NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
1 July 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
WESTPAC Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington

Live on Sky Sports HD

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
30 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 30
664 Points 360

B. Recent Form

24 June 2017
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 15 to New Zealand

9 July 2005 
Eden Park, Auckland 
38 – 19 to New Zealand 

2 July 2005 
Westpac Stadium, Wellington 
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005 
Lancaster Park, Christchurch 
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993 
Eden Park, Auckland 
30 – 13 to New Zealand 

26 June 1993 
Athletic Park, Wellington 
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993 
Lancaster Park, Christchurch 
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983 
Eden Park, Auckland 
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983 
Carisbrook, Dunedin 
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983 
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington 
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983 
Lancaster Park, Christchurch 
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND

[tbc]

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  

[tbc]

I do tend to challenge opinions I don't agree with. You know that following you disagreements about Lancaster and constant changing of your mind on who you would pick for England. You still holding a grudge for someone having a different opinion to you on a forum?

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do tend to challenge opinions I don't agree with. You know that following you disagreements about Lancaster and constant changing of your mind on who you would pick for England. You still holding a grudge for someone having a different opinion to you on a forum?

That must be it..........and I had you down as a fair minded 'agree to disagree' sort of chap. How wrong was I?

What's the point. It's a forum for discussion. I don't agree with someone ill try to challenge an idea and ask why people feel that way.

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the point. It's a forum for discussion. I don't agree with someone ill try to challenge an idea and ask why people feel that way.

You are funny...still as you don't appear to be very self aware its probably best I leave you and your ego be.

And there goes the series.

Its not the players he chose but his system is bonkers. He's sacrificed his set piece for something I don't know what?

Who will run the lineout? Gatland got rid of his no.1 and no.2 jumpers on tour and replaced them with guys who hold their hand up but in truth are no way as skilled.

Itoje is class but he's one guy. Jones is at best alright in the lineout.

Warburton and Faletau occasionally jump for Wales but hell I saw Jan Serfontein (12) win a lineout for SA last week. Neither are POM.

Then come scrum time you've lost bulk in Kruis and POM and replaced it with what? We barely got parity in the lineout and certainly lost the scrums. We've weakened both.

Well thats the set piece then what about the 10-12? Yes its decent on paper but who is going to take the responsibility for 1st phase tackling in the backline? T'eo is a unit. Farrell is committed as is Sexton but there is a difference between a unit and someone who does a job.... especially when SBW is running down your channel.
Its not the first 5 tackles I worry about, its the 5 after that when Farrell and Sexton are smashed up. Its the attacks when Farrell and Sexton are bruised and can't hit those crisp passes.
Does the lion operate a sweeper position in defence? Murray is a decent tackler but he doesn't have the pace ala Webb to cover such a role as tackles will be broken in this game.

Stander on the bench is a good call but its too late and Nowell... the kid has great skills in attack but he gets burnt as his one on one speed is poor.  NZ will exploit his pace if he ever gets on.
I look at the team and I see a 30 point margin. Its not the players necessarily, its the combinations and the way Gatland has set the team up. If they aren't within a score come 50 mins their heads will drop and it will get ugly fast.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Maybe Ireland would have smashed the ABs

One win in over a hundred years of trying really has given you some confidence hasn't it?

Nah I just don't really care what you think king. Though I will continue to point out any of your inconsistencies!

7 1/2, is just trolling. Don't feed him fella.

Agree with you about Te'o fa0019. He comes from the NRL where being a hard man is a requirement otherwise you get hurt. Te'o and SBW cancelled each other out for the most part. He fluffed a certain try and didn't create much but was very solid in D. SBW will run all day into a brick wall because that's NRL. What kind of brick is Farrell made of?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah I just don't really care what you think king. Though I will continue to point out any of your inconsistencies!

You really are going to struggle with quantum theory.

Listen I know what you are laddie, so jog on your sad little way. However don't pick on people because however you justify your behaviour, the fact is at best your a tedious wum and mores the point, your a nasty little bully and I don't like bullies. Alright.

fa0019 wrote:Who will run the lineout? Gatland got rid of his no.1 and no.2 jumpers on tour and replaced them with guys who hold their hand up but in truth are no way as skilled.

