Rest of the World

First topic message reminder :

I figure a thread for cricket stuff from around the world that doesn't warrant a series-thread is useful

We moan about England's inconsistencies, but imagine being a Pakistan supporter. P can be brilliant one minute, dire the next. It never ceases to amaze me how professional cricket teams manage these spectacular collapses. To be 40-odd runs short of victory with SEVEN wickets in hand and to lose ought to be nigh-on impossible.

I think the problem Pak have is they are a bit of a six out = all out kind of side. Their tail is literally shocking and like something from a bygone era

Sarfraz is a mediocre captain tbh. He's living off beating India in the CT2017 final. Let's not forget they lost in the Middle East to Sri Lanka, whom lets be honest are very poor. Sri Lanka have in fact lost 5 consecutive matches at home to India, no shame there as India are a mighty fine side. And we've just battered Sri Lanka in their conditions and we aren't exactly renown tourists.

Pakistan needs a strong leader, not Sarfraz whom continually abusing his own players.

Yet Pakistan managed a good win in English conditions only a few months ago ...

As Sir Fred points out , they are a mercurial mob - you never know exactly what to expect from them. Not really a new thing for Pakistan: at least it ensures their games are rarely boring !

Pretty good effort from NZ , too. Must have taken a lot of spirit to even believe victory was still possible in those circumstances : many sides might have given up.

Phemominul Haque upto his usual tricks in this Bangladesh/WI test I see - Bangladesh well on top with a first innings lead of around 100

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Phemominul Haque upto his usual tricks in this Bangladesh/WI test I see - Bangladesh well on top with a first innings lead of around 100

Unfortunately their second innings is disintegrating rapidly ...55/5...

Slender lead unless tail wags.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Phemominul Haque upto his usual tricks in this Bangladesh/WI test I see - Bangladesh well on top with a first innings lead of around 100

Unfortunately their second innings is disintegrating rapidly ...55/5...

Slender lead unless tail wags.

WI could be looking at an under 200 chase...which is very "gettable"

Windies lost by a relatively large margin in the end. Has Shai Hope scored even a hundred runs in total since England embarrassingly made him look like Bradman last year?

Think he had one amazing game at headingley VTR which is beginning to look like a huge outlier in his career.

Good news for him is england play him again soon!

Yes, one good game and little else. I remember at the time there was all this talk of him being the next great West Indian batsman. I just thought we'd made a very poor player look amazing

VTR wrote:Yes, one good game and little else. I remember at the time there was all this talk of him being the next great West Indian batsman. I just thought we'd made a very poor player look amazing

Won’t be the first or last time that happens - I still shudder when I hear the name “Peter Fulton”

Total dog of a pitch in Dubai for the second Test. No pace or bounce yet Pakistan plodding along at 2.3rpo. These kind of pitches are merely for mediocre Pakistani batsmen to boost their averages

Yasir Shah 8/41 to leave New Zealand absolutely wrecked.

New Zealand collapse from 50 for 0 to 90 all out after a superb spell from Yasir and a little bit of bad luck and poor shot selection. Yasir finished with 8 from the innings.

Pitch must have changed character quickly

The cue for me is always judge the pitch on how Babar is batting, if he's playing slow then the pitch is a little more difficult than it seems at first glance. If he could only learn how to play with the tail he would be the complete batsman.

*Kiwi fightback klaxon*

Well...they're 218/4 in the follow-on attempt. Still 110 behind, but at least they're restoring pride after yesterday's debacle.

ShahenshahG wrote: If he could only learn how to play with the tail he would be the complete batsman.  

He needs a bit more than that....this is a guy who only got two first class centuries to his name and none in tests. Hes and excellent limited overs player but just doesnt have the mental endurance and technique to be a real force in tests. Even when he does try to bat with patience he doesnt tend to stay in long

Whilst Nathaniels overegged his point a bit as usual there is some truth in saying that the Pakistani batsmen are not that good, they dont have the same level of superstars that they did a few years ago and still relying on a now ancient Hafeez. Coupled with the dog awful tail its a flakey side.
To make that kind of score is a big deal and must partly be down to the pitch, but also New Zealands lack of bowlers who can make something happen when theres no seam movement. That first innings from NZ looks like the kind of panic that has previously affected England and habitually affects South Africa the minute a slow bowler comes on regardless of whether theres turn or not.
Playing on these plastic UAE wickets doe stake a certain skillsets with bat and ball and mentality to be successful, but it makes for dull watching at times and winning the toss becomes vital.

Today marks the four year anniversary of the passing of Australian batsman Phillip Hughes, he would've been 30 this coming Friday. Spare a though for him.

Innings and 184 run defeat to Bangladesh, another low for the West Indies.

NZ wins the toss, bats first, hands out debut to a 34 year old off spinner raises in Australia
I would say NZ have the edge as Pak has to bat last

208/6 puts it back Pakistans way.
Yasir Shah is just 2 wickets short of 200 in just his 33rd test. He may have one of the more dubious actions in world cricket but thats some going, the current record is 36 set in 1925.

