The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

First topic message reminder :

First article I came across on the Web.

marty2086 wrote:No comment on Ulster receiving only £1.58m from the IRFU?

What's that got to do with me ?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:No comment on Ulster receiving only £1.58m from the IRFU?

What's that got to do with me ?

LordDowlais wrote:The difference is, that everything is payed for by the unions with union run clubs. Even the non internationals and the foreign players.

Hmmm I wonder.....

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:No comment on Ulster receiving only £1.58m from the IRFU?

What's that got to do with me ?

LordDowlais wrote:The difference is, that everything is payed for by the unions with union run clubs. Even the non internationals and the foreign players.

Hmmm I wonder.....

It all goes the the IRFU accounts doesn't it ?

Also, it is £1.58m more than what Ulster earned so they are spending beyond their means, to the tune of £1.58m.

Anyway, as I have said previously, it doesn't bother me, but at least I am not blinded to the fact that their is a debate to be had about fair play about it.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:No comment on Ulster receiving only £1.58m from the IRFU?

What's that got to do with me ?

LordDowlais wrote:The difference is, that everything is payed for by the unions with union run clubs. Even the non internationals and the foreign players.

Hmmm I wonder.....

It all goes the the IRFU accounts doesn't it ?

Also, it is £1.58m more than what Ulster earned so they are spending beyond their means, to the tune of £1.58m.

as clueless as ever

You don't know what the money went towards but they spent beyond their means?

marty I do not care. Honestly I do not.

This obsession you have needs to stop. I suggest you take my option of a breather, and have a rest from this place, you are sounding desperate and needy.

Seriously, chill out. Talk about rugby.

LordDowlais wrote:marty I do not care. Honestly I do not.

This obsession you have needs to stop. I suggest you take my option of a breather, and have a rest from this place, you are sounding desperate and needy.

Seriously, chill out. Talk about rugby.

Excuse me?



Make claims that don't stand up to reality then you have the temerity to tell someone else to take a breather and to back off and resort to that kind of crap?

Pathetic is an understatement

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:marty I do not care. Honestly I do not.

This obsession you have needs to stop. I suggest you take my option of a breather, and have a rest from this place, you are sounding desperate and needy.

Seriously, chill out. Talk about rugby.

Excuse me?



Make claims that don't stand up to reality then you have the temerity to tell someone else to take a breather and to back off and resort to that kind of crap?

Pathetic is an understatement

OK.....

As someone mentioned previously - how is the SRU sale of Glasgow & Edinburgh coming along ?
All seems very quiet and the club's seem to be very patient, waiting for their windfall following their Union vote to realise and dispose of these two assets.....

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Marty

congrats on you're job with the gammer police, i hope their very please with your hard work.  They're may even be a promotion for you.

It's spelling not 'gammer' though I'm taking the ridiculously poor spelling in that post is a poor attempt at trolling

OMG.

Can you not see the sarcasm in his post ?

That's the trouble with you marty. You have an obsession about always being right all the time. Just take a breather.

It would see that the obvious your/you're and their/there/they're were missed, and classed as poor spelling

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Marty

congrats on you're job with the gammer police, i hope their very please with your hard work.  They're may even be a promotion for you.

It's spelling not 'gammer' though I'm taking the ridiculously poor spelling in that post is a poor attempt at trolling

OMG.

Can you not see the sarcasm in his post ?

That's the trouble with you marty. You have an obsession about always being right all the time. Just take a breather.

It would see that the obvious your/you're and their/there/they're were missed, and classed as poor spelling

So you just played dumb? Seems you're a natural

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

Actually the apostrophes go after the s not before

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

Actually the apostrophes go after the s not before

As long as we're agreed you got it wrong

Marty, much love to you. You are a master of your art. Xxx

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

Actually the apostrophes go after the s not before

As long as we're agreed you got it wrong

I didn't, both forms are grammatically acceptable, you did get it wrong though

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

Actually the apostrophes go after the s not before

As long as we're agreed you got it wrong

I didn't, both forms are grammatically acceptable, you did get it wrong though

Seeing as we are all being total jerks here

An S after the word means plural
An 'S shows ownership my the noun
An S' only happens should the word end on an S to begin with.

