The Rugby Championship - Buildup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 24 Jul 2017, 10:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as there's only 3 matches left in Super Rugby, time to start thinking about TRC

Fixtures:

The Australian squad are already in camp (except for their Brumbies' players), with all their Super Rugby commitments finished - Quade Cooper and Scott Higginbotham notable squad omissions, thought Quade may get a reprieve as Karmichael Hunt is out for the next 2 months

Wallabies Squad:

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Sep 2017, 7:32 pm

Gwlad wrote:I think the Lions just proved the Scots aren't supposed to play NZ.

Proved what??

However if one takes a look at World Rugby's International fixture list for November, it somewhat proves that the Scots are supposed to play New Zealand.

by Gwlad Tue 19 Sep 2017, 8:49 pm

It was impossible to notice there were no Scots in the Lions team, or was it?

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Sep 2017, 9:08 pm

Which proves nothing....

by Gwlad Tue 19 Sep 2017, 9:27 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:Which proves nothing....

yes it does, it proves that Scots didn't qualify for the 2017 Lions team. thumbsup

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Sep 2017, 9:46 pm

Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Which proves nothing....

yes it does, it proves that Scots didn't qualify for the 2017 Lions team.

So how does that prove that Scots arent supposed to play New Zealand?

by Gwlad Tue 19 Sep 2017, 9:55 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Which proves nothing....

yes it does, it proves that Scots didn't qualify for the 2017 Lions team.

So how does that prove that Scots arent supposed to play New Zealand?

Why do Antipodeans take everything quite so literally? I think you should all turn over a new leaf.

by Guest Tue 19 Sep 2017, 9:58 pm

Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Which proves nothing....

yes it does, it proves that Scots didn't qualify for the 2017 Lions team.

So how does that prove that Scots arent supposed to play New Zealand?

Why do Antipodeans take everything quite so literally? I think you should all turn over a new leaf.

Whoops. Gwlad caught out again for saying something moronic
picard

by **George Carlin** Wed 20 Sep 2017, 5:19 am

Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Which proves nothing....

yes it does, it proves that Scots didn't qualify for the 2017 Lions team.

So how does that prove that Scots arent supposed to play New Zealand?

Why do Antipodeans take everything quite so literally? I think you should all turn over a new leaf.
Whoops. Gwlad caught out again for saying something moronic

Schoolboy insult deleted

Wind your head in Gwlad - no need for any of this.

by Mr Fishpaste Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:49 am

...so anyways...back to the Rugby Championship....

by aucklandlaurie Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:16 am

A somewhat different looking All Blacks team will go over to BA for the Argentina game on 1 October, players that will not travel are Whitelock, Retallick, Sam Cane, Beaudie Barrett, Ryan Crotty, Liam Squire. Then after the Argentina game they select the remainder of the squad who will then travel to South Africa and meet up with the above six.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:25 am

That's a bit of a risk even with it being Argentina.

by Mr Fishpaste Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:29 am

I'm hoping for a somewhat different Bok squad too...We need to try other options on the wing...and we need Paige as back-up scrummie to Cronje, rather than Hougaard...and perhaps even a different centre combo...but that said, it probably wouldn't be wise to make all these changes at once!

by BamBam Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:30 am

Likely replacements would be Barrett + ? for the locks, Savea at 7, Sopoaga at 10, Laumape at 12 and Fifita at 6?

Very strong looking replacements, but relatively unproven I guess, and dropping them all in at once could be a mistake

by eirebilly Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:31 am

Its arrogance from the AB's but it is an arrogance stemmed from pure self belief in their own strength in depth. I would love it if Ireland had the ability to be as arrogant. Fully understand this decision from them and I do not see it as a risk as I feel the AB's are simply a class above.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:32 am

Mainly Whitelock, Retallick and Barrett for me as the main risk.

by eirebilly Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:35 am

Mr Fishpaste wrote:I'm hoping for a somewhat different Bok squad too...We need to try other options on the wing...and we need Paige as back-up scrummie to Cronje, rather than Hougaard...and perhaps even a different centre combo...but that said, it probably wouldn't be wise to make all these changes at once!

Personally, I feel the SA squad has a very good balance. I just feel they are a bit poorly coached.

by Mr Fishpaste Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:40 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:That's a bit of a risk even with it being Argentina.