--Followed this game a bit after putting my money on NZ
Pitch is turning quite a lot on D1 and is reversing too...& very difficult to score

On the back of Raval, williamson and Watling NZ has put 229/7....doesn't appear a lot but its more than a  fighting total in my view

even if NZ's  tail wags I don't see them going much past 250....cause scoring runs on this pitch is not easy

And that makes Watlig's 42*a Herculean effort of 180 balls

--I don't see Pak really getting past 300 on this.....270ish if they bat well....and their worst case of being bundled out could be a lot lower
It's possible to bat, bat , bat very long on this pitch....but not get runs and then eventually find a ball that has your end written on it

--NZ has the bowling resources that can exploit the reverse and spin.....and will win if they can go so far as setting Pak 150+ in 4th inning.
you don't need great spinners...but steady ones on this pitch especially 4th inning

--Saw Yasir Shah after long.....& noted again he's built like Warne, shortish, stocky, with similar action...has a big leg break and a good googly...a very good leggie
BUT short of Warne in not giving as much rips Warne could...which allowed Warne imparting big spin on even unhelpful pitches
and other than a googly.....Yasir doesn't have  as many variations either...the skidder, slider / top-spinner, Flipper...Warne had so many variants of the delivery that came in or kept straight...other than the Googly

KPF ...so far it looks like NZ dont even have steady spinners. Reading their cvs they dont exactly have a lot of pedigree.

Despite Sommerville hanging around and some early success for Boult Pakistan look well set to get a lead.

Hafeez announced hes going to retire mid game special!

Not working out too well for NZ at the moment...they got their 275 but Pakistan appear poised to go substantially past that (barring one of their notable collapses !)
Think the Kiwis will need a big second innings ; but they might get that I guess in which case a draw is the likeliest outcome.

I find these very flat wicket UAE Tests difficult to watch...lack of atmosphere plus some rather tedious cricket not offering a lot of incentive to tune in. Currently Pakistan are inching along at 2.48 per over with just three down ; the batsmen look safe enough although there is some turn for the spinner.
233/3 just after lunch.

The NZ spinner have finally got into the game and it looks like a fairly modest lead for Pakistan given how awful their tail is. 50-100 runs is pretty handy on a pitch thats offering a bit to spinners, but batting first still gives NZ a sniff.

So Pak batted better than I expected through their 2 most accomplished test batsmen.......Asad and Azhar
But once NZ got past them, end came too fast......and Pak's 74 run lead is only just about an offset for batting 4th.......
NZ need to put on 225ish to be in the game and it will be even game.......given that the ball is spinning even for Kiwi spinners and their offspinner, 34 year old debutant finished as good as Pak's Bilal
In the 4th inning i.e 100 overs from now.....these Kiwi spinners will be even harder because of the pitch....if they can continue to "put the ball there" with the few variations they have both of an arm ball each

The Pakistan tail gives Caddick/Giddins/Mullally/Tufnell a run for their money in the extreme awfulness stakes. So NZ definitely have a chance if they can get a lead of 150

26/2 at close puts Pakistan back in the driving seat. Shah got his 199th wicket, just one more to get a quite remarkable record.

Gooseberry wrote:26/2 at close puts Pakistan back in the driving seat. Shah got his 199th wicket, just one more to get a quite remarkable record.

NZ have to bat out of their skin.... they bat deeper than Pak...Williamson has to play yet another material inning

60/4 and real trouble has turned into 125/4 and a growing position of strength for the Kiwis. The great Kane Williamson top scoring in both innings.

NZ has crawled up by 50 runs with 6 wickets in hand
Williamson, Nicholls, Watlig can all stick around and Grandhome can deliver a quick 20 to 30odd......NZ's lower order can hang around too..... esp if a proper batsman is at the other end

So another 100 runs...would get them to a fighting total and anything above that would start tilting balance in NZ's favor

If they get to 220ish up.....game is beyond Pak

I make New Zealand narrow favourites now, but they're still available at 3/1 in-running.

Lead of 66, still six wickets remaining. Another 100 runs and it becomes an uphill struggle for Pakistan

Duty281 wrote:I make New Zealand narrow favourites now, but they're still available at 3/1 in-running.

Lead of 66, still six wickets remaining. Another 100 runs and it becomes an uphill struggle for Pakistan

I have a a few little bets riding on NZ and one on India all at average ~3.5 times return
It's always a well calculated gamble to bet on team bowling 4th in my view esp if the odd for return offered are so high

question deemed unimaginable at the end of session-1 of the day creeping in now
When will NZ consider declaring

by the end of today...they will lead by 225....so I guess.....at most they will bat 10 overs tomm & set Pak 275 to win or survive in 80 overs

Quite an incredible stand at any time, but in the circumstances out of this world.
It does suggest that the pitch remains far from unplayable, but with their long tail and further deterioration of the pitch as well as the momentum being firmly with NZ its looking increasingly tricky for Pakistan. Even if they get the wickets rapidly tomorrow they will likely be facing a target over 250.

