Rest of the World

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I figure a thread for cricket stuff from around the world that doesn't warrant a series-thread is useful

A Michelle for the fiery Olivier, fantastic spell

105-7 Pak in all sorts

Also back on NZ game, good to see Southee back in the runs!!! But Sri Lanka really let their foot off the pedal there!

8 down! Yasir gone!

Steyn getting pummelled here, line and lengths all over the place.

..That Pak-SA game is a cracker...on a bouncy and fast pitch assisting the seamers

SA has better batting....& better bowling too and should be favorites ...but Pitch has equalized the batting.....and Babar Azam played an inning that might be match winner....although Pak are still behind

---For SA its too risky to play with 3 seamers one of whom is Steyn......likely to breakdown

Oliver picked 6-for on debut...replacing Ngidi....but in character/style he is a replacement of Morkel......tall like him....coming in at 140-145kph from a height and getting a lot of bounce off length
SA's pace reserves are quite good indeed.....and I am assuming Philander is injured

...SA are favorites but gambling money with 5 times the return should be on Pak....if they can set 175ish in the 4th inning

SA are a couple of middle order batsmen short of a very good side. Their stable of fast bowlers seems endless, and their openers easily as good as any in world cricket currently (which admittedly isn't saying a lot !).
The sides collective inability to play spin is still an issue mind, as is the low order batting.
But losing AB and having Philander injred hasnt hurt them as much as it mightve.


Sri Lanka meanwhile are again demonstrating just how rank awful they are now. New Zealand are absolutely murdering them. Not wanting to take the shine off what was an historic and morale boosting series victory for England but they are truly and awful side.
7 of their bastmen didnt even last 10 balls, and the last 4 went without scoring a run between them. Even Dickwella only managed one scoring shot. Boults a fine bowler, but not 6/30 fine.
Lathams lasted nearly as manay balls as the entire sri lankan batting line up combined already.

Pakistan have gone full Pakistan here - a collapse of epic proportions. Masood ridiculously taking a single first ball of the over to expose Yasir not helping either

149 is the lowest possible defendable total....which most likey Pak will not be able to defend.....barring a "choke" from SA

Could be a close game. Pakistan blew their chance though, should have set at least 220 from where they were. I'm like a stuck record on this issue but you can only marvel at Mohammed Amir the Test number 8

Pakistan-South Africa has been an odd test. Wicket doesn't look that bad for batting, but we've still had thirty wickets in two days (!) and many collapses.

New Zealand pulling away against the Sri Lankans.

saw extended highlights and boy shaan masood played some amazingly handsome short arm pulls....that looked like drives on the up...before falling to one such stroke.

Pitch has a lot of bounce and enuf movement off the seam
Pak seamers all in the 135-140 bracket....a yard slower that SA in the 140-145 bracket...& though SA are favorties anything can happen

Sri Lankas murder continues I see.

It would be hard work for SA to screw up form their position of strength

The only team that could lose from South Africa's current position are bowling at them

VTR wrote:The only team that could lose from South Africa's current position are bowling at them

Du Plessis out for a duck which means both captains bagged a pair.

Gooseberry wrote:SA are a couple of middle order batsmen short of a very good side. Their stable of fast bowlers seems endless, and their openers easily as good as any in world cricket currently (which admittedly isn't saying a lot !).
The sides collective inability to play spin is still an issue mind, as is the low order batting.
But losing AB and having Philander injred hasnt hurt them as much as it mightve.

The Saffer top four seem to be living on past glories....

Let's look at the top seven over Tests in 2018, including this one, and series against Sri Lanka, Australia and India....

Markram 10 Tests, 762 runs @ ave of 33.60
Elgar 10 Tests, 661 runs @ ave of 36.72
Amla 10 Tests, 510 runs @ ave of 26.84
de Bruyn 7 Tests (total), 273 runs @ ave of 21
du Plessis 10 Tests, 463 runs @ ave of 24.36
Bavuma 5 Tests, 295 runs @ ave of 42.14
de Kock 10 Tests, 392 runs @ ave of 21.77

Amla's 35, du Plessis's 34, and Elgar's 31. What's going to be of greater concern to the SA selectors will be how and when to replace this older trio...especially since both Amla and du Plessis averaged in the 20s in 2018. They will be worried that two of the younger players, de Bruyn and de Kock, are averaging only 21 in 2018.