Yes, although, I'd have thought the ABs could rest the A-team when they come to SA... Whistle

by Guest Wed 20 Sep 2017, 10:47 am

BamBam wrote:Likely replacements would be Barrett + ? for the locks, Savea at 7, Sopoaga at 10, Laumape at 12 and Fifita at 6?

Very strong looking replacements, but relatively unproven I guess, and dropping them all in at once could be a mistake

Patrick Tuipulotu other lock. In two minds about this move. Good to throw a young team into the lion's den, get some experience and rest some players. But if it's a loss then the ABs will cop it and they've only just managed to get back in the good books after a ropey season by their standards so far.

by Collapse2005 Wed 20 Sep 2017, 11:10 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:A somewhat different looking All Blacks team will go over to BA for the Argentina game on 1 October, players that will not travel are Whitelock, Retallick, Sam Cane, Beaudie Barrett, Ryan Crotty, Liam Squire. Then after the Argentina game they select the remainder of the squad who will then travel to South Africa and meet up with the above six.

Interesting that NZ are playing a B team against Argentina away and played their best team against SA at home. Surely Argentina are a bigger challenge to NZ at the moment than SA?

Argentina gave NZ a hell of a game a couple of weeks ago in NZ and SA were completely destroyed in NZ. Dont get the logic.

by **Biltong** Wed 20 Sep 2017, 2:13 pm

Mr Fishpaste wrote:I'm hoping for a somewhat different Bok squad too...We need to try other options on the wing...and we need Paige as back-up scrummie to Cronje, rather than Hougaard...and perhaps even a different centre combo...but that said, it probably wouldn't be wise to make all these changes at once!

Different Bok squad isn't going to make much of a difference, the coach is still Poopie

by aucklandlaurie Wed 20 Sep 2017, 6:51 pm

eirebilly wrote:Its arrogance from the AB's but it is an arrogance stemmed from pure self belief in their own strength in depth. I would love it if Ireland had the ability to be as arrogant. Fully understand this decision from them and I do not see it as a risk as I feel the AB's are simply a class above.

Grant Fox, Steven Hansen, Wayne Smith, and Fozzie never personalise and or distract themselves with things like arrogance when it comes to the selection of All Black test teams. 21 players will still fly to both South America as well as South Africa.

This an experiment looking to find a way to address the demands of the next nine weeks, which requires the All Blacks to fly around the World twice and play six test matches. they also do have to look ahead as the World Cup is now less than two years away.

by Gwlad Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:42 pm

Did the SA coach actually go home...I think I would have stayed on the plane and gone to visit the Caribbean.

by Cyril Wed 20 Sep 2017, 11:52 pm

Biltong wrote:
Mr Fishpaste wrote:I'm hoping for a somewhat different Bok squad too...We need to try other options on the wing...and we need Paige as back-up scrummie to Cronje, rather than Hougaard...and perhaps even a different centre combo...but that said, it probably wouldn't be wise to make all these changes at once!

Different Bok squad isn't going to make much of a difference, the coach is still Poopie

Just watched the 17 min 'highlights'. It's not just coaching, SA are awful.

NZ were excellent when it mattered too though.

This SA side is possibly worse than the early 2000s side.

by Taylorman Thu 21 Sep 2017, 2:46 am

ebop wrote:
BamBam wrote:Likely replacements would be Barrett + ? for the locks, Savea at 7, Sopoaga at 10, Laumape at 12 and Fifita at 6?

Very strong looking replacements, but relatively unproven I guess, and dropping them all in at once could be a mistake

Patrick Tuipulotu other lock. In two minds about this move. Good to throw a young team into the lion's den, get some experience and rest some players. But if it's a loss then the ABs will cop it and they've only just managed to get back in the good books after a ropey season by their standards so far.

But SA beat Argies twice already fairly comfortably so in the who beat who stakes you need to look at the full picture. Bottom line is, Argie have beaten only Georgia this year and they got four tries. They lost to a seconds English side and havent looked like winning a RC match.