Shahs record is overshadowed by this turnaround.

I think it's actually very tricky for New Zealand in deciding how to play it.

They now lead by a shade under 200. That's 25 or so less than KP_f was (understandably) anticipating.

My approach for New Zealand (which they may not appreciate) is to get in a position where they shouldn't lose the game before trying to win it. That's admittedly cautious and old school but I don't think it's too unreasonable given they're the away side in a 3 match series currently at 1 win each.

Furthermore, they've come from behind in this game and won't want to chuck away their good work now. Also, even though there has been less than 250 runs scored in every one of the 4 days so far, Pakistan could still have a blitz at the end if they needed something like 110 off 20 with 7 or 8 wickets left. Lose 2 or 3 and then they should still be able to put the shutters down.

All in all, I would try and bat on for much of the morning and then let Pakistan have 20 minutes at the crease before lunch.

As always, a game of opinions ....

Phenomenal effort from Williamson and Nicholls. The series on the line going into the final day, an utterly fascinating prospect.

Do New Zealand attempt to smash it around tomorrow, declare early, and risk it all for a stupendous series win in the Middle East? Or would they rather play it relatively safe? Do Pakistan attack with their field placings tomorrow, aiming to provoke a quick collapse? Or are they happy with the draw?

Whatever happens, New Zealand have been astonishingly good at times.

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I make New Zealand narrow favourites now, but they're still available at 3/1 in-running.

Lead of 66, still six wickets remaining. Another 100 runs and it becomes an uphill struggle for Pakistan

I have a a few little bets riding on NZ and one on India all at average ~3.5 times return
It's always a well calculated gamble to bet on team bowling 4th in my view esp if the odd for return offered are so high

Agreed. Bookmakers tend to underestimate the advantage of batting first.

I think I am with Guildford. Its a lot of hard work to throw away by trying to go mad tomorrow, and maybe folding up to leave 250 in 70 overs or similar. Bat until its safe then give the batting team a hopeless situation. Remember last year England worked hard to get back into a Test vs the Windies a gave them a sniff on the declaration which ended up in an embarrassing defeat

VTR wrote:I think I am with Guildford. Its a lot of hard work to throw away by trying to go mad tomorrow, and maybe folding up to leave 250 in 70 overs or similar. Bat until its safe then give the batting team a hopeless situation. Remember last year England worked hard to get back into a Test vs the Windies a gave them a sniff on the declaration which ended up in an embarrassing defeat

Still annoyed about Root's stupid declaration against the Windies last year. NZ's best hope for a win is to collapse as I doubt they will declare setting anything P can get or which will give them enough time to bowl them out.

NZ have to go for strokes tomm morning.....esp Williamson as he already has the 100 and Nicholls after he gets the 100

and when wickets fall.....Grandhomme and Southee aught to be sent in to use the long handle and get 20 and 15 odd each of as many balls.
How many overs NZ bats tomm...will also depend on how fats they can score.

pak went defensive .....did not take the new ball....and towards the end Yasir was bowling round the wicket wide outside leg.....all to devoid NZ any runs
NZ on the other hand gotta go at 4 to 5RPO tomm....and have to have a crack with the ball before lunch tomm

I fancy a draw whatever they do. But agree with guildford the Kiwis ought not go making a present of this after fighting back so well. Bat a bit longer (if they can) and hope Pakistan collapse. But unless the pitch miraculously disintegrates overnight I can't see them being bowled out in two sessions.

Williamson out first ball, so we could be in for a sharp collapse and a grandstand finish.

Righty-ho, New Zealand are smashing it about.

To dare is to do. New Zealand have declared after 47 minutes. Pakistan need 280.

The kind of aggressive cricket we are seeing from England these days. Remarkable performance from NZ and good to see a team away from home and ahead in the series not content to sit on a draw and gun for the win.

Pakistan seem to lack heart.

32/2, the big wicket of Azhar Ali has been captured. Still 67 overs remaining.

Might have been a good thing Williamson got out early today...

All results possible ; but I can't see Pakistan taking any risk chasing the target after the early wickets...still fancy the draw but NZ the better chance of forcing a win - that Pakistan tail is pretty flimsy.

Kiwis chipping away, three down already are Pakistan in just the eighteenth over. Three more wickets and a batsman with a sub-20 FC average will be coming to the crease.

New Zealand odds-on now.

Two in two balls! The debutant Somerville on a hat-trick. 43/4!

The new lad has turned this very much NZ's way ! At four down Pakistan have a real struggle ahead to survive the day...I guess praying for rain is likely to prove fruitless

Real credit to the Kiwi's ...no one else can win visiting this place : even if they don't win it they've given a tremendous account of themselves , refusing to get discouraged by the odd horror session