The Rugby Championship - Buildup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as there's only 3 matches left in Super Rugby, time to start thinking about TRC

Fixtures:

The Australian squad are already in camp (except for their Brumbies' players), with all their Super Rugby commitments finished - Quade Cooper and Scott Higginbotham notable squad omissions, thought Quade may get a reprieve as Karmichael Hunt is out for the next 2 months

Wallabies Squad:

by emack2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:17 am

Much as expected Matt Todd is the best out and out 7 in World Rugby,only George
Smith his equal.Sam Cane is a 6.5 this side is pretty strong considering and will
be rotating for the rest of time till 2019.

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:21 am

Bar Warburton tipuric sob hooper pocock you're probably right. Unless.I've forgotten someone?

by BamBam Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:21 am

My god

by mikey_dragon Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:50 am

Are the English unwell to be rating Warburton? You must be on whatever emack is....

by Scottrf Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:07 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Are the English unwell to be rating Warburton? You must be on whatever emack is....

'The English' 'The Irish'. Give it a rest.

by emack2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:48 pm

Everyone has an opinion that's mine, anyone who can displace McCaw at 7 .
Isn`t bad a great engine like RM plays 80 minutes plus,never has a bad game
what more can you want.Carrys,links,tackles,wins turnovers,slows down
opposition ball.
IF he was qualified for any NH side i`d bet he`d be fast tracked into it
THAT includes England,Ireland,Wales whatever.They tried hard enough
to get him last year.
Before he decided to continue with the Crusaders and win a AB place sadly
he`s only considered injury cover.

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:08 pm

Nah. If he's the equal of smith whom is a good player he's a level or 2 below the best.

by BamBam Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:11 pm

Replacing a retired McCaw is very different from displacing McCaw

He's viewed as the 3rd best Kiwi 7 but apparently is the best in the world

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Just on comparison when smith was with wasps he was great and it thought they'd really struggle. Then Thomas young came in and actually loomed better. Now granted he's not at the level smith was at his peak but at that point for me he was.

by emack2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:35 pm

Richie Mc Caw had 3 rivals at there best George Smith,Juan Smit,and Marty Holah.
Holah when he came north was rated Number 2 behind McCaw it was a case of
either or.
Matt Todd is NOT third choice 7 he is the ONLY out and out 7 in the NZ Squad,Savea
is bench utility covering 6.7,8.Cane as said a 6.5,as is in my opinion Pocock.
[He`s certainly not an 8].
Hooper is too much of a seagull does a lot in view,while others do the graft.
Todd was good enough at 7 for McCaw to be forced to play 6 for the Crusaders.
Hansen has said Todd is the unluckiest man in his Squad,when you consider Luke
Whitelock and Brad Shields as cover for Read.
Can`t get near the squad there depth of loose forwards is ridiculous,Ione`s brother
is a comer at 7 too.
Back rows are a matter of balance these days the classic 7 fetcher is now out
of fashion.Teams gameplans on defence effect the issue too.

by BamBam Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:42 pm

Oh ok, so Todd is the second choice 7 behind a 6.5

A country that prides itself on 7s like Jones/McCaw must have a real agenda against Todd to start a 6.5 over him in that position, the coaches must really rate him

A player who hasn't been able to lock down a position in his international side cannot be the best in the world in that position

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:53 pm

Equal best with george smith.

by **Galted** Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:01 pm

And there's no such thing as a seagull.

by BamBam Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:04 pm

Poor Steve Hansen, if only he had some sort of control over whether Matt Todd was included in the NZ side

Would save him having to lament his luck

by aucklandlaurie Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:07 pm

BamBam wrote:Poor Steve Hansen, if only he had some sort of control over whether Matt Todd was included in the NZ side

Would save him having to lament his luck

Some thoughts from Shag on Matt Todd, yesterday:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11927615

by BamBam Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:10 pm

Honestly, I don't doubt that he's a very good player

But stating he's the best 7 in the world etc is just making claims that can't be backed up in any way as it stands