So that would Marty wrong to begin with, RugbyFan correct in his correction, and Marty wrong in both attempts to work his way out of being wrong.

I genuinely can't remember the 200 different rules about it, it's a lot more complex than you suggest but thank's'es's for taking the fun out of something said in jest

No problem my friend xx

Stop flirting with me

To change subject slightly from polling and Union v private owner ship.

No one has mentioned about the SA sides possible being invited to play in the Anglo-Welsh Cup (was mentioned around March for Currie Cup teams, but when Cheetahs and Kings mention new International Tournaments, does that mean they are looking at more than the Pro 12, and Anglo-Welsh Cup is a possible as well as RCC?

Also it would mean the Pro 12 Final will be in SA now and again?

Again, Mark Palmer, who is usually right on the money with these things, has just tweeted that it looks like today's meeting between the Pro 12 and the Italians concluded with an agreement that the two Italian teams will continue for at least one more season. It does seem that they are on a degree of notice though.

So it looks like two conferences it will be then!

Kingshu wrote:To change subject slightly from polling and Union v private owner ship.

No one has mentioned about the SA sides possible being invited to play in the Anglo-Welsh Cup (was mentioned around March for Currie Cup teams, but when Cheetahs and Kings mention new International Tournaments, does that mean they are looking at more than the Pro 12, and Anglo-Welsh Cup is a possible as well as RCC?

Also it would mean the Pro 12 Final will be in SA now and again?

The final is going to be an interesting one, if a SA team make the final in a NH stadium I wonder how many would travel? The same goes for two NH teams in SA based final.

Will it mean a return to the old system of top ranked finalist hosting?

BigGee wrote:Again, Mark Palmer, who is usually right on the money with these things, has just tweeted that it looks like today's meeting between the Pro 12 and the Italians concluded with an agreement that the two Italian teams will continue for at least one more season. It does seem that they are on a degree of notice though.

So it looks like two conferences it will be then!

Apparently too, the Pro12 are waiting to get a plan from the FIR for Zebre who are now controlled by the union after going bust. Its seen Padovani walk out to Toulon saying because they went bust his contract was voided.

Seems the SAs will double the tv revenue too

I read on a SA site about the PRO12 the final is in Cardiff at the Arms Park. Guessing that is a bit of them not getting terminology right.

https://ofm.co.za/article/rugby/246970/official-pro14-announcement-expected-close-to-15-july

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I read on a SA site about the PRO12 the final is in Cardiff at the Arms Park.  Guessing that is a bit of them not getting terminology right.

https://ofm.co.za/article/rugby/246970/official-pro14-announcement-expected-close-to-15-july

SS under the photograph there are 4 names, yet there are only 3 in the photo, so 2 blemishes in the first article. Great start

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I read on a SA site about the PRO12 the final is in Cardiff at the Arms Park.  Guessing that is a bit of them not getting terminology right.

https://ofm.co.za/article/rugby/246970/official-pro14-announcement-expected-close-to-15-july

SS under the photograph there are 4 names, yet there are only 3 in the photo, so 2 blemishes in the first article. Great start

The fourth name is the journo, so guessing it's so people know it's his photo

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

Actually the apostrophes go after the s not before

As long as we're agreed you got it wrong

I didn't, both forms are grammatically acceptable, you did get it wrong though

Seeing as we are all being total jerks here

An S after the word means plural
An 'S shows ownership my the noun
An S' only happens should the word end on an S to begin with.

Mike Ross's career has finished. Mike Ross's boots have been hung up.

The parent's car. The parents' cars.

The ship's horn. The ships' funnels.