Itoje is class but he's one guy. Jones is at best alright in the lineout.

Warburton and Faletau occasionally jump for Wales but hell I saw Jan Serfontein (12) win a lineout for SA last week. Neither are POM.

Perhaps the Lions need to try this? Obviously it would work better with the likes of Laidlaw rather than Murray.

ebop wrote:Agree with you about Te'o fa0019. He comes from the NRL where being a hard man is a requirement otherwise you get hurt. Te'o and SBW cancelled each other out for the most part. He fluffed a certain try and didn't create much but was very solid in D.

Its not necessarily no T'eo its who will pick up that baton from him?

Bully who exactly king. Again it's a discussion forum. I know you've never appreciated being questioned but hey ho. You're not your by the way.

TightHEAD wrote:7 1/2, is just trolling. Don't feed him fella.

7 1/2 doesn't troll, he relentless pounds away when he thinks someone is being inconsistent. It's often not pretty, since anyone being consistent rarely wants to admit it, and 7 1/2 is happy to point that out to them across several pages of a thread.

Yeah sorry. It's me not you.

I think you're ok 7.5

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bully who exactly king. Again it's a discussion forum. I know you've never appreciated being questioned but hey ho. You're not your by the way.

Thing is you don't actually discuss anything. All you do is irrationally question others opinions. Now why is that?  What are you so fearful of that you're unable proffer your own opinions without the need to put others down all the time?

I suggest you learn to resolve your feelings in more productive way.

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bully who exactly king. Again it's a discussion forum. I know you've never appreciated being questioned but hey ho. You're not your by the way.

Thing is you don't actually discuss anything. All you do is irrationally question others opinions. Now why is that?  What are you so fearful of that you're unable proffer your own opinions without the need to put others down all the time?

I suggest you learn to resolve your feelings in more productive way.

I suggest he learns to use the quote button too as he's often responding to points made many posts before!

Only just catching up with the Canes game. Gotta say Laidlaw had a good one!

[quote="kingelderfield"]

No 7&1/2 wrote: All you do is irrationally question others opinions.

Actually, 7 1/2 is usually very rational, and happy to offer opinions

Not sure if this is in the right place as he hasn't made the 23, but Justin Tipuric’s stats are amazing 59 tackles from 59 this tour, which together with his 2013 lion's stats 49 tackles from 49 means he's never missed a tackle in his lion's career.

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/sokeefe/tipuric-lions-stats/

Been a bit slack. If anyone's in Wellington and wants to be taken out today, or Monday let me know. I'll check the post until about 1pm here and over the weekend. Just let me know when and where. Can do 12-2 today and most of Monday.

Not grey and not a ghost wrote:Been a bit slack. If anyone's in Wellington and wants to be taken out today, or Monday let me know. I'll check the post until about 1pm here and over the weekend. Just let me know when and where. Can do 12-2 today and most of Monday.

TightHEAD should be available. Give him a shout.

Cyril wrote:

Not grey and not a ghost wrote:Been a bit slack. If anyone's in Wellington and wants to be taken out today, or Monday let me know. I'll check the post until about 1pm here and over the weekend. Just let me know when and where. Can do 12-2 today and most of Monday.

TightHEAD should be available. Give him a shout.

Cheers

Cyril wrote:

Not grey and not a ghost wrote:Been a bit slack. If anyone's in Wellington and wants to be taken out today, or Monday let me know. I'll check the post until about 1pm here and over the weekend. Just let me know when and where. Can do 12-2 today and most of Monday.

TightHEAD should be available. Give him a shout.