Shiv..there is some mitigation in that SA tracks have become ridiculously hard for batsmen over the last few years but the point regarding the decline of Amla in particular is pertinent. Hes pretty much at retiremnet age anyway, but its a few years now since he was a real force in tests. Faf too seems to be struggling a bit for an extended period beyond the figures you quote, but his fall isnt as marked as he was never quite in Amlas league.
de Bruyn is raw and has time to improve but has yet to show hes really up to test cricket. Bavuma has actually had a decent run recently, but overall hes really not done much and seriously lacks big scores given hes fairly experienced now.  De kock never really seems to have lived up to his billing with the bat, but is solid enough at 7 despite a bad year.

Makram and Elgars figures even in the last year are pretty decent for openers globaly, and very good considering some of the tests theyve played in. OK they havent had to face the SA bowlers but theyve largely outperformed the opposition openers and are a solid partnership in an era thats really lacking quality openers.

The real issue for SA as a whole seems to be batting against quality spinners or on turning tracks. They are just collectively awful at it.

The lack of batsmen coming through has to be a concern for the future, Australia are showing you need more than a few good fast bowlers to be a good test side. But I do feel it wouldn't take a lot to catapult this side back up to the top.

shivfan wrote:
The Saffer top four seem to be living on past glories....

Let's look at the top seven over Tests in 2018, including this one, and series against Sri Lanka, Australia and India....

Markram 10 Tests, 762 runs @ ave of 33.60
Elgar 10 Tests, 661 runs @ ave of 36.72
Amla 10 Tests, 510 runs @ ave of 26.84
de Bruyn 7 Tests (total), 273 runs @ ave of 21
du Plessis 10 Tests, 463 runs @ ave of 24.36
Bavuma 5 Tests, 295 runs @ ave of 42.14
de Kock 10 Tests, 392 runs @ ave of 21.77

Amla's 35, du Plessis's 34, and Elgar's 31. What's going to be of greater concern to the SA selectors will be how and when to replace this older trio...especially since both Amla and du Plessis averaged in the 20s in 2018. They will be worried that two of the younger players, de Bruyn and de Kock, are averaging only 21 in 2018.

It would be good to know what were the batting averages of opponents' top 7 in those tests
My intuitive feeling is that they would be worse....as these pitches were extremely bowler friendly
I remember Elgar, Bavuma and QDK scoring difficult runs many a times lately.....and Elgar the hardest nut to crack as an opening batsman currently
Amla best days are behind hom....he has been on a decline since they took the captaincy away from him.....FaF running through an extended bad patch, would have been dropped was he not the captain .........and De Bruyn has never looked like a specialist batsman....but more a Colin Grandhomme type...in for his useful seam bowling....given that they play only 3 specialist seamers

Sri Lanka have batted through the entire morning undefeated. Only problem is they're getting behind with the RRR! Still 571 to go.

Full marks to SL for their second-innings resistance in this series. Certainly making NZ work for it.

sirfredperry wrote:Full marks to SL for their second-innings resistance in this series. Certainly making NZ work for it.

Indeed they have. Bit like the first match , though I doubt there will be enough rain to save this one.

alfie wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:Full marks to SL for their second-innings resistance in this series. Certainly making NZ work for it.

Indeed they have. Bit like the first match , though I doubt there will be enough rain to save this one.

Bit of a damp squib on day five, less than a quarter of an hour for NZ to wrap it up.

Afghanistan have secured there 8th place T20 ranking to qualify for the second stage of the 2020 world cup directly. Bangladesh and the increasingly rubbishatcricket Sri Lanka have to go through the prelim round with the next 6 qualifiers.
Scotland, Oman, Ireland, Zimbabwe, Netherlands, Hong Kong and Oman are all in the qualification tournament this autumn along with another 8 teams who come through regional competitions. The "dark horse" from that group is the UAE who are currently ranked 13th but because they didnt make the last world cup aren't eligible for direct entry to the qualification tournament (yep.)

Not that its at all confusing and complicated to have a number of qualification tournaments (which requires regional qualification) for a qualification tournament to get a place in a preliminary qualification round for the group stages of a world cup which enables you to qualify for the knock outs.

Runfest in NZ ...Guptill (138) went nuts as usual : NZ 371 and Sri Lanka giving it a good go at 162/2 after 23...

Sri Lanaka ran out of wickets and balls in the end, quite a long way short of the total.
They continue to wallow in the doldrums of mediocrity.