The player's boot. The players' boots.

whocares wrote:Toulon are disliked because of their president behavior who comes across as pretty arrogant and do not hesitate to be quite confrontational.

Whilst the IRFU behaviour is given a good old pat on the back, with tremendous hypocrisy

Pot Hale wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is Toulons academy better than Clermonts?

By the way, there should be apostrophes in "Toulon's" and "Clermont's"

Actually the apostrophes go after the s not before

As long as we're agreed you got it wrong

I didn't, both forms are grammatically acceptable, you did get it wrong though

Seeing as we are all being total jerks here

An S after the word means plural
An 'S shows ownership my the noun
An S' only happens should the word end on an S to begin with.

Mike Ross's career has finished.  Mike Ross's boots have been hung up.

The parent's car. The parents' cars.

The ship's horn. The ships' funnels.  

The player's boot.  The players' boots.  

Incorrect

The 's shows ownership by the noun when the noun is singular e.g. in reference to one single player 'the player's boots were lost'.
The s' shows ownership by the noun when said noun is plural e.g. in reference to the entire team 'the players' boots were lost'.

I've been away for a while, travelling here and there, and still feckin travelling, and so the whole PRO12 to PRO14 is news to me. I'm really lazy, I know.

Anyway, I'm really up for it. Even PhilBB seems up for it, but he probably thinks it's a means to get into the English he so loves.

Right, I'm away for a massage.

Later, lads : )

Oh, and Northern Ireland politics

And, where's my old friend, Fly?

There's a rumour in the Kiwi media that the Sharks may want to come North too - which would mean a possible reprieve for one of the Aussie Super teams

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:There's a rumour in the Kiwi media that the Sharks may want to come North too - which would mean a possible reprieve for one of the Aussie Super teams

Are you talking about the piece in the NZ Herald Pete? if you are how reputable is that reporter?

Is he any better than Rattue?

Thanks in advance
Wayne

wayne wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:There's a rumour in the Kiwi media that the Sharks may want to come North too - which would mean a possible reprieve for one of the Aussie Super teams

Are you talking about the piece in the NZ Herald Pete? if you are how reputable is that reporter?

Is he any better than Rattue?

Thanks in advance
Wayne

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890153

Wynne Grey's been around a fair while - definitely better that Tw@ue.

Note he's reporting it as a rumour mind.

And it wouldn't do the Aussies' depth issues any favours

The expansion I think could be very good long term but for them to try to squeeze this in by 2017/18 season has a few issues attached.

For starters how competitive will the Southern Kings and the Cheetahs be?  Given the current squads and the fact the season is upon us in under 2 months, I can't see either finishing in the top half of the table.  Currently they lack the quality to compete.  Plus on the back of the Super 15 season as well, they will suffer from fatigue for sure.

I know a lot of people have mentioned removing the Italians from the league as they haven't brought anything to the league as of yet but people forget that both Wales and Scotland had to adapt to the league to begin with.  The Scots at one stage also didn't do great in the league but look at them now!  I think long term the Italians will come good as long as they start bringing home grown players through, as the imports they have tried to bring in haven't done much for them.  If they can get exposure to their U20 players in the long term they should be fine.

I just hope they don't mess with the format of the league to much.

Welshmushroom wrote:

I know a lot of people have mentioned removing the Italians from the league as they haven't brought anything to the league as of yet but people forget that both Wales and Scotland had to adapt to the league to begin with.  The Scots at one stage also didn't do great in the league but look at them now!  I think long term the Italians will come good as long as they start bringing home grown players through, as the imports they have tried to bring in haven't done much for them.  If they can get exposure to their U20 players in the long term they should be fine.

This is true as the Italian U20 team looked half way decent this year, quite a few players with potential.

The trick is to be able to introduce those players into the Pro sides without destroying them and totally demoralising them. That involves good coaching and management, something that the Italian sides have not shown that much of so far. Connor O'Shea may help in that regard, as he was a proven developer of talent in his LI and Quins days.