I think Farrell was badly treated by the media in the 1st Test he was rushed
back prematurely.
Maybe the thinking is Mahony try to provide a quick service,and the classic
left/right 5/8 kicking combination.
The Lineout was the big plus area for the Lions last week has it been improved
by the selections?
Scrum maybe better to try hooking the ball which is the object of new
experimental law.Rather than try to win penalties frankly Lions Scrum
has been second best in most matches.
Breakdown?AB`s usually only flood the area if the think they can win
it,otherwise they stand off and defend it.
More physicality?yes can see that being tried but AB`s are used to
it standard procedure in the RC.
French Refs?stats last 24 matches NZ 23 wins and a draw,wet weather?
=Wellington.AB`s best mudlarks in world rugby bring it on hope it`s
as good as the First one.
Goosebury you may not like my opinions or choice of whom I support.
BUT I`m as entitled as you are yours and many here value my opinion.

Griff, I suggest the guys in charge make the quote function available in the mobile view; I'd definitely use it.

2 of your problems here emacs are actually what gatland wants. He doesn't seem that bothered about the scrum ie picking vunipola who offers more around the field and in the 1st test it was nz taking advantage of that fact in the lead up to a try and as someone pointed out above Farrell senior likes people on their feet if they don't think they can win a ball at the breakdown. Now both test things may change with different refs in the 2nd and 3rd but it won't help if he concentration levels remain as hey were when 3 or 4 guys are turning off at pens and not reacting.

zombiesurvivalman wrote:Not sure if this is in the right place as he hasn't made the 23, but Justin Tipuric’s stats are amazing 59 tackles from 59 this tour, which together with his 2013 lion's stats 49 tackles from 49 means he's never missed a tackle in his lion's career.

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/sokeefe/tipuric-lions-stats/

Dirt tracker sides are different mind. Playing against SR sides who have had their best players stripped out isn't quite the same. Hamish Watson tore him a new one in the 6N, Gats and Rowntree probably laughed him and all the other scots as chancers.

I'd still rather have SOB myself but yes Warburton should be about 7th choice at the moment given his obvious lack of match fitness.

Cyril wrote:

Not grey and not a ghost wrote:Been a bit slack. If anyone's in Wellington and wants to be taken out today, or Monday let me know. I'll check the post until about 1pm here and over the weekend. Just let me know when and where. Can do 12-2 today and most of Monday.

TightHEAD should be available. Give him a shout.

Yeah, he seems pretty bored too, given that he's on here most of the time.

No 7&1/2 wrote:2 of your problems here emacs are actually what gatland wants. He doesn't seem that bothered about the scrum ie picking vunipola who offers more around the field and in the 1st test it was nz taking advantage of that fact in the lead up to a try and as someone pointed out above Farrell senior likes people on their feet if they don't think they can win a ball at the breakdown. Now both test things may change with different refs in the 2nd and 3rd but it won't help if he concentration levels remain as hey were when 3 or 4 guys are turning off at pens and not reacting.

What I find interesting is that even though say their are only 10 scrums in a match... people judge forward dominance often on how the scrums went. Compare them to the no. of rucks and they are insignificant right?

Its why you see Eddie Jones picking Marler over Vunipola for England constantly, why NZ and SA (traditionally) always seem to go with scrummagers first, ball carriers second.

My own view is that referees especially are more likely to view dominance that way and react accordingly. I think Vunipola is a great ball carrier and without him SOB is carrying the load himself.... yet I do half wonder whats going to happen when we struggle in the scrums without Kruis especially.

and this isn't talking about the fact Gatland dropped his top 2 lineout jumpers in his squad from the 23.

I agree it's a balance where coaches just have to decide what they want. It's not as if you can look at a team with vunipola at loose head and say gatland is clearly going for scrum dominance. Itoje is supposed to be a good scrumager it's why he packed down there while playing at 6 in the 6 nations. He's also come on leaps and bounds at the lineout. It is the lineout that's a touch concerning though. The only thing which went swimmingly and we've removed 2 of the key ingredients.

Bit of a thing from kaplan about the breakdown ahead of Saturday as well in the papers around stuff he perceives nz fot away with. The problem here is that it's not that nz will struggle with the nh ref just a highlights again they adapt and play the ref quickly. That said the lions should know ahead little better what they themselves can get away with.