He may well be, but he definitely hasn't proven it

by aucklandlaurie Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:16 pm

BamBam wrote:Honestly, I don't doubt that he's a very good player

But stating he's the best 7 in the world etc is just making claims that can't be backed up in any way as it stands

He may well be, but he definitely hasn't proven it

Whenever you use the words, "best in the World' in the same sentence on this forum, you get treated like you've farrted in the lift.

by **Biltong** Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:42 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
BamBam wrote:Honestly, I don't doubt that he's a very good player

But stating he's the best 7 in the world etc is just making claims that can't be backed up in any way as it stands

He may well be, but he definitely hasn't proven it

Whenever you use the words, "best in the World' in the same sentence on this forum, you get treated like you've farrted in the lift.

Well then, stop farrting Wink

by mikey_dragon Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:50 pm

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Are the English unwell to be rating Warburton? You must be on whatever emack is....

'The English' 'The Irish'. Give it a rest.

Never once heard you complain when somebody has said ‘The Welsh.’

by Taylorman Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:16 pm

Lot of respect for Todd who, like his mentor McCaw, has been loyal to both Crusaders and All Black rugby, and looks like he'll retire there eventually.

No doubt he would have commanded a better financial position overseas and as a seven has been as consistent as it gets. The Cane Savea model now works better for the ABs and both, as did McCaw mostly on his own, are continuing to keep Todd at bay.

Allans - emack- been a Todd fan for as long as I can remember so
I know this selection will be especially pleasing Todd being right out of the M Jones, Holah, Kronfeld school, true fetchers and ball carriers/ supporters.

Looking forward to seeing him start and hopefully show what he can really do. I think the back row has an exciting mix with Read and the new star on the block in Fifita, one of those players that looks to have so much presence...and unfortunately could even outshine Todd.

Heard a lot about Havili without paying too much attention of his Crusaders work and big raves on him as well.

by emack2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:04 pm

I`ve seen most AB loose forwards since 1954,Todd is in the tradition
of the best of them.A Cane/Todd combination playing left and right would
be interesting.
Since 2015 NZ have been using two men to cover what McCaw did,Todd
does it every match.
As to no such thing as seagulls,please don`t display your ignorance laughing

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:51 pm

Yet you rate george smith as the best openside in the world.

by Taylorman Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:16 pm

emack2 wrote:I`ve seen most AB loose forwards since 1954,Todd is in the tradition
of the best of them.A Cane/Todd combination playing left and right would
be interesting.
Since 2015 NZ have been using two men to cover what McCaw did,Todd
does it every match.
As to no such thing as seagulls,please don`t display your ignorance

Well I see Cane as more of a six anyway Alan. Hes more of a physical tight loosie, doesnt get out wide a lot because hes always heavily involved in the early phases, tackles the big guys in close a lot and doesnt carry in space much...so it almost feels that with Kaino we start tests with two sixes.

Thats why Todd starting for me is a welcome change, Id like to see a seven getting outside with the back three in support more. Even Savea in bulking up seems to carry less now, getting involved in the tight even more, where Todds an out and out open play specialist.

Its starting to get crowded at 6 and 7 with Cane, Savea, Todd, Kaino, Squire, Fifita, Ioane all the likely loosies for Japan.

by Taylorman Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:19 pm

emack2 wrote:
As to no such thing as seagulls,please don`t display your ignorance

Havent you heard of Hooper Livingstone Seagull?

by emack2 Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:32 pm

More important than my opinion with 8 Matches to play is rest and rotation,Argentina
a losing bonus point.Will tie up the RC but would be surprised if Nz lose tomorrow,
SA at sea level possibly a narrow win.
Australia in the third Bledisloe is a possible loss,Barbarians with a scratch NZ side
very possible.Then the AI`s France in France is always tough,Scotland and Wales
I doubt it.
Australia v SA tomorrow on the High Veldt home victory me thinks

by Taylorman Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:28 am

By being able to rest key players the likelihood of a comfortable win goes up in my mind, the Boks have to get up against Oz afer touring here so wont be as rested vs the ABs, some of whom wont have played for three weeks.