They will continue to need some overseas players to fill out their squads for a good while yet. They just need to get better at recruitment and bring in some players who want to be part of developing a team as much as just earning a quick buck. That of course is much easier said than done!

The sharks rumour surfaced around the time of the second lions test.
The way I heard it is that prospect of a more palatable time zone and possibly more money meant they were willing to walk from the s15

Can the Sharks just leave though?  I thought 4 teams are tied into 2019 under the current agreement?  I think more than likely South Africa will see if these 2 teams can make it work both from a performance and financial position before committing anything else to it.

Welshmushroom wrote:The expansion I think could be very good long term but for them to try to squeeze this in by 2017/18 season has a few issues attached.

For starters how competitive will the Southern Kings and the Cheetahs be?  Given the current squads and the fact the season is upon us in under 2 months, I can't see either finishing in the top half of the table.  Currently they lack the quality to compete.  Plus on the back of the Super 15 season as well, they will suffer from fatigue for sure.

I know a lot of people have mentioned removing the Italians from the league as they haven't brought anything to the league as of yet but people forget that both Wales and Scotland had to adapt to the league to begin with.  The Scots at one stage also didn't do great in the league but look at them now!  I think long term the Italians will come good as long as they start bringing home grown players through, as the imports they have tried to bring in haven't done much for them.  If they can get exposure to their U20 players in the long term they should be fine.

I just hope they don't mess with the format of the league to much.

Note that both sides will be finishing their season this weekend (they're playing each other). Neither are likely to have many Springboks involved in TRC or AIs either. So they can probably give their players a month or so off before bringing them back into a short pre-season - not much worse than any Lions' squad members.

Quality wise, they're down the bottom of Super Rugby. So as it stands, almost certainly better than the Italians, and probably ahead of Dragons & Embra.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

wayne wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:There's a rumour in the Kiwi media that the Sharks may want to come North too - which would mean a possible reprieve for one of the Aussie Super teams

Are you talking about the piece in the NZ Herald Pete? if you are how reputable is that reporter?

Is he any better than Rattue?

Thanks in advance
Wayne

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890153

Wynne Grey's been around a fair while - definitely better that Tw@ue.

Note he's reporting it as a rumour mind.

And it wouldn't do the Aussies' depth issues any favours

Cheers Pete, this was put on our board by a normally very respected person as well, in actual fact that poster is also on here, but doesn't post that often, I also thought he couldn't be any worse than Rattue, thanks for the confirmation

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:The expansion I think could be very good long term but for them to try to squeeze this in by 2017/18 season has a few issues attached.

For starters how competitive will the Southern Kings and the Cheetahs be?  Given the current squads and the fact the season is upon us in under 2 months, I can't see either finishing in the top half of the table.  Currently they lack the quality to compete.  Plus on the back of the Super 15 season as well, they will suffer from fatigue for sure.

I know a lot of people have mentioned removing the Italians from the league as they haven't brought anything to the league as of yet but people forget that both Wales and Scotland had to adapt to the league to begin with.  The Scots at one stage also didn't do great in the league but look at them now!  I think long term the Italians will come good as long as they start bringing home grown players through, as the imports they have tried to bring in haven't done much for them.  If they can get exposure to their U20 players in the long term they should be fine.

I just hope they don't mess with the format of the league to much.

Note that both sides will be finishing their season this weekend (they're playing each other). Neither are likely to have many Springboks involved in TRC or AIs either. So they can probably give their players a month or so off before bringing them back into a short pre-season - not much worse than any Lions' squad members.

Quality wise, they're down the bottom of Super Rugby. So as it stands, almost certainly better than the Italians, and probably ahead of Dragons & Embra.

Nobody is better than Dragons, so that's fake news

RiscaGame wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:The expansion I think could be very good long term but for them to try to squeeze this in by 2017/18 season has a few issues attached.