The thing with Kaplan is that he 'only' focuses on the All Blacks. Everyone guns for the ABs. Pointing out all their short comings. Pointing out all their illegal play. Unfortunately Kaplan didn't do a piece about offside defensive lines. That would have gone down like a cold cup of sick for his target audience.

Like I said het away with what you can. Peyper tends to ignore players going off their feet slightly and not that bothered as some refs are about going off their feet. Think we all know it before the start of be game but it took really to 2nd half for the lions to start playing to it more effectively partly due to the fact the kept kicking the ball away. Don't think the lions are offside often.

That's because you're not looking 7.5. You're too busy focusing on ABs going in off their feet. I keep an eye on it.

A problem with these French referees is that they don't police the lineout properly. They allow the Lions to close the gap to about 10 cms.

And they don't police the likes of Coles flopping over the ball

Or penalising (carding) Lions players for throwing / kicking the ball away when NZ want quick taps or line outs

Too slow these French referees

Not used to fast games

ebop wrote:And they don't police the likes of Coles flopping over the ball

Coles hasn't played yet.

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:And they don't police the likes of Coles flopping over the ball

Coles hasn't played yet.

Good spotting Scott

Cole

The guy was flopping all over the Canes ball like a beached whale the other night. The French referee was either blind or thinks it's ok. The NH way. Don't want that game to get too fast now do we.

ebop wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:And they don't police the likes of Coles flopping over the ball

Coles hasn't played yet.

Good spotting Scott

Cole

The guy was flopping all over the Canes ball like a beached whale the other night. The French referee was either blind or thinks it's ok. The NH way. Don't want that game to get too fast now do we.

Perhaps to counter the fact that using the gate is optional in NZ.

I just watch the games and judge ebop. You'd be hard pressed to find me blaming a ref for a loss or claiming some sort of bias.

Yup scott, we all have things we'd like the various referees to do better in. Lions supporters don't have a mortgage on it.

This is a good read (once you ignore the clickbait headline) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94261141/lions-prop-mako-vunipola-says-he-did-grab-owen-franks-testicles-in-first-test

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This is a good read (once you ignore the clickbait headline) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94261141/lions-prop-mako-vunipola-says-he-did-grab-owen-franks-testicles-in-first-test

Some pretty rubbish journalism, he supported the ABs because he watched them and loved them mainly because of Lomu and the great

New Zealand-born, Wales-raised, England prop of Tongan descent

marty2086 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This is a good read (once you ignore the clickbait headline) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94261141/lions-prop-mako-vunipola-says-he-did-grab-owen-franks-testicles-in-first-test

Some pretty rubbish journalism, he supported the ABs because he watched them and loved them mainly because of Lomu and the great

New Zealand-born, Wales-raised, England prop of Tongan descent

Reporter writes down something player said shocker

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This is a good read (once you ignore the clickbait headline) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94261141/lions-prop-mako-vunipola-says-he-did-grab-owen-franks-testicles-in-first-test

Mako wrote:They're very supportive, to be fair

Not clear if hes talking about the twitter posts or the testicles there

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This is a good read (once you ignore the clickbait headline) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94261141/lions-prop-mako-vunipola-says-he-did-grab-owen-franks-testicles-in-first-test

Some pretty rubbish journalism, he supported the ABs because he watched them and loved them mainly because of Lomu and the great

New Zealand-born, Wales-raised, England prop of Tongan descent

Reporter writes down something player said shocker

No he made a conclusion based on that statement, I loved the ABs and watched but it doesn't mean I supported them

marty2086 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This is a good read (once you ignore the clickbait headline) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94261141/lions-prop-mako-vunipola-says-he-did-grab-owen-franks-testicles-in-first-test

Some pretty rubbish journalism, he supported the ABs because he watched them and loved them mainly because of Lomu and the great

New Zealand-born, Wales-raised, England prop of Tongan descent

Reporter writes down something player said shocker

No he made a conclusion based on that statement, I loved the ABs and watched but it doesn't mean I supported them

Err the conlcussion was based on Makos statement which is quaoted belwo it in which he says exactly that.

I think its justifiable to jump to conslussions based on what people say about themselves.