Hmm, somehow that got put under the wrong thread...

by Collapse2005 Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:13 am

Argentina were a much stronger opponent in their game against NZ than SA were in NZ. It was a 17 point win for NZ in a game that Argentina lead for a while. New Zealand's game against SA by contrast was one of the most one sided matches in the history of the rugby championship. I think it is pretty obvious at this point that Argentina is a harder game for NZ than SA.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:29 am

They lost their heads. Some of that is coaching as biltong points out some of that is lack of leaderships. They like nz have lost some major guys. You'd look at etzebeth now as a main guy whereas he wouldn't have been top 5 a few years ago. If things start well I think sa will be better. Those first few errors will test their resolve.

by eirebilly Tue 26 Sep 2017, 5:15 pm

So Saturdays fixtures are :

South Africa v Australia

and

Argentina v New Zealand

I am going for 2 home wins. I actually feel that Argentina may beat the AB's at home...

by No 7&1/2 Tue 26 Sep 2017, 5:53 pm

I'm intrigued to see how they get on with retallick this time. I think its a risk leaving him out along with the others but still think they'll have too much in the backs for argentina.

by Gwlad Tue 26 Sep 2017, 5:54 pm

eirebilly wrote:So Saturdays fixtures are :

South Africa v Australia

and

Argentina v New Zealand

I am going for 2 home wins. I actually feel that Argentina may beat the AB's at home...

Only if the ref is a corrupt narco taking backhanders from the El Hakakaka cartel

by eirebilly Tue 26 Sep 2017, 6:22 pm

I just think that with the AB's missing a few key players, the Pumas may feel this is their chance at home.

I think the Pumas will throw everything at the AB's in the first 30mins, if they get a decent lead then I think they will hold on.

by **Galted** Tue 26 Sep 2017, 7:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:I just think that with the AB's missing a few key players, the Pumas may feel this is their chance at home.

I think the Pumas will throw everything at the AB's in the first 30mins, if they get a decent lead then I think they will hold on.

I'd like to be proved wrong but I think that, were they to be leading at the business end of the match, the magnitude of what they were about to do would get to them and they'd bottle it.

They've had a lot of good performances since they've been part of the Rugby Championship but it's rare that they manage to keep their heads and turn the performance into a win.

We can always hope though.

by eirebilly Tue 26 Sep 2017, 7:49 pm

Well they AB's will never give up, even if winning, they will play at 150miles an hour up until the 80min mark.

Just think that the AB's may not be full settled for this match and the Pumas have the ability to be very electric and can certainly put points on teams quickly.

This is probably their best chance at a victory over the AB's so I would think they will more than up for it.

by Taylorman Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:23 pm

eirebilly wrote:Well they AB's will never give up, even if winning, they will play at 150miles an hour up until the 80min mark.

Just think that the AB's may not be full settled for this match and the Pumas have the ability to be very electric and can certainly put points on teams quickly.

This is probably their best chance at a victory over the AB's so I would think they will more than up for it.

They could do too, and it will add to their only win over Georgia this year in seven tests. thumbsup

by emack2 Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:29 pm

With due respect the squad here isn`t exactly weak,front row more or less,all that's
available.Scott Barrett and Romano at lock,Matt Todd at 7,Ardea Savea at 8.Kaino
or Finifitta at 6.
Barratt/Mckenzie at 10,Havili at 15 and so on,it will be closer but NZ will win
this one.SA on the other hand may well be a loss

by Taylorman Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:55 pm

emack2 wrote:With due respect the squad here isn`t exactly weak,front row more or less,all that's
available.Scott Barrett and Romano at lock,Matt Todd at 7,Ardea Savea at 8.Kaino
or Finifitta at 6.
Barratt/Mckenzie at 10,Havili at 15 and so on,it will be closer but NZ will win
this one.SA on the other hand may well be a loss

Yes well it certainly isnt their 'best' chance. Weve played this match every year since 2012 the Pumas have had better form than this. They got done at home vs a near second England side so on that logic that would have been a good chance, but not to be.

Its really the sort of thing one can say every time the ABs play without really being accountable, yet claimi it as visionary, a real gut feel, say if the first ever Pumas win over the ABs comes off.

See it all the time.

by Cyril Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:33 pm

Can't see Argentina beating NZ. Possibly close until 60ish min and then a 15-20 points win for NZ. Argentina are capable of decent patches of performances, but they're not a particularly strong side. They lack leadership (and a hard edge these days).

Aus to beat SA by 7-10 points.

by Gwlad Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:47 pm

eirebilly wrote:Well they AB's will never give up, even if winning, they will play at 150miles an hour up until the 80min mark.