For starters how competitive will the Southern Kings and the Cheetahs be?  Given the current squads and the fact the season is upon us in under 2 months, I can't see either finishing in the top half of the table.  Currently they lack the quality to compete.  Plus on the back of the Super 15 season as well, they will suffer from fatigue for sure.

I know a lot of people have mentioned removing the Italians from the league as they haven't brought anything to the league as of yet but people forget that both Wales and Scotland had to adapt to the league to begin with.  The Scots at one stage also didn't do great in the league but look at them now!  I think long term the Italians will come good as long as they start bringing home grown players through, as the imports they have tried to bring in haven't done much for them.  If they can get exposure to their U20 players in the long term they should be fine.

I just hope they don't mess with the format of the league to much.

Note that both sides will be finishing their season this weekend (they're playing each other). Neither are likely to have many Springboks involved in TRC or AIs either. So they can probably give their players a month or so off before bringing them back into a short pre-season - not much worse than any Lions' squad members.

Quality wise, they're down the bottom of Super Rugby. So as it stands, almost certainly better than the Italians, and probably ahead of Dragons & Embra.

Nobody is better than Dragons, so that's fake news

When are "Nobody" joining the league? - sounds like they might be a handy team

Probably soon, the rate the league are accepting teams.

I think I'll have to write a Part 4 in the PRO12 saga soon. After the Union ballroom romance, and the Dragons being brought over to the union side of the dancehall, it looks like there'll be more guests at the knees up. Might have to get a bigger dance venue after this weekend.

Should it not be the ABCs of the Pro 14?

The BBC website is reporting that an announcement re: the Saffer teams should happen on Tuesday.
They also said the following:

"The revamp could see the league divided into two conferences of seven teams.
If agreed, that would see teams play their conference rivals home and away, but they are expected to also play against teams in the other conference at least once.
It is understood clubs are eager to safeguard as many derby games in the season as possible."

That bit makes ominous rumblings in whatever part of me produces all my dread.

Pete330v2 wrote:The BBC website is reporting that an announcement re: the Saffer teams should happen on Tuesday.
They also said the following:

"The revamp could see the league divided into two conferences of seven teams.
If agreed, that would see teams play their conference rivals home and away, but they are expected to also play against teams in the other conference at least once.
It is understood clubs are eager to safeguard as many derby games in the season as possible."

That bit makes ominous rumblings in whatever part of me produces all my dread.

Why? As I wrote earlier in the thread, the Welsh teams won't give up derby games.

Pete330v2 wrote:The BBC website is reporting that an announcement re: the Saffer teams should happen on Tuesday.
They also said the following:

"The revamp could see the league divided into two conferences of seven teams.
If agreed, that would see teams play their conference rivals home and away, but they are expected to also play against teams in the other conference at least once.
It is understood clubs are eager to safeguard as many derby games in the season as possible."

That bit makes ominous rumblings in whatever part of me produces all my dread.

Seems like they know the announcements coming but don't know the details so are covering all bases there

Pot Hale wrote:I think I'll have to write a Part 4 in the PRO12 saga soon.   After the Union ballroom romance, and the Dragons being brought over to the union side of the dancehall, it looks like there'll be more guests at the knees up. Might have to get a bigger dance venue after this weekend.

Temporarily, probably!

Just a quick question, what would be an acceptable loss of darby games for you personally, not what you think your club or region or province may think, but just you, if you knew it would make the league and your team financial secure?

Me personally I'm a bit torn. Been to lots of darby matches and enjoyed them, not just ones with my team in, the atmosphere is always that extra bit .... Well more.
But i want the league to be successful, don't know if this will work but I'm all for giving it a go.

Probably be willing to to lose one darby a year as long as it changes each year.
I reserve the right to change my mind though

That's the thing, the indication is that it will be for a year before more teams are added from N. America. If that's the case then losing one home and away, while disappointing, it's not the worst thing in the world especially if it can grow the league, improve income and enable a brighter future for everyone.