Pak after being 5 down for 54 are now 81-5 as SA put them in ( which is quite rare these days).....
SA have an all seam attack...with Philander back to replace Maharaj

SA clearly ahead but don't rule out Pak.......the conditions favor seam bowling BUT Pak need to somehow get to 150 to have something to bowl at for their bowlers

Pak were all out for 177, Sarfraz made 56

Gooseberry wrote:Afghanistan have secured there 8th place T20 ranking to qualify for the second stage of the 2020 world cup directly. Bangladesh and the increasingly rubbishatcricket Sri Lanka have to go through the prelim round with the next 6 qualifiers.
Scotland, Oman, Ireland, Zimbabwe, Netherlands, Hong Kong and Oman are all in the qualification tournament this autumn along with another 8 teams who come through regional competitions. The "dark horse" from that group is the UAE who are currently ranked 13th but because they didnt make the last world cup aren't eligible for direct entry to the qualification tournament (yep.)

Not that its at all confusing and complicated to have a number of qualification tournaments (which requires regional qualification) for a qualification tournament to get a place in a preliminary qualification round for the group stages of a world cup which enables you to qualify for the knock outs.

With Nabi, Rahman and Khan in the side, Afghanistan have a decent poke at winning the 2020 2020 World Cup.

Duty281 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Afghanistan have secured there 8th place T20 ranking to qualify for the second stage of the 2020 world cup directly. Bangladesh and the increasingly rubbishatcricket Sri Lanka have to go through the prelim round with the next 6 qualifiers.
Scotland, Oman, Ireland, Zimbabwe, Netherlands, Hong Kong and Oman are all in the qualification tournament this autumn along with another 8 teams who come through regional competitions. The "dark horse" from that group is the UAE who are currently ranked 13th but because they didnt make the last world cup aren't eligible for direct entry to the qualification tournament (yep.)

Not that its at all confusing and complicated to have a number of qualification tournaments (which requires regional qualification) for a qualification tournament to get a place in a preliminary qualification round for the group stages of a world cup which enables you to qualify for the knock outs.

With Nabi, Rahman and Khan in the side, Afghanistan have a decent poke at winning the 2020 2020 World Cup.

A better chance than Pakistan do of winning their current test match anyway. I think seeing them as potential champs is pushing it a bit, especially as it being held in Aus where pace bowlers will be a more significant factor. But its certainly a format that enable minnows to spring surprises and they obviously do have some genuine talent. I guess noone really thought Sri Lanka could win anything serious when they first took the proper world cup. But I just dont see that they have the depth and experience to thrive away from Asia playing against the top nations in the supers and knockouts.
They've only played Zimbabwe, Ireland and Bangladesh this year. The last time they played a decent side they were beaten 3-0 by the West Indies. Their record against the second tier sides is incredible, but they've never beaten anyone of note in this format and massively lack experience against quality players.

Meanwhile Pakistan have fought back a bit and exposed SA's flaky batting line up today but they still look set to ship a sizeable deficit.

Thisara Perreira batting at No. 7 with a career batting averge of 20......cracks a 140 off 70 odd balls...and from 120-7 bring Lanka to 300....& falling at the sight of victory
stuff that almost constitutes a miracle

the rub of green with umpiring decisions has not gone Pak's way but the are fighting hard....trailing by 34 with 5 wickets in hand....they've gotta get up by 120 odd to have something to bowl at

Aiden Markram is a heck of a talent

He is the stand out opener of his generation for sure. Players who can hack that role anywhere in the world are increasingly rare, and SA pitches tend to be a happy hunting ground for seamers and an openers graveyard. Slight caveat that Pakistan have become rank awful and are back to displaying zero effort since Misbah retired, plundered quite a lot off Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, but he's also had big scores against Australia and India too and in most series outperformed the batsmen around him.
The only struggles hes had were in Sri Lanka, if he can develop a game for spin friendly conditions then hes well on course to being a top bating talent. SA could do with getting a specialist coach in has a real understanding of how to play spin, its something as a team they have collectively struggled with in recent years.

A very exciting talent. Elgar is hardly a bad player either, youd struggle to argue theres any test team with a stronger established opening pair currently. Indias youngsters do have the potential to be even better, but cant yet be considered proven or established. Once Warner is back Australia will have a stronger claim, but currently Makram and Elgar are really the pairing to judge others by.

South Africa have some fantastic pace reserves....

Steyn
Philander
Rabada
Olivier

Not counting Ngidi, who's injured....

They certainly don't miss Abbott in the Test arena!

shivfan wrote:South Africa have some fantastic pace reserves....

Steyn
Philander
Rabada
Olivier

Not counting Ngidi, who's injured....

They certainly don't miss Abbott in the Test arena!