Just think that the AB's may not be full settled for this match and the Pumas have the ability to be very electric and can certainly put points on teams quickly.

This is probably their best chance at a victory over the AB's so I would think they will more than up for it.

Much as we all want to believe this to be true if the referee is corrupt then Argentina will win. Otherwise if the referee is not corrupt NZ will win

by eirebilly Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:52 pm

Cyril wrote:Can't see Argentina beating NZ. Possibly close until 60ish min and then a 15-20 points win for NZ. Argentina are capable of decent patches of performances, but they're not a particularly strong side. They lack leadership (and a hard edge these days).

Aus to beat SA by 7-10 points.

It may be me wishful thinking as we all know just how strong this AB side is. The AB's are pretty much the only 'full 80min' side in international rugby right now. The way they saw off SA by not slacking off for one second was impressive. I just think that the Pumas are due one big performance, they really pushed the AB's in NZ so have the capability. I fear that Galted may be right and if the Pumas do manage to lead, they may choke under the pressure.

by eirebilly Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:55 pm

Gwlad wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Well they AB's will never give up, even if winning, they will play at 150miles an hour up until the 80min mark.

Just think that the AB's may not be full settled for this match and the Pumas have the ability to be very electric and can certainly put points on teams quickly.

This is probably their best chance at a victory over the AB's so I would think they will more than up for it.

Much as we all want to believe this to be true if the referee is corrupt then Argentina will win. Otherwise if the referee is not corrupt NZ will win

Only to certain very poor AB supporters of which I must say there are only a few. The real AB supporters are very good sports and a great craic to be around. Do not let the bad AB supporters cloud your impressions of all AB fans. I have met many and the sad few AB fans on here who claim such things are not part of the true AB fan base thumbsup

by eirebilly Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:58 pm

emack2 wrote:With due respect the squad here isn`t exactly weak,front row more or less,all that's
available.Scott Barrett and Romano at lock,Matt Todd at 7,Ardea Savea at 8.Kaino
or Finifitta at 6.
Barratt/Mckenzie at 10,Havili at 15 and so on,it will be closer but NZ will win
this one.SA on the other hand may well be a loss

I am not underestimating the quality of the AB squad, I just think that it may be slightly unsettled and could be caught cold. Probably not though but it is a possibility.

by Gwlad Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:10 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Well they AB's will never give up, even if winning, they will play at 150miles an hour up until the 80min mark.

Just think that the AB's may not be full settled for this match and the Pumas have the ability to be very electric and can certainly put points on teams quickly.

This is probably their best chance at a victory over the AB's so I would think they will more than up for it.

Much as we all want to believe this to be true if the referee is corrupt then Argentina will win. Otherwise if the referee is not corrupt NZ will win

Only to certain very poor AB supporters of which I must say there are only a few. The real AB supporters are very good sports and a great craic to be around. Do not let the bad AB supporters cloud your impressions of all AB fans. I have met many and the sad few AB fans on here who claim such things are not part of the true AB fan base

Phew that's a relief, i was hoping they weren't all that bad. Shocked

by Guest Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:41 pm

You know you're on the right track when gwlad is your staunchest ally Laugh

eirebilly

by Cyril Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:11 am

ebop wrote:You know you're on the right track when gwlad is your staunchest ally

It's like having Donald Trump on your speed-dial.

by Gwlad Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:29 am

ebop wrote:You know you're on the right track when gwlad is your staunchest ally

eirebilly

You know you're on the wrong track when you're ebop.

by Gwlad Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:29 am

Cyril wrote:
ebop wrote:You know you're on the right track when gwlad is your staunchest ally
It's like having Donald Trump on your speed-dial.

which I am sure you would love but I imagine Jeremy Corbyn is more your style Laugh

by Taylorman Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:15 am

eirebilly wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Well they AB's will never give up, even if winning, they will play at 150miles an hour up until the 80min mark.

Just think that the AB's may not be full settled for this match and the Pumas have the ability to be very electric and can certainly put points on teams quickly.

This is probably their best chance at a victory over the AB's so I would think they will more than up for it.