I think oz will win tomorrow as well. Just...

Yes Id say the Brisbane match is the most likeliest AB chance of a loss for the rest of the year, cant see them losing in the AIs where theyll take a bit of Lions revenge on the lighter sides just to remind the NHers Whistle

by **Biltong** Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:44 am

Allister Coetzee is inspiring less and less confidence.

His comments the past two weeks shows his dishonesty and ignorance.

He says Ruan Combrinck hasn't been selected due to lack of game time, but then Pollard is selected with no game time.

He says back three defence is not an issue, but then drops Rhule because he "clearly needs to work on hus defence"

He says Hougaard is technically inferior as a test scrum half, then why select him in the first place?

He loses 57-0 and suggests there are positives

The man is clearly being dishonest and clueless.

On another note.

You want rugby to work, you want transformation to work, then start by being honest, when a player isn't good enough allow those in the know to criticise , otherwise you are setting double standards within the double standards.

by **Biltong** Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:44 am

Bubble has burst now, the "brotherhood" has been quiet, boks to lose this weekend.

It is enough to get sick.

by eirebilly Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:39 am

Coetzee does not instil a lot of confidence but the Boks are a good enough squad/side on their own to counter that I feel. There were some positives (hard to see any in a 57-0 drubbing) from the game against the AB's. The first 20mins the Bok's were very much on an even keel with the AB's and had they finished off 1 or 2 of the chances they created, it may have been a different result.

The players will be desperate to put in a performance after that match so I feel they will beat the Aussies.

by Guest Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:17 am

Despite many saying the Boks weren't interested this wasn't the impression left on the ABs. The 57-0 game had shades of France in the 2015 RWC. In both games the ABs had something to prove.

In the wake of the All Blacks' record 57-0 victory against the Springboks, there has been ample commentary that the international game lacks genuine competitiveness.

But the players fervently disagree. Despite the scoreline, most All Blacks involved at North Harbour rated that test one of the most intense and demanding they had played. Half the team went straight to bed when they arrived back at their hotel.

"The Boks threw everything at us and to be honest that first half went bloody quick," said All Blacks captain Kieran Read.

by **Biltong** Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:Coetzee does not instil a lot of confidence but the Boks are a good enough squad/side on their own to counter that I feel. There were some positives (hard to see any in a 57-0 drubbing) from the game against the AB's. The first 20mins the Bok's were very much on an even keel with the AB's and had they finished off 1 or 2 of the chances they created, it may have been a different result.

The players will be desperate to put in a performance after that match so I feel they will beat the Aussies.

Boks don't have a back line.

They also don't have a number of first choice forwards available.

Jaco Kriel, Warren Whiteley, Coenie Oosthuizen, Frans Malherbe.

If you compare our backline with that of NZ, OZ, England and Ireland, the only player that might get selected in one of those teams is Jan Serfontein.

by Gwlad Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:29 am

ebop wrote:Despite many saying the Boks weren't interested this wasn't the impression left on the ABs. The 57-0 game had shades of France in the 2015 RWC. In both games the ABs had something to prove.

In the wake of the All Blacks' record 57-0 victory against the Springboks, there has been ample commentary that the international game lacks genuine competitiveness.

But the players fervently disagree. Despite the scoreline, most All Blacks involved at North Harbour rated that test one of the most intense and demanding they had played. Half the team went straight to bed when they arrived back at their hotel.

"The Boks threw everything at us and to be honest that first half went bloody quick," said All Blacks captain Kieran Read.

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:17 pm

Lively start in the Bok's Aussies match.

Folau scores, lovely worked set piece clap

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:27 pm

Imagine how good the Boks would be with a little more composure.

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:Imagine how good the Boks would be with a little more composure.