Read a feature on how Otis Gibson has set up & grooming a SA Elite fast bowling group & there depth of pace reserves is enviable


http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/25726506/how-ottis-gibson-set-south-africa-elite-fast-bowling-group

Gibson name-checked Anrich Nortje and Lutho Sipamla, two young fast bowlers who made a splash at the Mzansi Super League, and there are more waiting in the wings. Lungi Ngidi will be back in the frame come February, when it is expected that he will be fully recovered from a knee injury, while Dane Paterson and Beuran Hendricks have both enjoyed fruitful first-class seasons, and Junior Dala has no trouble making his presence felt with the white ball. Down the line, Corbin Bosch may follow in his father Tertius' foot-steps to become a South Africa quick.

Pakistan showing some fight in the third and final test. Set a daunting 381 to win, they've got to 153/3 at stumps. Considering they've only crossed 200 once in five attempts in this series, that's a better-than-anticipated effort.

I fully expect them to get to 294/3, before collapsing spectacularly.

Duty281 wrote:Pakistan showing some fight in the third and final test. Set a daunting 381 to win, they've got to 153/3 at stumps. Considering they've only crossed 200 once in five attempts in this series, that's a better-than-anticipated effort.

I fully expect them to get to 294/3, before collapsing spectacularly.

They need to get to less than 100 needed with 5 wickets in hand....and then its game on
or in other words...4th and 5th wicket need to get them 120 odd runs more

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BREAKING: With a 3-0 series win, South Africa leapfrog England and New Zealand into second in the @MRFWorldwide Test Team Rankings!

Pakistan slide one place below Sri Lanka into seventh.

Lets face it everyones second to India at the moment!

SA have a seam bowling attack good enough to beat anyone in helpful conditions, but the limitations to that and their batting at 3-6 was badly exposed in their last tour to Asia where they were heavily beaten by a poor Sri Lankan team.

Which isnt to say they havent earned the second place in the rankings, Englands recent series wins have bucked an awful run of results and they too have distinct problems in their side; notably functional batsmen and a lack of pace bowlers.
New Zealand have some players the match of anyone (Williamson) but overall lack a depth of quality.
Australias issues we have talked to death. Even with the big two back they will still be short of batting, lack utility players, and have thin bowling reserves.  
Pakistan seemed to have joined Sri Lanka and the West Indies in terminal mediocrity.

Next test series is England in the West Indies, which they should be expected to win and take that number two spot back, then Ireland ( a huge potential banana skin if only through a rain affected draw) and a very intriguing Ashes series between two flawed sides with a lot to prove.

Its increasingly looking like a 4 division test table, with India and Zimbabwe being in divisions of 1.

SA have a long break til they tour India. For all the strengths they have its hard to see them getting a close series there unless they dramatically improve their problem areas.

Pak chase down 266 to get their first win of tour
SA left 50 runs on the table getting to 266-2...the acceleration never came....they juts kept going at 5 RPO all the time

Scratching my head at that score from South Africa. Amla batted through for 108no. What on earth were they thinking?

VTR wrote:Scratching my head at that score from South Africa. Amla batted through for 108no. What on earth were they thinking?

It was, according to Cricinfo, the second lowest first-innings score in an ODI where just two wickets had been lost. They blamed the slowness of the pitch, but it didn't seem that bad to me.

Interesting stat. Slow pitch sounds like a poor excuse, at least have a go at hitting some boundaries with all those wickets in hand!

VTR wrote:Scratching my head at that score from South Africa. Amla batted through for 108no. What on earth were they thinking?

I watched it from 30 overs on and it was pretty clear to me they left it way too late to accelerate and Amla never truly “went” either. Very England 2014 esque innings

Didn't stay with it but I was watching halfway through the innings and had assumed they were on for a big score...rather shocked to see that Pakistan won it !
If the boot had been on the other foot there would have been Dark Mutterings...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

VTR wrote:Scratching my head at that score from South Africa. Amla batted through for 108no. What on earth were they thinking?

I watched it from 30 overs on and it was pretty clear to me they left it way too late to accelerate and Amla never truly “went” either. Very England 2014 esque innings

Cricket by spreadsheets? Analysis may have told them that 265 would win the majority of games.