Much as we all want to believe this to be true if the referee is corrupt then Argentina will win. Otherwise if the referee is not corrupt NZ will win

Only to certain very poor AB supporters of which I must say there are only a few. The real AB supporters are very good sports and a great craic to be around. Do not let the bad AB supporters cloud your impressions of all AB fans. I have met many and the sad few AB fans on here who claim such things are not part of the true AB fan base

I was going to repost having read back further but with all this whining its not worth it. I made the comment about SOB to which Rory mentioned other posters weren't happy with his comments, to which I immediately apologised for blaming those for supporting him.

For us it was doubly worse for us given SOB's blatant attack on Naholo- whether you agree with that or not it doesn't matter as you've shown similar ignorance of that fact earlier.

It was you that then picked up my post to accuse NZers of this and that, and I wasn't one of them so I threw the Ref thing back at you, not really caring about your response.

So it seems you can do no wrong here Billy, SOBs an angel in your eyes, yet you're the only one whining away.

If apologies are what will take to end all that obvious misery then I deeply, deeply sorry.

Geez.

by Guest Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:14 am

Cyril wrote:
ebop wrote:You know you're on the right track when gwlad is your staunchest ally
It's like having Donald Trump on your speed-dial.

Nailed it Cyril, it's just like that

by eirebilly Wed 27 Sep 2017, 9:46 am

The most interesting game for me this weekend in the Rugby Championship will be SA v the Aussies.

SA were drubbed by the AB's but showed a bit in the first half of that match that they are not a bad team. A team not very well coached but not a bad team. The Aussies score line against the Pumas flattered them somewhat I feel.

It will be very interesting to see how both teams approach this match.

by Taylorman Thu 28 Sep 2017, 6:05 am

All Blacks team to play Argentina in Buenos Aires: Damian McKenzie, Waisake Naholo, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Matt Todd, Vaea Fifita, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Kane Hames. Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Patrick Tuipulotu, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Ngani Laumape, David Havili.

Interesting mix and good to see Havili's debut finally, another with a lot of promise.

Good back row mix with a genuine openside in Todd and Fifita back. Wonder if Todds now a World cup option?

Solid side yet experimenting still going on.

by aucklandlaurie Thu 28 Sep 2017, 6:30 am

My take is that he's just trying to pace his squad over the next 8 weeks, with Cane flying ahead to SA he has to pick two number 7s, as you say one is a genuine number 7 and the other plays as an impact loose forward off the bench, I think he's called it right.

But talking of loosies, Its going to be interesting if Read goes off as Tuipulotu will go into lock and Scott B and Fifita will run round like maniacs.

And on Havili I would like to see him on the field the same time Laumape. Its real Hurricanes reserve bench.

by Sponsored content

Day & Date	Match	Venue	Match Official	Kick Off (Local)
Week One
Saturday 19-Aug-17	Australia v New Zealand	ANZ Stadium, Sydney	Jerome Garces (FFR)	20:00
Saturday 19-Aug-17	South Africa v Argentina	Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth	Romain Poite (FFR)	17.05
Week Two
Saturday 26-Aug-17	New Zealand v Australia	Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin	Wayne Barnes (RFU)	19.35
Saturday 26-Aug-17	Argentina v South Africa	Estadio Padre Ernesto Marlearena, Salta	Pascal Gauzere (FFR)	16.40
Week Three
Saturday 09-Sep-17	Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth	Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth	Angus Gardner (ARU)	19.35
Saturday 09-Sep-17	Australia v South Africa	NIB Stadium, Perth	Glen Jackson (NZR)	18.00
Week Four
Saturday 16-Sep-17	New Zealand v South Africa	QBE Stadium, Albany	Nigel Owens (WRU)	19.30
Saturday 16-Sep-17	Australia v Argentina	Nib Stadium, Perth	John Lacey (IRFU)	20:00
Week Five
Saturday 30-Sep-17	South Africa v Australia	Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein	Ben O’Keeffe (NZR)	17.05
Saturday 30-Sep-17	Argentina v New Zealand	Estadio Velez Sarsfield, Buenos Aires	Jaco Peyper (SARU)	19.30
Week Six
Saturday 07-Oct-17	South Africa v New Zealand	Newlands, Cape Town	Jerome Garces (FFR)	17.05
Saturday 07-Oct-17	Argentina v Australia	Estadio Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza	Mathieu Raynal (FFR)	19.30
Extra Bledisloe Cup
Saturday 21-Oct-17	Australia v New Zealand	Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane	Wayne Barnes (RFU)	19.00