus tests

meanwhile BD win the toss and plied 550 runs....Can Zim show enough fortitude to bat 2 days and a session without losing 20 wickets and earn an unlikely draw?

I am assuming either they will avoid a follow-on or BD will not enforce one

If you fancy a laugh, check out the women's t20 world cup. Can't believe how poor the standard is

NZ in trouble in the UAE against Pakistan in the first test, at 128-6

They were bowled out for 153 with Pak closing the day on 59-2 in reply

New Zealand have fought back admirably to a position of strength. After bowling out Pakistan for 227, they're now 189/4 in the second dig, a lead of 115.

Ah, Yasir Shah has decimated the Kiwis. A spell of 4 wickets for 9 runs in 4 overs.

There's an exciting finish going on in the UAE. Pakistan collapsing after having the game virtually won

Yes, 130/3 to 164/9, still need another 12 to win. Hasan Ali has, bizarrely, gone for a big heave and is the ninth man out.

New Zealand win! Incredible fightback. Seven wickets for 41 runs. What a famous win for the Kiwis in the UAE.

I made a brave bet on lankans winning....and brave lankans fought hard, kept me in the hunt for very long.....as Eng proved juts a bit better

and I made very brave bets on NZ winning after they won toss and chippe din a few more after they were bowled out for 150 odd and had a generous return, and an ultra-thrilling game to watch as the icing on the cake

My only card supporting NZ was that pak was batting last since NZ had won the toss

Winning the toss in subcontinent is a huge lottery that turns a 40% side into a 60% potent one

and mind you these bundles of wicket picking Ajaz Patel, Leach are not the greatest spinners......you need to be steady and put it there in the 4th inning

The most Pakistan loss ever that

Yes, you'd definitely have a few quid on Pakistan losing once the collapse started. Let's hope none of their players did though.......

The ICC disputes committee has dismissed the PCB's case against the BCCI for the cancellation of bilateral series dating back to 2014 and 2015. PCB was claiming compensation of $63m. ICC confirmed that they can't get involved with a government decision.