Yes, the Boks' "in-the-moment" decision making lets them down too often...

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:41 pm

Mr Fishpaste wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Imagine how good the Boks would be with a little more composure.

Yes, the Boks' "in-the-moment" decision making lets them down too often...

Another one right there where if they kept the ball, they may have scored. No need to force the pass all the time. Composure is killing them out there.

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:45 pm

Two high tackles in a row from the Aussies, last one Etzebeth kicks off.

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:46 pm

Thankfully for the Boks, Foley is also struggling a bit with composure

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:47 pm

How is tackling someone by the hair not a yellow card?

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:50 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Mr Fishpaste wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Imagine how good the Boks would be with a little more composure.

Yes, the Boks' "in-the-moment" decision making lets them down too often...

Another one right there where if they kept the ball, they may have scored. No need to force the pass all the time. Composure is killing them out there.

...and again...

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:51 pm

eirebilly wrote:How is tackling someone by the hair not a yellow card?

...and then dragging him by the hair for some distance on the ground...

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:52 pm

Mr Fishpaste wrote:
eirebilly wrote:How is tackling someone by the hair not a yellow card?

...and then dragging him by the hair for some distance on the ground...

Unbelievable, I saw chunks of hair flying about. Terrible decision not to review and YC Folau.

by **Biltong** Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:55 pm

Boks remain Poopie, Folau very fortunate

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:02 pm

too many passes going behind the recipient...too many 'forced offloads' in contact...going wide too early...

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:04 pm

Would not say the Boks are poopie Biltong, poopie with composure maybe but they are opening the Aussies up and getting into very good positions.

by eirebilly Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:18 pm

This is actually a very good game. The Boks will be kicking themselves if they let this slip.

by Gwlad Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:23 pm

The Aussies will come good, can't lose to this shower.

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:31 pm

Kriel seems to have a knack for waiting too long to offload and then offloading anyway to the nearest Aussie

by **Biltong** Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:34 pm

Kriel reminds me of Spies, looks like a great athlete, but not a great rugby player

by Mr Fishpaste Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:35 pm

Aimless kick from Coetzee, and ruining counter-attacking opportunity in the process.

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Day & Date	Match	Venue	Match Official	Kick Off (Local)
Week One
Saturday 19-Aug-17	Australia v New Zealand	ANZ Stadium, Sydney	Jerome Garces (FFR)	20:00
Saturday 19-Aug-17	South Africa v Argentina	Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth	Romain Poite (FFR)	17.05
Week Two
Saturday 26-Aug-17	New Zealand v Australia	Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin	Wayne Barnes (RFU)	19.35
Saturday 26-Aug-17	Argentina v South Africa	Estadio Padre Ernesto Marlearena, Salta	Pascal Gauzere (FFR)	16.40
Week Three
Saturday 09-Sep-17	Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth	Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth	Angus Gardner (ARU)	19.35
Saturday 09-Sep-17	Australia v South Africa	NIB Stadium, Perth	Glen Jackson (NZR)	18.00
Week Four
Saturday 16-Sep-17	New Zealand v South Africa	QBE Stadium, Albany	Nigel Owens (WRU)	19.30
Saturday 16-Sep-17	Australia v Argentina	Nib Stadium, Perth	John Lacey (IRFU)	20:00
Week Five
Saturday 30-Sep-17	South Africa v Australia	Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein	Ben O’Keeffe (NZR)	17.05
Saturday 30-Sep-17	Argentina v New Zealand	Estadio Velez Sarsfield, Buenos Aires	Jaco Peyper (SARU)	19.30
Week Six
Saturday 07-Oct-17	South Africa v New Zealand	Newlands, Cape Town	Jerome Garces (FFR)	17.05
Saturday 07-Oct-17	Argentina v Australia	Estadio Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza	Mathieu Raynal (FFR)	19.30
Extra Bledisloe Cup
Saturday 21-Oct-17	Australia v New Zealand	Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane	Wayne Barnes (RFU)	19.00