ICC's Test XI of the year:-

Tom Latham, Dimuth Karunaratne, Kane Williamson, Virat Kohli (capt), Henry Nicholls, Rishabh Pant (wk), Jason Holder, Kagiso Rabada, Nathan Lyon, Jasprit Bumrah, Mohammad Abbas


Wow...not one English player
You put this ICC XI vs Eng on an "English" Pitch and chances are Anderson will toast them  
Nicholls and Rishab Pant are questionable

ICC'S ODI XI of the year:-

Rohit Sharma, Jonny Bairstow, Virat Kohli (capt), Joe Root, Ross Taylor, Jos Buttler (wk), Ben Stokes, Mustafizur Rahman, Rashid Khan, Kuldeep Yadav, Jasprit Bumrah

Not one Australian is a sad truth of their cricket now......I have a question mark on Root being there

On the ODI team: Root averaged a shade under 60 last year without padding his record against minnows, and captained the most dominant side in ODIs we have seen in a long time. Only Kholi scored more runs than him. I dont think its that controversial hes in there. Kholi and Sharma though had truely incredible years,the standard they set is way ahead of the rest of the world.

Stokes I find problematic being in there, not just because of his off field behaviour. 5 wickets at 72 makes him a poor bowler, and only 313 runs scored. I know he fields well but its baffling hes in there based on what he achieved.
Tamin Iqbal is the obvious one unlucky to miss out.

Test wise, I agree Pant is an oddity, although its hard to come up with a keeper who genuinely deserves a place. Most have been very inconsistent, and whilst he was brilliant Foakes hasn't exactly played enough to genuinely be considered.
It is intriguing that so few Indians make the test team, despite them being the top side. Only one from the second ranked team (SA) and none from England (ranked third). Perhaps because both sides have gone through quite a lot of flux through the year, but also that they haven't overly relied on one or two players.
Checking Holders record he really has been a stand out player for the West Indies in a year that they've been very poor. Averaging 37 with the bat and just 12 with the ball is pretty remarkable regardless of the teams hes played against, he did every bit as well in the one test against India as he did in the ones against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Gooseberry wrote:

On the ODI team: Root averaged a shade under 60 last year without padding his record against minnows, and captained the most dominant side in ODIs we have seen in a long time. Only Kholi scored more runs than him. I dont think its that controversial hes in there. Kholi and Sharma though had truely incredible years,the standard they set is way ahead of the rest of the world.

Stokes I find problematic being in there, not just because of his off field behaviour. 5 wickets at 72 makes him a poor bowler, and only 313 runs scored. I know he fields well but its baffling hes in there based on what he achieved.
Tamin Iqbal is the obvious one unlucky to miss out.

Test wise, I agree Pant is an oddity, although its hard to come up with a keeper who genuinely deserves a place. Most have been very inconsistent, and whilst he was brilliant Foakes hasn't exactly played enough to genuinely be considered.
It is intriguing that so few Indians make the test team, despite them being the top side. Only one from the second ranked team (SA) and none from England (ranked third). Perhaps because both sides have gone through quite a lot of flux through the year, but also that they haven't overly relied on one or two players.
Checking Holders record he really has been a stand out player for the West Indies in a year that they've been very poor. Averaging 37 with the bat and just 12 with the ball is pretty remarkable regardless of the teams hes played against, he did every bit as well in the one test against India as he did in the ones against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

I thought Morgan is the captain of ODI side

Stokes should have been in the test side...he is the best allrounder in the world

Anderson, Ashwin and Jadeja left out for presumably being home condition dependent bowlers

Gooseberry wrote:

On the ODI team: Root averaged a shade under 60 last year without padding his record against minnows, and captained the most dominant side in ODIs we have seen in a long time. Only Kholi scored more runs than him. I dont think its that controversial hes in there. Kholi and Sharma though had truely incredible years,the standard they set is way ahead of the rest of the world.

Stokes I find problematic being in there, not just because of his off field behaviour. 5 wickets at 72 makes him a poor bowler, and only 313 runs scored. I know he fields well but its baffling hes in there based on what he achieved.
Tamin Iqbal is the obvious one unlucky to miss out.

Test wise, I agree Pant is an oddity, although its hard to come up with a keeper who genuinely deserves a place. Most have been very inconsistent, and whilst he was brilliant Foakes hasn't exactly played enough to genuinely be considered.
It is intriguing that so few Indians make the test team, despite them being the top side. Only one from the second ranked team (SA) and none from England (ranked third). Perhaps because both sides have gone through quite a lot of flux through the year, but also that they haven't overly relied on one or two players.
Checking Holders record he really has been a stand out player for the West Indies in a year that they've been very poor. Averaging 37 with the bat and just 12 with the ball is pretty remarkable regardless of the teams hes played against, he did every bit as well in the one test against India as he did in the ones against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

I thought Morgan is the captain of ODI side

Stokes should have been in the test side...he is the best allrounder in the world

Anderson, Ashwin and Jadeja left out for presumably being home condition dependent bowlers